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Local HDTV Info and Reception

kingpcgeek's Avatar kingpcgeek
09:40 AM Liked: 49
post #11161 of 11306
07-04-2014 | Posts: 1,069
Joined: Apr 2006
You can buy a DSL modem for under $30 on Amazon. Do remember the speeds you get from DSL are dependant on how far you are from a CO. While they like to advertise up to 40Mbps, I can only get 7Mbps where I live in Mesa. Since I can only get 7Mbps, I am not eligible for their TV service if I wanted.
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ
01:15 PM Liked: 90
post #11162 of 11306
07-07-2014 | Posts: 9,955
Joined: May 2003
Must be my year for making decisions. After deciding on the Tivo, I've bought a 2014 Prius 4 that will be delivered later this week, if it stays on schedule. Still waiting on the 70" M-series Vizio before I make a decision on a new TV though.
paulsaz's Avatar paulsaz
01:08 PM Liked: 14
post #11163 of 11306
07-09-2014 | Posts: 81
Joined: Apr 2001
SEC Network coming to Cox. Not sure which package will be required.

http://secsports.go.com/article/1119...d_secn_eml_cox
kingpcgeek's Avatar kingpcgeek
07:38 AM Liked: 49
post #11164 of 11306
07-10-2014 | Posts: 1,069
Joined: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsaz View Post
SEC Network coming to Cox. Not sure which package will be required.

http://secsports.go.com/article/1119...d_secn_eml_cox
Great another sports network I will never watch but will have to pay for.
domino92024's Avatar domino92024
01:29 PM Liked: 180
post #11165 of 11306
07-10-2014 | Posts: 3,511
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpcgeek View Post
Great another sports network I will never watch but will have to pay for.

Not if it is in a "Pak" like Sports Pak 1 or Sports Pak 2. Just don't subscribe to the "Pak."
paulsaz's Avatar paulsaz
02:22 PM Liked: 14
post #11166 of 11306
07-10-2014 | Posts: 81
Joined: Apr 2001
I was told SEC will be on the Sports and Info pak.
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ
06:10 AM Liked: 90
post #11167 of 11306
07-11-2014 | Posts: 9,955
Joined: May 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpcgeek View Post
Great another sports network I will never watch but will have to pay for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsaz View Post
I was told SEC will be on the Sports and Info pak.
If it does go into the S&I Pak, Cox will be doing something right for a change.


BTW, king, do you watch any sports at all? I only watch NHRA on ESPN2, I've even given up on NASCAR, especially the restrictor races.
kingpcgeek's Avatar kingpcgeek
12:20 PM Liked: 49
post #11168 of 11306
07-11-2014 | Posts: 1,069
Joined: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

BTW, king, do you watch any sports at all? I only watch NHRA on ESPN2, I've even given up on NASCAR, especially the restrictor races.
I love sports but I could care less about SEC sports.
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ
02:13 PM Liked: 90
post #11169 of 11306
07-11-2014 | Posts: 9,955
Joined: May 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpcgeek View Post
I love sports but I could care less about SEC sports.
I get it now. Looks like you'll be paying for it then.
Chere's Avatar Chere
09:37 PM Liked: 151
post #11170 of 11306
07-23-2014 | Posts: 1,214
Joined: Jan 2009
Looks like Tivo finally woke up and decided to sell their hardware including lifetime service for a reasonably discounted price.

http://dealnews.com/Ti-Vo-Roamio-Plu...0/1107769.html

I'm not sure but the ebay deals posted by Bryan a while back (if they're still around) might still be a better deal......
Bryan_CoxPHX's Avatar Bryan_CoxPHX
06:39 PM Liked: 22
post #11171 of 11306
07-24-2014 | Posts: 1,637
Joined: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
Looks like Tivo finally woke up and decided to sell their hardware including lifetime service for a reasonably discounted price.

http://dealnews.com/Ti-Vo-Roamio-Plu...0/1107769.html

I'm not sure but the ebay deals posted by Bryan a while back (if they're still around) might still be a better deal......
This Deal is temporary and will most likely end 07/31, also the Base Roamio and Minis are not included.
https://www.tivo.com/shop/promo/summ...2&SSAID=101512

