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post #1081 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyoteaz View Post

Excellent, another D*/E*/Cox debate. My 2 cents: Cox has the best HD PQ, and carries all local HD channels, so it's the best choice if you can't put up an antenna. SD PQ ranges from very good on the digital premiums, to OK on the digital basic, to marginal and worse on the analog channels, depending on the quality of your cable and distance from the box. Cox also carries FSNAZ HD and OLNHD (when available) and TNTHD, so you still get a lot of hockey and basketball in HD. D* has Sunday Ticket, so it wins for football, although you'll pay dearly for it. D* won't start HD LIL in Phoenix until probably 2Q06, and I don't think they've announced if they plan to carry all channels or just the big 4. Cox also has high-speed Internet, so if you hate Qwest with a passion like I do, it makes a lot of sense to stick with Cox for everything.

I'm starting to hate Qwest b/c they don't even offer the 7mb download in Chandler. They only offer the 1.5 on the dowload. The only reason I stay with them is b/c of the half-off price for a year. As far as Direct offering all of the hd locals in Phoenix, they have started in Detroit. I would assume that they'll do the same here. Direct leadership has implied that the local sports stations will be added in markets as well. All in all, more competition is good for we the consumers.

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post #1082 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFH View Post

I'm starting to hate Qwest b/c they don't even offer the 7mb download in Chandler.

Sorry to rub it in... 9mbps download from Cox in Phoenix. It is very sweet to see the meter stuck at 1.1MBps (that's MegaByte).
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post #1083 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb7oeb View Post

Should be 2 cables with Directv and 1 cable with dishnetwork. You can use a diplexor to combine ota with the sat cable and dish pro plus allows two tuner units to be used with one cable.

I prefer Dishnetwork because they will allow subscription to the HD channels without buying any SD.

I think the 2 cables were referring to the dual tuners on the DTivos. But you are correct, you can use a diplexor with DTV also to carry in the OTA signal. We were very lucky the house has about 50 miles of RG6QS and Cat5 running through it. Amazing they're finally thinking of this now.

But we are using COX internet. Cannot stand even saying that "Q" word.
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post #1084 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 08:56 AM
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I just wanted to add that I've been a TiVo/DirecTV guy back when we all couldn't wait for the software update to activate the dual tuners. That series 1 box is still recording happily in my master bedroom while the HDTiVo is now in the theater. Lifetime subscription, etc.. so I'm not biased at all.

Picture quality is fantastic, especially on HDNet and DiscoveryHD... since our Fox station is O&O, I usually record Fox programs off Los Angeles' HD Fox feed. I've had the HDTiVo for about a year now and have had zero issues and am extremely happy with it. If it were $1000 today, I'd buy it all over again.

As far as the MPEG4 rollout goes, I'm looking forward to it. Sure, I'll miss my beloved TiVo interface, but technology marches on and this is a necessary step to pave the way for more HD content.

If I were making an objective decision from scratch, the best thing to do would be to try the different packages on for size. See if you can track down a friend or two with the different HD options (Cox, Dish, DirecTV) and see what you think.

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post #1085 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyDora View Post

Sorry to rub it in... 9mbps download from Cox in Phoenix. It is very sweet to see the meter stuck at 1.1MBps (that's MegaByte).


Rub it why don't ya! I keep asking Qwest when they're going to get me 7mbs and all I keep hearing is soon. When is soon? Next year? It took a year for them to even offer DSL in Chandler. I thought I was living in the boondocks when I moved here and there was no DSL. I was with Cox using there 254 up and down but that was too slow. The prices for the higher speeds were high. I now need to reaccess and see what Cox prices are now that they offer 9mb.

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post #1086 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFH View Post

Rub it why don't ya! I keep asking Qwest when they're going to get me 7mbs and all I keep hearing is soon. When is soon? Next year? It took a year for them to even offer DSL in Chandler. I thought I was living in the boondocks when I moved here and there was no DSL. I was with Cox using there 254 up and down but that was too slow. The prices for the higher speeds were high. I now need to reaccess and see what Cox prices are now that they offer 9mb.

