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post #11101 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 02:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

(meaning it will encrypt the QAM-modulated signal)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

??? What encrypts the QAM-modulated signal? ClearQAM is not encrypted.

Yeah, Scott did kind of mixed things up a little there, but I understood him. ;) I'm sure he meant decrypt, but I'm also sure you're just going to say that's not the right term either, so Ill let you.


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post #11102 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 03:58 PM
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Looks like it. Yet, it finds Cox high channels that are test channels too. All of them are digital, for now.

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post #11103 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, if that's the case, I'm baffled. I mean, it's true enough that all the signals are being transmitted on the cable, but the channels you're suggesting (except for WGN) are encrypted and the specs on the website seem to indicate the device is just a standard ATSC, NTSC and Clear QAM tuner like the one in TVs. What you're saying is a mystery to me and I guess I'll just have to leave it at that. Take care.


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post #11104 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 05:01 PM
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QAM through COAX is not encrypted!

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post #11105 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

QAM through COAX is not encrypted!

Wow rolleyes.gif
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post #11106 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 07:32 PM
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Paul you saved my sanity. I almost abandoned WMC7 but its the the digital QAM line up is messed up. And why would cox fix it? They only want to make more money.
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post #11107 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 07:33 PM
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Wow rolleyes.gif

I KNOW WOOT. I'm so happy for this. It might not always be this way but it is right now
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post #11108 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I KNOW WOOT. I'm so happy for this. It might not always be this way but it is right now

So you're also saying Cox is sending all channels in the clear? I just did a rescan and I don't see them, so please elaborate.


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post #11109 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoninpa View Post

I KNOW WOOT. I'm so happy for this. It might not always be this way but it is right now
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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

So you're also saying Cox is sending all channels in the clear? I just did a rescan and I don't see them, so please elaborate.

I also do not see any HD channels that are in the Clear other than the Locals, WGN HD and Cox7HD. My feed is from the Chandler headend.
Everything else is 480i (4:3) NTSC or 480i (4:3) Digital

Please provide some ClearQAM HD channel numbers, Like
WGN HD = 79-3
Cox7HD = 125-683

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post #11110 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 09:52 PM
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Give me a break, pal. If you want to go to an ENT because I use terms you don't like, you go right ahead, I believe they can both pull things out of places.

If I was going in that direction, I would have used proctologist.
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I never called Channel 5 Clear QAM

No? You said "Cox broadcasts Ch 5, Ch 5.1 and Ch 5.2 via Clear QAM. Ch 5 is analog"


Quote:
QAM is a specification, Clear QAM is simply a term.

A term used throughout the industry to mean non-encrypted digital cable programming. From www.qam.net/clearqam/

" If your TV has a QAM tuner you might be able to get local network channels in High Definition (HD) after running a channel scan on the TV with a direct co-ax connection. Look for the HD channels in the lower numbers that end in .1 like 6.1, 7.1, 13.1. These are referred to as ClearQAM channels."
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post #11111 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

(meaning it will encrypt the QAM-modulated signal)

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

??? What encrypts the QAM-modulated signal? ClearQAM is not encrypted.
Yeah, Scott did kind of mixed things up a little there, but I understood him. wink.gif I'm sure he meant decrypt, but I'm also sure you're just going to say that's not the right term either, so Ill let you.

OK. The TV neither encrypts or decrypts. The ClearQAM signal is not encrypted. The QAM tuner simply processes the QAM signal, like a NTSC tuner processes a NTSC signal.
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post #11112 of 11174 Old 05-25-2014, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

QAM through COAX is not encrypted!

Step BACK from the bong...
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post #11113 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post


If I was going in that direction, I would have used proctologist.
No? You said "Cox broadcasts Ch 5, Ch 5.1 and Ch 5.2 via Clear QAM. Ch 5 is analog"
A term used throughout the industry to mean non-encrypted digital cable programming. From www.qam.net/clearqam/

" If your TV has a QAM tuner you might be able to get local network channels in High Definition (HD) after running a channel scan on the TV with a direct co-ax connection. Look for the HD channels in the lower numbers that end in .1 like 6.1, 7.1, 13.1. These are referred to as ClearQAM channels."

