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post #301 of 11228 Old 03-07-2005, 03:44 PM
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Yes

Paul
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post #302 of 11228 Old 03-07-2005, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by zxr35
is that the settings menu that you access through the remote control for the 8300 box?

Thanks

Yes, it is the Set: Picture Format optionin General Settings. You can use either Pass-Through or one of the Upconverts (1 if your HDTV does 1080i, 2 if it does 720p). The difference is that Pass-Through will let your HDTV convert the formats for your display whereas the Upconverts let the 8300 do it.

Cheers, Dave
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post #303 of 11228 Old 03-10-2005, 03:57 PM
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Anyone else have problems with Fox last night during American Idle? I kept loosing the signal. All other stations were fine.

-Paul
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post #304 of 11228 Old 03-10-2005, 04:18 PM
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I always lose signal on Fox but I think it's my setup.
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post #305 of 11228 Old 03-11-2005, 05:34 PM
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Has anyone noticed a problem with audio on 15.1? It began when they were implementing 5.1 Dolby and still is there. It sounds as if the right and left channels (conventional audio channels) are differentially delayed one from the other by 7-12 ms. With sharp impulse sounds you can actually hear a slap-back echo effect, and on wideband sounds like applause or rain or traffic it sounds like there is a pronounced peak at somewhere between 300 to 600 Hz. Most of the time it's hard to hear, because most sounds aren't wideband (which masks that peak) and most sounds aren't sharp impulse sounds (which masks the delay), but it is definitely there, and definitely annoying. Just wondering if anyone else hears that.

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post #306 of 11228 Old 03-11-2005, 05:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TomCat
Has anyone noticed a problem with audio on 15.1? It began when they were implementing 5.1 Dolby and still is there. It sounds as if the right and left channels (conventional audio channels) are differentially delayed one from the other by 7-12 ms. With sharp impulse sounds you can actually hear a slap-back echo effect, and on wideband sounds like applause or rain or traffic it sounds like there is a pronounced peak at somewhere between 300 to 600 Hz. Most of the time it's hard to hear, because most sounds aren't wideband (which masks that peak) and most sounds aren't sharp impulse sounds (which masks the delay), but it is definitely there, and definitely annoying. Just wondering if anyone else hears that.

No not really. I know that I still here that annoying delay and then a pop in the signal when they comeback from commercial to a show.

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post #307 of 11228 Old 03-11-2005, 11:20 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TomCat
Has anyone noticed a problem with audio on 15.1? It began when they were implementing 5.1 Dolby and still is there. It sounds as if the right and left channels (conventional audio channels) are differentially delayed one from the other by 7-12 ms. With sharp impulse sounds you can actually hear a slap-back echo effect, and on wideband sounds like applause or rain or traffic it sounds like there is a pronounced peak at somewhere between 300 to 600 Hz. Most of the time it's hard to hear, because most sounds aren't wideband (which masks that peak) and most sounds aren't sharp impulse sounds (which masks the delay), but it is definitely there, and definitely annoying. Just wondering if anyone else hears that.

Yes I've heard it the past 2 weeks now, but only when I listen stereo through the TV speakers. The 5.1 dolby digital surround through my AVR sounds fine though.
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post #308 of 11228 Old 03-12-2005, 07:34 PM
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Hello,
I'm moving to Surprise in July. Will I be able to receive Local HD stations OTA ?
My new home will be wired for an attic antennae HD, separate wiring for DBS and Cable. Would you expect a good signal strength ? Or, should I use the local Cox?

Thanks!

I see rainbows
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post #309 of 11228 Old 03-12-2005, 07:44 PM
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If you have a rooftop antenna, you should be able to get HD reception in Surprise just fine. Go to AntennaWeb.org to find out for sure!
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post #310 of 11228 Old 03-12-2005, 07:51 PM
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Thanks !

I see rainbows
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post #311 of 11228 Old 03-12-2005, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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The keyword is "rooftop". You may or may not be able to get a good signal on all stations with an attic antenna. It all depends on how your home (attic) is oriented to South Mountain (where all the towers are) and the type of construction, etc., to avoid mulitpath problems.

