Minneapolis, MN - OTA - Page 71 - AVS Forum
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Local HDTV Info and Reception > Minneapolis, MN - OTA
agus0103's Avatar agus0103 09:28 PM 04-01-2014
Yes, in my experience visiting relatives in Lakeville, RF 16 in that area is by far the most easily receivable low-power station.

Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 05:30 AM 04-02-2014
Don't forget that 43 is directional, which could be causing lower signal in your direction, and that 16 is both higher on IDS and lower in frequency than 33, both of which will make it easier to receive over distances. (And, of course, 43 is even higher in frequency than 16).

- Trip
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 12:09 PM 04-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by edjones34 View Post

I live in Montgomery, MN 56069. I am unable to receive most of the low power Minneapolis stations. I can occasionally receive RF 33 and 43. I can consistently receive RF 16 rather well. The RabbitEars website shows that all of the low power stations have an ERP of 15kw. I noticed on that website that RF 16 has a higher transmitter output but with less gain to get the 15kw while the rest of the low power stations have a lower transmitter output with higher gain to get the 15kw. Does anyone that receives the low power stations receive RF 16 better than the rest of them.

yeah 16 is the easiest for me to get too. My buddy can pick it up in Belle Plaine easily with an indoor antenna
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 12:18 PM 04-02-2014
I just checked the signals on the low powered stations and 43 is actually better than 16 for me in Shakopee

On my Tivo it shows the following signals (I wait until it stabilizes)
channel/signal
16-86
25-68
33-60
43-90
48-62
50-64
62-71

I have an 8 bay antenna (the solid signal one...the one they call "xtreme"...hey I got it on special and a separate VHF only antenna for 9 & 11). Before that I couldnt get 48 or 50 with my HBU22 antenna.
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 12:37 PM 04-02-2014
you may want to post this in the Minneapolis OTA thread...maybe I'll have a mod move it there
http://www.avsforum.com/t/446660/minneapolis-mn-ota

but I guess the questions I have are
what antenna is already there?
Do you get all the stations except 4?

Now one thing you may or may not know is when the digital conversion happened back in 09 all the stations are now on UHF (14-51) except Fox 9 and Kare11. WCCO is now transmitting on channel 32 (but maps to 4). You should not need an amplifier

a tvfool report for long lake shows cco as the strongest signal
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d5b94e6cdc09ad4
Runch Machine's Avatar Runch Machine 06:38 PM 04-03-2014
I'm wondering why people care about the low powered religious channels. There are so many. Does anyone actually watch the programming? Same for the shopping channel. They all are a waste of bandwidth in my opinion.
jjeff's Avatar jjeff 07:58 PM 04-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runch Machine View Post

I'm wondering why people care about the low powered religious channels. There are so many. Does anyone actually watch the programming? Same for the shopping channel. They all are a waste of bandwidth in my opinion.

 

I don't, I'm like you, I'd trade them all for just 1 channel I'd care to watch, but for a reference point, in Burnsville with a UHF/VHF attic antenna pointed towards Shoreview....

Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post

I just checked the signals on the low powered stations and 43 is actually better than 16 for me in Shakopee

On my Tivo it shows the following signals (I wait until it stabilizes)
channel/signal
16-86
25-68
33-60
43-90
48-62
50-64
62-71

I have an 8 bay antenna (the solid signal one...the one they call "xtreme"...hey I got it on special and a separate VHF only antenna for 9 & 11). Before that I couldnt get 48 or 50 with my HBU22 antenna.

16-71

25-0

33-0

43-43

48-0

50-0

62-43


unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 09:57 AM 04-04-2014
I see the guide info for 43 now reflects HSN2 instead of HSN
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 10:11 AM 04-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runch Machine View Post

I'm wondering why people care about the low powered religious channels. There are so many. Does anyone actually watch the programming? Same for the shopping channel. They all are a waste of bandwidth in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

I don't, I'm like you, I'd trade them all for just 1 channel I'd care to watch,

And the sad part is all those religious stations can be found on a roku so someone with high speed internet can see the stations without an antenna. Most of them even have a video on demand section.

