Youngstown, OH - HDTV - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1955 Old 10-01-2006, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TV21CHIEF View Post

I live 6 air miles away, get it no problem with a broken outdoor antenna pointing east. 98 - 0 sounds like a multipath issue. What are you using for an antenna?

Radio Shack 15-2187 Amplified Antenna Mounted on th e roof. Had same problem with RCA rabbit ears.

Fred
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post #632 of 1955 Old 10-01-2006, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by TV21CHIEF View Post

I live 6 air miles away, get it no problem with a broken outdoor antenna pointing east. 98 - 0 sounds like a multipath issue. What are you using for an antenna?

Radio Shack 15-2187 Amplified Antenna Mounted on the roof. Had same problem with RCA rabbit ears.

Fred
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post #633 of 1955 Old 10-01-2006, 07:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fmcomputer View Post

Radio Shack 15-2187 Amplified Antenna Mounted on the roof. Had same problem with RCA rabbit ears.

Fred

Amplifiers will overdrive the tuner for stations in close. I'm surprised you can get WKBN-DT with all the power they're putting out.
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post #634 of 1955 Old 10-02-2006, 02:52 PM
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I hate amplifiers. All they do is amplify noise and overload on strong signals - even on channels you don't want to watch. Of course I live in the Cleveland antenna farm, YMMV the farther out you go. I'm sure that an amplifier is a necessity in places like Ashtablua County, but not in the areas closer to the transmitters.
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post #635 of 1955 Old 10-02-2006, 02:55 PM
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He may have an amplifier to pick up Cleveland or Pittsburgh stations. Six miles away though is totally unnecessary.
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post #636 of 1955 Old 10-02-2006, 03:10 PM
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Here in Akron, I've been playing around with my antenna for a while, and I can say that the only Youngstown channel that I can get 24/7 is 21 analog (except during the recent DT construction there). I don't understand why this would be the case, and I cannot get WKBN-DT when I'm well within their coverage map. Any ideas why this could be. I can get a blip of signal that isn't enough to lock onto. I've tried many antenna locations. I use a silver sensor with amplifier. I would like to watch WKBN-DT, but an outdoor antenna is out of the question.
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post #637 of 1955 Old 10-02-2006, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBlackKnight View Post

It's not likely that we will ever see WYTV-DT in the Cleveland market. They are only licensed for 50 kW. For comparison, WFMJ-DT has a STA for 200 kW, soon to increase to their full licensed power of 460 kW, and WKBN-DT is pumping out 700 kW.

Is there a particular reason WKBN is so weak and will remain so? Is there another channel 33/36 that they would interfere with?
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post #638 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by theshark8777 View Post

I live in Newton Falls as well, and there are times I can pick up WJW-DT with an indoor antenna. I have to move my antenna to a window facing the way of the signal however. A outdoor antenna would probably work better.

As for WYFX-LP channel 62, good luck. That signal is so weak, I can only pick up a fuzzy picture. I actually pick up WJW 8 from Cleveland with a picture as good as the 62 signal.

Has anyone in America ever gotten a true "clear" analog picture from an -LP or -CA station? I know people within 1000 feet of an LP transmitter that get snowy reception.
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post #639 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by TV21CHIEF View Post

Your statement is incorrect regarding channel 27 in that:
WKBN-DT channel 27.1 will be on in the next couple of weeks with CBS HD programs.
WKBN-DT channel 27.2 will be on the air in the next couple of weeks with Fox SD programs.

Your statement "might be" correct on Fox low power channels 17/62 because:
In 2009, channel 62 will be out of the "core" channels and therefore will go away permanently. There is another Cleveland station that already has dibs on channel 17 in 2009. WKYC channel 3 is considering Ch 17 for their final digital resting place. So, if Fox still wants to have an OTA presence in Y-town, WKBN will have to find another open channel(s) and move.

Channel 67, WOAC in Canton was recently sold. Since it won't become a network affilliate and we sure as hell don't need another "shop at home" channel, why not petition the FCC to reallocate WOAC-67 and it's digital counterpart (that I can't recall at the moment) to Youngstown to become a full-power Fox?
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post #640 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by theshark8777 View Post

I read that 55 is going to be the new CW affiliate in Cleveland. (channel 55 is one of the highest rated WB stations in the country, who would have thought?) I guess 43 is going back independant?

WUAB is going to be MyNetworkTV...which I think will be about as heavily-watched as WDLI (TBN) in Canton...
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post #641 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Has anyone in America ever gotten a true "clear" analog picture from an -LP or -CA station? I know people within 1000 feet of an LP transmitter that get snowy reception.