You didn't mention what type of HD tuner you intended to use, integrated or standalone (satellite or OTA only) or if you intended to get satellite or cable for other channels, cable for internet, etc.

If you intended to get Cox for internet and you have an HDTV with an integrated tuner that can receive unencrypted QAM signals, you may not need an antenna at all. You may be able to receive the local HD channels through Cox at no added charge (over the cost of internet service) because basic cable is usually included with the internet service, including HD locals.

Cheers, Dave
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post #312 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EJKrew
Hello,
I'm moving to Surprise in July. Will I be able to receive Local HD stations OTA ?
My new home will be wired for an attic antennae HD, separate wiring for DBS and Cable. Would you expect a good signal strength ? Or, should I use the local Cox?

Thanks!

I live in Surprise (SCG), and I have Directv, and receive the locals via OTA, both SD and HD, with very good reception.

HTH,

Rich
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post #313 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 12:06 PM
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Which is better? DirecTV or COX ? Is the quality difference noticeable?
The DiirecTV dish can be fitted with an OTA HD antenna, correct?
Does DTV give you a choice regarding the type of tuner? I am presently a DTV subscriber in Oregon, SD only. I'm hooked on TIVO timeshifting and would relish the prospect of an integrated HD receiver/DVR combo.
The construction of my house is stick, stucco, and tile roof. The orientation toward the SE mountains would be excellent with no obstruction. The house is on the east end of a cul de sac next to a greenway. A problem may occur if the lot across the street (now empty) sprouts a 2 story house.
I have a 1 story being built.

Thanks for the warm welcome to this forum!
I'm looking forward to my relocation!

I see rainbows
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post #314 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by EJKrew
Which is better? DirecTV or COX ? Is the quality difference noticeable?

You just had to open that can of worms, didn't you?

They both have their pros/cons and a lot depends on what services you anticipate getting. I'll be up front and tell you I'm a cable guy, never had satellite, never had a Tivo. But, AFAIK the HD PQ on cable, satellite, and OTA is virtually the same. There can be minor differences due to different tuners/HDTVs, etc., but I think you'd be hard pressed to quantify a difference across the board. This is not to say that some folks don't see differences when switching from OTA to cable to satellite, but most of the posts I've read say they are all the same.

Now, one of the biggest drawbacks to cable is the PQ for the analog channels (HGTV, Food Network, and the like). Until cable starts broadcasting all digital, analog PQ will suffer and if you watch a lot of that, you may not be happy with cable for that reason.

The other drawback can be price. I have broadband internet, telephone, and total cable (HBO, SHO, MAX, et al, including HD DVR) and I pay less than I would with satellite (without HD DVR), Qwest telephone, and Qwest DSL (lower speed), but if you don't want the complete package, then satellite and separate internet/telephone services will probably be cheaper on a monthly basis.

One of the biggest drawbacks to satellite is the initial cost (I believe it's still about $400 to upgrade to HD) that has to be amortized into the overall monthly cost.

The other major drawback is the $1,000 cost of the HD Tivo. Even with some service discounts, it's still in the $650-$700 range and that is a lot IMO. To be sure, the HD Tivo is much better than the SA8300HD DVR provided by Cox, particularly the Wish List feature, but I timeshift 20 hours of HD just fine with Cox.
Quote:
The DirecTV dish can be fitted with an OTA HD antenna, correct?

Yes, but most folks do not get good reception with that type of antenna and most folks say it's over-priced.
Quote:
Does DTV give you a choice regarding the type of tuner?

I do not know, but I'm sure a phone call will get you an answer and I think it all depends on how much you want to pay.
Quote:
I am presently a DTV subscriber in Oregon, SD only. I'm hooked on TIVO timeshifting and would relish the prospect of an integrated HD receiver/DVR combo.