The following site is the guy on ebay and Promo Code COMMUNITY will get you an additional $10 off the $49 price paid for the code.
http://spherular.com/
ajwees41's Avatar ajwees41
05:32 PM Liked: 11
post #11172 of 11306
08-02-2014 | Posts: 2,803
Joined: Sep 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsaz View Post
I was told SEC will be on the Sports and Info pak.

sports and Info is correct the Cox systems with SEC schools will have it in the basic tier.
paulsaz's Avatar paulsaz
06:52 PM Liked: 14
post #11173 of 11306
08-17-2014 | Posts: 81
Joined: Apr 2001
SEC is live on channel 1329, in the Sports and Info pack. Also have an SEC2 on 1339.
Charles O's Avatar Charles O
10:53 AM Liked: 43
post #11174 of 11306
08-18-2014 | Posts: 821
Joined: Nov 2002
For the OTA crowd there are 2 new sub-channels, Escape on KFPH on 35.4 and Grit on KTVW on 33.3.
Escape features movies with women in danger and Grit features movies with tough guys. Both channels seem to be native 16:9 but are being sent out letterboxed. They seem to be run by the same people running Bounce, so that may mean it will not be added to Cox...it also seems that Bounce is moving off My45 to KTVW at some point in the future.
az_r2d1's Avatar az_r2d1
04:29 PM Liked: 10
post #11175 of 11306
09-16-2014 | Posts: 103
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles O View Post
For the OTA crowd there are 2 new sub-channels, Escape on KFPH on 35.4 and Grit on KTVW on 33.3.
Escape features movies with women in danger and Grit features movies with tough guys. Both channels seem to be native 16:9 but are being sent out letterboxed. They seem to be run by the same people running Bounce, so that may mean it will not be added to Cox...it also seems that Bounce is moving off My45 to KTVW at some point in the future.
Wish I could get them.
I've been struggling with home built antenna. I had a terk branded antenna and it gave me some crappy results. The home built one (coat hangers) isn't much better.
Anyone got a good one for Phoenix market ? I am 25 miles from south mountain.
Scott Oakley's Avatar Scott Oakley
04:37 PM Liked: 79
post #11176 of 11306
09-16-2014 | Posts: 677
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by az_r2d1 View Post
Wish I could get them.
I've been struggling with home built antenna. I had a terk branded antenna and it gave me some crappy results. The home built one (coat hangers) isn't much better.
Anyone got a good one for Phoenix market ? I am 25 miles from south mountain.
I'm in a tricky reception area, northeast Phoenix, north of Squaw Peak and am using the HD7694P Platinum HD Series Antenna with excellent results.
Bryan_CoxPHX's Avatar Bryan_CoxPHX
06:14 PM Liked: 22
post #11177 of 11306
09-17-2014 | Posts: 1,637
Joined: Feb 2010
Cox AZ New HD Additions

1066 - MoviePlex HD - Essential Pak (not mapped correctly at the moment for me)
1365 - Encore Suspense HD - Movie Pak, Contour HD MPEG4/H.264
1366 - Encore Classic HD - Movie Pak, Contour HD MPEG4/H.264

It is odd that the two new Encore HD channels do not match the SD version 300 series numbering sequence.