Give COX a call. Qwest doesn't seem interested even in new builds. They keep putting in repeaters so even in a new development DSL isn't available or if it is, it's at the minimum speed. Maybe they've given up. COX on the other hand can give you some speed. I just don't like the bit where if you get internet only it costs a fortune but if you get COX cable it's almost free.
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post #1087 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffpack View Post

Give COX a call. Qwest doesn't seem interested even in new builds. They keep putting in repeaters so even in a new development DSL isn't available or if it is, it's at the minimum speed. Maybe they've given up. COX on the other hand can give you some speed. I just don't like the bit where if you get internet only it costs a fortune but if you get COX cable it's almost free.

Yeah, when I talked to Qwest all they kept telling me was that they're putting in repeaters. I tell that this is a metro area of 3.5 mill and you can't get DSL to the whole area. I bring up that a metro of 1.35 on Florida's east coast that is served by one of the other Baby Bells has DSL that is available to everyone in the area and the highest speeds are also available to everyone. What is Qwest's problem with the Phoenix area?

I have a serious problem with Cox's pricing plan. I went to their site today and $45 dollars for a non-cable customer is high. I'll reeval after my year of half-price DSL is over. Maybe by that time Qwest will have introduced 3mpbs to Chandler.

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post #1088 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 01:46 PM
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Off Topic. I'm looking for a quality electronics shop in Phoenix (Chanlder/Mesa hopfully) that is capable of motherboard soldering. I need a prom removed from a MOBO and a socket soldered in it's place.

Thanks for any recommendations.
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post #1089 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFH View Post

I'll reeval after my year of half-price DSL is over. Maybe by that time Qwest will have introduced 3mpbs to Chandler.

I was living in North Scottsdale (FLW and Raintree) in a 10 year old subdivision. DSL is not available there at all. No options. I wouldn't expect anything from Q soon. As I said before, they don't care.

When you consider the growth in Chandler and Gilbert, I'd guess Q is doing the minimum just to get phone service to these new homes.
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post #1090 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 02:07 PM
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Man... if $45/mo seems like a lot to you for 9mbps, I seriously overpaid for my old dual channel ISDN setup. I think the router (ascend pipeline 75) was $500ish and I was paying $70/mo in addition to ISP charges and set up fees... all for dual channel 128k bliss!

-Waldorf
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post #1091 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

That's a good point. If there is no ROI, then why do we have to suffer with commercial inserts, some very poorly done I might add, on any digital/HD local channels?...

Two reasons come to mind.

Since most HD is simulcast with SD, the operators can basicaly ignore the playlist for HD, since the content is virtually the same. The way most stations do this is by running one playlist under automation for both channels with auxillary events that allow the DT channel to either accept the local SD signal upconverted, or the HD content when it is available. Since the timing is the same for both program streams, under automation this is pretty easy to do using just the infrastructure and operators needed for the SD. IOW, their job tasks don't increase significantly. The end result is that when local spots or local content airs on SD, it also automatically appears on the DT channel. But, the way certain DT channels burp going in and out of local, even if they COULD sell the time, most would need make goods, as you lose the first or last seconds of a lot of spots.

But not everyone is automated, or wants to pay the freight for adding the DT channel to their automation, and those folks so far have either upconverted everything, or simply throw the switch at either end of the prime block. In that scenario you either get the same content as SD except in SD (or less) quality, or you get HD during prime with different content where the local spots would normally appear.

The other thing is that those TV sales execs and clients who are HD-aware both sort of have an unspoken agreement that if they buy/sell the SD time, the HD time will be automatic, as a freebie. It might not have tangible value as avails that can be sold, but is has intrinsic value for clients who understand that there are high-dollar viewers that are able to see their cms on DT (assuming they don't simply throw the switch, as above).

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post #1092 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldorf View Post

Man... if $45/mo seems like a lot to you for 9mbps, I seriously overpaid for my old dual channel ISDN setup. I think the router (ascend pipeline 75) was $500ish and I was paying $70/mo in addition to ISP charges and set up fees... all for dual channel 128k bliss!

