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Local HDTV Info and Reception

sregener's Avatar sregener
05:28 AM Liked: 10
post #361 of 1558
10-17-2006 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger_Wilco View Post

But you said something about "sparklies", didn't you? That commonly is from el-cheapo motors found in vacuum cleaners or food mixers/blenders or toys in very close proximity (like in the next room).

The interference has to be from the power lines he's using for the television, because he's got the sparklies on *digital* channels.

A good rule of thumb in cases like this is to have video lines and power lines at right angles where they cross.
sregener's Avatar sregener
05:36 AM Liked: 10
post #362 of 1558
10-17-2006 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger_Wilco View Post

Did they say anything about directivity or proximity? I would think that it could be possible if both transmitters were close, and you were right between them.

From the article I cited above (emphasis mine):

"Suppose the D/U ratio at your home is -30 dB. The co-channel noise due to IM3 radiated by one adjacent DTV channel transmitter is D -16.5 dB. This means that a 1.3 dB fade or a little echo will put your signal-to-noise + interference (S/N+I) at threshold, 15.2 dB. If two DTV adjacent-channel signals are at the same level, I = U -43.5 dB, so your S/(N+I) falls to 13.5 dB, and reception fails. Why?

"But that was just the first part of the story. Even at a moderate U signal level, there may be additional IM3 generated in your DTV tuner. The ATTC tests demonstrated this at a U level of -25 dBm. Receiver-generated IM3 adds directly to the IM3 that accompanies the adjacent-channel DTV signal into your tuner; receiver-generated IM3 attacks your desired signal, unattenuated. You might have had reliable reception until a DTV transmitter signed on at its maximum authorized power. Fortunately, if you put a 3 dB attenuator in the downlead right at the receiver, you will attenuate the receiver-generated IM3 by 9 dB! With only a 3 dB loss in desired signal power, that may take care of the problem. Suitable 75-ohm, 3 dB attenuators are readily available and inexpensive."

His tests seem to indicate that the problems are related to received power, and relatively minor input levels can cause major problems. But again, I'm not an engineer.
bonse's Avatar bonse
04:47 PM Liked: 10
post #363 of 1558
10-17-2006 | Posts: 53
Joined: Jul 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger_Wilco View Post

I thought that they said sometime around the end of the year, but I can't recall where I heard that, and nobody is backing me up.

Their signal causes me as much grief as 13's, but saturday it was quite strong on all antennas. Then sunday I lost it on one, but it remained high on another. Don't know if they done anything or not. I just give up. Call or email 'em. See what they say currently.

Here is what I received from the engineer at the local FOX...
"
Regarding when Fox 25.1 will transition from the Low-Power 480i/SDTV signal to the High-Powered, 720p/HDTV signal, what I can say is this: WLAX is still working with vendors in order to get the required equipment and get it installed...-

But, before the transmitter can be upgraded, we'll also have to perform two other upgrades; # 1.) We will have to re-furbish our current tower or replace it all together with a new one and; # 2.) We will need to upgrade the "signal path" (from our Studio-site up to the transmitter's site) in order to pass through the 720p/HD signal itself ...-

Then, following those first two upgrades, we can then upgrade the WLAX DT transmitter (Xmtr.) and antenna. At this point, the upgraded (High-powered) WLAX DT is expected to be on-the-air sometime in either 2007 or 2008.

I apologize that I can't be any more specific than that ...-"
Digitalhorde's Avatar Digitalhorde
09:29 AM Liked: 10
post #364 of 1558
10-22-2006 | Posts: 514
Joined: Jul 2000
sounds like Milty Grant needs to start selling some major league pron to get the $ for all that equipment.
elocs's Avatar elocs
07:16 PM Liked: 10
post #365 of 1558
10-30-2006 | Posts: 339
Joined: Aug 2002
I am watching Heroes tonight (30 Oct.) and there is no audio other than the background music and no closed captioning. I wish I had another NBC choice. Oh, there is audio for the commercials.
sregener's Avatar sregener
08:50 AM Liked: 10
post #366 of 1558
11-06-2006 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Anyone notice WHLA-DT bump up the power?

I'm getting a much stronger signal than usual, and antenna aiming isn't nearly so critical as it used to be. Now if only they'd stop starving the bandwidth of -1 with the ridiciulously low-demand programming on -3, we could all be happy.
elocs's Avatar elocs
09:33 AM Liked: 10
post #367 of 1558
11-06-2006 | Posts: 339
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by elocs View Post

I am watching Heroes tonight (30 Oct.) and there is no audio other than the background music and no closed captioning. I wish I had another NBC choice. Oh, there is audio for the commercials.

