Youngstown, OH - HDTV - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1958 Old 12-05-2006, 05:25 PM
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I'm pretty sure the game only appears on stations in the home markets of the two teams in question...in this case, WJW/8 in Cleveland, and KDKA/2 in Pittsburgh.

The game won't be shown on WKBN or any Youngstown market station. To view it in Youngstown, you'll have to watch the NFL Network...or pick up WJW or KDKA.
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post #812 of 1958 Old 12-05-2006, 06:26 PM
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Yeah I haven't noticed it on any guides, but I know it used to be shown in Youngstown. At least old Monday night games.
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post #813 of 1958 Old 12-06-2006, 09:07 AM
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Question for all:

Why has WYTV always been such a weak station compared to WFMJ and WKBN? As a kid, living in Atwater we would use our rotor and turn towards Y-town and get 21 and 27 clear as a bell, 33 was fuzzy as all get out.

To this day 33's analog is much weaker as is their digital. Is it an FCC thing, a budget thing or what?
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post #814 of 1958 Old 12-06-2006, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Question for all:

Why has WYTV always been such a weak station compared to WFMJ and WKBN? As a kid, living in Atwater we would use our rotor and turn towards Y-town and get 21 and 27 clear as a bell, 33 was fuzzy as all get out.

To this day 33's analog is much weaker as is their digital. Is it an FCC thing, a budget thing or what?

I too have never been able to pull in WYTV. My guess is that they're just concerned with serving the Youngstown area only. I don't see how a power increase would interfere with anything else on or near their frequency.
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post #815 of 1958 Old 12-06-2006, 10:13 AM
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Has anyone here successfully used two antennas to simultaneously get Cleveland and Youngstown w/o a rotor? If so, what antennas, and how?
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post #816 of 1958 Old 12-06-2006, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Has anyone here successfully used two antennas to simultaneously get Cleveland and Youngstown w/o a rotor? If so, what antennas, and how?

I can get both Cleveland and Youngstown Digital stations with just one UHF antenna (sans WKYC of course). No rotor. The antenna is pointed right down the middle between Youngstown and Cleveland. From my position, Cleveland towers are at about 11 degrees and Youngstown's are at about 82. I think I settled at about 47 degrees or so.

I can get a pretty good lock on WKBN and WFMJ from Youngstown about 95% of the time (60+ miles) along with a very good lock on 5, 8, 43, 49, 61, 67 from the Cleveland/Akron/Canton market (35 + miles). As a bonus, I usually get WOIO even though they broadcast on VHF channel 10 with some occasional breakups. Not sure why I get the VHF with the UHF antenna, but I'm not complaining. I would like to get a VHF antenna up there so I can get WKYC as well.

I'm using the Radio Shack U-75R UHF antenna.

With your location, you'd obviously have to have them pointed in different directions, but I don't see why you couldn't combine the signals from the two antennas.
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post #817 of 1958 Old 12-06-2006, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Has anyone here successfully used two antennas to

I'm running 3 preamplified antennas into a power
combiner... a 4 bowtie for Cleveland, a 2 bowtie
for Youngstown and an amplified rabbit ear for
WOIO-DT (w/FM trap before the preamp)...
It all works pretty well...

Ed...
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post #818 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wd8kct View Post

I'm running 3 preamplified antennas into a power
combiner... a 4 bowtie for Cleveland, a 2 bowtie
for Youngstown and an amplified rabbit ear for
WOIO-DT (w/FM trap before the preamp)...
It all works pretty well...

Ed...

All indoor antennas??
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post #819 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kramerboy View Post

I can get both Cleveland and Youngstown Digital stations with just one UHF antenna (sans WKYC of course). No rotor. The antenna is pointed right down the middle between Youngstown and Cleveland. From my position, Cleveland towers are at about 11 degrees and Youngstown's are at about 82. I think I settled at about 47 degrees or so.

I can get a pretty good lock on WKBN and WFMJ from Youngstown about 95% of the time (60+ miles) along with a very good lock on 5, 8, 43, 49, 61, 67 from the Cleveland/Akron/Canton market (35 + miles). As a bonus, I usually get WOIO even though they broadcast on VHF channel 10 with some occasional breakups. Not sure why I get the VHF with the UHF antenna, but I'm not complaining. I would like to get a VHF antenna up there so I can get WKYC as well.

I'm using the Radio Shack U-75R UHF antenna.

With your location, you'd obviously have to have them pointed in different directions, but I don't see why you couldn't combine the signals from the two antennas.