If you are hooked on Tivo and not just timeshifting, my guess is that you would probably be happier staying with DirecTV (though the $1,000 outlay to time-shift HD is steep in my book). I suggest you contact their retention folks and see what kind of a deal you can work out with them to upgrade to HD service when your house is finished. If you are simply hooked on time-shifting and not specifically the Tivo unit/interface, you could always try Cox and cancel it if you were unhappy with it. Once you get sucked into satellite, you're hooked for at least a year, so it's a bit expensive to try something else after the fact.

I'm sure others will provide additional comments and things to consider.

You didn't mention what brand/model HDTV you have or intend to buy or what type of HD programming you would subscribe to. That all makes a difference when discussing the pros and cons of OTA, cable, and satellite. Right now, Dish is the cheapest and DirecTV is getting ready to start adding HD locals and you may not even need an antenna here by the end of the year.

Cheers, Dave
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post #315 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 04:15 PM
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Dave,
We like to watch the networks, I'm into sports.
Does COX offer NFLSunday ticket? MLB Extra Innings?
I haven't yet purchased an HDTV but I'm leaning toward a Sony XS series 60" LCD panel projection set.
We do like to watch the SD satellite, eg DIY, FX, HGTV, A&E etc.
My first SAT was with Dish( I switched to DirTV for the MLB Extra innings package availability) and their DVR was just fine. TIVO spoils you with its Season Pass and the convenience of automatic recording.
Losing the $5 / mo charge would not be a bad thing as well as saving $700 on an HD DirecTV/TIVO box at Mpeg 2 compression when Mpeg 4 is on the horizon.
I would subscribe to the 'full meal HD deal' and rolling cable modem and phone into it sounds like the way to go!
GOT to have high speed internet!
I'm sort of a technofreak and returning to a standard (non TIVO)HD DVR would not be distressing.

I have read on another forum that COX doesn't have their HDMI/DVI and Firewire ports enabled on their decoders. Should this be a concern? Or, do you think that COX will enable them in the future?
And COX will bring more Network HD to their service shortly??
What Networks are presently broadcast in HD on COX??

Technology is a double edged sword, wait until it improves past the bleeding edge and you miss the present while always lusting for the future!!!!
I want it ALL with built in upgrades!!

Ed

Edited to add a few missed thoughts!

I see rainbows
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post #316 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sytyguy
I live in Surprise (SCG), and I have Directv, and receive the locals via OTA, both SD and HD, with very good reception.

HTH,

Rich

Thanks Rich,
Where are you in Surprise?
I'll be near the intersection of Waddell and Reems. Would this site compare to your location for recption?

I see rainbows
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post #317 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 05:11 PM
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Dish offers their DVR 921 and a 34" direct view HDTV for $1,000. This is not a bad deal for someone just getting into HD. I was considering this deal and using the 34 HDTV for the bedroom. I was with Dish for 9 years, however I decided to try Voom because of their large number of HD channels, was that a BIG mistake! The SD signals look like crap and the HD context (if you want to call half or more of what they offer in HD, HD) looks nowhere near as good as with OTA HD broadcasts. They cram to many signals on one satellite and have to compress them far too much.
They play a lot of movies that the original AR was originally 4:3, and then they stretch and zoom them to fit a 16:9 AR. They end up looking like crap. These are far from what HD is, but they promote having a lot of HD channels just to get you connected. They don't even have a UHF remote. The installer never even knew what it was and when I called customer service, they did not even know what it was. This was another misleading thing about Voom. When I first check out pictures of their receivers online, they pictured a place on the back of the receiver where an UHF antenna goes, but the remote is only IR, go figure!
My signal strength is in the 90s, and the installer double-checked all connections. I called the installer the next day and asked him about the bad reception and he then admitted to me (of coarse after I signed the contract) that it was because of the high compression.
Now I am stuck with Voom for 6 months, what a waste. I can only hope they go under very shortly, which there is talk they just might do. They have already stop taking new installs, and this was just a few days after my install.


