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post #2341 of 2370 Old 10-23-2014, 04:33 PM
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I'm curious if Comcast may actually have a better HD version of KSTP, maybe they get their signal from fiber
yes they get their feeds via fibre
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post #2342 of 2370 Old 10-23-2014, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
yes they get their feeds via fibre
But I thought I read somewhere(not sure if it was our market) that some stations feed the fiber the same signal as would go to the transmitter. If this was the case cable would suffer the same as OTA.
I don't have cable but if someone did and also had OTA it would be interesting to compare the filesize(or bitrate if you could read it realtime) for say a 1hr ABC HD program. I know OTA a 1hr KSTP HD program is less than a standard DVD, under 4gb, which is way too small for decent HD. Compare this to WCCO where a 1hr HD program is over 6gbs.
Whoa, just checked WFTC(Fox9.1) and they are even worse than KSTP, coming in at a paltry 3.6 gb for a 1hr program! I don't watch much on FOX and what I do isn't probably too demanding but I've never seen the issues on FOX9.1 as I do on KSTP. Wonder if FOX has a better or newer encoder....
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post #2343 of 2370 Old 10-23-2014, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
But I thought I read somewhere(not sure if it was our market) that some stations feed the fiber the same signal as would go to the transmitter. If this was the case cable would suffer the same as OTA.
I don't have cable but if someone did and also had OTA it would be interesting to compare the filesize(or bitrate if you could read it realtime) for say a 1hr ABC HD program. I know OTA a 1hr KSTP HD program is less than a standard DVD, under 4gb, which is way too small for decent HD. Compare this to WCCO where a 1hr HD program is over 6gbs.
Whoa, just checked WFTC(Fox9.1) and they are even worse than KSTP, coming in at a paltry 3.6 gb for a 1hr program! I don't watch much on FOX and what I do isn't probably too demanding but I've never seen the issues on FOX9.1 as I do on KSTP. Wonder if FOX has a better or newer encoder....
I'm with you, I think no matter how they receive it (fiber vs OTA) I think the odds of having a different feed are slim. Would be nice for someone to compare.

As for FOX, yep, the pretty much suck too for PQ. Locally here I would put NBC at the top, say 9/10. CBS gets an 8 FOX a 5.5 and ABC a 3. KSTP is the worst excuse for an HD channel I have seen anywhere. And our FOX NFL broadcasts are terrible too. Other than NFL on FOX it's a good thing I don't watch either channel.
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post #2344 of 2370 Old 10-23-2014, 07:20 PM
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Are there even mobile DTV capable receivers on the market? I've never seen any. Seems like one of those pre-smart-phone-and-4G-LTE-everywhere ideas that sounded good at the time (like HD Radio on AM).
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post #2345 of 2370 Old 10-23-2014, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdp View Post
Are there even mobile DTV capable receivers on the market? I've never seen any. Seems like one of those pre-smart-phone-and-4G-LTE-everywhere ideas that sounded good at the time (like HD Radio on AM).
Very few, but they are out there. You really have to go looking to find them.

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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post
I'm with you, I think no matter how they receive it (fiber vs OTA) I think the odds of having a different feed are slim. Would be nice for someone to compare.
I remember someone here doing a comparison some months ago and it was clear that the fiber feed was much better since they weren't feeding the Mobile piece of the transport stream to the cable company.

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post #2346 of 2370 Old 10-24-2014, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
I remember someone here doing a comparison some months ago and it was clear that the fiber feed was much better since they weren't feeding the Mobile piece of the transport stream to the cable company.

- Trip
That might explain why more people aren't complaining about KSTP's picture quality as most people probably watch it on cable or satellite(which may be the same feed as cable).
Kind of a switch from the early days of HDTV when OTA was generally considered better PQ than compressed satellite or cable.
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post #2347 of 2370 Old 10-24-2014, 08:45 AM
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It's still generally true that OTA is better than the fiber feed, or at least equivalent. I think KSTP just does a totally separate signal path for the fiber feed because of the huge amount of compression they're having to do to accommodate the Mobile DTV.