I wish we would get an owner of a low power station here that would put some "real" programming. I know Regal Media owns 25 and they had that 2 month trial of "informed tv" with that......ahem....whackjob on there and his videos but they could put say the Luken mux on there of Heartland, PBJ, TuffTV, Family Channel. Sure most of the shows on the channels are public domain so they rerun the same 20-25 episodes but it would be something

I hope that when the Univision upgrades to digital maybe then we would get GetTV. Also there was a press release of 2 new stations coming soon
http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/75288/two-new-diginets-to-launch-this-summer

and they will be on the O&O Univision stations (or a co-owned one). I know WUMN isnt owned by Univision proper but maybe they would add something when they go digital.


Also I wonder if Sinclair is going to add anything to replace "thecooltv" on WUCW?
mattdp's Avatar mattdp 11:30 PM 04-05-2014
I live up in St. Cloud (56301) about 60 miles from Shoreview. In the attic of a one story house, I've got a 30" x 75" Dual Bay Gray Hoverman UHF antenna and a DIY double bowtie VHF antenna feeding into low loss Channel Master baluns and an RCA PRAMP1 (separate inputs and FM trap in). The antennas shoot through the roof. Both antennas have solid cardboard/foil reflectors. I've meticulously aimed both antennas. All full power TC stations have been rock solid for months. I can't pick up any of the LPs but manual tuning shows they do exist. The antennas are so directional that I've never locked KSAX or KCCO (which are closer and stronger). The nearest channel is KPXM at 30 mi. TV Fool plots all TC stations in the lower yellow to upper red region.

A few days ago 2-3 and WUCW had a significant drop in signal strength, to the point of being impossible to watch. Both seemed to have re-gained significant signal strength and are now watchable, but don't seem to have the same level as before. All my other channels register the same levels and are reliable as always. This is not the first time it's happened either. I've checked my system from top to bottom and everything checks out. The same type of thing happened a few months ago and seemed to affect different channels, but it went away after a day or two. Not sure, but I'd think 2-3 and WUCW would be on the same transmitting antenna as they're on 22/23.

I know a bunch you live right in the metro with plenty of S/N margin, but is anyone else noticing this kind of signal variation or is it just something with my setup/local environment?
eherberg's Avatar eherberg 10:52 AM 04-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post

I see the guide info for 43 now reflects HSN2 instead of HSN

On your Tivo? I've connected each night and my Guide is still showing 43-1 as HSN
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 12:54 PM 04-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by eherberg View Post

On your Tivo? I've connected each night and my Guide is still showing 43-1 as HSN

yup. Shows different guide info now on 43-1 than what is on 41-6. Yesterday was mainly "best of HSN2"
Runch Machine's Avatar Runch Machine 06:00 PM 04-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post

I live up in St. Cloud (56301) about 60 miles from Shoreview. In the attic of a one story house, I've got a 30" x 75" Dual Bay Gray Hoverman UHF antenna and a DIY double bowtie VHF antenna feeding into low loss Channel Master baluns and an RCA PRAMP1 (separate inputs and FM trap in). The antennas shoot through the roof. Both antennas have solid cardboard/foil reflectors. I've meticulously aimed both antennas. All full power TC stations have been rock solid for months. I can't pick up any of the LPs but manual tuning shows they do exist. The antennas are so directional that I've never locked KSAX or KCCO (which are closer and stronger). The nearest channel is KPXM at 30 mi. TV Fool plots all TC stations in the lower yellow to upper red region.

A few days ago 2-3 and WUCW had a significant drop in signal strength, to the point of being impossible to watch. Both seemed to have re-gained significant signal strength and are now watchable, but don't seem to have the same level as before. All my other channels register the same levels and are reliable as always. This is not the first time it's happened either. I've checked my system from top to bottom and everything checks out. The same type of thing happened a few months ago and seemed to affect different channels, but it went away after a day or two. Not sure, but I'd think 2-3 and WUCW would be on the same transmitting antenna as they're on 22/23.

I know a bunch you live right in the metro with plenty of S/N margin, but is anyone else noticing this kind of signal variation or is it just something with my setup/local environment?

