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Old 05-04-2005, 03:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by capnkt

I am diplexing the signal currently. I probably could run the antenna direct from the mast to the tuner bypassing the sat feed. Do you think this makes that much of a difference?


Hi Kevin,

Obviously if you're getting consistently good reception with your house mounting, I would leave well enough alone. This is particularly true if you continue to get CBS. I wouldn't see the point of bothering with your neighbor's mast.

The reason I asked about diplexers is because some diplexers have Insertion Losses of about 7 dB. So I figure if you've got one at each end of a coax run your total loss might be 14 dB. I read that 150 feet of coax produces a 20 dB loss, so your 125 foot run should cause a loss of about 17 dB. For a total loss of 31 dB. For this diplexer scenario I guess you would be running coax from your neighbor's mast to your dish where the diplexer is located. If when you hook your antenna to the 30 ft mast you don't have any problems, great. Otherwise a straight coax run might gain you 14 dB of signal on that 125 foot run.

An other option if you are diplexing the long run is to use an in-line amplifier. These have a gain of 20 dB. They even have an amplifier with a diplexer built into it. It says its for dual LNB installations, so I'm not sure whether it would work for a triple LNB installation.

Larry
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Old 05-04-2005, 10:47 PM
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Hi everyone, I'm moving to the Tampa area within a couple of weeks and I'm trying to choose my HD solution. Bright House is rather expensive for my taste since I would have to get digital cable (which I wouldn't watch) to get the local HD channels so I'm thinking OTA. I will probably be living in South Tampa between Kennedy and the AFB, hopefully in a house rather than an apartment. I will be renting though, so I'll have to live with pole envy and use an indoor or maybe porch-mounted antenna. My question is, I'm thinking of getting a Winegard MS-2000 omnidirectional amplified antenna. Should this get me the reception I need? Is it overkill? I was going to post the output from antennaweb.org but the formatting makes me cry, so just plug in zip code 33629. Thanks for the help.
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Old 05-08-2005, 05:23 PM
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Help in south Sarasota? Just added Winegard 2200 amplified Off air antenna to Direct TV hd unit. Has a rotor, but despite adjustments I still get pixelization several times a show on 8 or 13 and will not get 10 at all. When I check signal strength for 8 or 13 it stays about 79-88 and about 30 or 40 for 10 which otherwise won't register.
Any suggestion. I know --higher I guess, but I don't know why a professional installer would not get this right.

Tony B
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Old 05-08-2005, 05:54 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by wabkab
Help in south Sarasota? Just added Winegard 2200 amplified Off air antenna to Direct TV hd unit. Has a rotor, but despite adjustments I still get pixelization several times a show on 8 or 13 and will not get 10 at all. When I check signal strength for 8 or 13 it stays about 79-88 and about 30 or 40 for 10 which otherwise won't register.
Any suggestion. I know --higher I guess, but I don't know why a professional installer would not get this right.

How high are you? Any obstructions? Your signal reports are consistent with mine. I have same antenna, up about 17 feet. You may have best signal attainable.

Ron
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:16 PM
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I'm about 20 feet high and my neighbors roof probably is the limiting factor. The installer had some other options, but didn't suggest any. Is this pixelization a couple a times every 5 minutes or so as good as it gets?

Tony B
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Old 05-08-2005, 06:39 PM
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I'm off Clark Road a 1/2 mile East of the trail, and I don't even get channel 8! Channels 8-1, 8-2, 8-3 show up when I scan, but they don't come in at all. I do receive 10 without any pixelization (word ?).

I get NBC out of Ft. Myers with an occasional pixelization, but I'm more interested in CBS so I'm not touching it.

It is certainly a frustrating exercise, but worth it in the end. From what I understand higher is definitely better!

Good Luck

Kevin
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:19 PM
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Strange I get 8,13,44,3,and others but not 10 when you kind of are getting the opposite. I'm at the south end of Turtle Rock not far from your position. What kind of antenna do you have capnkt? I've heard from one near me with an in attic antenna with an amp that get 10, 8, basically all the locals from Tampa and no pixelization issues. I've got a call in for my installer, maybe he'll have some ideas. He wasn't surprised at all about me not getting 10 when he set it up.

