Minneapolis, MN - OTA - Page 75 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 5Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #2221 of 2387 Old 06-28-2014, 11:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
veedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Raleigh,NC
Posts: 874
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by agus0103 View Post
Yes, the wireless companies are going to prefer UHF spectrum over VHF spectrum, but we really don't know at this point how much interest there is going to be in the auction overall. There may be some interest in VHF spectrum in a metropolitan area as populous as the Twin Cities.

Translators can be fed in several ways: by receiving the originating station (or another translator thereof) OTA as you described, a terrestrial microwave link, a fiber link, or a satellite downlink....

The translators owned directly by KMSP are all still broadcasting in analog, and are actually fed using DirecTV (see post #2017). In about a year's time, they will either need to be converted to digital or leave the air. The third-party translators are all in digital, and in every case but one, they relay the full transport stream of the originating station. ... Now, how these digital translators are fed the KMSP transport stream is a good question. I don't believe any of them are close enough to be able to pick up KMSP OTA and relay the station that way. However, some are close enough to another digital KMSP translator to be able to pick up a translator OTA and then relay the signal in a daisy chain fashion.
I'm wondering whether there might still be a place for VHF in the world of OTA broadcasting. Since the digital transition, VHF has gotten a bad reputation in urban areas due to impulse noise problems and due to the large antenna size that may be needed for good VHF reception.

But VHF transmission is able to cover larger distances than UHF while using less power. So, for those metropolitan stations that wanted to still maintain some VHF presence, would it be feasible to have a VHF transmitter that sent a signal out to a translator located at the near-edge of the hinterlands, and then that translator could supply a daisy chain of UHF translators, as you described? Some of the rural residents might be able to still directly receive the VHF signal, while others would rely on a UHF signal from one of the translators. ( If the terrain in the hinterlands is relatively flat, UHF translators could cover the rural area pretty well, couldn't they?)

A big problem, as I see it, is the size issue for antennas that get good VHF reception. I have noticed that in mountainous areas, though, there is more of a tendency of stations to use VHF (I'm not sure why). That wouldn't be an issue in Minnesota.
veedon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2222 of 2387 Old 06-28-2014, 02:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ProjectSHO89's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,719
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 82 Post(s)
Liked: 73
The VHF frequencies are useless to the wireless companies. However, a VHF-9 allocation might be useful to some UHF broadcaster who give up their higher UHF channel to the auction and would still like to stay in the broadcasting business.
ProjectSHO89 is online now  
post #2223 of 2387 Old 06-28-2014, 10:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
A big problem, as I see it, is the size issue for antennas that get good VHF reception. I have noticed that in mountainous areas, though, there is more of a tendency of stations to use VHF (I'm not sure why). That wouldn't be an issue in Minnesota.
VHF "bends" over mountains better than UHF does
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2224 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 01:50 AM
Member
 
agus0103's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Brainerd, MN
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
So, for those metropolitan stations that wanted to still maintain some VHF presence, would it be feasible to have a VHF transmitter that sent a signal out to a translator located at the near-edge of the hinterlands, and then that translator could supply a daisy chain of UHF translators, as you described? Some of the rural residents might be able to still directly receive the VHF signal, while others would rely on a UHF signal from one of the translators. ( If the terrain in the hinterlands is relatively flat, UHF translators could cover the rural area pretty well, couldn't they?)
Sure, a station could do that, if desired. As long as the transmitting antenna is few hundred feed above the average surrounding terrain and said terrain is not too rugged, a digital UHF translator can usually get out at least 25-30 miles, even when operated at a fraction of the maximum permitted power (15 kW ERP). Obviously more power does improve reception ability and allow the signal to travel a bit farther, though.
agus0103 is offline  
post #2225 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 06:14 AM
Senior Member
 
Runch Machine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 338
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have an RCA Ant751 antenna in use and it gets VHF better than UHF. I've installed several of them, some outside and some in attics. 9 and 11 always come in stronger than UHF. At my home I have one outside and the issue I get is pixilation on 29 and 32/4 when the wind blows. 29 is one of the weakest stations as measured by my field strength meter.


These antennas are small compared to an antenna designed for lower VHF but bigger than an indoor antenna such as the Terk HDTVi. My daughter uses one of these in her condo and the UHF is easier to pickup than VHF. However, all come in fine when the antenna is adjusted and positioned properly.