Are you referring to WAKN-LP 11, which I don't think is on-the-air at the moment. They used to broadcast static, seriously. I guess some LP stations are just on the air to strictly make money and not entertain (e.g. shopping) and they don't even know the correct way of broadcasting, or maybe their equipment was purchased from a garage sale. Don't ask me the real reason.

Forgetting about that, I can get W35AX good, sometimes almost perfect, even though I'm outside their FCC estimated coverage area. If this is the case, then I should be able to get the Youngstown digitals when I'm well within the FCC coverage estimate. After all, I can get 21 analog no problem. That is why I believe that the FCC's estimates for digitals are highly over-estimated.
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post #642 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Has anyone in America ever gotten a true "clear" analog picture from an -LP or -CA station? I know people within 1000 feet of an LP transmitter that get snowy reception.

I can see the tower that has every Cleveland LP station with the exception of ch 32 from my back window (it's WBNX's tower btw).

I can get W35AX ok, but I have to work at it to get a clear picture.
I can get WCDN-LP 53 (Daystar) with just a little bit of snow.
Then there is WXOX_LP ch 65 which currently carries The Home Shopping Channel (the original). It's so snowy I don't know why they even bother to transmit.
I see they have a CP for ch 44.
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post #643 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Channel 67, WOAC in Canton was recently sold. Since it won't become a network affilliate and we sure as hell don't need another "shop at home" channel, why not petition the FCC to reallocate WOAC-67 and it's digital counterpart (that I can't recall at the moment) to Youngstown to become a full-power Fox?

The FCC does not have the right to dictate what is broadcast on a station, they only dictate that there has to be a percentage of "E/I" programming (Educational and/or public interest) plus they have the obscenity ban. Other than that, it the owners of the station that determines what is broadcast.

In the case of ch 67 (which is digital on ch 47) the new owners are "muticultural". This the the first TV station for this company who owns a string of radio stations that broadcast in multiple languages. The programming on the Multicutural radio stations are "brokered" (as is WERE 1300 AM). So what you'll get is anybody's guess.

For a station to move to another DMA, the owners have to want to do this and the FCC approve the move. A move from Canton to Youngstown is not a big deal, after all WNEO is licensed to Alliance which is also in Stark county (Cleveland DMA), with transmitters in Salem, which is in the Youngstown DMA county of Columbianna.

BTW: Your quote from TV21 CHIEF is quite old. WKBN-DT has been OTA for almost a year.
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post #644 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

I can see the tower that has every Cleveland LP station with the exception of ch 32 from my back window (it's WBNX's tower btw).

I can get W35AX ok, but I have to work at it to get a clear picture.
I can get WCDN-LP 53 (Daystar) with just a little bit of snow.
Then there is WXOX_LP ch 65 which currently carries The Home Shopping Channel (the original). It's so snowy I don't know why they even bother to transmit.
I see they have a CP for ch 44.

How far are you actually from the tower?
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post #645 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael P 2341 View Post

The FCC does not have the right to dictate what is broadcast on a station, they only dictate that there has to be a percentage of "E/I" programming (Educational and/or public interest) plus they have the obscenity ban. Other than that, it the owners of the station that determines what is broadcast.

In the case of ch 67 (which is digital on ch 47) the new owners are "muticultural". This the the first TV station for this company who owns a string of radio stations that broadcast in multiple languages. The programming on the Multicutural radio stations are "brokered" (as is WERE 1300 AM). So what you'll get is anybody's guess.

For a station to move to another DMA, the owners have to want to do this and the FCC approve the move. A move from Canton to Youngstown is not a big deal, after all WNEO is licensed to Alliance which is also in Stark county (Cleveland DMA), with transmitters in Salem, which is in the Youngstown DMA county of Columbianna.

BTW: Your quote from TV21 CHIEF is quite old. WKBN-DT has been OTA for almost a year.

WEAO is licensed to Alliance, and the transmitter is near Salem but actually phsyically in Mahoning county but has a Salem zipcode. This is very common in Mahoning county be in one town but has someone's zip code, phone number, police and fire protection, etc. For WOAC to change DMA's that would be nice but could they make the money to make it profitable? Unless one person "owns" the station and someone like gocom operates or runs the station, it could be an up hill battle. As for WERE, there may be a good shot that ESPN Cleveland gets some airtime overnites since the new home of ESPN radio in Cleveland WABQ 1540 is not 24/7 and disney is demanding a 24/7 clearance in Cleveland. WERE now runs talk from co-owned sister urban one in addition to preachers and radio usa.