Also
1040 - A&E HD - switching to Pacific feed
1061 - History HD - switching to Pacific feed
Charles O's Avatar Charles O
01:44 PM Liked: 43
post #11178 of 11306
09-18-2014 | Posts: 821
Joined: Nov 2002
Quote:
Originally Posted by az_r2d1 View Post
Wish I could get them.
I've been struggling with home built antenna. I had a terk branded antenna and it gave me some crappy results. The home built one (coat hangers) isn't much better.
Anyone got a good one for Phoenix market ? I am 25 miles from south mountain.
If can use a outdoor antenna the RCA Ant751 is the best all around performer for the valley assuming you have a clear shot at South Mountain. If your stuck with an indoor antenna, you need one that gets both VHF and UHF....if you have a window that faces South Mountain all the better. I use a Mohu Leaf for OTA channels and get all the main channels plus UniMas, MundoFOX and AZTV with no issues at about 20 miles from the transmitters.
Chere's Avatar Chere
01:47 AM Liked: 151
post #11179 of 11306
10-01-2014 | Posts: 1,214
Joined: Jan 2009
Is it just me or does 'Gotham' on fox has exceptional PQ? I was watching it last night and I was thinking holy cow it can give a blu ray disc a run for its money
Jeckler's Avatar Jeckler
09:49 PM Liked: 10
post #11180 of 11306
10-18-2014 | Posts: 18
Joined: Oct 2011
My house is 21 miles from South Mountain. I just got rid of Cox TV and home phone. I currently have a cheap RCA antenna that gets 38 channels. I was at Fry's today and picked up a refurbed Leaf Ultimate. The windows in the living room face pretty much due south. I re-scanned and got 48 channels, with the Leaf about 6.5 ft. off the ground. I then put it on the wall, facing due West about 8 ft off the ground and got ~47. Then I put it about 12ft off the ground facing 249ยบ and got 51. It seems I get every channel EXCEPT 10.1, Fox 10. I do get 10.2, but would like HD. I can't leave the antenna where it is though, because it's ugly as hell with the coax running diagonally across the wall. I really don't care, but the WAF is very low.
I'm planning on returning the Leaf and getting the ANT751, but would hate to go through all the trouble of mounting it on the roof and still not get Fox in HD. There are other antenna options available too, a couple Channel Master's at Fry's. I'm wondering if there is a problem with the 10.1 feed. At one point I swear I got it with the RCA, but didn't get 12.1 or .2, which I do get with the Leaf. I also get 8.1 and its subs too, so VHF "seems" to be OK.
I still have internet through Cox. I haven't taken the time to see if I get anything off that feed. I remember reading that they possibly used to, but not sure now.

EDIT: Here's my TVFool analysys:
http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2438c4bdfbdf6
ProjectSHO89's Avatar ProjectSHO89
06:22 AM Liked: 80
post #11181 of 11306
10-19-2014 | Posts: 2,787
Joined: Feb 2009
VHF reception with a Leaf will be hit or miss (mostly miss). Get an antenna with a real VHF element and eliminate the huge variability. There is no problem with the 10.1 feed, you have a problem with your antenna. FYI, virtual channel 10.2 is broadcast on one of the UHF stations, not on real channel 10.

The ANT751 or the Clearstream2v would be good choices of antennas that you can pick up in a local store.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
07:12 AM Liked: 12
post #11182 of 11306
10-19-2014 | Posts: 2,437
Joined: Jul 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeckler View Post
My house is 21 miles from South Mountain....

The windows in the living room face pretty much due south....

I then put it on the wall, facing due West...

t seems I get every channel EXCEPT 10.1, Fox 10. I do get 10.2,...

There are other antenna options available too, a couple Channel Master's at Fry's. I'm wondering if there is a problem with the 10.1 feed...
Lets see if we can break this down just a little bit.

An HD antenna is usually a better antenna if it is directional. These antennae you mention probably are somewhat directional, but not all that much, maybe about 3 dB greater from directly perpendicular to S.Mt. than they are parallel to S. Mt.

But it is also important to orient that beam to where the signal is coming from. Your TVFool data shows that you should face the antenna about 255-260 degrees, rather than 180 or 270, for best reception, generally.

What may be a larger factor here is when you did this testing. 10.1 has been at low power to allow adjacent tower work for a few days, and I think it is now at full power, so it might be good to do these tests again. But with a proper antenna, all of Mesa should see enough signal even at low power, so there is more going on here.

10.1 is a little lower in coverage than some other channels, but not significantly. The reason they placed 10.2 on KUTP 45's transmitter is because that channel has better coverage (The FOX network owns both stations), so they can reach more viewers. According to your TVFool data, you are seeing a raw signal about 5 dB below the strongest signal, and this is still ~3-4 dB higher than other stations you are getting OK, so there is probably a reflection or multipath issues involved here.

