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post #361 of 2248 Old 06-16-2009, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syzygy View Post

I'm in Burnsville, a couple of miles south of the Minnesota River.

After telling my HR10-250 to rescan a couple of times, its signal-quality meter indicates only a trickle of information coming to me on the 9 and 11 frequencies. Not enough in either case to pick up any picture or even a station ID. Of course I used to get channel 11 perfectly. I used to get channel 9, on the 26 frequency, with some breakup because of nearby leafy trees combined with KMSP's circular polarization. (My antenna is a rooftop-mounted SquareShooter, aimed at Shoreview from a small valley, up a street, between rows of trees.)

Channels 4 and 5 remain solid, while 2, 23 and 29 remain problematic. From now on I'll have to rely on my HR21-200's spot-beam sat for KMSP-DT and KARE-DT, as I have already been doing for KTCA-DT and WUCW-DT. (I would include WFTC-DT here, except that MyNetwork is really Someone Else's Network.)

If you did wish to fix your OTA results. I think a AntennaCraft HBU22 would be a better choice for your site, and if multipath is a problem, an antenna will a more narrow may be a better option (I can provide some models, if you would like)

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post #362 of 2248 Old 06-16-2009, 11:51 AM
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So would I be correct in saying that the general public is having problems with 9 and 11 that is choosing to receive OTA transmission?
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post #363 of 2248 Old 06-16-2009, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by rwwong View Post

So would I be correct in saying that the general public is having problems with 9 and 11 that is choosing to receive OTA transmission?

The general public of the US would even be a better way to say it, VHF digitals are having a lot of problems, most of which, would be solved with decent VHF antennas though.

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post #364 of 2248 Old 06-16-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gjvrieze View Post

You will need a good VHF-HI antenna and UHF to get all of the Twin Cities at that distance. What setup do you have now?

Back in business! After another rescan, I got Fox9 back. After that, I went out and rotated my antenna ever so slightly and rechecked signal strength. It made the largest improvement in KARE's signal. This is what I have now according to my TV's scale:

4.1 88%
5.1 90%
9.1 50%
11.1 65%

I'm using a RadioShack U-75R.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103088

I also get TPT, WUCW, & WFTC. What am I missing by not having a VHF-HI antenna?
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post #365 of 2248 Old 06-16-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Krefly View Post

What am I missing by not having a VHF-HI antenna?

Nothing, the whole reason, I like strong VHF signals, is to give a bit extra head room for when the weather is bad. VHF digitals do like to dropout in bad weather in weak signal situations and if the weather is bad enough, they may dropout, no matter what you do...

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post #366 of 2248 Old 06-16-2009, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gjvrieze View Post

The general public of the US would even be a better way to say it, VHF digitals are having a lot of problems, most of which, would be solved with decent VHF antennas though.

Thanks man, can you recommend a good/affordable indoor VHF antenna? Or a store other than Best Buy that has knowledge and sells good quality antennas.
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post #367 of 2248 Old 06-16-2009, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwwong View Post

Thanks man, can you recommend a good/affordable indoor VHF antenna? Or a store other than Best Buy that has knowledge and sells good quality antennas.

It appears that the location of transmission towers relative to a window in your house makes more of a difference than any thing else. Expecting a pair of rabbit ears to pick up clear signals from one side of the house to the other is usually asking a lot. For more difficult locations I prefer the Radio Shack 15-1892 (UFO or Starship), if you are near a window and not far from the towers Radio Shack 15-1874 for $12 should be adequate, if you don't like to move antenna or you want something without big rabbit ears the RCA ANT1550 or 1450 (soon a 1600) are great (I am not a fan of the un-amplified versions unless you are really close to the towers), from Wal-Mart the 1450 is $35 (1600 is $40).
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post #368 of 2248 Old 06-17-2009, 01:44 PM
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I am receiving emails from companies trying to sell me a Hi Band VHF antenna. Indicating that many stations have switched to VHF and lowered their power.Thereby requiring you to buy a better antenna.
I wonder if 9 and 11 will stay at the lower power? I am sure it saves money to run the transmitter at lower power.I have a feeling they are not required to run at higher power.
Thanks for any insight!
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post #369 of 2248 Old 06-17-2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ddingle View Post

I am receiving emails from companies trying to sell me a Hi Band VHF antenna. Indicating that many stations have switched to VHF and lowered their power.Thereby requiring you to buy a better antenna.
I wonder if 9 and 11 will stay at the lower power? I am sure it saves money to run the transmitter at lower power.I have a feeling they are not required to run at higher power.
Thanks for any insight!