Tony B
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Old 05-08-2005, 08:22 PM
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Maybe I'm expecting too much. I was under the impression that the off air signals were golden once locked in.

Tony B
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Old 05-14-2005, 07:04 AM
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I'm moving to Hillsborough County (Lithia) in a development called Fishhawk Ranch from New Jersey. Can someone let me know if there are any sweet packages that include HD/VoIP/Internet ? I have it up here for a combined bill of $100. And I'm looking for something like that down there. I'm also open to Directv but I don't want to incurr the expense of buying an HD box.

Think before you speak....
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Old 05-21-2005, 11:20 PM
 
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If anyone cares, Brighthouse apparently added PPV HD InDemand to the system at Midnight on channel 750.

Selection is identical to Dish HD PPV - VERY LIMITED - essentially only Dreamworks Movies and IMAX stuff at this point.

Dish also has also had small independent films over the last 8 months - ie Passion Of The Christ, Fahrenheit 911 and Ghost in the Shell 2 - so Brighthouse most likely will too.

I have no idea about quality, resolution or how long you can view a film for as it is IN DEMAND. It's clearly not the selection that DirecTV HD PPV has at this time, but its a good start - and the fact that it is IN DEMAND instead of a set schedule makes it more versatile.

They have it priced at $4.99.
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Old 05-30-2005, 04:45 AM
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Any suggestions on how to get Comcast in Sarasota to get us NBC-HD? Who can we whine to? It would make it a lot easier for me to continue being a Comcrap customer if I were able to watch those few NBC shows I watch in HD...

I'll stop ripping my BDs when I can put them in and watch the movie without trailers, warnings, cutesy menus...
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Old 05-30-2005, 09:05 PM
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Did WTSP-DT go off the air? I went from around a 60-65% signal here in Lee County to 0%

I watched WTSP 10.1 for almost 2 hours tonight without much issue, but it just died there. I am using rabbit ears and a DISH 811.

CapeFish

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Old 05-31-2005, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapeFish View Post

Did WTSP-DT go off the air? I went from around a 60-65% signal here in Lee County to 0%

I watched WTSP 10.1 for almost 2 hours tonight without much issue, but it just died there. I am using rabbit ears and a DISH 811.

In Cape Coral you're lucky to have gotten any signal on 10.1, particularly with rabbit ears. Here in Sarasota their reception is sporadic, with their antenna being about 70 miles away.

Ron
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Old 05-31-2005, 04:21 AM
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Well their analog signal comes in semi-well during the day and night so since the digital is supposed to replicate that I was expecting a similar result.

CapeFish

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Old 06-07-2005, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wabkab View Post

Maybe I'm expecting too much. I was under the impression that the off air signals were golden once locked in.


You may have already figured this out, but 10-1 is at a different transmitter location, in fact almost in the opposite direction of the other Tampa DTV stations. It is a UHF channel that is actually at 24-1 and then remapped to 10-1. 8-1 and 13-1 are VHF and all of the others are UHF. I am able to receive all of the above with two antennas coupled with a jointenna in my attic from St. Petersburg.
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Old 06-07-2005, 06:29 PM
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Have any of you guys dumped D* to go with BHN? I've put up with the compressed HD for a long time, but the increased cost for the HD-NFL Sunday ticket was the straw that broke the camels back. If you have had D* and BHN-HD at the same time, a couple of questions:

1) How is the BHN HD channel's picture quality? Full bandwidth?

2) How are the HD cable boxes user interface/ speed?

3) How is the HD PVR as implemented with BHN? Buggy?

4) Was there anything you missed once you left D* other than PPV-HD or NFL-ST?



I am most interested in the PQ of BHN. I may just have them install the cable and then compare directly with D*. I know D* just sent up a bunch of sats, but I don't need HD locals and that seems to be D*'s primary focus.