The first step is to orient the antenna directly perpendicular to S. Mt.

I have a similar setup, and am about as far as you are, but in Chandler with a 2nd-story window directly facing S. Mt. I also had to remove a strip of window film to get reception. What I am using for an antenna is a simple folded dipole that packs with a AVR for FM reception, about a buck from Monoprice.com. I run that into a FM trap (about 8 bucks), next a 20 dB variable attenuator (also about 8 bucks), and then a 25 dB amp ahead of a 4-way splitter.

The antenna only has a 3 dB beamwidth, so is not all that directional. The FM trap gives me another 5 clicks on the quality meter because even though they are at different frequencies than TV, there are ~18 very strong FM signals coming from the same direction, and this keeps them from swamping the AGC.

The amp and attenuator work together; you want to send the best possible level into the front end of the amp. The way to do this is to pick your weakest channel that you can receive solidly, and watch the quality meter (most TVs have this, if you don't this may not be available to you, but you could also do this procedure "blindly" by watching the screen), and slowly adjust attenuation from 20 dB to 0 dB. The signal quality should start to improve, level off, and then start to dip. Set the attenuator at the highest SQ level, which may be anywhere from -20 to 0, depending.

If you do not get this bell curve response, you should try this without the amp. If the signal always gets better as you turn the dial towards 0, then eliminate the attenuator.

Walls in typical construction, especially stucco, have metal grids in them that thwart reception, which is why the antenna should be in front of a window with line of sight to S. Mt. 2nd floor is better.

You may need an outside antenna, or at least an antenna with more directionality. The Channel Master antennae are pretty good. You also need the antenna to be able to receive high VHF, as 8, 10, and 12 are all in that band. You may need to simply move the antenna 10 feet to one side or the other if you are in a destructive interference node due to multipath reflections.

You can get an amp from Monoprice or RatShack, but you are close enough to not need an antenna preamp. A line distribution type amp might be what you need, especially if you are distributing to multiple sets.

Good luck, and post back.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
07:25 AM Liked: 12
post #11183 of 11306
10-19-2014 | Posts: 2,437
Joined: Jul 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
Is it just me or does 'Gotham' on fox has exceptional PQ? I was watching it last night and I was thinking holy cow it can give a blu ray disc a run for its money
There are a lot of factors that go into PQ. Many of the things that get in the way of PQ are due to the fact that signals get compressed during transmission to the viewer.

But assuming those problems have all been addressed, and most have in the last decade, PQ can vary greatly for other reasons.

In the case of Gotham, it is probably choices made by the producers technically to give the show a certain look. And I agree; they did a remarkable job with that and with the set decoration. It is a beautiful show.

It used to be that film was hard to beat, but these days there are so many wonderful ways to tweak video that it has surpassed film. These guys have demonstrated that, and that they really know how to use the medium and its new tools. Every shot is just gorgeous. I think that will help keep this show on the air, and other producers should learn from this success.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
07:33 AM Liked: 12
post #11184 of 11306
10-19-2014 | Posts: 2,437
Joined: Jul 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles O View Post
....it also seems that Bounce is moving off My45 to KTVW at some point in the future.
That would be unexpectedly shocking news to the FOX network, which owns KUTP. I am quite sure they do not want that to happen. It might, but they will replace it with something else.