Actually Channel 2-3 broadcasts from the channel 9 tower along with channel 29 and the other channel 2. Even though 2 is on RF 34 and 2-3 is on RF 23 they are not on the same tower as WUCW 23 which is on RF 22. 4,5,9, 11 and 23 and 45 are on the same pair of towers. The channel 9 tower though is only a few miles from thet towers used by the other channels so that where you are you'd point the same direction. I also have quite a variation in my signal strength and I"m only 16 miles away, in Minnetonka, But my attenna is located in my garage attic. Lately I've had trouble with 29, and all the channel 2s.
worachj's Avatar worachj 07:32 PM 04-06-2014
I'm having problems getting channel 29.1 on my TiVo premiere. I'm getting a black screen when tuning to 29.1. I have now notice that there are two duplicate 29.1 listed in the channel lineup and both have the same frequency of 29. If I uncheck either one they will both get re-enable when I leave the channel setup screen.

Anybody else having this problem?
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 07:36 PM 04-06-2014
I don't have a Premiere (I have a Tivo HD) and not seeing that issue. I get 29-1 just fine
JohnOCFII's Avatar JohnOCFII 07:46 PM 04-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by worachj View Post

I'm having problems getting channel 29.1 on my TiVo premiere.
Anybody else having this problem?

My TiVo (Roamio here) is only connected to Comcast, but as I'm also in Eagan, I thought I'd check my OTA directly into my TV. 29.1 is coming in just fine for me.

John
worachj's Avatar worachj 07:49 PM 04-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post

I don't have a Premiere (I have a Tivo HD) and not seeing that issue. I get 29-1 just fine

Thanks!

It must be the new update they pushed to the Roamio's and Premier’s that causing problems. Hopefully it’s not a channel lineup problem.
worachj's Avatar worachj 07:56 PM 04-06-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnOCFII View Post

My TiVo (Roamio here) is only connected to Comcast, but as I'm also in Eagan, I thought I'd check my OTA directly into my TV. 29.1 is coming in just fine for me.

John

Thanks for checking your TV as another source. I may need to try a reboot.
worachj's Avatar worachj 08:03 PM 04-06-2014
I just checked my other S3 TiVo and it does not have the problem. Its last service connection was 5:30 AM. The problem TiVo connected to the TiVo service at 2:30 PM. So if its a guild problem it may not show up on my working TiVo until it does its next connection to the service.
worachj's Avatar worachj 08:16 PM 04-06-2014
Rebooting the bad TiVo didn't help. I still have two 29.1 in my channel list and a blank screen.
Trip in VA's Avatar Trip in VA 05:46 AM 04-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runch Machine View Post

Even though 2 is on RF 34 and 2-3 is on RF 23 they are not on the same tower.

Is this a typo of some kind? The FCC database indicates that KTCI and KTCA are coming out of the same antenna on the same tower.

http://www.rabbitears.info/tower.php?request=site&asrn=1022899

- Trip
worachj's Avatar worachj 06:35 AM 04-07-2014
I fixed my TiVo with the duplicate channel (29.1) by re-running guided setup. It was the only way I could get rid of the duplicate channel. I have no idea what caused the problem but the recording history showed that the problem existed for the last 10 days. I guess it’s just an unexplained glitch. Everything is fine now.
edjones34's Avatar edjones34 08:00 PM 04-07-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Runch Machine View Post

I'm wondering why people care about the low powered religious channels. There are so many. Does anyone actually watch the programming? Same for the shopping channel. They all are a waste of bandwidth in my opinion.

I don't really care about the religious programming. I was just curious as to why I can receive RF16 as well as I do. Occasionally I have trouble receiving a random full power station, yet I can still get RF 16.
Runch Machine's Avatar Runch Machine 08:22 PM 04-09-2014
Yes it is a typo. They are both on the Channel 9 Tower. I meant to say that channel 23, which broadcasts on RF 22 is on a different tower than KTCA and KTCI.
KBrack's Avatar KBrack 11:15 AM 05-05-2014
I have a problem with 29-2 on my Tivo Premiere and also on 9-2. I'm seeing duplicate entries between the two sub channels, even though the call letters are different. For 9 here's what I'm seeing: KMSPDT - Ch 9.1 and WFTCDT2 - Ch 9.2. However, they have the same schedule and I get a black screen with a "problem with the signal" message. For 29, I'm seeing the same issue - 9-2 is blank and the guide info is duplicated between WFTCDT - Ch 29.1 and KMSPDT2 - Ch 29.2.

Is this normal and I should just remove the 9.2 and 29.2 from channels I receive or am I missing some programming.

Thanks!
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 02:59 PM 05-05-2014
its a glitch in the Tivo due to the crazy way 9 & 29 are set up.

