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Local HDTV Info and Reception

Deftones17's Avatar Deftones17
10:40 PM Liked: 10
post #271 of 11209
02-27-2005 | Posts: 151
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Man. Collateral Damage looked really good on CBS tonight. Too bad there are commercials.
Deftones17's Avatar Deftones17
07:51 AM Liked: 10
post #272 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 151
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Anyone have any ideas what is going to happen w/ the D-backs games this year?

Last year, I remember seeing one in HD, but that was on Cox. I am more interested in finding out about OTA stuff, specifically on Channel 3.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
10:08 AM Liked: 12
post #273 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 2,406
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Quote:


Originally posted by jdholzen
Thanks for the reply. Antennaweb.org says to point to Tucson at 124 degrees. That is line of sight for me, but it's 70 miles away. Is this too far?

70 is iffy. You would probably need the most highly-directional antenna you could buy, not so much for multipath reasons as for the gain it would have. A preamp on the antenna might be needed. The top of the line Channel Master or even the top RatShack antenna would probably work, just install it outside and very high. An engineer I know at FOX/UPN gets Tuscon HD reliably at his house in Mesa.

The Phoenix stations should be closer, and will likely have more HD capability and occasionally better PQ simply due to it being a larger market with more resources. You should be able to get them as well. I would try that first.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
10:15 AM Liked: 12
post #274 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 2,406
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Quote:


Originally posted by Deftones17
Anyone have any ideas what is going to happen w/ the D-backs games this year?

Last year, I remember seeing one in HD, but that was on Cox. I am more interested in finding out about OTA stuff, specifically on Channel 3.

I am guessing here, but I highly doubt that the remote facilities company handling the D-backs will have HD capability this year, or any time soon. Existing contracts normally play out at the state of the art they are negotiated at. It would likely take a new contract to stimulate any financial interest in producing them in HD.

The FOX games though should all or mostly be in HD, and occasionally when they play a large-market team the production could be in HD on 3 or on cable, but not often.

The good news is that the DT broadcasts from 3 should have somewhat better quality than SD, either OTA, or from cable or DBS.
pbenjamin's Avatar pbenjamin
12:17 PM Liked: 12
post #275 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 403
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Quote:


Originally posted by TomCat
The FOX games though should all or mostly be in HD, and occasionally when they play a large-market team the production could be in HD on 3 or on cable, but not often.

Fox Sports Net: They will likely show only a handful of games in HD (17 per their website). Shown on 722 on Cox, not sure if they have a place on DirecTV or Dish.

Fox Network: This is an unknown at this point. They have Saturday afternoon regional games in the summer, which have included Diamondbacks games. The network didn't do any HD until October of 2004, so there is no precedent on whether or not they will have regular season games in HD. They must have enough cameras and trucks to do so...

KTVK: They don't do HD at this point, so even if they got somebody else's feed, it doesn't seem likely. Last year the (non-HD) OTA games included a few on KASW, which does (now) do HD, but this year there are no games listed for KASW.

ESPN/ESPN2: Will show some HD games, including the home opener against Chicago. Unfortunately that one is on ESPN2-HD which nobody can actually get.

INHD: Any games that they show involving the Diamondbacks will be blacked out.
Deftones17's Avatar Deftones17
02:52 PM Liked: 10
post #276 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 151
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Quote:


Originally posted by pbenjamin
Fox Sports Net: They will likely show only a handful of games in HD (17 per their website). Shown on 722 on Cox, not sure if they have a place on DirecTV or Dish.

Fox Network: This is an unknown at this point. They have Saturday afternoon regional games in the summer, which have included Diamondbacks games. The network didn't do any HD until October of 2004, so there is no precedent on whether or not they will have regular season games in HD. They must have enough cameras and trucks to do so...

KTVK: They don't do HD at this point, so even if they got somebody else's feed, it doesn't seem likely. Last year the (non-HD) OTA games included a few on KASW, which does (now) do HD, but this year there are no games listed for KASW.

ESPN/ESPN2: Will show some HD games, including the home opener against Chicago. Unfortunately that one is on ESPN2-HD which nobody can actually get.