Don
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post #318 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by starscomeout
Dish offers their DVR 921 and a 34" direct view HDTV for $1,000. This is not a bad deal for someone just getting into HD. I was considering this deal and using the 34 HDTV for the bedroom. I was with Dish for 9 years, however I decided to try Voom because of their large number of HD channels, was that a BIG mistake! The SD signals look like crap and the HD context (if you want to call half or more of what they offer in HD, HD) looks nowhere near as good as with OTA HD broadcasts. They cram to many signals on one satellite and have to compress them far too much.
They play a lot of movies that the original AR was originally 4:3, and then they stretch and zoom them to fit a 16:9 AR. They end up looking like crap. These are far from what HD is, but they promote having a lot of HD channels just to get you connected. They don't even have a UHF remote. The installer never even knew what it was and when I called customer service, they did not even know what it was. This was another misleading thing about Voom. When I first check out pictures of their receivers online, they pictured a place on the back of the receiver where an UHF antenna goes, but the remote is only IR, go figure!
My signal strength is in the 90s, and the installer double-checked all connections. I called the installer the next day and asked him about the bad reception and he then admitted to me (of coarse after I signed the contract) that it was because of the high compression.
Now I am stuck with Voom for 6 months, what a waste. I can only hope they go under very shortly, which there is talk they just might do. They have already stop taking new installs, and this was just a few days after my install.


Don

The Dish offer is a great one, thumbs up to a bedroom 34" monitor!
I've been tempted by VOOM, thanks for the 'compression' comments!

Funny thing I received an email from VOOM on friday to subscribe!
I know that they are barely hanging on!

I see rainbows
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post #319 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EJKrew
Funny thing I received an email from VOOM on friday to subscribe!
I know that they are barely hanging on!

They may have started taking new accounts again. It was a couple weeks back that I heard that they had stop taking new accounts when I spoke to the guy who installed my system and he told me that Voom was not doing any new installs, then the day after that someone mentioned on AVS they were not doing anymore installs. They must being trying to keep it going, but from the sounds of it I doubt they will make it.

Don
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post #320 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 08:29 PM
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Voom is going to go under, it's only a matter of time. They are losing money - a lot of money. Just overestimated it's market - like the ill-fated Iridium project of a few years back.
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post #321 of 11228 Old 03-13-2005, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Cox does not offer NFL Sunday Ticket, they do offer MLB Extra Innings. Their DVR also does not offer Season Pass, though various Tivo-like features are in the works. Problem is most take an IPG update and there is no word on when that might occur here.

The HDMI ports are active though some folks seem to have problems with their particular setups from time to time. Don't always know if it's an HDTV issue, a bad tuner, or operator error. Whether or not that would be a problem for you is hard to say. Since you are leaning toward the Sony LCD, chances are you would see a slight improvement in PQ with HDMI vs Component, but Component is certainly quite good. In many cases, the PQ is simply "different" (color, contrast, etc.) and may not really be any "better", especially after you re-tweak your settings.

Firewire posts are not yet active on the SA8300HD DVR, but they are active on the SA3250HD, a non-DVR tuner. Unless you are archiving to a D-VHS recorder or something like that, Firewire should not be a concern.

So, based on what you've been saying, I still believe DirecTV would be your best choice, mostly because of the Sunday Ticket and other exclusive sports-related packages. My choice would remain Cox simply because of the outrageous cost of the HD Tivo. I can overlook inferior analog PQ (since most of what I watch is now HD) and don't much care about all the extra sports, but I can't do without the HD DVR and broadband internet.

Of course, you can still get Cox internet (which includes basic cable) and telephone service in addition to DirecTV, but you really need to do some price checking on the Cox and Qwest websites to see what works best for you. Cox online cable rates leave something to be desired because they are a bit misleading unless you know hpw things really work. They can be a good guide for comparisons, but they don't often correlate to the actual bill and I recommend calling them to get more exact prices for what you want.

Also, I'm quite sure you'll be able to get OTA reception, but it may not be with a wraparound or attic antenna. Many folks start out trying the Zenith Silver Sensor indoor antenna and move up if that doesn't work. Winegard, Channel Master, and Radio Shack bowtie's seem to be the best choices. Multipath problems generally occur because of all the wire mesh they use here to hold the stucco on the outside of homes here, not necessarily because of tress, 2-story homes, etc. The only reason I mention it is because you mentioned an attic antenna and that means the signal will have to go through the wire mesh, etc.