Basically when the conversion happened in 2009 Fox 9 went back to RF9 and the signal didnt reach as far. So KMSP put a SD version of 9 on RF29 (which being full powered UHF has a little better coverage in the cities proper). They also put 29-2 (SD MyNetwork) on the RF9 channel. In the process it screwed up the Tribune setup (the guide listings) so its in there a few times

The -2 is really just a SD version of the -1 so I removed them myself

The "problem with the signal" thing is due to the Tivo trying to pick up 9-2 on RF9 which doesnt exist.
RF9 has 9-1 Fox HD and 29-2 My SD on it
RF29 has 29-1 My HD, 9-2 Fox SD, 29-3 Bounce and 29-4 Movies! on it
KBrack's Avatar KBrack 03:08 PM 05-05-2014
Thanks for the great info. I now that I read through your answer, I actually remember this and had done it before. Had to re-run guided setup and couldn't remember the details when the blanks popped up. I'll delete them too.
unclehonkey's Avatar unclehonkey 10:33 AM 05-12-2014
low powered chanenl 25 was sold.....hopefully programming changes wink.gif

courtesy northpine.com
King Forward, Inc. is buying low-power TV station K25IA-D (Minneapolis) from Regal Media for $126,000. K25IA carries five channels of programming from the Trinity Broadcasting Network, which owned the station until selling it to Regal Media in 2012.

looks like they own some low powered stations,.....most of which arent on the air
gregma's Avatar gregma 12:10 PM 06-06-2014
I live in Monticello and in my particular location I get some fairly borderline reception. Lately 9.1 has been suffering from dropouts, so I switched to 9.2 to get KSMP on WFTC's SD simulcast. The other day I got home and found a barker on 9.2 with the following message...

(Audio over text slides)

"KMSP and WFTC are upgrading their digital signals in late June. If you are seeing this message please call 952-995-XXXX, to leave your home location, cable provider and contact information on our voicemail. We want to want be be certain that everyone can receive KMSP and WFTC in HD. This message will be looped today on this channel until we resume our regular programming."

Does anyone know what upgrades are coming? More power? I think this message may imply that KMSP and WFTC are dropping the SD simulcasts.
Jim1348's Avatar Jim1348 11:44 PM 06-06-2014
.....Sometime before the November ratings book, KMSP and WFTC will start to do a "Channel Neighborhood" not all that dissimilar to what TPT and KSTP does.

VHF 9 will continue to carry KMSP in HD. The current secondary channels which WFTC carries will move to VHF 9. My29 WFTC's UHF signal on RF 29 will carry both WFTC in 1080 HD, but also will have a second Fox 9 720 HD. This way for the urban homes which cannot currently get a good lock on the KMSP Fox 9 from the VHF side will have the chance to watch KMSP Fox 9 on -- let's just call it 9.9 for this discussion. Your TV set will channel map all these services to become a 9.1, 9.2, 9.3, etc which will have the current WFTC sub channels of Bounce, Movies!

We will be changing the transmitter encoders which will allow for improved picture quality for both stations.

We will make announcements when the time comes to do a 'rescan' of your TV set. Some late model sets will read the PSIP data from a 'main' channel and automatically map the additional channels, older sets will need to do a new rescan. And if no new scan happens, KMSP 9 and WFTC 29 will still have the same PSIP address, so a TV set with rabbit ears will still see the two stations.

So for those who have poor VHF reception, KMSP in HD via UHF will look better. WFTC My29 won't change. If anything suffers slightly might be the Movies! and Bounce which move over to the VHF transmitter side, but our new engineering director thinks with new ATSC encoders in our transmitter will result in greater quality for all. But most important is to get the KMSP signal on the UHF side of the dial.

The old ATSC 'Grand Alliance' claimed that VHF was going to be the most desirable band and UHF would be more costly and have a smaller geographic footprint. As we know now, that theory didn't work and UHF really is the ONLY place digital over the air broadcast television should be.

And don't hold your breath, but within 5 years the next phase of band repacking will happen, and chances are good that ATSC-3 will be adopted. And if that happens, we'll all need new decoder boxes or new sets! Then we will operate in H-265 Mpeg-4 and probably could put five or more full HD streams into a single 6 MHz RF channel. That's still a few years away, but it is going to happen!.....
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