The reason Movies! is on Cox is due to the muscle of FOX, who owns and created that channel for their owned and operated stations and affiliates from the FOX film library. Bounce doesn't have quite the same pull, although KUTP would love to have it on Cox.
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
07:39 AM Liked: 12
post #11185 of 11306
10-19-2014 | Posts: 2,437
Joined: Jul 2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpcgeek View Post
You can buy a DSL modem for under $30 on Amazon. Do remember the speeds you get from DSL are dependant on how far you are from a CO. While they like to advertise up to 40Mbps, I can only get 7Mbps where I live in Mesa. Since I can only get 7Mbps, I am not eligible for their TV service if I wanted.
It also depends on the "quality" of your installation. I got < 2 Mb when installed. I complained to CL that less than 10% of "up to 20 Mb" somewhat violated what I thought I should be getting under our agreement, and they sent a tech who was "unhappy with the quality of the installation". By the time he left, I was getting 18.7 Mb.
DoubleDAZ's Avatar DoubleDAZ
08:04 AM Liked: 90
post #11186 of 11306
10-19-2014 | Posts: 9,955
Joined: May 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeckler View Post
I still have internet through Cox. I haven't taken the time to see if I get anything off that feed. I remember reading that they possibly used to, but not sure now.
Cox quit including Clear QAM with internet service many years are. But, chances are you'll still get local channels in HD and various other channels, mainly those up to Ch 70, in SD for a period of time. Eventually Cox will install a filter/trap to eliminate them. They usually don't do this until they have a reason to roll a truck in your area, so how long reception will last is completely unknown. When it happens, you'll still have to install the right antenna. Good luck.
domino92024's Avatar domino92024
09:53 PM Liked: 180
post #11187 of 11306
10-19-2014 | Posts: 3,511
Joined: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post
Cox quit including Clear QAM with internet service many years are. But, chances are you'll still get local channels in HD and various other channels, mainly those up to Ch 70, in SD for a period of time. Eventually Cox will install a filter/trap to eliminate them. They usually don't do this until they have a reason to roll a truck in your area, so how long reception will last is completely unknown. When it happens, you'll still have to install the right antenna. Good luck.

Once Cox goes all digital (between now and Q4-2015) this entire "problem" will disappear. Will they bother to roll trucks now to filter internet only customers in areas due for early digital transition? Dunno. Doubt it.
justniz
12:28 PM Liked: 0
post #11188 of 11306
10-20-2014 | Posts: 2
Joined: Oct 2014
Hi guys,

I'm trying to be a happy cable cutter, and need some advice on antennas.

I have a single-floor home off Cave Creek Rd and Greenway. Mr. Antenna came out and fitted a rooftoop antenna in the summer, and it was a struggle for him to get a consistent signal across all the good channels. especially 7.1 and PBS, which happens to be the ones I most want. S.Mountain is like 22 miles from me, however it looks like the edge of North Mountain park is directly between me and the transmitters.

The antenna he used was small. I can't find pics of exactly it on the internet anywhere, but it kinda looks like an EZ HD antenna with some extra little fold-out fins, and is mounted vertically. Its about the same size as all the 30 mile range antennas I've found on the web so would probably normally be great if there weren't hills along the way.

Reception has alwas been "variable" but in the last few weeks the signal has now dropped off to the point where I get much fewer channels and barely any signal on the ones I want anymore. Unfortunately I can still get all the crappy ones prefectly. Even the time of day seems to effect reception too, (mornings and late evenings seem worse). I've checked the antenna and the mount and it seems well secured and physically ok. I'm fairly sure it hadn't moved since he installed it so I'm guessing just the change to autumn weather must be it. I tried re-aiming the antenna a little, which did help for a few hours but the next day it had gone bad again. I also added a masthead preamp/FM filter that I got from Radio shack which did help for a few weeks, but now even with that I don't get a good signal any more.

Is it possible that I will ever get OTA working reliably or should I just accept that because of my location, no OTA ever for me?

Any advice on how to get this going and which antenna make/model would be the best to try next would be much appreciated.
Scott Oakley's Avatar Scott Oakley
02:02 PM Liked: 79
post #11189 of 11306
10-20-2014 | Posts: 677
Joined: Jan 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by justniz View Post
Hi guys,

I'm trying to be a happy cable cutter, and need some advice on antennas.

I have a single-floor home off Cave Creek Rd and Greenway. Mr. Antenna came out and fitted a rooftoop antenna in the summer, and it was a struggle for him to get a consistent signal across all the good channels. especially 7.1 and PBS, which happens to be the ones I most want. S.Mountain is like 22 miles from me, however it looks like the edge of North Mountain park is directly between me and the transmitters.