INHD: Any games that they show involving the Diamondbacks will be blacked out.

That's basically what I was afraid of. Since I don't have Cox, and KTVK doesn't do HD, we are basically religated to ESPN's coverage and maybe Fox's coverage during the season. I guess I'll just have to spend the money I would've spent on MLBEI towards tickets. That should get me about 11 or 12 games this season.
Soundmaster10.2's Avatar Soundmaster10.2
03:44 PM Liked: 10
post #277 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 653
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KTVK-DT has the ability to send out HD but the only problem is that they have no HD programming to show.
Mac The Knife's Avatar Mac The Knife
04:20 PM Liked: 24
post #278 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 4,903
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Quote:


Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
...
Please note that 3 of these (8, 10, 12) are VHF. I don't know enough about digital OTA reception (cable guy) to know what effect that will have on reception with UHF-only antennas. Just passing along the information.


Arrrrgh. Both my receivers are using SilverSensors, so it looks like I'll be testing TomCat's theory that the high VHF signals will still be strong enough.

Since co-channel interference doesn't seem to be a problem with these digital signals, I really wish they had all stayed in the UHF spectrum. Perhaps a miracle will occur and the FCC and Congress will force everyone to take a UHF channel so that they can auction off the high VHF in addition to the low VHF spectrum.

I am pleased to see that 15 asked for a lower number, I think the fact they they have been all they way at the high end of the UHF (on 56) has been causing some of the reception problems I have with their signal.
Deftones17's Avatar Deftones17
04:21 PM Liked: 10
post #279 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 151
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Quote:


Originally posted by Soundmaster10.2
KTVK-DT has the ability to send out HD but the only problem is that they have no HD programming to show.

Well, D-backs baseball could be one of those, but they probably won't. 'round and 'round it goes.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
06:05 PM Liked: 12
post #280 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 2,406
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Quote:


Originally posted by pbenjamin
...Fox Network: ...The network didn't do any HD until October of 2004, so there is no precedent on whether or not they will have regular season games in HD. They must have enough cameras and trucks to do so...

KTVK: They don't do HD at this point...

My guess (FOX) is based on the fact that they went from owning 2 HD trucks in summer 2004 to owning 6 HD trucks just before NFL began in 2004. Since they have the resources I'm guessing they will use them. This is the same reason NASCAR is in HD.

KTVK is indeed HD-capable. If the D-backs can backhaul a HD feed to them, you will get it in HD.
pbenjamin's Avatar pbenjamin
11:05 PM Liked: 12
post #281 of 11209
02-28-2005 | Posts: 403
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Quote:


Originally posted by Soundmaster10.2
KTVK-DT has the ability to send out HD but the only problem is that they have no HD programming to show.

Quote:


Originally posted by TomCat
KTVK is indeed HD-capable.

That and a buck and a half gets me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I'll believe it when they actually broadcast something in HD.
Soundmaster10.2's Avatar Soundmaster10.2
12:22 AM Liked: 10
post #282 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 653
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Quote:


Originally posted by TomCat
My guess (FOX) is based on the fact that they went from owning 2 HD trucks in summer 2004 to owning 6 HD trucks just before NFL began in 2004. Since they have the resources I'm guessing they will use them. This is the same reason NASCAR is in HD.

I don't believe any of the networks own any of the mobile productions trucks. They use to but now with technology changing as fast as it does and the maintenance costs associated with these trucks being so high, it is cheaper for the networks to lease them.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
10:18 AM Liked: 12
post #283 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 2,406
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Quote:


Originally posted by pbenjamin
That and a buck and a half gets me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I'll believe it when they actually broadcast something in HD.

Thanks for that contribution. You are free to believe what you will, but maybe we have some confusion as to what HD-capable means. I thought it was self-explanatory, but just so there is no confusion it generally means that (referring to a TV station) they have the equipment and ability to broadcast in HD, and if and when the source reaches them in HD, they can output it in HD without down-rezzing it or converting it to a lower format.

KTVK is actually"broadcasting in HD" this very second, if we want to get technical about it and define that narrowly. They are broadcasting in 1080i using ATSC protocols (and have been for some time), and that is considered an HD format. None of the programming has HD resolution yet, that is true, but that still makes them HD-capable by definition.