Oh no, the power saved is not a as big of issue with VHF-HI (especially in a large market), they are pretty "cheap" to run. As to increasing the power, it is just as soon as they get the gear installed. I would expect KARE to boast first, because all they did to get here, was convert half of their analog transmitter to digital, so now that the analog is gone, I would expect that they can quickly convert the other half and go to full power.

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post #370 of 2248 Old 06-18-2009, 05:54 PM
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I seem to remember hearing how happy Channels 9 & 11 were to be going back to High VHF due to their greater service area at lower power requirements compared to UHF...but Channel 11 is really having a tough time, even with antenna strengths of 20-30% I still get pixelation and sound drop out. While Channel 41 at best downstairs I get 15% and rock steady pictures and sound! And boy the cloud to cloud lightening storm last night might as well as struck KARE11 because they were effectively off the air!
And there was channel 4 bright and clear and unwavering and so was Channel 5.
I know, I know, 1000kW for Channels 5 and 4 will be more expensive than 35kW for 11 or 30kW for 9...but everyone might give up watching them first...and you especially can't watch them in a bad storm!
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post #371 of 2248 Old 06-18-2009, 08:17 PM
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I have a Channel Master 4228 antenna and get great reception on all channels including 9 and 11. My field strength meter indicates they are slightly stronger on 9 and 11 than they were at 26 and 35. This is with much less power.

It's true that those without the proper antenna will have problems, but I imagine their expectation is that most will correct their antenna situation. For example, I have a small 2 bow tie UHF antenna connected to the same pole that holds my Directv dish. This antenna feeds the ATSC tuner in my HR20 HD DVR. I didn't get reliable reception on 11 from this antenna and connected the receiver to the Channel Master antenna which corrected the problem. It now shows 100% on 9, 11 and most of the other channels. I'm 16 miles from Shoreview according to Antennaweb.

By the way, the Channel Master 4228 is in my garage attic and works great.
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post #372 of 2248 Old 06-18-2009, 09:06 PM
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I'm in Eden Prairie, and I'm having the channel 9 and 11 problem like a lot of you, but with a twist. I'm in an apartment with a roof antenna, not sure if its UHF or UHF/VHF. Either way, I get 9 and 11 just fine (at least 75% signal strength) on my digital converter box for my older TV. But, I don't get 9 or 11 in Vista Media Center (with Hauppauge 1250 ATSC TV tuner) at all. Is this a ViMC thing? Or perhaps my TV tuner? Doesn't seem like an antenna issue per se, since it apparently works with my converter box. Any ideas for me? Thanks!
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post #373 of 2248 Old 06-19-2009, 05:23 AM
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I tuned in to 9 and 11 last night just to see the effects of the storm.

I get pretty good reception with my antenna, and the storm wasn't that close, but I did notice frequent breakup in picture and sound. Not enough to make things unwatchable, but definitely irritating. Guess I'll be tuning in to 4 and 5 anytime I want to watch for storm news.

My reception on 2.3 (RF 16) is much weaker, but I noticed no breakups during the storm last night.

-----
Does anyone else notice the Minneapolis-OTA thread no longer appears in the United States THREAD INDEX. I had to search to find this thread.
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post #374 of 2248 Old 06-19-2009, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaundarbie View Post

I'm in Eden Prairie, and I'm having the channel 9 and 11 problem like a lot of you, but with a twist. I'm in an apartment with a roof antenna, not sure if its UHF or UHF/VHF. Either way, I get 9 and 11 just fine (at least 75% signal strength) on my digital converter box for my older TV. But, I don't get 9 or 11 in Vista Media Center (with Hauppauge 1250 ATSC TV tuner) at all. Is this a ViMC thing? Or perhaps my TV tuner? Doesn't seem like an antenna issue per se, since it apparently works with my converter box. Any ideas for me? Thanks!

I have heard reports of issues with the stations that switch channels in Vista/XP MCE, with the channel scan data not updating. If you get it at 75% on a CECB, you should have it on the PC too.

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post #375 of 2248 Old 06-19-2009, 08:35 AM
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I also had the channel remapping issue, but that seems to be fixed now. I verified that the new VHF channels are mapped to their correct RF channel (9 for KMSP, 11 for KARE; easy to remember since these were their original analog channel assignments, too).