Most UHF antennas do OK on VHF in the high band from channel 7 up.
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post #820 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 09:36 AM
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Anyone know if the Steelers/Browns came will be simulcast OTA locally? Freaking NFL Network!!!
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post #821 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 11:12 AM
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Here is the tentative HAAT and power for all DTV stations in NE Ohio after the transition. What I found interesting is that WJW plans to broadcast digitally on channel 8 at a decent 15.7 kW compared to WOIO's anticipated measely 3.5 kW on channel 10. WKYC's plans are to go digitally on channel 17 at a whopping 1000 kW, and WEWS will boost their power up to 1000 kW. There are some improvements to look forward to if you use OTA. I'm wondering what some of the channels will call themselves after their channel number is changed. It would be stupid to say NewsChannel 5 or Channel 3 News if their channels are 15 and 17. The Canadians usually just use their call letters to identify their station. The new channel lineup for Akron/Canton/Cleveland/Youngstown will be...

8 WJW (15.7kW 305m - Parma)
10 WOIO (3.5kW 304m - Parma)
15 WEWS (1000kW 311m - Parma)
17 WKYC (1000kW 296m - Parma)
20 WFMJ (460kW 295m - Youngstown)
23 WVPX (317kW 296m - Akron)
26 WVIZ (100kW 313m - North Royalton)
28 WUAB (200kW 337m - Parma)
30 WBNX (1000kW 334m - Parma)
34 WQHS (525kW 334m - Parma)
36 WYTV (50kW 149m - Youngstown)
39 WDLI (200kW 292m - Akron)
41 WKBN (700kW 418m - Youngstown)
45 WNEO (388kW 223m - Salem)
47 WOAC (1000kW 134m - Brimfield)
50 WEAO (180kW 305m - Copley)

LP and CA applications include WRAP at 40 with 10kW, WCDN & WXOX both applied for 7 with 0.3kW and 0.5 kW respectively (WXOX will most likely not be granted that), W51BI at 51 with 8kW, W52DS applied for 32 and 38, W58AM at 44 with 1.5kW, and still no word on what The Cat 35/29 or WIVM 52 plan on doing.
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post #822 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 11:31 AM
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Is it typical that digital power is lower than analog? Most of the UHF analogs in our market are 5000kW.
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post #823 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

Here is the tentative HAAT and power for all DTV stations in NE Ohio after the transition. What I found interesting is that WJW plans to broadcast digitally on channel 8 at a decent 15.7 kW compared to WOIO's anticipated measely 3.5 kW on channel 10. WKYC's plans are to go digitally on channel 17 at a whopping 1000 kW, and WEWS will boost their power up to 1000 kW. There are some improvements to look forward to if you use OTA. I'm wondering what some of the channels will call themselves after their channel number is changed. It would be stupid to say NewsChannel 5 or Channel 3 News if their channels are 15 and 17. The Canadians usually just use their call letters to identify their station. The new channel lineup for Akron/Canton/Cleveland/Youngstown will be...

8 WJW (15.7kW 305m - Parma)
10 WOIO (3.5kW 304m - Parma)
15 WEWS (1000kW 311m - Parma)
17 WKYC (1000kW 296m - Parma)
20 WFMJ (460kW 295m - Youngstown)
23 WVPX (317kW 296m - Akron)
26 WVIZ (100kW 313m - North Royalton)
28 WUAB (200kW 337m - Parma)
30 WBNX (1000kW 334m - Parma)
34 WQHS (525kW 334m - Parma)
36 WYTV (50kW 149m - Youngstown)
39 WDLI (200kW 292m - Akron)
41 WKBN (700kW 418m - Youngstown)
45 WNEO (388kW 223m - Salem)
47 WOAC (1000kW 134m - Brimfield)
50 WEAO (180kW 305m - Copley)

LP and CA applications include WRAP at 40 with 10kW, WCDN & WXOX both applied for 7 with 0.3kW and 0.5 kW respectively (WXOX will most likely not be granted that), W51BI at 51 with 8kW, W52DS applied for 32 and 38, W58AM at 44 with 1.5kW, and still no word on what The Cat 35/29 or WIVM 52 plan on doing.

Kinda funny how WOAC which is a damn shopping channel will have more power than any of Youngstown's MAJOR affiliates or even WUAB.
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post #824 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

Kinda funny how WOAC which is a damn shopping channel will have more power than any of Youngstown's MAJOR affiliates or even WUAB.