Thanks,

Mike
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Old 06-07-2005, 08:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike__P View Post

You may have already figured this out, but 10-1 is at a different transmitter location, in fact almost in the opposite direction of the other Tampa DTV stations.


When you are in Ft. Myers (Lee County) the direction difference between New Port Richie and Riverside is miniscule.

When in St. Petersburg in the metro, you are correct.
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Old 06-07-2005, 09:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mike__P View Post

If you have had D* and BHN-HD at the same time, a couple of questions:

1) How is the BHN HD channel's picture quality? Full bandwidth?
2) How are the HD cable boxes user interface/ speed?
3) How is the HD PVR as implemented with BHN? Buggy?
4) Was there anything you missed once you left D* other than PPV-HD or NFL-ST?


1) PQ is better than D*on HBO, HDNET, DISCOVERYHD, ESPNHD and SHO. They also have INHD1/2 and TNT-HD that D* does not. OTA HD Pictures are being recompressed by BHN and look far worse than OTA.

2) BHN uses the Pace Box (Actually not that bad) and Scientific Atlanta. In a word, the SA boxes are inferior to the Motorola boxes, but no one uses them in Tampa-St. Pete. The SA boxes do not have great pictures compared to Motorola - or even the Pace Box for that matter. The picture on BHN looks much better with a cablecard.

3) The 8300s are much better than the older models, but it's not as intuitive as TIVO. They continue to make improvements, but BHN is slow to update firmware.

4) Haven't left D* yet.
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Old 06-07-2005, 09:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capnkt View Post

I'm off Clark Road a 1/2 mile East of the trail, and I don't even get channel 8! Channels 8-1, 8-2, 8-3 show up when I scan, but they don't come in at all. I do receive 10 without any pixelization (word ?).

I get NBC out of Ft. Myers with an occasional pixelization, but I'm more interested in CBS so I'm not touching it.

It is certainly a frustrating exercise, but worth it in the end. From what I understand higher is definitely better!

Good Luck

Kevin


Channel 8 is actually DTV on 7 - one of the few in America to stay on the Low VHF side. In a word, those frequencies are a nightmare for DTV as you are finding out.

Most every owner that thought they would save money staying in the Low VHF band (less transmitter power = less electricity) is now regretting it and looking for possible changes in frequencies.
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Old 06-07-2005, 09:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ron Tobin View Post

And yes, you should get WFLA, and well as WWSB, although they are running at low power. Also look for 38.

Lots of luck.

I tried recorded Saving Private Ryan last November from 4 miles due south of the WWSB transmitter (the direction in which their low power signal is aimed).

No go.

They seem to serve mostly farmland with their signal.

I got a better signal from the ABC affilate in Ft. Myers/Naples.
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Old 06-07-2005, 09:41 PM
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I've just noticed in the past couple of weeks that 38-1 (WB affiliate, WTTA I think) has been on almost every time I've checked. They have been capable of full power HD since shortly after the first of the year, from what I understand, but were told by Sinclair corporate not to go full power. I found the station a few times since the first of the year, but it was always off more than on. Now I've only found it "off" once in the last 2 weeks, and checked and found it "on" probably a dozen times, all different times of day and night, and different days of the week. Hopefully that is a good sign. I live in Lutz (north Tampa), and get good signals from everything else (HDTiVo and HD-TL).

On another note, I'm glad to see some activity in this thread. The other site which was supposed to be a great thing (for someone) seems to get very little traffic. The last post on the WB story (see above) was almost 3 weeks ago, and there was no update.

Hal
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Old 06-07-2005, 10:20 PM
 
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I noticed the opposite.

They went full power first of year and were on most of time, but seemed to be off (or low power - same deal for me) for the entire April/May Ratings Sweep (I guess trying to get ratings on their main SD channel).

I noticed they came back on when the ratings were over.

Stupid programming in my mind.

Other stations, like ABC-28, have gone out of their way to put out a HD signal, even if ratings are jeapordized on their main channel. For example, 28 ran the ABC Primetime HDTV Schedule tonight when their SD channel did a Stanley Cup Special.