So really, my issue is that VMC is simply not seeing the VHF channels...
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post #376 of 2248 Old 06-19-2009, 10:32 AM
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Now I can receive Channel 11 fine in our St Paul office down there next to Children's Hosp BUT not Channel 9, per TV Fool it should be best. Granted its not the best of Antennae Jensen Flat UHF/VHF/FM antenna, but it worked great in the office ceiling earlier and now no Ch 9. I do get 2.1 &2.2, 4.1, 5.1, 5.2, 11.1&11.2, 23, 29, 45.(Another quirk is that the RCA DTA800B box locks up scanning at 20% with ANY antenna if amplified at ALL, but if when it gets to 20% I unplug the antenna and then plug it back in it works great)
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...618a48e11763be
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post #377 of 2248 Old 06-19-2009, 02:04 PM
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I had a Radio Shack UHF only U75-R. As predicted, my 9 and 11 went south. I replaced with the RCA ANT751 from Fleet Farm for $60, and still no dice. Then I pulled apart the old F to balun (75/300) connection, and that thing was all rusty.

Of course my coax crimper has disappeared over the last couple of years so I had to go buy a new one of those. New end, new balun (was included with the antenna) and perfect picture on 9 and 11, 100% signal strength after a 40ft run on RG6 and a 3 way splitter.

Not sure if it was the antenna or the balun that made the difference, but that RCA antenna works nice if you're not too far from the towers. I'm 22 miles LoS NW (Dayton).

It's mounted about 6 feet off the ground outside.
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post #378 of 2248 Old 06-20-2009, 01:08 PM
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I am not getting channels 9 or 11. I was cruising along so nicely I have the db4 antenna from antennasdirect and a older CM7777 ( im sure when i bought the cm 7777 it was UHF only). Anyway, since the switch I havent gotten 9 or 11 at all, while im cruising along at nearly 100% on the other channels. Are the new 9 and 11 signals VHF? Should I change my amplifier? I am really desperate for help. I have repointed the antenna several times this week. (its 10 feet high) Im in Minnetonka.
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post #379 of 2248 Old 06-20-2009, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by koko5000 View Post

I am not getting channels 9 or 11. I was cruising along so nicely I have the db4 antenna from antennasdirect and a older CM7777 ( im sure when i bought the cm 7777 it was UHF only). Anyway, since the switch I havent gotten 9 or 11 at all, while im cruising along at nearly 100% on the other channels. Are the new 9 and 11 signals VHF? Should I change my amplifier? I am really desperate for help. I have repointed the antenna several times this week. (its 10 feet high) Im in Minnetonka.


9 & 11 moved back to VHF. The DB4 can pick up some high-VHF if 1) you're close enough, 2) the stations are strong enough, and 3 )you don't have the "original" DB4 with the old style transformer balun.

You probably now need a high-VHF antenna to add to your DB4.

First, check your pre-amp to see if the input switch is set so that it filters out VHF. Might be something simple.
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post #380 of 2248 Old 06-20-2009, 01:53 PM
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I just checked and i have the cm-7775 uhf only amplifier. my bad, i did know that it was uhf only. I get 0 signal on all channels with the amplifier off. Im wondering if a new cm7777 would fix this. I would, of course, bill Paul Maegers, I blame him. IU will check my db4 for the transformer.... thanks for the reply
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post #381 of 2248 Old 06-21-2009, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Doc Sief View Post

Getting all 5 sub-channels BUT NO SOUND...really eerie, wonderful picture and not a bit of sound, actually showed up about a week before switch over when one of my kids accidentally hit the scan button, nice clear picture and no sound and I am clueless why...but have no desire to see Channel 25.1-5

I made it back home yesterday and I played around with the various toys and when I did the re-scan on the Panasonic TH-42PD50U plasma I noticed that the set seemed "frozen" on the 25s. Unplugging power didn't help, etc. The only fix I found so far was to disconnect the antenna, disable the channel 25s, and then re-connect. I normally tune that set through a DISH 622 for both satellite and use its ATSC for OTA. For giggles I thought I would add all of the ATSC locals, but now I am wondering if the non-standard audio caused it to lock up? As others have indicated, I doubt that I will watch any of the 25s, but I am more curious from a technical stand point.