I state this because VHF is better than UHF is certain situations.
Runch Machine is offline  
post #2226 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 02:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,945
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 99
I'll my SPs(the few that I have) for FOX are showing up to record on 9.9 They show the same thing on 9.1 as being a duplicate, so of course it's not set to record.
I guess it's OK but I'd think 9.1 would have been the logical one to record from(isn't it technically our main FOX channel) and also 9.1 comes before 9.9 so if it were only going on order 9.1 should be first.
Anyone else seeing this for SPs on FOX in MSP?
jjeff is offline  
post #2227 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 02:33 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Lost 11.1 - Kare 11 HD

I'm a very un-techy guy and am hoping someone might be able to help me out. We are in Savage and have been using an Antennacraft HBU22 in our attic with a DTV Pal for 4-5 years now. Antenna is pointed NE toward Shoreview and we've always been able to get all the major stations - 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 9.1 and 11.1. Recently, our DTV Pal stopped picking up Fox (9.1) and NBC (11.1). I read the last several pages and figured out the Fox issue. After some tinkering with the antenna DTV Pal now shows signal strengths for 4.1, 5.1 and 9.1 in the mid 80s and 2.1 hovering around 70, but I cannot get any signal on 11.1. I've bypassed the DTV Pal and plugged the antenna right into the TV and also get no signal there.

Any ideas on why I would within the last month or two lose 11.1?

Thanks.
Jim Blatzheim is offline  
post #2228 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 03:25 PM
Member
 
worachj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
I'll my SPs(the few that I have) for FOX are showing up to record on 9.9 They show the same thing on 9.1 as being a duplicate, so of course it's not set to record.
I guess it's OK but I'd think 9.1 would have been the logical one to record from(isn't it technically our main FOX channel) and also 9.1 comes before 9.9 so if it were only going on order 9.1 should be first.
Anyone else seeing this for SPs on FOX in MSP?
Its all because the call letters changed for channel 9.1.

TiVo's season passes are associated with call letters not channel number, in this case KMSPDT. Your old season passes were automatically switched to channel 9.9 because the call letters KMSPDT were moved to 9.9.

If you want to record from channel 9.1 you will need to redo each season pass to pick up the new call letters of WFTCDT2. Go to the guide to set up your season passes on 9.1.

Last edited by worachj; 06-29-2014 at 03:32 PM.
worachj is offline  
post #2229 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 04:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,945
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Blatzheim View Post
I'm a very un-techy guy and am hoping someone might be able to help me out. We are in Savage and have been using an Antennacraft HBU22 in our attic with a DTV Pal for 4-5 years now. Antenna is pointed NE toward Shoreview and we've always been able to get all the major stations - 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 9.1 and 11.1. Recently, our DTV Pal stopped picking up Fox (9.1) and NBC (11.1). I read the last several pages and figured out the Fox issue. After some tinkering with the antenna DTV Pal now shows signal strengths for 4.1, 5.1 and 9.1 in the mid 80s and 2.1 hovering around 70, but I cannot get any signal on 11.1. I've bypassed the DTV Pal and plugged the antenna right into the TV and also get no signal there.

Any ideas on why I would within the last month or two lose 11.1?

Thanks.
Not positive but I had a similar thing happen, with my favorite channel 4.1 of all channels! My iView would not tune it, TV and other devices hooked to the same antenna would but not my iView DVR. I'd tune 4.1 and nothing, I did a channel scan but it could not find 4.1, all other channels but not 4.1. Finally in desperation I went into my attic and moved my antenna the very slightest, only a few degrees was all I could due to rafters hitting the elements. Anyway after doing that I was able to scan my iView and got 4.1. All I can think of is multipath was causing the issue and moving the antenna even a few degrees corrected things.
jjeff is offline  
post #2230 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 04:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,945
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by worachj View Post
Its all because the call letters changed for channel 9.1.

TiVo's season passes are associated with call letters not channel number, in this case KMSPDT. Your old season passes were automatically switched to channel 9.9 because the call letters KMSPDT were moved to 9.9.

