And don't hold your breath, but within 5 years the next phase of band repacking will happen, and chances are good that ATSC-3 will be adopted. And if that happens, we'll all need new decoder boxes or new sets! Then we will operate in H-265 Mpeg-4 and probably could put five or more full HD streams into a single 6 MHz RF channel. That's still a few years away, but it is going to happen!.....
Wow! Just looking in the room I'm in now I see 5 devices that will basically become obsolete(or to some degree) if your prediction happens. (2) HD DVRs, (1) SD DVDR, (1) HDTV and 1 CECB that was required to make a previous analog DVDR work after the last "upgrade".........not so happy about this. Not to mention 5 other HDTVs scattered throughout the house all hooked to an antenna and expecting a ATSC-2(MPGE2) signal......times they are a changing.
Also when you say they could put 5 or more full HD streams into a single 6MHz RF channel, I take it your talking about 1080i/720p channels? Wouldn't the main reason for ATSC-3 be UHD? I wonder how many UHD channels would fit in the 6MHz? And lastly, I think it's kind of funny they are thinking about UHD when most channels barely deliver decent 1080i/720p HD now days. I mean IMO only CBS(WCCO in our market) takes full advantage of our current HD, channels like ABCs KSTP look so darn awful anytime motion starts I hardly care to watch. I also take exception with FOX9 where many of their daytime programs while sharp seem to have a issue with macroblocking or blockieness all the time, not just during motion. Thats what we need, a bitstarved macroblocking 4k picture.....
Thanks for the info though Jim
This part about WFTC being in 1080i is interesting. Any of the Fox O&Os (even the MyNetwork ones) moving from 720p to 1080i would be kind of historic.
As you know, we have had problems with KMSP reception in some homes because the signal is on the VHF frequency. So we will be moving KMSP to the UHF frequency Tuesday around 10 AM. WFTC stays on UHF, insuring that both stations will offer the best signals possible.
In addition, we are grouping our digital stations into a “neighborhood,” similar to what other television stations have done in this market.
The new, upgraded digital channel lineup for KMSP AND WTFC is as follows:
· 9.1 KMSP HD
· 9.2 WFTC HD
· 9.3 Movies! SD (not available in HD)
· 9.4 Bounce SD (not available in HD)
· 9.9 KMSP HD
Viewers who have a cable or satellite provider will receive the upgrade automatically.
Viewers who have over-the-air antenna reception may have to rescan their television sets to receive the upgraded HD signals from KMSP and WFTC.
Over the next few days, we will be doing news stories about the need to rescan. And instructions will be on our website. In addition, we will answer phones on a hotline: 952-995-1852.
We don’t anticipate the problems viewers had 5 years ago with the digital switch. But if anyone you know has problems, the best answer is to tell them to rescan, per the instructions below.
1. Press the Menu button on your Converter Box, Digital TV, or remote
2. Go to Setup or Settings
3. Go to Installation, or System, or Channels
4. Go to Scan Channels, Program Channels, Auto-Scan, Auto-Program or Auto-Tuning
5. Press Select or Enter or OK to scan
Sometimes a Double Rescan is needed to clear the memory of the Digital TV or Converter Box:
1. Disconnect the antenna from the Converter Box or Digital TV.
2. Rescan without the antenna connected. As with any scan follow the on-screen instructions or owner’s manual for your device.
3. Unplug the Converter Box or Digital TV from the electrical outlet for one minute.
4. Reconnect the antenna to the Converter Box or Digital TV and plug the unit into the electrical outlet.
5. Rescan the Converter Box or Digital TV one more time.
Recently a station in Nebraska decided to stop broadcasting on RF 5 and instead share RF 4 with another station owned by the same company. Is that the situation that is occurring with KMSP and WFTC? Is it just cheaper for the company to only have to maintain one transmitter (RF 29) rather than two, so it's just shutting down its RF 9 broadcast? What happens to the RF 9 allocation? Could somebody else get a license to broadcast on RF 9?
Do you mean that KMSP will continue to be broadcast on RF 9 as well as on RF 29, and the only change is that the RF 29 broadcast for KMSP will be upgraded to HD? The announcement made it sound as though the transmission on RF 9 would be discontinued. I thought the mention of 9-1 and 9-9 in the announcement were just virtual channel numbers, not physical channel numbers. So Minneapolis is not actually losing any transmissions at all??
That would leave WFTC/HD(MyTV) maybe on VHF9 mapped to 29.1 and Bounce SD and Movies SD on either UHF29 or better yet VHF9........I sure hope they don't try and fit both FOXHD and MyTV HD(both 720p) on UHF29.......that would leave only Bounce SD and Movies SD, and maybe FOX SD and MyTV SD on VHF9.......time will tell I guess.
Wonder why they aren't doing this in the middle of the night......not that I guess there is much on at 10am on either channel but if one needs to rescan it probably won't be until after work, which could mess up a few things. Sure hope all channels involved have given advance warning to Tribune, it would be nice if Tivo were to update fairly quickly after the change.....