I caught the last hour of the Today Show and in the last 15 minutes the sound went way down and so I had to turn it up. Also, no closed captioning. Then I though, ah ha! So I called WEAU and talked with their engineer and he said it was a network HD problem that they were trying to work out and that NBC does not know what is happening either. The SD feed is fine. When recording from WEAU I use suspenders and a belt, recording the HD signal onto a dvd and the SD onto a super VHS. Since I put an amplifier onto my antenna to boost the signal from WEAU for HD it seems to be too powerful for the SD which was fine before when the HD would cut out.
elocs's Avatar elocs
09:38 AM Liked: 10
post #368 of 1558
11-06-2006 | Posts: 339
Joined: Aug 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by sregener View Post

Anyone notice WHLA-DT bump up the power?

I'm getting a much stronger signal than usual, and antenna aiming isn't nearly so critical as it used to be. Now if only they'd stop starving the bandwidth of -1 with the ridiciulously low-demand programming on -3, we could all be happy.

My signal from WHLA is 99 out of a 100 on my Voom receiver so it is very strong using my SquareShooter antenna, but I have never had a problem with it since I am so close on the northside of La Crosse. I agree with 31.3, it must have a very small audience.
jimboeau's Avatar jimboeau
08:50 AM Liked: 10
post #369 of 1558
12-30-2006 | Posts: 97
Joined: May 2003
This forum has been silent for awhile. Is there any new news on either digital version of WLAX or WEUX getting close to passing HD signals anytime soon? Here's hoping everyone has a great new year!
Digitalhorde's Avatar Digitalhorde
10:48 AM Liked: 10
post #370 of 1558
12-31-2006 | Posts: 514
Joined: Jul 2000
Thanks to craptacular WLAX, we won't be getting the BCS Championship in HD. Every week, I hope that the game I want to watch ISN'T on WLAX.

God they suck.
Roger_Wilco's Avatar Roger_Wilco
07:06 AM Liked: 10
post #371 of 1558
01-04-2007 | Posts: 64
Joined: Feb 2006
According to the WPT website, they have finished installing their HD Ops Center, and will start HD broadcasting every other saturday. However, the schedule for Jan 13 only lists previously seen programs:

http://www.wpt.org/digitaltv/

Also, anybody else having intermittant trouble lately with 13.1? (There have been reports of meteor showers in the past few days. I wonder if I'm experiencing scatter effects.)
sregener's Avatar sregener
08:18 AM Liked: 10
post #372 of 1558
01-05-2007 | Posts: 3,085
Joined: Mar 2002
Perhaps I misspoke the other week, because WPT stations still aren't showing any signs of improvement. I get frequent breakups on both WHWC-DT and WHLA-DT, identical to what I was receiving several months ago. Atmospheric conditions do play a role, and on "good" days, reception can be downright perfect. Lately, conditions have rarely been good. I perform a daily "test" with "Mister Rogers" from 12:30-1:00, one of the worst times of the day for television reception. Nighttimes are dramatically better. In contrast, WKBT-DT comes in perfectly 24x7 - I have to misaim by more than 40 degrees in either direction to get so much as a breakup.

Can anyone in the know report on WPT affiliate power and if they intend to do anything before 2009?
Roger_Wilco's Avatar Roger_Wilco
10:52 AM Liked: 10
post #373 of 1558
01-05-2007 | Posts: 64
Joined: Feb 2006
All WPT stations are supposedly at full power (they certainly peg my "meters"). You can contact them either by phone (per website) or email:

comments@wpt.org

you may have to ask them to forward the question to the engineering staff.

Starting sometime wednesday, overnight, and into thursday, there was a serious problem with WHLA-DT, where it was in a high-frequency cycle of signal dropout. I wrote to them, and things were fixed by thursday afternoon.

They don't actually say which sub-channel their state-originated HD will be on, but unless they have acquired the software/hardware that the WXOW engineer was speaking of some time back (from Harris), it would have to be on the .1 channel.
BJKrautk's Avatar BJKrautk
06:42 AM Liked: 10
post #374 of 1558
01-11-2007 | Posts: 14
Joined: Aug 2006
For the Wausau residents on this forum...