Cheers, Dave
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post #322 of 11228 Old 03-14-2005, 01:02 AM
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The good old sat vs. cable war. Dave and I have had many a discussion on this very topic. I will be up front and say that I am a sat guy.

NFL Sunday Ticket is exclusive to DirecTV until 2010. You can read more about that here: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....794&highlight=. The rumor is that all NFL Sunday Ticket games will be in HD next season. We will have to wait and see on that one.

As far as being worried about buying an HD-Tivo and it being incompatible with MPEG-4 in the coming months/years, no need to worry. The word from those in the know here on AVS and other forums, say that DirecTV will be upgrading HD subs for free. Meaning if you have an HD-Tivo or other D* HD STB, they will replace it with a new MPEG-4 DVR/STB for free.

With regard to OTA reception there is no guarantee that you will be able to receive locals OTA. I wish I could say for sure that you will but the only true way to see if you can get OTA locals is to put up an antenna and see. I would guess that you will have no big problems receiving local signals but you never know until you try. I always tell people to start small, either use rabbit ears or the gold standard for indoor antennas, the Silver Sensor. If those don't work for you or if you want to receive Tucson locals as well as PHX locals then move up to an outdoor antenna. Use www.antennaweb.org as a starting point for what antenna is best for you based on your location and which channels you want to receive.

I say call or checkout the websites of Cox, DirecTV, Dish, and Voom. See which one has the best deal going and then make your decision. Good luck and keep us posted!

"With the advent of high-definition television, home viewers will see actors with extreme clarity and detail. Thus they will demand the stars of "Sex and the City" change their names to "The Golden Girls." -Conan O'Brien, In The Year 2000: Ted Danson Edition-
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post #323 of 11228 Old 03-14-2005, 05:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by EJKrew
Thanks Rich,
Where are you in Surprise?
I'll be near the intersection of Waddell and Reems. Would this site compare to your location for recption?

Actually, you are probably better located than I. I live in Sun City Grand (SCG).

I have been a Directv subscriber since '99, and when we moved here I first subd to Cox with all their services including HD, just because it was easy. I found, like Dave mentioned, that Cox's SD PQ sucked in comparision to Directv, so I switched back to Directv under my wife's name, and received 3 stb, multi-channel SAT dish, plus free installation, plus some other benefits, like all the premiums for x amount of months. After 1 month I canceled 2 stb boxes, since I had previously purchased the LG-3200a HD box, which I currently use for both Directv and OTA SD, HD. Oh, and you get to keep the extra boxes for backup. You may be able to do even better since you COULD be a BRAND NEW SUBSCRIBER, with the packages they offer now.

As far as hooking up for a OTA antenna, just make sure you have some extra coaxial cable coming in from the outside. I hooked up my Winegard Squareshooter right next to the SAT dish, and used one of the wires that was previously used for one of the other STB that I canceled, and hooked it up to the antenna. I would highly recommend installing a structured wiring box that centralizes all of your video needs, and incorporate a 3X8 amplified distribution box inside, so as to simply wiring connections, and it also simplifies wiring changes.

If you woud like to see what I am talking about PM me.

Oh, and I don't care what anyone says, HD OTA has a far better PQ than either Cox or Directv.

HTH,

Rich
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post #324 of 11228 Old 03-14-2005, 11:50 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Cox does not offer NFL Sunday Ticket or MLB Extra Innings.

Cox DOES offer MLB Extra Innings, along with the NBA, MLS and (when relevant) NHL packages. It is only the NFL deal that is missing, due to DirecTV's exclusive arrangement.

Paul
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post #325 of 11228 Old 03-14-2005, 01:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Shink
Voom is going to go under, it's only a matter of time. They are losing money - a lot of money. Just overestimated it's market - like the ill-fated Iridium project of a few years back.