The antenna he used was small. I can't find pics of exactly it on the internet anywhere, but it kinda looks like an EZ HD antenna with some extra little fold-out fins, and is mounted vertically. Its about the same size as all the 30 mile range antennas I've found on the web so would probably normally be great if there weren't hills along the way.

Reception has alwas been "variable" but in the last few weeks the signal has now dropped off to the point where I get much fewer channels and barely any signal on the ones I want anymore. Unfortunately I can still get all the crappy ones prefectly. Even the time of day seems to effect reception too, (mornings and late evenings seem worse). I've checked the antenna and the mount and it seems well secured and physically ok. I'm fairly sure it hadn't moved since he installed it so I'm guessing just the change to autumn weather must be it. I tried re-aiming the antenna a little, which did help for a few hours but the next day it had gone bad again. I also added a masthead preamp/FM filter that I got from Radio shack which did help for a few weeks, but now even with that I don't get a good signal any more.

Is it possible that I will ever get OTA working reliably or should I just accept that because of my location, no OTA ever for me?

Any advice on how to get this going and which antenna make/model would be the best to try next would be much appreciated.
Boy, you're going to get a lot of "I live here and here's what I did" on this. And you'll wonder, "Which one of the many examples should I do?" And we feel your pain.

The reality is you, like me, live in a tricky reception area because of the mountains between you and South Mountain. The other reality is you just have to keep trying. My hunch is the antenna you were sold is inadequate. So, here's what I would do (and did):

* Go to tvfool.com and enter your specific address and get an idea of your reception potential. The column to look at is something like second reflection. I know its not that but you'll see it. It basically tells you how many bounces the signal from each antenna is going to take between South Mountain and your roof. Its approximate but its better than what you have now.

* Based on that plus the relative signal reception strength for the different channels, research antennas and buy one that specifies at least 20% more miles than you are from the antennas.

* Put the antenna up and keep futzing with it. You'll need a partner and walkie talkies for this.

You will get a lot more technical and knowledgable input than this but I think this is what it all boils down to.

I ended up with the Winegard model shown in the link below and I got lucky basically. But I had to find the optimum spot on the roof for it.

Good luck and please keep us posted.............Scott

http://www.amazon.com/Winegard-HD769.../dp/B001DFTGR4
TomCat's Avatar TomCat
04:39 PM Liked: 12
post #11190 of 11306
10-20-2014 | Posts: 2,437
Joined: Jul 2000
Why would "Mr. Antenna" put up an antenna that does not work properly?

Every reception site is a bit of a crap shoot, and to stay in business "Mr. Antenna" should try to bear down a little bit, and not leave until you have a working system, IMHO.

Maybe its not "Mr. Antennae", because that is the only single antenna he had? Maybe he was too lazy to climb up the ladder again and swap it with a better one? Maybe there was an agreed on price and a little better antenna would cut into his profits?

You need a better (read: more directional) antenna, such as a Channel Master 4228 HD. While not spec'ed for high VHF, they do pretty good. Your problem with 8.x may be because the antenna up there is not capable of both UHF and high VHF.

My guess is that you are getting some edge glow spatter around the Mt crests, which is a form of multipath interference. A more directional antenna should be able to find a beam without as much interference. Oddly, sometimes you have to point an antenna somewhat off axis to get the best reception in a multipath environment. Sometimes you have to move the antenna 5 or 10 feet to get out of an interference node. You likely do not need an antenna preamp under 50 miles away, and the preamp will just amplify signal and interference equally (plus add noise), meaning that at best the RATIO of signal to interference will not be improved, and that is the key thing that a directional antenna can do. You likely would not need a distribution line amp unless you are feeding a lot of sets over distance.

But "Mr. Antenna" should know all of that, and should have provided you with a more reliable system by employing a better antenna and better positioning/aiming technique. I hate to be cynical, but it sounds like you got the bare minimum treatment needed for him to get paid. Try your best to not let them off the hook, because it seems like you did not get delivery on what you probably paid for.

If you paid with a credit card it may be possible to contest this.

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