They also showed Harry Potter on Saturday Night during the sweeps starting at 7pm on the HDTV channel even though they tape delayed it until 8pm on the SD channel.

AFAIK, none of the local stations have the ability to capture and delay HD programming from the networks at this point.
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Old 06-07-2005, 11:02 PM
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I agree with you; what I was noting was that for some time (since around the first of the year, when they supposedly got everything running) I hadn't seen a signal (like you, when they aren't full power I can't receive them). Since they've been on so many times that I've checked them lately I'm assuming that they are either going permanenty to full power or are doing some kind of extended testing (seems unlikely).

Several years ago they had a full power signal, but I don't believe it was broadcasting HD. Then there equipment went out, or something, and for a long time I could get nothing. Somewhere around the first of the year (maybe Feb or March, I forget now) I saw a signal from time to time.

I wasn't implying that they could do anything with HD other than pass thru what the network sends out. A few of my Wife's shows (Gilmore Girls, for one) is in HD, and despite their annoying voices I could stomach it a little better if we received it in HD (I note that they are now done for the season; how ironic).

Has anyone heard any news regarding any of the local stations plans for doing any HD locally? I haven't heard anything at all along those lines.

Hal
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Old 06-08-2005, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

1) PQ is better than D*on HBO, HDNET, DISCOVERYHD, ESPNHD and SHO. They also have INHD1/2 and TNT-HD that D* does not. OTA HD Pictures are being recompressed by BHN and look far worse than OTA.

2) BHN uses the Pace Box (Actually not that bad) and Scientific Atlanta. In a word, the SA boxes are inferior to the Motorola boxes, but no one uses them in Tampa-St. Pete. The SA boxes do not have great pictures compared to Motorola - or even the Pace Box for that matter. The picture on BHN looks much better with a cablecard.

3) The 8300s are much better than the older models, but it's not as intuitive as TIVO. They continue to make improvements, but BHN is slow to update firmware.

4) Haven't left D* yet.


Thanks for the insight.

RE #1 PQ, that may make more sense to me as I mostly watch the premium Networks vs. locals, although it is disappointing to find out that the locals are compressed. I would keep my antenna active, so not much of an issue except for guide information and integration.

RE #2 I would more than likely go with the HD-PVR. How does the 8300's user interface compare to the D* non-tivo HD receivers? I have a Samsung SIR160 and really enjoy the speed of the menus. I used to have a DTC-100 and that was painfully slow. Also, am I correct in assuming that channels cannot be removed from the 8300's guide? I do like the profile feature of D*, I block out all of the channels that are not appropriate for my small children.
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Old 06-08-2005, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVFanAtic View Post

The picture on BHN looks much better with a cablecard.

Do you have any tips for getting cable card to work with BHN? I know someone who is trying to have BHN install one in a new Panasonic Plasma. On BHN's first attempt they were not successful, and from all indications, the installer did not know a whole lot about the cablecard.
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Old 06-08-2005, 07:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike__P View Post

RE #2 I would more than likely go with the HD-PVR. How does the 8300's user interface compare to the D* non-tivo HD receivers? I have a Samsung SIR160 and really enjoy the speed of the menus. I used to have a DTC-100 and that was painfully slow. Also, am I correct in assuming that channels cannot be removed from the 8300's guide? I do like the profile feature of D*, I block out all of the channels that are not appropriate for my small children.

I have not played with the 8300 - only going by other users reports.

I have an old DTC-100 for D* that, even though it picks up all the HD Channels, I really only use for watching the West Coast HDTV feeds of ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC as well as UniversalHD as I have E* and BHN with better quality on the other HD channels. Thus I really cannot tell you about the speed of the other boxes. I simply haven't bothered to upgrade as it's a rarely used box.
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Old 06-08-2005, 07:20 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma View Post

I agree with you; what I was noting was that for some time (since around the first of the year, when they supposedly got everything running) I hadn't seen a signal (like you, when they aren't full power I can't receive them). Since they've been on so many times that I've checked them lately I'm assuming that they are either going permanenty to full power or are doing some kind of extended testing (seems unlikely).