I am impressed with KTVK's level of comittment to DT, seeing as how they won't see a lot of HD content for some time. They are an amazingly successful independent station, and their ratings after losing ABC have been unexpectedly high. Kudos to them for keeping it real.
pbenjamin's Avatar pbenjamin
01:47 PM Liked: 12
post #284 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 403
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Until they provide HD programming it is pretty much irrelevant what their capabilities are.
hschen's Avatar hschen
02:37 PM Liked: 10
post #285 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 98
Joined: Feb 2004
Quote:


Originally posted by MatthewKH
hschen,

I am fairly close to your location. East of the Scottsdale Airpark by a few miles (92nd & Raintree). I am getting fantastic reception on the PHX digital stations using an Antenna's Direct DB4 and the built-in HD tuner on my Sony KDF-50WE655. I originally mounted this in the attic of my 2 story house, but experienced quite a few break ups and low signal strength on several channnels (15.1 in particular). I recently moved the DB4 to my patio roof just to see if mounting outside would make a big difference. Wow! Nearly every station gives me a 95+ signal. I originally planned to move the antenna up to my chimney where there is decent line of sight to S. Mtn (w/ Camelback partially in the way). However, I'm now going to leave it right where it is given the signal I'm getting. Prior to the DB4 I tried a traditional Channel Master UHF/VHF/FM antenna in the attic with fairly poor results. Since I didn't need the VHF or FM, I decided to try the UHF only DB4. Money well spent in my opinion. Hope that helps.

Thanks, Matthew. Sorry for not seeing your reply until now.
I have tried both approaches - reposition my old antenna and HD local channels in Cox. Both worked out fine. My Mitsubishi HDTV received HD local channels successfully. PQ theoratically should be no differnet from OTA signal since it's digital. However I seems like the OTA look better and since Cox does not carry 45 and 33 I now still use my big old antenna in the attic. By pointing my antenna towards 190 degrees and reducing amplification, the old VHF/UHF pulls in all stations reliably even during the recent bad weather. Only 45 is a bit shaky. Cox now is my back up.
Again, thanks.
elwood's Avatar elwood
03:50 PM Liked: 10
post #286 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 56
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Had an interesting set of phone calls with Cox regarding my poor signal to noise ratio on 5 out of the 7 freely available HD QAM channels.

First phase was getting the CSA to understand that the channels are being broadcast -- period. Lots of "we don't broadcast those channels without HD set top boxes," etc.

Second phase was debating whether basic cable includes HD service for the local stations. Their web page does indicate this in a very large foot note. Apparently I wasn't persuasive enough, but when I read it, it states that (A) reception of local stations in HD required basic cable, (B) reception of most HD programming requires digital cable and a set top box, and (C) reception of premium channels requires extra fees. They wouldn't agree to my take on part (A) (even though it is being broadcast at that tier).

Final phase was to get a tech on the phone who knows what HD is all about. After some small talk, we got to the issue of these channels. He admitted that the QAM-available channels are being broadcast, but that they are only available accidentally due to system testing. He implied that the permanent roll out will be in about six months (CableCard, anyone?).

He was also distressed that I was using a PC tuner card, and said that even if Cox was broadcasting the channels, and even if a tech could come to my home, that Cox still wouldn't support PQ issues because it was not a television. Since the channels aren't being broadcast (!!), no truck can be dispatched to my curb, even if I agreed to pay for the service call (and even though two channels are error free while the others aren't).

So I swapped coax cables and am back on ATSC OTA programming.

Brad
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
05:01 PM Liked: 12
post #287 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 2,406
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Quote:


Originally posted by pbenjamin
Until they provide HD programming it is pretty much irrelevant what their capabilities are.

Again, you are free to take that attitude, but whether you are happy or not about the state of affairs is irrelevant to the facts, and isn't really helpful to the spirit of what the rest of us are trying to do here, which makes your posts irrelevant to many of us.