I wish the 9mbs was 45. the 4mbs is 45 and the 9mbs is 64.95.

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post #1093 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kb7oeb View Post

Why couldn't they insert commercials? I know they won't do it but I don't think thats the cause...

They could. Inserting commercials into DT cleanly is one of the most difficult challenges for a local station. There are two ways to do it (that actually work properly). One is to use a MPEG splicer, as they do at the FOX affils, and the other is to decode, insert, and re-encode, which can degrade the PQ. Otherwise you get the characteristic pixellation seen on some of our other channels as they go in and out of DT local. It is also very difficult to do without automation.

So it is both a significant technical challenge and expensive, and means more operators and engineering staff. If you don't simulcast or if you add secondary program streams, the costs increase exponentially. It all comes down to resources and cost/benefit strategy. Right now it is hard to justify the costs for such meager returns, so it might take a while for everyone to get on the bus.

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post #1094 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolffpack View Post

I think the 2 cables were referring to the dual tuners on the DTivos.

The post I was replying to said you needed 3, 2 for sat 1 for ota.
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post #1095 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 02:58 PM
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I would like to solicit some input from some of you knowledgeable Cox fan boys out there .

As you might know, I am a devoted HD Tivo fan, and that will likely not change. But, my mother (who does not have line-of-sight or DBS, currently) would like to make the switch to HD. We're looking at a Sony A20 for her, which has HDMI, ATSC, and component inputs. She currently has Cox digital and the S-A SD PVR (+phone +broadband). We are thinking that the best upgrade path might be Cox HD and the 8300.

So, maybe those who have paid more attention to this option than I have can either encourage us or point out the error of our intentions. I assume the 8300 will connect just fine to the A20. But I have some basic questions:

About how much more would she be looking at a month for the 8300 and Cox HD pak vs. what she has now, which is cox digital and the SD PVR? What if she kept both boxes? Are there discrete remote codes so you can put them in the same room, or would she be better off relegating the SD box to the bedroom?

I assume all locals are in that pak (other than 45.1 and 3.1). Do they have TNT-HD yet? (big hoops fan).

How many hours of recording does this PVR have?

Does it have multiple tuners?

How about native passthrough? Or must you pick an output rez and stick with it?

I assume you can record SD Cox channels on the HD box, if you wish to?

How does it corrrespond in reliability to, say, Tivo? I assume the interface is very similar to the S-A SD PVR?

TIA for any help you can offer. I was kind of waiting for the NDS/MPEG-4/DTV HD LIL situation to settle down first, but she's ready now, and that's a year or so away.

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post #1096 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFH View Post

I have a serious problem with Cox's pricing plan. I went to their site today and $45 dollars for a non-cable customer is high.

That's because they want you to partake of their other digital services too in order to get a further discount. It's all in the marketing, just like D* "giving" hardware away for a 2-year commitment to certain levels of service. Depending on what you want, Cox can be cheaper and still is for me (cable, internet, phone). And, since you can't get that speed from Q, I guess it's really not too high, is it?

Cheers, Dave
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post #1097 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCat View Post

About how much more would she be looking at a month for the 8300 and Cox HD pak vs. what she has now, which is cox digital and the SD PVR? What if she kept both boxes? Are there discrete remote codes so you can put them in the same room, or would she be better off relegating the SD box to the bedroom?

The 8300 is $15/mo plus $5/mo for DVR service ($20/mo total). I don't know what she is paying now for the SD DVR, but I think it's like $10/mo.

Quote:


I assume all locals are in that pak (other than 45.1 and 3.1). Do they have TNT-HD yet? (big hoops fan).

Yes and yes, there are now a total of 15 HD channels available and they are all free, though you do have to subscribe to the Premium package if you want that Premium HD channel (HBO, SHO, and STZ).

Quote:


How many hours of recording does this PVR have?

About 20 hours of HD content, depending on channel/program bit rate which varies widely here in Phoenix from around 10Mbps to over 17Mbps.

Quote:


Does it have multiple tuners?

Yes, 2 and you can watch a recorded program while recording 2 others.