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post #2348 of 2370 Old 10-24-2014, 10:24 AM
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Whoa, just checked WFTC(Fox9.1) and they are even worse than KSTP, coming in at a paltry 3.6 gb for a 1hr program!
Rabitears says 3.3 so its close

Quote:
I don't watch much on FOX and what I do isn't probably too demanding but I've never seen the issues on FOX9.1 as I do on KSTP. Wonder if FOX has a better or newer encoder....
I mainly watch it via 9.9 which doesn't seem to have the issues as 9.1 does
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post #2349 of 2370 Old 10-24-2014, 03:53 PM
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I have Comcast and KSTP is definitely a better picture on cable than on the OTA signal.
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post #2350 of 2370 Old 10-24-2014, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John21 View Post
I have Comcast and KSTP is definitely a better picture on cable than on the OTA signal.
Thanks for your observations, that might make sense then why more people aren't complaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
...
I mainly watch it via 9.9 which doesn't seem to have the issues as 9.1 does
When they first added 9.9 I made a couple test recordings and both channels were identical in size for a 1hr program, so I figured it was a wash. I think people speculated that even though 9.9 could have more bandwidth, FOX may have been sending the same bitrate program to both channels. I'll have to do more testing, problem is I watch such little FOX and what I do isn't really demanding material. Now if they aired things like live event shows, especially ones with lots of strobes, it would be easy to spot a bitstarved picture.
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post #2351 of 2370 Old 10-25-2014, 04:46 PM
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I've noticed that people comment on the picture quality of KSTP. They mention how the mobile channels are taking away a lot of bandwidth. What I am wondering is how much bandwidth the feed sent from ABC has? I ask this because I've noticed that the ABC Owned-and-Operated stations have two subchannels of the LiveWell network, one in HD one in SD, so in those markets the main ABC channel has about the same bandwidth as what KSTP's does.
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post #2352 of 2370 Old 10-26-2014, 04:58 PM
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per rabbitears.info

KSTP uses between 7.7-8.7Mbps for ABC
LiveWell uses 1.55-2.25
Mobile takes up 7.34

Now if we look at a ABC O&O
WABC NY uses a variable bitrate but they max out at 13.5
KABC LA uses up to 14.0
KGO San Fran is up to 12.5

In comparison to other Hubbard ABC's in the state
WDIO Duluth 13.3
KAAL Austin 12.5
KSAX Alexandria (satellite of KSTP) 11.45 (KSAX and KRWF Redwood Falls has ABC on -1, a SD feed of 45 on -2 and MeTv on -3)

Last edited by unclehonkey; 10-26-2014 at 05:02 PM.
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post #2353 of 2370 Old 10-26-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edjones34 View Post
... I've noticed that the ABC Owned-and-Operated stations have two subchannels of the LiveWell network, one in HD one in SD, so in those markets the main ABC channel has about the same bandwidth as what KSTP's does.
And when the station has Livewell in HD, such as some other ABC markets, the picture quality is also quite poor. I've read posts from someone in the PHI market, where the ABC affiliate has Livewell in HD and they're always complaining about how easily the picture macroblocks with any motion, like KSTP(OTA anyway).
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post #2354 of 2370 Old 10-27-2014, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post
And when the station has Livewell in HD, such as some other ABC markets, the picture quality is also quite poor. I've read posts from someone in the PHI market, where the ABC affiliate has Livewell in HD and they're always complaining about how easily the picture macroblocks with any motion, like KSTP(OTA anyway).
The bitrate is already so low that the picture is so soft and blurry it makes it harder to see the macroblocking.

This station is a joke.
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post #2355 of 2370 Old 11-07-2014, 10:28 AM
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43 has been off the air for the last couple days (no signal). This is/was the HSN2 affiliate that was recently sold to DTV America for Telemundo/Dr TV
Also 50-1 has a nice "NO SIGNAL" and a water drop in the middle of the screen (from the source). 50-3 is still color bars
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post #2356 of 2370 Old 11-10-2014, 03:46 PM
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Will this being coming to Minneapolis as part of KARE 11 they are a Gannett station correct?