Interesting comments considering that I've been watcihing the Voom issues closely since I moved here and opted to use Voom and place my DirecTV on hiatus. I found that if you move, DirecTV will suspend your account for 9 months so that you don't have to worry about getting installed or taking a contract commitment hit by leaving them, Voom was a 6 month deal so it all worked out perfectly.

Now, the current developments with Voom are very hard to get a grasp over (you can't tell the players without a program), one day they site is closed, the next day there is a new site, the day after the original site is live and all is well and on the following day they add 5 new channels.

Before they are discounted out, they have until 3/31 for Charles Dolan to get it together, even after that there is still a deal in the works for Dish to pickup the provider and it goes on and on... you can catch up on all this stuff at: http://www.satelliteguys.us/forumdisplay.php?f=83
and it makes for some interesting reading...

As for the Iridum comment, they are still in business, remember that the were losing money (very DejaVu for Voom) and found a way for the Federal Government to pickup the service... last I checked they are still online and in use... point being, you never know -OR- don't kick a guy when he's down.

Besides, in a scant few months, TV will be digital, HD is the future, Dolan should more be considered a "Pioneer or visionary" not a fool for a venture like Voom. There is a market, we're all proof of it, the issue is MARKETING or the lack of it. When was the last time you were at Sears and really considered a satellite purchase from them. Aside from the Voom.com web, that's about the only way to get the service, you can walk into Radio Shack and get DirecTV, DISH etc or just lookin the news papers and there are a ton of deals with providers so Voom, until they get a better marketning plan will never be mainstream, but it will happen eventually.

A Happy Voom'er - Miguel
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post #326 of 11228 Old 03-14-2005, 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by lombana
...Dolan should more be considered a "Pioneer or visionary" not a fool for a venture like Voom.

I have never figured out why people see Dolan as a pioneer and or a visionary? He was not the first person to put channels up on sat. He was not the first person to put HD channels up on sat. Voom was not even the first sat service to be dedicated to HD. Unity Motion, anyone? Miguel my comments are not directed just at you but at everyone that claims Dolan as a pioneer or visionary. No doubt he is a very smart man but with respect to Voom, he is not a visionary or pioneer.

"With the advent of high-definition television, home viewers will see actors with extreme clarity and detail. Thus they will demand the stars of "Sex and the City" change their names to "The Golden Girls." -Conan O'Brien, In The Year 2000: Ted Danson Edition-
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post #327 of 11228 Old 03-14-2005, 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Soundmaster10.2
I have never figured out why people see Dolan as a pioneer and or a visionary? He was not the first person to put channels up on sat. He was not the first person to put HD channels up on sat. Voom was not even the first sat service to be dedicated to HD. Unity Motion, anyone? Miguel my comments are not directed just at you but at everyone that claims Dolan as a pioneer or visionary. No doubt he is a very smart man but with respect to Voom, he is not a visionary or pioneer.

I should have quantified something, I think or feel that the main reason for Chuck being a visionary was that at a time (c1970's) when the movement was "FREE" he envisioned a concept for people to pay for televsion, hence HBO was born. If this thing were to take off similar to the HBO venture, then the title fits.
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post #328 of 11228 Old 03-16-2005, 07:50 AM
 
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The HD quality on Fox last night, American Idol, was very good, for a change.

No drop outs video or audio.

Though at one point early, there seemed to be the slight audio/video synch issue.

But it's about time.
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post #329 of 11228 Old 03-16-2005, 10:38 AM
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I haven't noticed any HD issues with Fox the last couple weeks on their OTA broadcast of American Idol. I actually think it's been the second best weekly show out there in terms of video quality (next to Jay Leno).
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post #330 of 11228 Old 03-16-2005, 04:36 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by PhdWho
The HD quality on Fox last night, American Idol, was very good, for a change.

No drop outs video or audio.

Though at one point early, there seemed to be the slight audio/video synch issue.

But it's about time.


I heard on TV this morning that the show was NOT live last night. The story I heard was that they taped it to make certain that all the songs fit in the one hour time slot.

So I think we'll have to wait until they go live again before we know whether or not they fixed the dropout problems.
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