What is the purpose of W58AM soon to be a ld (low power digital) translator on ch 44? I looked at what the FCC orginally proposed for who gets what frequencies in the 50's and I noticed that Youngstown was orginally given ch 58 as educational? Is the reason why ch 58 repeats 45/49 because they were given the ch for possible full power PBS but decided since ch 45 was free they would just used that instead? Or since Alliance is in the Cleveland DMA the only way to get a signal in Youngstown was to use ch 58 since ch 45 was considered an out of market signal? they claim it is for low lying areas but ch 45 covers the area pretty good.

If ch 58/LD 44 is not really needed, could it be sold and WBCB use it as a local signal since it sets on the WFMJ tower? It would be nice to have some sort of cw on hd even at low power.
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post #646 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 06:32 PM
 
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What is the purpose of W58AM soon to be a ld (low power digital) translator on ch 44? I looked at what the FCC orginally proposed for who gets what frequencies in the 50's and I noticed that Youngstown was orginally given ch 58 as educational? Is the reason why ch 58 repeats 45/49 because they were given the ch for possible full power PBS but decided since ch 45 was free they would just used that instead? Or since Alliance is in the Cleveland DMA the only way to get a signal in Youngstown was to use ch 58 since ch 45 was considered an out of market signal? they claim it is for low lying areas but ch 45 covers the area pretty good.

If ch 58/LD 44 is not really needed, could it be sold and WBCB use it as a local signal since it sets on the WFMJ tower? It would be nice to have some sort of cw on hd even at low power.

Ch 58 is on my tower. It has a very directional cigar shaped pattern that shoots down the Mahoning river valley to the north west between Youngstown City and I-680. It is for those low lying areas and no, those people can't get 45 or 49.
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post #647 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Has anyone in America ever gotten a true "clear" analog picture from an -LP or -CA station? I know people within 1000 feet of an LP transmitter that get snowy reception.

Here in the west side of Youngstown :

WYFX-LP: daytime good luck it is very hard to get a signal for any peroid of time nitetime is a little better but ch 61 WQHS over powers it and when there is e-skip and the conditions are right, it for some odd reason gets over powered by WWJ-TV (CBS owned) in Detroit. Also when the conditions are right WOGF 104.3-FM (keymarket owned country) out of Burgestown-East Lverpool gets overpowered by WOMC (CBS owned oldies) out of Detroit.

WFXI-CA: no way

W29CO: cornerstone repeater of WPCB out of Pittsburgh no way

W58AM: repeater of WNEO/WEAO when it was on it was a lot better than WYFX-62. There was snow but it was watchable and it was a consistant signal.

WPCP-LP: repeater of WBGN in Pittsburgh (actually in the Pittsburgh DMA but listed sometimes as a Youngstown station) no way.

W52CX: (TBN repeater of WDLI/soon to be LD ch 32) When I use my Philips Magnavox amplified indoor antenna with the gain turned all the way up I can pick it it up with some snow and static and it is stronger than WYFX.
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post #648 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 06:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mavtv View Post

Here in the west side of Youngstown :

WYFX-LP: daytime good luck it is very hard to get a signal for any peroid of time nitetime is a little better but ch 61 WQHS over powers it and when there is e-skip and the conditions are right, it for some odd reason gets over powered by WWJ-TV (CBS owned) in Detroit. Also when the conditions are right WOGF 104.3-FM (keymarket owned country) out of Burgestown-East Lverpool gets overpowered by WOMC (CBS owned oldies) out of Detroit.

WFXI-CA: no way

W29CO: cornerstone repeater of WPCB out of Pittsburgh no way

W58AM: repeater of WNEO/WEAO when it was on it was a lot better than WYFX-62. There was snow but it was watchable and it was a consistant signal.

WPCP-LP: repeater of WBGN in Pittsburgh (actually in the Pittsburgh DMA but listed sometimes as a Youngstown station) no way.

W52CX: (TBN repeater of WDLI/soon to be LD ch 32) When I use my Philips Magnavox amplified indoor antenna with the gain turned all the way up I can pick it it up with some snow and static and it is stronger than WYFX.

And THAT pretty much sums up available channels in NE Ohio. They have to be so directional and so low in power so they don't interfere they're practically worthless.
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post #649 of 1955 Old 10-03-2006, 07:49 PM
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Here's a question-

Why is it that on antennaweb and the FCC website, that translator stations' cities of license have "etc." after them?