Proctologist! Yeah. that's it. Thanks for another useless clarification that has no real value.

 

And, yes, that is exactly what I said and I've already explained why I used the term as a general reference for ALL the channels received via cable without a cable box. Feel free to keep posting your references, but I won't bore everyone by quoting many threads from various forums where others have used the term in the same way I have when discussing what they can and cannot get by connecting their cable to a Clear QAM-capable receiver like the one being discussed here. I'll continue to keep referring to ALL the channels those receivers pickup off the cable as Clear QAM. Everyone here, except you, knows exactly what I was talking about. Further clarifications from you will be ignored by me. Now if you can't understand that then I submit the smog has gotten to you over there in sunny San Diego. Thank you for your most important contributions to this discussion though. And you tell JM to step away from the bong? Sheesh......


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post #11114 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 06:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmmesch View Post

QAM through COAX is not encrypted!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasoninpa View Post


I KNOW WOOT. I'm so happy for this. It might not always be this way but it is right now

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post


Step BACK from the bong...

And how do you know Cox doesn't have something messed up or isn't testing something that's allowing them to receive a bunch of HD channels in the clear at the moment? Mind you, I'm skeptical, that's why I asked for a further explanation. Hopefully one of them will respond soon. Like Bryan, I'd like to see a list of some channel numbers from the Find Channels screen referenced in the WinTV manual.


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post #11115 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 06:51 AM
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Yeah, Scott did kind of mixed things up a little there, but I understood him. wink.gif I'm sure he meant decrypt, but I'm also sure you're just going to say that's not the right term either, so Ill let you.

Right, my bad. I was trying to explain that the QAM tuner in most newer HDTV will decode the QAM signal without a set top box. Sorry about that-my attorney was away for the holiday weekend and not available to review my posts.

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post #11116 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 12:16 PM
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I don't use WinTV. WMC is much more friendly and works well with remote the DVR came with.

And, none of you have to believe me. I'll just go on doing what I do until Cox limits it. I intend to leave Cox when Google comes anyway.

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post #11117 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 12:25 PM
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Proctologist! Yeah. that's it. Thanks for another useless clarification that has no real value.

I guess folks in Peoria are lacking a sense of humor. Now I know...
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Now if you can't understand that then I submit the smog has gotten to you over there in sunny San Diego. Thank you for your most important contributions to this discussion though.

Adding to your history of inaccuracy? Smog in San Diego? Maybe in inland North County. But not in San Diego proper, or where I live (a block from the ocean.) Closest I get to smog is when we get smoke from a brush fire. San Diego isn't even in the Top 25 worst U.S. cities as far as year round particle pollution is concerned. But I notice that Phoenix/Mesa/Glendale, Arizona, is #18. Strike three. And channel 5 still is not ClearQAM.
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post #11118 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

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Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post


Yeah, Scott did kind of mixed things up a little there, but I understood him. wink.gif I'm sure he meant decrypt, but I'm also sure you're just going to say that's not the right term either, so Ill let you.

Right, my bad. I was trying to explain that the QAM tuner in most newer HDTV will decode the QAM signal without a set top box. Sorry about that-my attorney was away for the holiday weekend and not available to review my posts.

So instead of "tune" you chose "encrypt"? You don't need an attorney. You need a dictionary.
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post #11119 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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So instead of "tune" you chose "encrypt"? You don't need an attorney. You need a dictionary.

No he doesn't, we have you for that.

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post #11120 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 12:47 PM
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So instead of "tune" you chose "encrypt"? You don't need an attorney. You need a dictionary.