That also baffles me how WOAC can use more power than WUAB or WVIZ, but they also have a lower antenna. This makes me wonder why any of the Youngstown stations can't raise their power to the maximum of 1000kW. I'm guessing that it's more of an FCC issue rather than a budget issue. The analog UHFs don't seem to have any problems with broadcasting well above 1000kW today. 1000kW seems to be the FCC limit for UHF digitals as compared to 5000kW for a UHF analog.
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post #825 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 11:47 AM
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It might be in part due to digital being more efficient as far as dB per watt of power or something, but still, why not max out the power?
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post #826 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

It might be in part due to digital being more efficient as far as dB per watt of power or something, but still, why not max out the power?

Why not max out the power? Well, I think the FCC is too anal about stations broadcasting too far and causing interference, but this doesn't happen often. The difference with digital is that I can get a weak signal with no picture, which is why I think that it wouldn't hurt to raise power levels a bit. I'm sure that there is a conservative amount of mileage between stations of the same frequency. Although I'm not sure how the FCC decides that. For example, there are a lot of the same channels in Buffalo and Akron/Canton... like 17, 23, 29, 49, and 67.

Here is an example... Say that WVPX 23 (Akron) and WNLO 23 (Buffalo) both increased their power to reach an area about 75 miles surrounding their transmitters (rather than the typical 40-50 mile coverage). How could this be a problem if the transmitters are about 190 miles apart? There may be double-images and interferrence on the high grounds around Erie Pennsylvania (although this would be very minimal). But how is that a bad thing if Erie is well outside either DMA? Both channel 23s would be able to more effectively reach their DMA by OTA. This is more conceivable with digital since it takes less power than analog to transmit the same distance. I'm wondering what a 5000kW digital UHF would do.
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post #827 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird2340 View Post

Anyone know if the Steelers/Browns came will be simulcast OTA locally? Freaking NFL Network!!!

Steelers Browns will be on WJW and KDKA. No where else, except NFL network.
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post #828 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 01:23 PM
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Steelers Browns will be on WJW and KDKA. No where else, except NFL network.

WKBN isn't carrying it? You'd think they would since BOTH teams claim Youngstown in their territory.
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post #829 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K View Post

Why not max out the power? Well, I think the FCC is too anal about stations broadcasting too far and causing interference, but this doesn't happen often. The difference with digital is that I can get a weak signal with no picture, which is why I think that it wouldn't hurt to raise power levels a bit. I'm sure that there is a conservative amount of mileage between stations of the same frequency. Although I'm not sure how the FCC decides that. For example, there are a lot of the same channels in Buffalo and Akron/Canton... like 17, 23, 29, 49, and 67.

Here is an example... Say that WVPX 23 (Akron) and WNLO 23 (Buffalo) both increased their power to reach an area about 75 miles surrounding their transmitters (rather than the typical 40-50 mile coverage). How could this be a problem if the transmitters are about 190 miles apart? There may be double-images and interferrence on the high grounds around Erie Pennsylvania (although this would be very minimal). But how is that a bad thing if Erie is well outside either DMA? Both channel 23s would be able to more effectively reach their DMA by OTA. This is more conceivable with digital since it takes less power than analog to transmit the same distance. I'm wondering what a 5000kW digital UHF would do.

The problem might be that such a powerful digital signal would overload all tv's within 20 miles of the transmitter - it's easier to overload on digital than analog. Like what happens when you use a preamp when the towers are 8 mi away.
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post #830 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

WKBN isn't carrying it? You'd think they would since BOTH teams claim Youngstown in their territory.

Nope. WJW, KDKA and NFL Network is it.
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post #831 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 01:34 PM
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Nope. WJW, KDKA and NFL Network is it.

Man
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post #832 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 01:43 PM
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Man

I found it odd that it wasn't on a Youngstown station too.
Seems they use to be when the Browns were on the old Sunday Night ESPN broadcast. I don't know what changed. Must be the new TV deal or the fact that Youngstown can't decided which market it wants to allign with.
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post #833 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 02:12 PM
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Anyone here in the Ytown area have Armstrong?
A friend of mine told me that he has NFL network but the live games are blacked out WTF?! Whats the point of having it if the games aren't shown?
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post #834 of 1958 Old 12-07-2006, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by akron05 View Post

All indoor antennas??

Yep...
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post #835 of 1958 Old 12-08-2006, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theshark8777 View Post

Anyone here in the Ytown area have Armstrong?
A friend of mine told me that he has NFL network but the live games are blacked out WTF?! Whats the point of having it if the games aren't shown?