http://www.broadcastingcable.com/new...justice/135467
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post #2357 of 2370 Old 11-10-2014, 08:17 PM
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correct KARE is a Gannett station
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post #2358 of 2370 Old 11-11-2014, 06:55 AM
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I hope KARE doesn't do something like this IMO their HD signal is already a tad bitstarved, hardly noticable but visible during scenes of vary high bitrate, add another sub and it won't be good....
Again I love all the extra sub channels but NOT when they start effecting the main HD channel I watch 99% of the time.
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post #2359 of 2370 Old 11-11-2014, 05:40 PM
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The article implied that this new Justice Network will be replacing the weather subchannel, either right away when the network launches or when the existing contract for the weather programming ends.
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post #2360 of 2370 Old 11-12-2014, 03:32 PM
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not really OTA related but today Directv did add KSTC 45 (5-2) in HD for the locals. The only local station they dont have in HD is KTCI 2-3 (17)
(they dont carry KPXM in HD but they have the Ion East feed in HD on 305 which is same thing sans ID)
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post #2361 of 2370 Old 11-15-2014, 12:34 PM
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I see that in markets where Sinclair has GetTv as a subchannel they are going to be pre-empting programming to show basketball from the Sinclair owned
"American Sports Network". The football games have been on CW23 (the 2:30 game after the ACC game) but the basketball is on GetTv.

Last night they had a game and tomorrow there is one at 4:30. Next week there are games on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday. The zap2it nor Tivo listings reflect the games

http://www.caasports.com/documents/2..._1110_1116.pdf
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post #2362 of 2370 Old 11-16-2014, 11:10 AM
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Loving that we get the Vikes on CBS this week with great PQ compared to the usual garbage we get from FOX.
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post #2363 of 2370 Old 11-18-2014, 08:58 PM
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so I stumbled upon a screen on my Tivo Roamio OTA that tells me how many GB a program took up on the hard drive. And its amazing how minimal bandwidth KSTP is using compared to the other networks

All programs were football games
3 hour 30 minute football game
KSTP ABC 13.21GB (the 3:45 length game was 14.05)
WCCO CBS 24.37GB
KARE NBC 21.61GB (recorded 3 hours 25 minutes)
WUCW CW 20.72GB (recorded 3 hours 35 minutes)...a 3 hour recording was 17.72GB
KMSP FOX 20.27GB (recorded 3 hours 25 minutes from 9-9)
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post #2364 of 2370 Old 11-18-2014, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclehonkey View Post
so I stumbled upon a screen on my Tivo Roamio OTA that tells me how many GB a program took up on the hard drive. And its amazing how minimal bandwidth KSTP is using compared to the other networks

All programs were football games
3 hour 30 minute football game
KSTP ABC 13.21GB (the 3:45 length game was 14.05)
WCCO CBS 24.37GB
KARE NBC 21.61GB (recorded 3 hours 25 minutes)
WUCW CW 20.72GB (recorded 3 hours 35 minutes)...a 3 hour recording was 17.72GB
KMSP FOX 20.27GB (recorded 3 hours 25 minutes from 9-9)
Not really amazing when you look how bad their PQ is.
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post #2365 of 2370 Old 11-19-2014, 02:50 PM
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Telemundo and DrTV are broadcasting on 25.1 and 25.2 RF25. I thought they were going to be broadcast on 43.1 and 43.2 RF43. Strange.
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post #2366 of 2370 Old 11-19-2014, 03:05 PM
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Interesting. I know both 25 & 43 had been off the air for a week or so. I know DTV bought 43 but 25 was still owned by someone else (then again they pulled the TBN mux that time for that guy with the looped programming for a month or so)

Also 50 is back on the air but no subchannels anymore

and WUMN still looks like hell. Looks like an analog picture and the volume is distorted

edit: 25 is owned by Regal Media and the looped programming was "Informed TV"
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post #2367 of 2370 Old 11-19-2014, 03:36 PM
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25.1

What happened to TBN which was on 25.1?
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post #2368 of 2370 Old 11-19-2014, 07:01 PM
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it went off the air

Since the station is not owned by TBN the programming can be dropped at anytime. I posted above how last year for a month or so we had "Informed TV" on 25-1. Then it disappeared and TBN came back
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post #2369 of 2370 Old 11-19-2014, 07:02 PM
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also noticed Daystar "upgraded" to HD on 62-1
They have a low bitrate SD simulcast on 62-3

so its RF31 PSIP 62
62-1 Daystar 720p
62-2 HmongUSA
62-3 Daystar 480i
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post #2370 of 2370 Old Yesterday, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robrob10 View Post
Telemundo and DrTV are broadcasting on 25.1 and 25.2 RF25. I thought they were going to be broadcast on 43.1 and 43.2 RF43. Strange.
When I sent the update to Jon over at northpine.com he sent this back to me

Turns out the new owner of channel 25, King Forward, is a sister company to DTV America. Both are headed by the same guy - didn't realize that!

So that is how they could get on 25. The question I guess would be why they chose 25 over 43.
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