Several years ago they had a full power signal, but I don't believe it was broadcasting HD. Then there equipment went out, or something, and for a long time I could get nothing. Somewhere around the first of the year (maybe Feb or March, I forget now) I saw a signal from time to time.

I wasn't implying that they could do anything with HD other than pass thru what the network sends out. A few of my Wife's shows (Gilmore Girls, for one) is in HD, and despite their annoying voices I could stomach it a little better if we received it in HD (I note that they are now done for the season; how ironic).

Has anyone heard any news regarding any of the local stations plans for doing any HD locally? I haven't heard anything at all along those lines.

Again, to the best of my knowledge, no local station can even capture and playback HD Programming, so local HD is a good ways off.

Even on a network level, I find it interesting watching KABC-DT out of Los Angeles with their Air7HD Helicopter as they are only able to show live pictures and during taped replay of scenes shot from it, they are only in SD.

Thus, here is a Network O&O with one of 2 HD Copters in the nation and they cannot even tape it in HD for delayed playback.

I venture to say HDTV local produced programming is a way off for Tampa.

The only positive sign I see is that the new President of Gannett TV (owners of Channel 10) is from KUSA in Denver, where they are one of 7 stations doing a HD Newscast. Gannett also does one at WUSA in DC. We will see how much of a priority it is for them - which could spur the other companies. However, Channel 10 is #4 behind WEDU/WFTS/WTVT - and just slightly ahead of WFLA which is the worse - in terms of HD screw ups - so they have a long way to improve just passing Network HD without botching it up.

Edit: Actually WTSP should fall at #6 and WFLA #7 in order of attention to HDTV detail and lack of screw ups. UPN44 and WB38 have far less screwups than either of them - but then again they have less HDTV content as well. For obvious reasons, PAX 66, 50, 32, 22 and 16 don't screw up as they don't have real HiDef content so they are not a part of the equation.

Also, the more I think of the other subject, I am sure Sinclair pulled the power on 38 for the ratings to try to push people to their SD channel for Neilsen credit in the May Sweeps.
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Old 06-08-2005, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike__P View Post

You may have already figured this out, but 10-1 is at a different transmitter location, in fact almost in the opposite direction of the other Tampa DTV stations. It is a UHF channel that is actually at 24-1 and then remapped to 10-1. 8-1 and 13-1 are VHF and all of the others are UHF. I am able to receive all of the above with two antennas coupled with a jointenna in my attic from St. Petersburg.

Hi Mike,

Am I correct that WTSP (CBS) used to transmit from the Holiday transmitter which is 70-80 miles from Sarasota?

Where is the new transmitter location?

That might account for the fact that Kevin (capnkt), who is in Sarasota, can now receive this channel.

Thanks.

Larry
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Old 06-08-2005, 09:31 AM
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Hi Mike,

Am I correct that WTSP (CBS) used to transmit from the Holiday transmitter which is 70-80 miles from Sarasota?

Where is the new transmitter location?

That might account for the fact that Kevin (capnkt), who is in Sarasota, can now receive this channel.

Thanks.

Larry


Huh??? According to WTSP's web site, their transmitter is still in Holiday. That would be a very expensive proposition to move a transmitter site. But stranger things have been known to happen.

Ron
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Old 06-08-2005, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Mike,

Am I correct that WTSP (CBS) used to transmit from the Holiday transmitter which is 70-80 miles from Sarasota?

Where is the new transmitter location?

That might account for the fact that Kevin (capnkt), who is in Sarasota, can now receive this channel.

Thanks.

Larry

I don't have any evidence that WTSP has done anything with regard to moving their transmitter. In fact, my attic setup still receives them pointing to the same location that it always has. However I am not an expert at this or a person in the "know".

Based on reading forums like these, I have come to understand that the Tampa Bay market has two different transmission locations for the DTV stations. Most all of the Tampa DTV stations are broadcast from Riverview and WTSP is from Holiday. I think WMOR may also be at a different site, but I receive that as well from my current location.
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