If you want to record from channel 9.1 you will need to redo each season pass to pick up the new call letters of WFTCDT2. Go to the guide to set up your season passes on 9.1.
I guess it's OK it records from 9.9, they seem to be the same bitrate anyway, I'll probably leave things the way they are and only redo my SPs if I run into an issue. I agree, the naming of the 9s need to be corrected by Tivo/Tribune.
jjeff is offline  
post #2231 of 2387 Old 06-29-2014, 09:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Blatzheim View Post
I'm a very un-techy guy and am hoping someone might be able to help me out. We are in Savage and have been using an Antennacraft HBU22 in our attic with a DTV Pal for 4-5 years now. Antenna is pointed NE toward Shoreview and we've always been able to get all the major stations - 2.1, 4.1, 5.1, 9.1 and 11.1. Recently, our DTV Pal stopped picking up Fox (9.1) and NBC (11.1). I read the last several pages and figured out the Fox issue. After some tinkering with the antenna DTV Pal now shows signal strengths for 4.1, 5.1 and 9.1 in the mid 80s and 2.1 hovering around 70, but I cannot get any signal on 11.1. I've bypassed the DTV Pal and plugged the antenna right into the TV and also get no signal there.

Any ideas on why I would within the last month or two lose 11.1?

Thanks.
check connections. Sounds like a bad connection may be hindering your signal. When I lived in Shakopee I had a HBU22 and had no issues with any of the stations and I had the DTVPal too. All signals were in the 90's except for 9 which was 86 or so. 11 was in the 90's too
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2232 of 2387 Old 07-01-2014, 11:05 AM
Member
 
John Hafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodbury, MN USA
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
FYI - getTV is now available on ch. 23.2 as of 9 am today.
John Hafer is offline  
post #2233 of 2387 Old 07-01-2014, 02:33 PM
Member
 
worachj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Hafer View Post
FYI - getTV is now available on ch. 23.2 as of 9 am today.
Thanks! After a re-scan my TiVo now picks it up.
worachj is offline  
post #2234 of 2387 Old 07-01-2014, 02:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,945
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Thanks for the tip, luckily I was able to just input 23.2 on both TV and Tivo so I didn't have to do ANOTHER rescan!
Not too excited about GetTV's bug, it's translucent but kind of big, and let's see how long it takes Tivo to get the listings. In that respect TVGOS was better than Tivo. With TVGOS I could map any channel to any number, change the channel order and easily add a channel name(for example GetTV) to a new channel, assuming the channel name was in TVGOS's database. Overall I much prefer Tivo's guide but TVGOS did have a few advantages too.
Oh and on both my Tivo and TV(Sony HDTV) typing in 23.2 the first time did nothing but after going to a different channel and then retyping 23.2 it came up My TV automatically put it in the channel scan list but for Tivo I had to go in and give it a thumbs up to get it on the favorites list.
jjeff is offline  
post #2235 of 2387 Old 07-02-2014, 10:56 AM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
I submitted a request to Tivo this morning to get "GetTV" added to the database
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2236 of 2387 Old 07-02-2014, 02:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
noticed that a couple other changes happened

Hmong USA that was on 50-2 is now on 62-2 (Daystar)
50-2 shows a slate for Supermicro
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2237 of 2387 Old 07-08-2014, 09:21 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
I submitted a request to Tivo this morning to get "GetTV" added to the database
still no update
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2238 of 2387 Old 07-09-2014, 05:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,945
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
still no update
Same here, I was just going to ask if anyone else had guide info for getTV......I wonder if Tribune even has guide info for getTV to add to our market, isn't it a very new channel?
BTW all my Season Passes(the few that I have) for FOX are still recording off 9.9 and my To Do List shows 9.1 as being a repeat
jjeff is offline  
post #2239 of 2387 Old 07-09-2014, 02:51 PM
Member
 
tachmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
FWIW the 23-2 OTA channel does not an EPG.

I have "reloaded" the channel several times as the EPG for the other 23 channels have been on the wrong channels. But no 23-2 EPG after reloading.
tachmn is offline  
post #2240 of 2387 Old 07-09-2014, 08:21 PM
Member
 
jjallou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachmn View Post
FWIW the 23-2 OTA channel does not an EPG.

I have "reloaded" the channel several times as the EPG for the other 23 channels have been on the wrong channels. But no 23-2 EPG after reloading.
It was there OTA around 5pm.....
jjallou is offline  
post #2241 of 2387 Old 07-09-2014, 09:01 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachmn View Post
FWIW the 23-2 OTA channel does not an EPG.