Why some consider KTVK's HD capability relevant is because there is the real possibility of occasional HD programming becoming available to KTVK, including isolated MLB games this season. If they were not HD-capable, that would not matter, as they couldn't deliver it anyway. Since they are HD-capable, they would be able to pass it in HD. Most of us find it difficult to find fault with that.

Our glass is half full.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
05:09 PM Liked: 12
post #288 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 2,406
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Quote:


Originally posted by elwood
...even if Cox was broadcasting the channels, and even if a tech could come to my home, that Cox still wouldn't support PQ issues because it was not a television. Since the channels aren't being broadcast (!!), no truck can be dispatched to my curb, even if I agreed to pay for the service call (and even though two channels are error free while the others aren't)...

Consider the source. That has to be the most ludicrous reasoning I've ever heard. Cable service is, by definition, based on the service, not the display. The service is what they are cashing people's checks for. Cable technicians don't rely on your TV to judge the quality anyway, they rely on signal level/quality metering, which they have to disconnect your set to attach to.

As John Wayne once said, "It's gettin' to be ri-god-damn-diculous".
lombana's Avatar lombana
11:32 PM Liked: 10
post #289 of 11209
03-01-2005 | Posts: 125
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This hit me a little hard a few seconds ago when I checked the website at www.voom.com especially since all I've been reading is that they were plannign on continued service however it appears the end hit sometime today. Unless this is a disgruntled employee that didn't read the press release, it appears the HD project will have me calling DirecTV again very soon. Thought everyone might be interested.


Voom has ceased taking new customer orders and will shut down by the end of March.
PhdWho's Avatar PhdWho
11:01 AM Liked: 10
post #290 of 11209
03-02-2005 | Posts: 1,223
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More poor OTA Reception from FOX HD during Survivor last night.

When will it end .....
PhdWho's Avatar PhdWho
11:30 AM Liked: 10
post #291 of 11209
03-02-2005 | Posts: 1,223
Joined: Jan 2005
survivor??? I meant American Idol.

I'm confusing my reality....based shows.

Back to the Battlestar Gallactica boards.
fkh's Avatar fkh
07:09 AM Liked: 10
post #292 of 11209
03-03-2005 | Posts: 6
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Just wanted to post my set up and signal strength for anyone who might be interested. I read through the forum this past week to get info on set up and found it very helpful.

I have a DirecTV HD Tivo (HR10-250) with a Terk TV5. I live at Cooper and Chandler Heights in a single story home. The Terk TV5 is sitting behind my television in a vertical position. UHF signal has to travel though 4 walls to get to the antenna. I can get the following channels at ~70% signal strength with antenna set in a single position.

KTVK 3.1
CBS 5.1
Fox 10.1
NBC 12.1
ABC 15.1
UPN 45.1

I cannot get PBS (8.1) and TBN (21.1).

Frank
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
12:16 PM Liked: 12
post #293 of 11209
03-03-2005 | Posts: 2,406
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Frank:

Considering your obstacles, it is truly remarkable that you are getting reliable reception. I am pretty close to your location (12 miles east of S. Mt.), and am lucky enough (actually it was planning...a condition of where I purchased was unobstructed south and west exposure for DT and DBS) to have a west-facing window with line-of-sight to S. Mt., where I get perfect reception with a piece of twinlead taped to a 2nd-floor window.

My best guess would be that since 21 and 8 originate from the same location as the rest, that there may be just enough multipath in your setup to preclude reliable reception. If so, sometimes slight reorientation can be helpful, or maybe a different antenna. IOW, I think you are just "that close" to getting them as well. I don't intend to disparage you or Terk, but from what I've seen, the Terk antennas do not perform all that well. The darling of antennas at least among results posted to the forums seems to be the Silver Sensor, so you might want to give that a try. Obviously, a rooftop would probably even work better. Good luck.
fkh's Avatar fkh
04:18 PM Liked: 10
post #294 of 11209
03-03-2005 | Posts: 6
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[quote]Originally posted by TomCat
Frank:

Considering your obstacles, it is truly remarkable that you are getting reliable reception. I am pretty close to your location (12 miles east of S. Mt.), and am lucky enough (actually it was planning...a condition of where I purchased was unobstructed south and west exposure for DT and DBS) to have a west-facing window with line-of-sight to S. Mt., where I get perfect reception with a piece of twinlead taped to a 2nd-floor window.