I queried W58AM and it said the city of license was "Youngstown, Etc." instead of just Youngstown. Similar results came from other translators that come up.
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post #650 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 08:44 AM
 
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OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports on analog and digital would be appreciated.
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post #651 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TV21CHIEF View Post

OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports on analog and digital would be appreciated.

I'll check the digital when I get home tonight and give a report. I know you said the analog was up a few days ago. Analog is exactly the same for me as it was before, just a tad snowy but not that bad. There's no telling if I'll get the digital or not. There's just so many factors when it comes to determining reception.
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post #652 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TV21CHIEF View Post

OK, I'm powered up. Reception reports on analog and digital would be appreciated.

The analog after some fine tuning with an antenna looks good but usually i don't have to fine tune as much.
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post #653 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 11:11 AM
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TV21Chief,

I will check my digital reception later. I don't expect any problems since I received WFMJ/DT pretty easily here in New Wilmington, PA since it fired up.

It has been the one where moving a cruddy indoor amplified RCA antenna is not really necessary for me.

Just to change the subject for a moment:

I think this issue has been discussed, but I would like to know if there is anything I can do to speed things up.

On my TVGUIDE interface on my Sony HX-900 DVD Recorder, the damn tvguide info try's to list WPMY/Burgh MYTV as my channel 17 on my cable channel lineup.

This is a serious nuisance because I get CBWB/YTown on channel 17(old WB/UPN mergered channel) on my cable lineup(Time Warner now, out of Sharon, PA. Used to be Adelphia), and I get all the wrong channel info.

It really does suck! So in order to get AT LEAST the primetime lineup correct, I eliminate WPMY and use WBNX(WB/UPN) out of Akron. Like I said, this helps with the primetime lineup, but everything else during the day/night is incorrect.

Just the other day I got a Toshiba RS-TX20 DVD recorder with a 120GB TIVO HDD for a STEAL($101 and change out the door).

After uploading the correct cable channel lineup from TIVO for my area, EVEN THEY HAVE WPMY/Burgh listed on channel 17 for my cable lineup, and there is no way for me to change it/fix it!!

Such a pain in the ass!! When do they update these damn things? To let you know, CBWB has NEVER appeared correctly on either the TVGuide or TIVO lineup I have ever received. It is like it does not exist in their minds.

It would be nice if that was corrected somehow.
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post #654 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 11:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

TV21Chief,

I will check my digital reception later. I don't expect any problems since I received WFMJ/DT pretty easily here in New Wilmington, PA since it fired up.

It has been the one where moving a cruddy indoor amplified RCA antenna is not really necessary for me.

Just to change the subject for a moment:

I think this issue has been discussed, but I would like to know if there is anything I can do to speed things up.

On my TVGUIDE interface on my Sony HX-900 DVD Recorder, the damn tvguide info try's to list WPMY/Burgh MYTV as my channel 17 on my cable channel lineup.

This is a serious nuisance because I get CBWB/YTown on channel 17(old WB/UPN mergered channel) on my cable lineup(Time Warner now, out of Sharon, PA. Used to be Adelphia), and I get all the wrong channel info.

It really does suck! So in order to get AT LEAST the primetime lineup correct, I eliminate WPMY and use WBNX(WB/UPN) out of Akron. Like I said, this helps with the primetime lineup, but everything else during the day/night is incorrect.

Just the other day I got a Toshiba RS-TX20 DVD recorder with a 120GB TIVO HDD for a STEAL($101 and change out the door).

After uploading the correct cable channel lineup from TIVO for my area, EVEN THEY HAVE WPMY/Burgh listed on channel 17 for my cable lineup, and there is no way for me to change it/fix it!!

Such a pain in the ass!! When do they update these damn things? To let you know, CBWB has NEVER appeared correctly on either the TVGuide or TIVO lineup I have ever received. It is like it does not exist in their minds.

It would be nice if that was corrected somehow.

I'll forward this to the people here that deal with the listing services, but from what I know it's all zipcode dependent. Your zipcode puts you in the Pittsburgh DMA so you get Pittsburgh listings. If you PM your zipcode, that might help.
And, who's your cable company?
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post #655 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STEELERSRULE View Post

TV21Chief,

I will check my digital reception later. I don't expect any problems since I received WFMJ/DT pretty easily here in New Wilmington, PA since it fired up.