What stations do you get with an OTA antenna? I bought my Sony XBR970 so that I could use its QAM Tuner and not have to worry about reception, but Charter's continued failure to pick up WJFW's HD signal in this market makes me wonder if I'm missing out on Heroes and the Thursday night comedies in HD.


[Note: I'm mainly wondering about an in-the-house antenna; guessing my landlord wouldn't approve of anything more extravagant than that.]
lovebohn's Avatar lovebohn
07:38 AM Liked: 10
post #375 of 1558
01-11-2007 | Posts: 1,424
Joined: Oct 2002
Is WJFW putting out a digital signal yet? I don't see anything listed on antennaweb.org or their own web page.

You should have no problems picking up CBS, ABC & PBS in Wausau. Eau Claire and Rhinelander (if digital) will need more than rabbit ears to get.
Innova's Avatar Innova
08:54 AM Liked: 10
post #376 of 1558
01-11-2007 | Posts: 1,474
Joined: Nov 2002
What lovebohn said. I do get NBC from Eau Claire, but I have a 190" antenna on my roof.
lovebohn's Avatar lovebohn
10:23 AM Liked: 10
post #377 of 1558
01-11-2007 | Posts: 1,424
Joined: Oct 2002
Buck, can you get channel 12 from Rhinelander?
Innova's Avatar Innova
10:28 AM Liked: 10
post #378 of 1558
01-11-2007 | Posts: 1,474
Joined: Nov 2002
Yes, I don't watch it in the theater, however (why watch SD when you can watch HD). In our living room, I usually watch wjfw's uhf channel 27....it comes in a little better than 12.
lovebohn's Avatar lovebohn
10:50 AM Liked: 10
post #379 of 1558
01-11-2007 | Posts: 1,424
Joined: Oct 2002
So WJFW is digital but not in HD yet.
Innova's Avatar Innova
11:50 AM Liked: 10
post #380 of 1558
01-11-2007 | Posts: 1,474
Joined: Nov 2002
As far as I know they are still analog...but I haven't paid attention since I get WEAU-DT.
BJKrautk's Avatar BJKrautk
05:12 PM Liked: 10
post #381 of 1558
01-15-2007 | Posts: 14
Joined: Aug 2006
A bit of an update to the WJFW / Wausau issue:

"Charter has chosen to wait until our new digital transmitter is up and
running, even though we have been feeding them, via fiber, a HD signal.
I'm sorry, but I don't have a name for you at Charter. My primary contact
was promoted and has left the area. His replacement has not yet been
named.

The installation of our new, state of the art, transmitter is underway.
They expect to be testing it within two weeks, and we should be up and
on the air full power, full time sometime early February.

Thanks for watching!

Rob"

'Rob' would be Rob Krieghoff, the Vice President and General Manager of WJFW. I had e-mailed the station back in September (when I got my XBR 970) to ask about HD. I was told back then that Charter was already been recieving the HD signal back then. A month from now, I might actually be able to watch Heroes in HD! (Now if I could only get Packer games in HD....but that's more of an FCC holdup for WFXS.)
hdsoccer's Avatar hdsoccer
09:15 PM Liked: 10
post #382 of 1558
01-18-2007 | Posts: 9
Joined: Nov 2005
Anyone else notice that analogue WJFW 12 was showing the vertically streched NBC HD feed on Thursday night, how close are we to Full Power?
BJKrautk's Avatar BJKrautk
07:04 AM Liked: 10
post #383 of 1558
01-19-2007 | Posts: 14
Joined: Aug 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by hdsoccer View Post

Anyone else notice that analogue WJFW 12 was showing the vertically streched NBC HD feed on Thursday night, how close are we to Full Power?

I had taped the shows last night. I don't think it was vertically-stretched, so much as they took the NBC HD 16x9 picture and compressed the horizontal. [Note: if you watched Scrubs, which isn't filmed in HD, it had black bars down the left and right side...like I usually have on my HDTV while watching Standard Def programming.] The HD icon was clearly visible on Office and My Name is Earl.


If I had to guess, I'd say that WJFW had a problem with its SD feed last night. Since they had the HD feed, I presume they would have just doctored the image to fit a SD broadcast.