And you need some restraint. Please, all you're doing is detracting from the essence of this forum.

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post #11121 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I guess folks in Peoria are lacking a sense of humor. Now I know...
Adding to your history of inaccuracy? Smog in San Diego? Maybe in inland North County. But not in San Diego proper, or where I live (a block from the ocean.) Closest I get to smog is when we get smoke from a brush fire. San Diego isn't even in the Top 25 worst U.S. cities as far as year round particle pollution is concerned. But I notice that Phoenix/Mesa/Glendale, Arizona, is #18. Strike three. And channel 5 still is not ClearQAM.

So now San Diego "proper" is the only part of San Diego I'm allowed to reference when I say San freakin' Diego? And I guess your definition of smog doesn't include "the closest-you-get-to ash from the fire"? Glad to know that. Maybe next time I'm over there, I'll pick up a new San Diego Compendium of Idiotic Statements. And if an umpire called balls and strikes the way you do, they'd be out of a job. Good thing you work for free. ROTFLMAO! How's that for a sense of humor (as you try to hide under the guise of just joking).

 

EDIT: BTW, even though your umpire skills leave a lot to be desired, I forfeit the game out of boredom. This is my last response to your terminology "corrections". Some of us could say the sky is blue and you'd have a problem with it, so while I've had some fun at your expense for a couple of days, I'm now bored and would rather more on the more interesting things. I actually want to help people here and learn things, not just spar over words. You are free to correct to your heart's content. I'm sure someone here appreciates your dedication to correcting those of us who are mere mortals.


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post #11122 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 02:01 PM
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Wow. I come back after two days to a scorching thread..............biggrin.gif
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post #11123 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow. I come back after two days to a scorching thread..............biggrin.gif

 

Hey, it's hot out and I went to the Memorial Day ceremonies out at the National Memorial Cemetery of Arizona this morning, so I need some light-hearted stuff. But, you'll see, I've had enough fun and am moving on. :)

 

BTW, the morning was refreshing with all the folks at the cemetery. John McCain got pretty heated over the VA debacle, but he kept politics out of it, and Jeff Flake offered some very nice comments too. One of the highlights though was Annalee Monroe talking about the Veterans Heritage Project, she did an excellent job.

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post #11124 of 11174 Old 05-26-2014, 09:32 PM
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So instead of "tune" you chose "encrypt"? You don't need an attorney. You need a dictionary.

And you need some restraint. Please, all you're doing is detracting from the essence of this forum.

Wow! Explaining that a TV QAM tuner doesn't "encrypt" the signal is "detracting from the essence of this forum" ??

I've always thought that AVS purveyed accurate information. Now I read here that channel 5 analog is ClearQAM and a TV's QAM tuner encrypts signals. The author of the former insists that he only wrote ClearQAM because it was easier to say, even though his posts rival "War and Peace" in length. I am also scolded that the two parties involved understand what each other meant. HEY! If the discussion is just for you two, use private messaging. Don't pollute AVS with inaccurate info just because you two understood each other. I am going to bow out now, before the moderator deletes this whole thread (which I'm sure DD would appreciate very much.)
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post #11125 of 11174 Old 05-27-2014, 05:03 AM
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Wow! Explaining that a TV QAM tuner doesn't "encrypt" the signal is "detracting from the essence of this forum" ??

I've always thought that AVS purveyed accurate information. Now I read here that channel 5 analog is ClearQAM and a TV's QAM tuner encrypts signals. The author of the former insists that he only wrote ClearQAM because it was easier to say, even though his posts rival "War and Peace" in length. I am also scolded that the two parties involved understand what each other meant. HEY! If the discussion is just for you two, use private messaging. Don't pollute AVS with inaccurate info just because you two understood each other. I am going to bow out now, before the moderator deletes this whole thread (which I'm sure DD would appreciate very much.)

No, insulting someone after they corrected themselves detracts from the essence of this forum.