Quote:


How about native passthrough? Or must you pick an output rez and stick with it?

Yes, but you select the formats you want passed based upon what the TV will accept.

Quote:


I assume you can record SD Cox channels on the HD box, if you wish to?

Even analog if you are so inclined.

Quote:


How does it corrrespond in reliability to, say, Tivo? I assume the interface is very similar to the S-A SD PVR?

I've had mine since day 1 and it's been flawless. The interface is NOT Tivo and I can only assume it is similar to the SD DVR. It interfaces with the IPG to schedule recordings, etc., if that's what you are asking. I have never missed a recording that I couldn't trace to data in the IPG being wrong and it's been over a year for that. There have been some problems for some folks with the time change last weekend, but that is not something that is ongoing and I don't know how extensive it really was since I lost nothing. here is also an upgrade coming that will add some functionality to joining a recording in progress (they've come to terms with Tivo for some feature elements).

Quote:


TIA for any help you can offer. I was kind of waiting for the NDS/MPEG-4/DTV HD LIL situation to settle down first, but she's ready now, and that's a year or so away.

That's the great thing about cable, she can get the 8300 now and then switch later to D* if she is not happy or you bully her into submission. Try that with D* after 3-4 months of service.

Cheers, Dave
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post #1098 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 07:16 PM
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Thanks for letting me pick your brain, Dave. These are about the answers I expected, and it looks like it's a go for mom.

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post #1099 of 11171 Old 11-03-2005, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, as long as she doesn't have Tivo expectations of the 8300 like so many tend to do, I think she'll be just fine. If you need anything explained, I'll be more than happy to help out. If you think of the 8300 as a glorified VCR, you should be okay figuring things out.

Cheers, Dave
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post #1100 of 11171 Old 11-11-2005, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waldorf View Post

Man... if $45/mo seems like a lot to you for 9mbps, I seriously overpaid for my old dual channel ISDN setup. I think the router (ascend pipeline 75) was $500ish and I was paying $70/mo in addition to ISP charges and set up fees... all for dual channel 128k bliss!

Welp, I'd be happy if ANYONE (ISP that is) who could give me a STATIC IP address with a decent down speed, just so I can host my OWN email server. COX doesn't QWEST isn't available.

I'm in the Tatum & Deer Valley area. NORTH of Deer Valley, WEST of Tatum.

Thanks,
IOTP
HDTV via DirecTV MPEG4
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post #1101 of 11171 Old 11-12-2005, 12:15 AM
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Sprint Broadband (if visible) will but you would have to find someone with an active account willing to trade it to you.
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post #1102 of 11171 Old 11-12-2005, 08:10 AM
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Cox Business gives you a static IP, but I'm not sure they will allow you to host things on it. I bet Qwest Business would give you a static as well.
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post #1103 of 11171 Old 11-12-2005, 10:31 AM
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If he could get qwest it would be easy since many ISPs allow static ip. I know FastQ will give you a static ip with no blocked ports for $5 extra. But he said he couldn't get qwest and cox business is expensive.
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post #1104 of 11171 Old 11-14-2005, 04:51 PM
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Dear Paul,

I don't know how KGUN got the game. Here is a copy of what our booking order from the network says.

ABC's College Football"

Saturday, November 19, 2005

1:00:30 - 4:30 PM-ET/4:00 - 7:00 PM-PT


As a reminder, ABC Sports will televise the following
games on Saturday, November 19, 2005.


Eastern/Central/Mountain Stations (Except Arizona)

1:00:30 - 4:30 PM-ET Ohio State @ Michigan



Arizona and Pacific Stations

4:00 - 7:00 PM-PT California @ Stanford.

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Benjamin [mailto:]
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 1:49 PM
To: Diefendorf, Mac
Subject: Re: RE: Michigan-Ohio State Game, 11 am, Nov 19

How is it that KGUN in Tucson is showing the game? Per http://www.tucson.com/tv_times/ they are showing BOTH the early game AND the Cal/Stanford game.