I have "reloaded" the channel several times as the EPG for the other 23 channels have been on the wrong channels. But no 23-2 EPG after reloading.
on a tivo no
on both HDTV's yes there is a guide for GetTV
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2242 of 2387 Old 07-09-2014, 10:52 PM
Member
 
tachmn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 64
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 14
This is weird. The DigitalStream box does not have an EPG for 23-2 (but does for 23-1 and 23-3). But when I tried the Zenith box, the EPG was working there.

That hasn't happened before. Must be something in the data confusing the DigitalStream.
tachmn is offline  
post #2243 of 2387 Old 07-10-2014, 04:04 AM
Member
 
kamot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
getTV

Strib has getTV listed on their web listing

http://www.startribune.com/entertain...220219481.html
kamot is offline  
post #2244 of 2387 Old 07-10-2014, 08:03 AM
Member
 
jimboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 190
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tachmn View Post
This is weird. The DigitalStream box does not have an EPG for 23-2 (but does for 23-1 and 23-3). But when I tried the Zenith box, the EPG was working there.

That hasn't happened before. Must be something in the data confusing the DigitalStream.
Do a factory reset on the box (re-initialize) and re-scan.
jimboy is offline  
post #2245 of 2387 Old 07-11-2014, 03:36 PM
Member
 
worachj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Eagan, MN
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 12
After a service connection to TiVo, both of my TiVo's (s3, s4) now have guide data for channel 23.2 Get Tv.
worachj is offline  
post #2246 of 2387 Old 07-11-2014, 04:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,945
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 99
After reading your post I forced a download and got a message that a new channel had been added. Funny thing is prior to the download I had 23.2 in my guide, with no information available showing for the guide info. After the download 23.2 went off my favorites list I had to add it back to see things had updated. You'd think if I had previously made it a favorite, getting guide info wouldn't have deleted it off my list but whatever, I now have it back and guide info.
Wonder if/when the 9s are going to get straightened out, my Season Passes still record off 9.9 and not 9.1 as I'd hope. I only have 9.1 on my guide so when a SP is recording on 9.9 I don't see the red dot in my guide to let me know what channel is recording.
jjeff is offline  
post #2247 of 2387 Old 07-11-2014, 05:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by worachj View Post
After a service connection to TiVo, both of my TiVo's (s3, s4) now have guide data for channel 23.2 Get Tv.
sweet
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2248 of 2387 Old 07-11-2014, 05:54 PM
Advanced Member
 
unclehonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
After reading your post I forced a download and got a message that a new channel had been added. Funny thing is prior to the download I had 23.2 in my guide, with no information available showing for the guide info. After the download 23.2 went off my favorites list I had to add it back to see things had updated. You'd think if I had previously made it a favorite, getting guide info wouldn't have deleted it off my list but whatever, I now have it back and guide info.
mine stayed in the guide. Showed up the day they launched with no guide info


Wonder if/when the 9s are going to get straightened out, my Season Passes still record off 9.9 and not 9.1 as I'd hope. I only have 9.1 on my guide so when a SP is recording on 9.9 I don't see the red dot in my guide to let me know what channel is recording.

so just change them manually to 9-1. It shouldnt be that hard to do. I use 9-9 for mine because I have a separate VHF antenna so might as well use it
unclehonkey is offline  
post #2249 of 2387 Old 07-12-2014, 08:35 PM
Member
 
John Hafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Woodbury, MN USA
Posts: 108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
FYI

I noticed that on the Wikipedia website on Cozi TV, it shows that it is (or will be available) on KARE-DT ch. 11-3. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cozi_TV)

However, after sending an e-mail to KARE, they responded back and said that Wikipedia is incorrect and that at present, there are no plans on adding Cozi TV or any other program subchannel to KARE-DT.
John Hafer is offline  
post #2250 of 2387 Old 07-13-2014, 04:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jjeff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 9,945
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Interesting, I guess Wiki can be wrong.....while it sounds like a decent enough channel I kind of applaud KARE for not adding another bit-robbing sub channel to it's currently pretty decent 1080i main. Wonder how Wiki got it wrong and how one would go about changing it....
Nice you were able to get a response from KARE
jjeff is offline  
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off