My best guess would be that since 21 and 8 originate from the same location as the rest, that there may be just enough multipath in your setup to preclude reliable reception. If so, sometimes slight reorientation can be helpful, or maybe a different antenna. IOW, I think you are just "that close" to getting them as well. I don't intend to disparage you or Terk, but from what I've seen, the Terk antennas do not perform all that well. The darling of antennas at least among results posted to the forums seems to be the Silver Sensor, so you might want to give that a try. Obviously, a rooftop would probably even work better. Good luck.
[/QUOTE

Thanks for the advice, TomCat. Unfortunately, I have one other obstacle: The Wife. She thinks that the Terk TV5 is the ugliest "thing" she has seen and that I am not allowed to display it anywhere. I am sure the Silver Sensor would work great, but it is too bulky to place behind the TV. The TV5's elements slip nicely behind the cabinet when the unit is behind the right side of the TV (Sony 50" LCD Wega). I never watch channel 21 or 8, anyway. I 'm just happy to watch all the CSI's, Las Vegas, and Alias in HD.

fkh
fkh's Avatar fkh
11:31 AM Liked: 10
post #295 of 11209
03-04-2005 | Posts: 6
Joined: Feb 2005
TomCat,

I was having stability issues with my Terk TV5 (intermittent break ups in the signal) after watching a few shows. I was starting to get dissatisfied with the Terk TV5.

I thought about your setup with the twin leads and came up with an idea to take my signal acquisition outdoors. It turns out that my satellite cable connects through the Cox Cable box (Cox had there stuff preinstalled) at the northwest corner of my house. I found a diplexer and a copper wire antenna (used for FM receiving for my stereo) in my garage. I also bought another diplexer from Radio Shack. Using clips designed for Christmas lights, I installed the FM antenna along the eaves of the roof on the northwest corner, which points directly to South Mountain. I connected the Sat cable and FM antenna cable to the diplexer. I then installed the other diplexer just before my HR10-250 Receiver.

I now get CBS, NBC, ABC, UPN, and PBS at over 80% signal strength. CBS is over 90%. No amplification required! I still don't get TBN (not necessary).

The Terk TV5 is going back to Best Buy.

Thanks for describing your setup. It saved me $40.

fkh
Mac The Knife's Avatar Mac The Knife
12:59 PM Liked: 24
post #296 of 11209
03-05-2005 | Posts: 4,903
Joined: Oct 2003
I sure had tons of reception problems last night.

Due to the weather, outbound airtraffic was being routed to the northwest so everytime a plane flew past my house the multipath would destroy my signal on channels 5, 8 and 12.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
10:16 PM Liked: 12
post #297 of 11209
03-05-2005 | Posts: 2,406
Joined: Jul 2000
FYI: KSAZ-DT 31 is currently transmitting at low power from a backup antenna so that a cracked T in the main transmission line can be fixed. This should not affect reception or PQ for very many of us, but may it affect reception for those with marginal reception due to distance.
zxr35's Avatar zxr35
01:14 PM Liked: 10
post #298 of 11209
03-07-2005 | Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2003
I picked up a 8300HD box over the weekend and subscribe to Cox HD.
Shouldn't the box differentiate the signals coming through it, if it's HD signal or just regular cable. It seems mine is stuck on 1080i, I've already went through the HD wizard on the box at startup and selected the different formats, 480i, 720p etc. Any help would be appreciated.
pbenjamin's Avatar pbenjamin
01:20 PM Liked: 12
post #299 of 11209
03-07-2005 | Posts: 403
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In the settings menu there is an item that allows you to pick between Fixed, UpConvert1, UpConvert2 and PassThrough. The default is Fixed, which is what you are seeing. Sounds like you want PassThrough.
zxr35's Avatar zxr35
02:05 PM Liked: 10
post #300 of 11209
03-07-2005 | Posts: 24
Joined: Feb 2003
is that the settings menu that you access through the remote control for the 8300 box?

Thanks

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