It has been the one where moving a cruddy indoor amplified RCA antenna is not really necessary for me.

Just to change the subject for a moment:

I think this issue has been discussed, but I would like to know if there is anything I can do to speed things up.

On my TVGUIDE interface on my Sony HX-900 DVD Recorder, the damn tvguide info try's to list WPMY/Burgh MYTV as my channel 17 on my cable channel lineup.

This is a serious nuisance because I get CBWB/YTown on channel 17(old WB/UPN mergered channel) on my cable lineup(Time Warner now, out of Sharon, PA. Used to be Adelphia), and I get all the wrong channel info.

It really does suck! So in order to get AT LEAST the primetime lineup correct, I eliminate WPMY and use WBNX(WB/UPN) out of Akron. Like I said, this helps with the primetime lineup, but everything else during the day/night is incorrect.

Just the other day I got a Toshiba RS-TX20 DVD recorder with a 120GB TIVO HDD for a STEAL($101 and change out the door).

After uploading the correct cable channel lineup from TIVO for my area, EVEN THEY HAVE WPMY/Burgh listed on channel 17 for my cable lineup, and there is no way for me to change it/fix it!!

Such a pain in the ass!! When do they update these damn things? To let you know, CBWB has NEVER appeared correctly on either the TVGuide or TIVO lineup I have ever received. It is like it does not exist in their minds.

It would be nice if that was corrected somehow.

The tvguide joke of a channel/onscreen schedule/magazine is a mess everywhere . Here on the armstrong system in Mahoning county they list MY-YTV as being MYTVC (My network TV for Columbus Ohio) and they are incorrect most of the time anyway. They listed WBCB as carring a movie on Sunday but instead WBCB carried Alias and Senifeld due to them preempting for a YSU game. I would either try Yahoo TV (http://tv.yahoo.com/onlinesch/tivo/i...%3Dus_OH34655d) or titan tv (www.titantv.com) since they allow for you to progam your TVIO via their listings.
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post #656 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 01:23 PM
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If you have actual Tivo service, you can email them and they will fix it. I have done this many times, and it usually only takes 1-3 days to correct.

https://customersupport.tivo.com/caseSubmitLineup.asp
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post #657 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

How far are you actually from the tower?

I'm a littile bit over 1 mile from the row of towers on Ridgewood Drive in Parma. WBNX + 3 LPTV is the center tower, with WOIO nearly "touching" it to the right. I aimed my Silver Sensor out my back window and tuned to the LP's last night. WHen aimed dead-on I got static on W35AX (the only LP worth trying for at this time). Aiming a littile bit off to the right gave me a decent picture.

I think that WBNX and or WOIO overpowers the "little ones". When I first moved here ch 55 was receivable over 3 different parts of the UHF dial (surprisingly this was not the case with the rest of the full-power stations to the north: WQHS (at 4 megawatts you'd think 61 would overmod too), WOIO and WKYC.

The closest tower to me is WJW to the WNW at .8 of a mile (haha ch 8 is .8).
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post #658 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 03:26 PM
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Around 6 pm tonight was seeing

WKBN-DT @ 29.5 dB SNR
WFMJ-DT @ 27.5
WYTV-DT @ 18.0

(2 bay amplified batwing antenna)

that extra 126 MHz really eats up the power advantage

Ed...
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post #659 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

Around 6 pm tonight was seeing

WKBN-DT @ 29.5 dB SNR
WFMJ-DT @ 27.5
WYTV-DT @ 18.0

that extra 126 MHz really eats up the power advantage

Ed...

What do these numbers mean?

Anyways, still no picture on WFMJ-DT even after the power increase. I can see a slight increase in the signal meter on my TV, but not strong enough to lock into. I've tried with and without an amplifier, moving the antenna up, down, right, left, 360 degrees, out a window in Youngstown's direction, and whatever... still no picture. Can anyone think of reasons for why this would be? I get 21 analog fine. I would like to watch some Youngstown digitals, but I haven't been successful. It's fustrating
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post #660 of 1955 Old 10-04-2006, 03:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

Around 6 pm tonight was seeing

WKBN-DT @ 29.5 dB SNR
WFMJ-DT @ 27.5
WYTV-DT @ 18.0

(2 bay amplified batwing antenna)

that extra 126 MHz really eats up the power advantage

Ed...

Do you remember what the SNR was before the power increase?

There's no way I'm going to compete with WKBN. I lose in height and power, but I'll take my power bill over their's .
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