I also have an LG LST-3510A. It displays the pictures from 25, but will NOT decode the audio.
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post #382 of 2248 Old 06-21-2009, 12:40 PM
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I made it back home yesterday and I played around with the various toys and when I did the re-scan on the Panasonic TH-42PD50U plasma I noticed that the set seemed "frozen" on the 25s. Unplugging power didn't help, etc. The only fix I found so far was to disconnect the antenna, disable the channel 25s, and then re-connect. I normally tune that set through a DISH 622 for both satellite and use its ATSC for OTA. For giggles I thought I would add all of the ATSC locals, but now I am wondering if the non-standard audio caused it to lock up? As others have indicated, I doubt that I will watch any of the 25s, but I am more curious from a technical stand point.

I really wonder how Channel 25 is getting by with non-standard Sound over digital channels...the Insgnia converter box I have at one office is able to decode it, but neither RCA DTA800B nor 809 are able to decode it. So wonderful clear pictures and no sound. I should let the FCC know I guess.
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post #383 of 2248 Old 06-22-2009, 08:09 PM
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Due to many problems FCC okayed emergent increase to Full Power for KMSP, technically it should have been done by 6/16 PM, apparently some bugs/kinks reportedly fine, and it was much better yesterday. But on re-scanning I have had to double scan; first with antenna off, then with antenna.

Still having problems two of my RCA DTA 800B's locking up at 20% on re-scan, the plain antenna I have had to unplug and quickly plug back in, this makes me NOT get Channel 16 (DTV 2.3 & 2.4). The box with the RCA ANT 2000 Smart Antenna I have found just a 'quick lay of the hands' on the box, unlocks it and it progresses through but then it doesn't pick up Channel 16 either...
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post #384 of 2248 Old 06-23-2009, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc Sief View Post

I really wonder how Channel 25 is getting by with non-standard Sound over digital channels...the Insgnia converter box I have at one office is able to decode it, but neither RCA DTA800B nor 809 are able to decode it. So wonderful clear pictures and no sound. I should let the FCC know I guess.

They are sending sound out on Dolby Sound not Dolby Digital, they plan to have that corrected by end of July 2009. Currently Insignia, Apex and Zenith only inexpensive converter boxes that will get sound.
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post #385 of 2248 Old 06-23-2009, 09:31 PM
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Still having problems two of my RCA DTA 800B's locking up at 20% on re-scan, the plain antenna I have had to unplug and quickly plug back in, this makes me NOT get Channel 16 (DTV 2.3 & 2.4). The box with the RCA ANT 2000 Smart Antenna I have found just a 'quick lay of the hands' on the box, unlocks it and it progresses through but then it doesn't pick up Channel 16 either...

KTCI & KCTA (tpt.org) is aware and in discussions with RCA and the DTA 800 and 800B series locking up when they get to Channel 16. No solution given.
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post #386 of 2248 Old 06-24-2009, 03:46 AM
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I've heard of some boxes, the RCA included, that don't support unusual PSIP configurations. Even though KTCI is doing nothing that is disallowed by the PSIP spec, some tuners just don't like it.

Have to see what RCA says. I'd be curious to hear.

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post #387 of 2248 Old 06-24-2009, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I've heard of some boxes, the RCA included, that don't support unusual PSIP configurations. Even though KTCI is doing nothing that is disallowed by the PSIP spec, some tuners just don't like it.
Have to see what RCA says. I'd be curious to hear.
- Trip

Interesting how the boxes worked GREAT the first time KTCI changed from 17.1-17.5 to 2.3 & 2.4 back in 2/12/09. And things worked fine when I re-scanned on 6/13/09 (didn't even need to 'double scan') and NOW it suddenly won't scan past 20%.
Also heard BAD news that RCA sold their DTV Box technology to ALCO Electronics.
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post #388 of 2248 Old 06-24-2009, 02:25 PM
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to update my situation. I just received my new cm7777 (fast shipping from solid signal). its attached to the db4 only. now getting both 9 and 11's on tivo hd OTA. its like 50-68 on the signal meter. not getting the signal on the media center tuner cards.

50-68 is probably low for hd quality.
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post #389 of 2248 Old 06-25-2009, 06:24 AM
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The nice thing about digital - if you get a picture, the quality will be as good as it can be (a perfect match to what was broadcast). Signal strength and signal quality has no impact on picture quality till you reach the cliff. That's true for both SD and HD.
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post #390 of 2248 Old 06-25-2009, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kedirekin View Post

The nice thing about digital - if you get a picture, the quality will be as good as it can be (a perfect match to what was broadcast). Signal strength and signal quality has no impact on picture quality till you reach the cliff. That's true for both SD and HD.

Pretty nasty fall off that cliff when you do reach it! Which seems to be easy to do
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