Last edited by jjeff; 06-20-2014 at 06:02 PM.
Wow a 1080i and 720p channel on the same channel I just can't see how that can be good.....I mean I could almost see (2) 720p channels on the same frequency but didn't people who were unfortunate enough to get the now defunct LiveWell network in 720p HD(along with 720p ABCHD) complain of poor quality on both networks? Now make one of the 720p's 1080i maybe with MPEG4 but MPEG2......
Well at least with FOXHD I can watch VHF9, I never watch WFTC anyway, do they even broadcast anything in HD j/k
Glad I don't have one of those Funai(Magnavox) DVDRs (with dual band tuner) that have a hard time mapping different physical and virtual channels, wow that won't be pretty...
Apparently there will still be two RF channels in use, namely RF 9 and RF 29.
But what precisely will be on each RF channel? Will each of the two RF channels have identical programming consisting of four feeds (FOX KMSP in HD, MyNetwork WFTC in HD, Bounce in SD, and Movies! in SD)? And everything will show up as virtual channel 9.*, regardless of whether the physical signal is RF 9 or RF 29?
If that is the case, then this truly does expand coverage by giving everyone the choice of whether to try to get the programming via VHF on RF9 or via UHF on RF29.
That is very different from what is going on in Nebraska, where apparently a company closed down the RF5 transmission and moved some of the programming over to a RF4 transmission belonging to a station owned by the same company.
I thought maybe some broadcasters were trying to consolidate transmissions so that they could give up some channels in the spectrum auction.
Last edited by veedon; 06-21-2014 at 01:10 PM.
RF9 9-1 FOX HD
RF29 9-2 MY HD
RF9 9-3 Movies!
RF9 9-4 Bounce
RF29 9-9 FOX HD
as for the Nebraska thing that was Gray getting around the FCC rules about owning 2 of the Big4 in a market. They wanted KHAS 5 (NBC) but the FCC cracked down. So they moved NBC top co-owned RF4 and simulcast on Co-owned 10/11 (CBS)
9-1 RF29 FOX-HD
9-2 RF29 My HD
9-3 RF29 Movies!
9-4 ???? Bounce (May put it on VHF since they don't intend to carry it beyond 2015, as far as I am aware)
9-9 RF09 FOX-HD
If I had to guess, of course.
And whats up with that MDTV it's just a big pig taking up bandwidth and IMO it will never take off. Mobile phones have already taken away part of our OTA bandwidth and with MDTV they plan on more!
WFTC is currently 720p but it sounds like they will be changing to 1080i, unless jim1348 is mistaken.....
This forum software is sure weird, I did NOT title my link in that way, it should have been just the raw link
Last edited by jjeff; 06-22-2014 at 05:00 PM.
VHF 9 will continue to carry KMSP in HD. The current secondary channels which WFTC carries will move to VHF 9. My29 WFTC's UHF signal on RF 29 will carry both WFTC in 1080 HD, but also will have a second Fox 9 720 HD.
Yeah, it's all guesswork until the change is actually made. The news releases by KMSP and WFTC did not get into all the details of which RF channel would carry which feeds.
The scheme that you suggest would at least have this virtue: If an OTA viewer were able to receive only RF 29 but not RF 9, then that viewer would see virtual channel numbers 9-1, 9-2, and 9-3 and might not even realize that there was a whole RF channel (RF 9) that his antenna was not bringing in.
Of course, if someone were in an area where RF9 was in fact available but RF29 did not come in, then that person would see a channel labeled as 9-9, but not see any 9-1,9-2, etc., which might seem a bit strange. But chances are that a person who can reliably receive the VHF signal on RF9 would be the sort of person who (having and using an outdoor antenna) understands about digital broadcasting, PSIP, etc.
It's a shame that UHF tends to be better than VHF for digital broadcasting.
Most of the major old-time stations in big markets had VHF channels in the analog days, so a lot of older viewers are accustomed to seeing those low channel numbers.
The fact that so many here have questions simply affirms that. If people here don't understand what's going on, I can tell you that the average viewer is going to be clueless.
The stations may be announcing this as an upgrade in picture quality because some subchannels that are currently 480i will be upgraded to 720p. KMSP and WFTC have been carrying their own main feeds in 720p and simulcasting each other's main feed as a subchannel in SD. Now apparently RF29 will have both channels (WFTC and KMSP) in 720p. It's not clear whether WFTC will be on RF9 at all.
I doubt that the MyNetwork feed will be bumped all the way up to 1080i.
I know that MyNetwork won the rights to show "The Walking Dead", but do zombies really have enough clout to get MyNetwork to a higher resolution than FOX? Zombies lurking on stations owned by FOX?? Hmmm...
Last edited by veedon; 06-22-2014 at 09:14 PM.
Hopefully Tribune gets the update QUICK as this will completely screw up Tivos