Yup.. My friend has Armstrong w/ the package that has NFL network just for the fact he wanted to watch this game.. Goes to turn it on and the freakin thing isn't being showed. He called up Armstrong and they said something about not signing the contract to have the rights to show the game because it was too much $.. They told him to try rabbit ears.. This leads to a question..

He lives in Boardman. I live in Poland (I'm closer to Pittsburgh then him but not by much). I get 21, 21.2, 27, 27.2, 33, 33.2, 33.3, 62 all crystal clear with a boom antenna on my roof (I don't have cable). He got KDKA 2 in crystal clear in his bedroom with rabbit ears!? WTH? I can't even get a hint of that station!

Is there anything I can do to get more stations or is it just my location (down hill)?

Thanks!
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post #836 of 1958 Old 12-08-2006, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbird2340 View Post

Yup.. My friend has Armstrong w/ the package that has NFL network just for the fact he wanted to watch this game.. Goes to turn it on and the freakin thing isn't being showed. He called up Armstrong and they said something about not signing the contract to have the rights to show the game because it was too much $.. They told him to try rabbit ears.. This leads to a question..

He lives in Boardman. I live in Poland (I'm closer to Pittsburgh then him but not by much). I get 21, 21.2, 27, 27.2, 33, 33.2, 33.3, 62 all crystal clear with a boom antenna on my roof (I don't have cable). He got KDKA 2 in crystal clear in his bedroom with rabbit ears!? WTH? I can't even get a hint of that station!

Is there anything I can do to get more stations or is it just my location (down hill)?

Thanks!

It all comes down to location. I live in Austintown and OTA cannot get WYFX in the daytime yet pull in WJW pretty well. In fact a simple paperclip in the back of the TV and I can still pull in ch 8 over ch 62. As for armstrong it is not there fault since the NFL has decided that money is more important than the fans. I noticed that the NFL allowed the FOX O&O and the CBS O&O to carry the game.
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post #837 of 1958 Old 12-08-2006, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by theshark8777 View Post

Anyone here in the Ytown area have Armstrong?
A friend of mine told me that he has NFL network but the live games are blacked out WTF?! Whats the point of having it if the games aren't shown?

This is why the NFL networkis having problems getting its network on Time Warner. It comes down to greed. The more games they can get for themselves and the more they can charge the better off they are. They see that MLB, NBA, and NHL move more of their games to cable so they figure why not them. It all comes down to money and they don't care how they get it.
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post #838 of 1958 Old 12-08-2006, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by mavtv View Post

It all comes down to location. I live in Austintown and OTA cannot get WYFX in the daytime yet pull in WJW pretty well. In fact a simple paperclip in the back of the TV and I can still pull in ch 8 over ch 62. As for armstrong it is not there fault since the NFL has decided that money is more important than the fans. I noticed that the NFL allowed the FOX O&O and the CBS O&O to carry the game.

So plain and simple.. .Location?

I can't get a diff antenna, an additional antenna, etc to get more channels?
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post #839 of 1958 Old 12-08-2006, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird2340 View Post

So plain and simple.. .Location?

I can't get a diff antenna, an additional antenna, etc to get more channels?

A better antenna may help, or better yet, a tower. A 60 foot tower would raise you up higher and probably pull more in, since it would come closer to clearing any obstructions in your way.
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post #840 of 1958 Old 12-08-2006, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tbird2340 View Post

So plain and simple.. .Location?

I can't get a diff antenna, an additional antenna, etc to get more channels?

How high is your current antenna and what are you trying to recieve? Many stations have to protect their signal from other stations to prevent interference. Even if it is one channel difference you still can get problems if you live in between the cities of two channels. If for example you are trying to get WPMY (MY Pittsburgh) on analog 22 you may have a harder time getting it because of WFMJ-21. I would not be suprised if the engery coming off WPMY's array is more directional to the east and south as compaired to the north and west just to make sure there are no issues with WFMJ.

I do believe many of the Pittsburgh stations broadcast from Television Hill or from the oakland part of town so that can help make getting the signals harder. The Cleveland stations for the most part don't have to fight the terrain since the land is more flat there and there are fewer objects to deal with. The digital stations may are not completly at their final full power that they were assigned to. If the stations are not pumping out the juice it going to be difficult to get.

If you have obstructions that will effect what you will get. Radio waves are very strange in how they travel for some odd reason one TV can get it and the TV next toit cannot get it. Since radio waves are not 100% perfect in the way they travel,it really is hit and miss. E-skip can make signals easier to get but only if the conditions are right.
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