Since I only recieved the GM's e-mail that I quoted above on Monday, I don't take it as a sign that the station is closer than expected to broadcasting at full-power. The real question is: when will Charter Wausau start carrying the HD feed? (or will I have to buy an antenna?)
Digitalhorde's Avatar Digitalhorde
07:53 PM Liked: 10
post #384 of 1558
01-22-2007 | Posts: 514
Joined: Jul 2000
Well, the NFC Championship looked like crap on WLAX, while the AFC championship on WKBT was stellar.

I wish Fox would pull WLAX's liscense. It's 2007 and your audio is still MONO. Technically, they are no different today than they were in 1988. Ohh yeah, but they retread Eau Claire News at 9:00.

bastards
baldbear's Avatar baldbear
08:29 AM Liked: 10
post #385 of 1558
01-30-2007 | Posts: 80
Joined: Jun 2005
I agree WLAX should be suspended. Mono and refusing to do HDTV, with the Number one show on Television? Poor, poor management.
sregener's Avatar sregener
09:56 AM Liked: 10
post #386 of 1558
01-30-2007 | Posts: 3,085
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WEUX/WLAX does seem to be mired in a bit of a pickle when it comes to putting up a good signal. Investing in stereo equipment at this point makes no sense, since analog is going away soon anyway.

But you're also making a basic mistake: their license does not come from Fox but from the FCC. The FCC allocated frequencies and the like. Affiliate agreements with networks are managed by the affiliates and the networks; the FCC has little say in how that gets handled. So while you may want Fox to revoke their affiliation, you have to ask yourself who Fox would go to in the Eau Claire/La Crosse market. If there was an independent, they'd have somewhere else to go. As it is, the best they could do is talk an affiliate of one of the other networks to switch - meaning that WEUX/WLAX would still be a major network station, just not Fox, and they'd have the same problems with HD they do now.

Your best bet is to get satellite service and then request an HD waiver for the New York stations. It should be a no-brainer.
grgeiger's Avatar grgeiger
12:27 AM Liked: 10
post #387 of 1558
02-04-2007 | Posts: 122
Joined: Jul 2003
WJFW has been broadcasting in HD for quite sometime now (4 to 5 years). BUT.. If you watch the sign off (usually about 3 AM to 3:30 AM) the power output of the HD transmitter is 10 WATTS. (NOT A TYPO REALLY 10 WATTS). WJFW-HD is probably only using an exciter for a transmitter. I believe the HD transmitter is located on one of the towers at the studio and not using the main tower in Starks. Its probably only up 60 to 80 feet. I would guess the transmitter barely has enough power to cover Rhinelander.
Roger_Wilco's Avatar Roger_Wilco
02:33 PM Liked: 10
post #388 of 1558
02-04-2007 | Posts: 64
Joined: Feb 2006
In a previous post, I mentioned that Wisconsin Public Television said they'd begin local (State of WI) HD broadcasting every other saturday. Well, the first outing (on their digital channel .1) was nothing but tapes of regular PBS HD fare.

Last night, WPT presented a 90-minute concert by the Madison Symphony Orchestra, including guest recital performances by four high school students (it was a contest). Perhaps not your Cup of Tea, but I am not aware of any other Wisconsin broadcasters putting on HDTV live.

(The Milwaukee Technical School has produced Tracks Ahead in HD for a couple of years. WPT is also producing In Wisconsin in HD, but it is only shown on the SD channel - letterboxed - at this time.)

On other subjects, when Fox came to Milwaukee, the local CBS affiliate (Channel 6), dumped CBS to go with Fox. A new station (channel 58) took CBS. That network was NOT happy.

I cannot imagine a 10-watt station having much coverage.

HOWEVER, Amateur Radio licencees ("Hams") can operate television stations (using frequencies that cable operators CANNOT actually broadcast on - their signal is ONLY transmitted through the cable, and may not leak out).

Hams can use power levels of 100 watts or more. Even at 10 watts, with highly directional antennas at both ends, reports of successful reception at over 50 miles have been made.
elocs's Avatar elocs
06:26 PM Liked: 10
post #389 of 1558
02-08-2007 | Posts: 339
Joined: Aug 2002
Trying to watch it on this Thursday night and there is no audio channel. I can hear the music, but at least this time there is closed captioning. A couple of months ago I talked with their engineer and the network got the blame. Irritating to say the least.
Jacobee519's Avatar Jacobee519
06:41 PM Liked: 10
post #390 of 1558
02-08-2007 | Posts: 13
Joined: Nov 2006
Now the audio's back, but it's in SD. Oh well..
EDIT: 7:46 - Back to HD but no audio. What are these guys doing?

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