Anyway, back to one of the points we were discussing earlier: I did notice that the CCI flag for the tuners in my Roamio is set to "N/A"...I take this to mean (I guess) that since I'm 100% OTA, copy flags aren't present? Anybody have info on this?

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post #11126 of 11174 Old 05-27-2014, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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No, insulting someone after they corrected themselves detracts from the essence of this forum.

Anyway, back to one of the points we were discussing earlier: I did notice that the CCI flag for the tuners in my Roamio is set to "N/A"...I take this to mean (I guess) that since I'm 100% OTA, copy flags aren't present? Anybody have info on this?

You just had to go and quote that dribble to make me read it even though I've now blocked the author. :) Oh well, you made a good point in rebuttal, not that it will do any good.

 

Anyway, here's what I found on the CCI field:

The application of the CCI flag was specified on page 30 of the FCC Plug and Play agreement. In the order, it is specified that over-the-air broadcast television channels must be set to be Copy Freely and that non-premium subscription programming has to be set to at least Copy Once, but of course can be set to Copy Freely. This is determined by the cable television provider and can vary from one market to the next (even if both markets are served by the same company). Some operators tend to set all programs as Copy Once, preventing further distribution after a single PVR recording, and others tend to set all programs as Copy Freely.

 

I didn't find anything in what I found for PSIP (the OTA data) relating to CCI, but AFAIK the CCI is used/set by cableco's. Since WGN is "copy freely", my guess is that Cox arbitrarily sets them to "copy once" for all cable networks unless an individual network requests something different.


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post #11127 of 11174 Old 05-27-2014, 07:28 AM
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You just had to go and quote that dribble to make me read it even though I've now blocked the author. smile.gif Oh well, you made a good point in rebuttal, not that it will do any good.

Anyway, here's what I found on the CCI field:
The application of the CCI flag was specified on page 30 of the FCC Plug and Play agreement. In the order, it is specified that over-the-air broadcast television channels must be set to be Copy Freely and that non-premium subscription programming has to be set to at least Copy Once, but of course can be set to Copy Freely. This is determined by the cable television provider and can vary from one market to the next (even if both markets are served by the same company). Some operators tend to set all programs as Copy Once, preventing further distribution after a single PVR recording, and others tend to set all programs as Copy Freely.

I didn't find anything in what I found for PSIP (the OTA data) relating to CCI, but AFAIK the CCI is used/set by cableco's. Since WGN is "copy freely", my guess is that Cox arbitrarily sets them to "copy once" for all cable networks unless an individual network requests something different.

Interesting. What does PSIP stand for?

Also, as mentioned, the CCI flag for my tuners was "N/A" not any of the Copy flag identifiers. I did check several OTA channels too.

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post #11128 of 11174 Old 05-27-2014, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Interesting. What does PSIP stand for?

Also, as mentioned, the CCI flag for my tuners was "N/A" not any of the Copy flag identifiers. I did check several OTA channels too.

PSIP stands for the Program and System Information Protocol (PSIP) for the ATSC digital television system for carrying metadata about each channel in the broadcast MPEG transport stream of a television station and for publishing information about television programs so that viewers can select what to watch by title and description. As I said, I don't believe it has a CCI field, those are for cable/sat, and TiVo simply adds the N/A to fill in the field on the diagnostics page.


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post #11129 of 11174 Old 05-27-2014, 09:16 AM
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ATSC actually does support a flag relating to copying. It was called the "broadcast flag" and some years ago there was talk the FCC would mandate its use. It was ultimately rejected. But some stations still transmit the broadcast flag (it's shown on RabbitEars with a fittingly red flag icon), and as of 10/2012, that included KPHO. It's listed in TSReader is the "Redistribution Control Descriptor" and is found in the PMT rather than the TVCT (PSIP).

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post #11130 of 11174 Old 05-27-2014, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the added info, Trip.


Cheers, Dave
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