> From: "Diefendorf, Mac"
> Date: 2005/11/14 Mon AM 09:51:12 EST
> To:
> Subject: RE: Michigan-Ohio State Game, 11 am, Nov 19
>
> Dear Paul,
>
> Thank you for your email. ABC is not offering us the early NCAA
> football game on Saturday November 19th. If we do not receive the
> game we cannot air it. I apologizer for any inconvenience this might have
caused you.
>
> ABC15 Programming
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Benjamin [mailto:]
> Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2005 3:34 PM
> To: programming@abc15.com
> Subject: FW: Michigan-Ohio State Game, 11 am, Nov 19
>
>
> The listings on your website show that you are planning to show "Home
Alone"
> instead of the Michigan/Ohio State football game. Please tell me that
> this is a mistake. It is not listed on ESPN Game Plan either...
>
> --

Paul
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post #1105 of 11171 Old 11-14-2005, 08:19 PM
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Did anyone else lose Ch 10 at 9 PM for the first half of Prision Break? Wasn't on 76.1 either.
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post #1106 of 11171 Old 11-15-2005, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronjon2 View Post

Did anyone else lose Ch 10 at 9 PM for the first half of Prision Break? Wasn't on 76.1 either.

Yep, only it was 8pm here in Phoenix for me. I had to watch the show in, *gasp*, SD.

I kept switching back to 710 to see if it was back, and finally it was. And then, Fox had two "bugs" on the screen at the same time for a while, one big one in the middle and the normal one, and then finally they took the wrong one off.

So, I guess somebody kicked a plug out somewhere.

Dennis
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post #1107 of 11171 Old 11-15-2005, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Well, as long as she doesn't have Tivo expectations of the 8300 like so many tend to do, I think she'll be just fine. If you need anything explained, I'll be more than happy to help out. If you think of the 8300 as a glorified VCR, you should be okay figuring things out.

The major thing I miss on the 8300HD that the TiVo has is the ability to skip 15 minutes ahead or back while in fast-forward or rewind mode.

The way it is, if you want to get to the middle of a 2 hour movie, you're gonna be waiting a lonnnng time to get there whether you start at the beginning or the end. With TiVo, it would just be 4 clicks in FF mode and you're there.

And man, why can't you stop watching a program at some point and then start watching it again later at the same point in the program? Oh that is so annoying! The only place you have the option of watching from where you left off is if you were watching a recording, hit Stop, and then that menu has the choice of continuing where you left off.

The best thing about the 8300HD? Two tuners. That is sweet.

Dennis
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post #1108 of 11171 Old 11-15-2005, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by djwilso View Post

Yep, only it was 8pm here in Phoenix for me. I had to watch the show in, *gasp*, SD.

I kept switching back to 710 to see if it was back, and finally it was. And then, Fox had two "bugs" on the screen at the same time for a while, one big one in the middle and the normal one, and then finally they took the wrong one off.

So, I guess somebody kicked a plug out somewhere.

Dennis

Thats why my 8300 didn't record it....bummer!

Donald

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post #1109 of 11171 Old 11-15-2005, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ronjon2 View Post

Did anyone else lose Ch 10 at 9 PM for the first half of Prision Break? Wasn't on 76.1 either.

The bad news was that there was a data converter issue that took KSAZ-DT off the air about 7:25.

But there was and is much good news. KSAZ immediately dispatched a cadre of technicians, who rectified the problem by 8:37. This may have fixed problems which have been giving them soft failures in the 31 transmitter for some time. And, at some point KSAZ expects to be able to feed COX and DBS vendors with a direct feed, meaning that OTA transmitter issues will no longer affect those viewers.

Also, "Prison Break" will be airing repeats of the previous week's ep at 7 PM on Mondays for the rest of the fall run (it goes on hiatus at the end of this month and does not return until May...maybe that last thing isn't such good news). So those who missed part of the original 8 PM ep this week can see lor record it at 7 PM next week. Those with DirecTV should also get the original eps at 10 PM on KTTV-DT LA 89 (that's how I kept from missing this one).

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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post #1110 of 11171 Old 11-15-2005, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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TomCat, way ahead of you, set it to record Monday at 7 last night already.

Cheers, Dave
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