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post #241 of 11192 Old 02-18-2005, 12:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ntrprize
...The HD stations are still a little spotty...

Does anyone know of when ALL the locals should have their bugs worked out?

No offense, but that's like when my kids ask "are we there yet?"

It'll happen when it happens. Please remember that we are the early adopters, the lunatic fringe. I know that sounds ludicrous since the first DT station in this market (KSAZ) went on line in October '99, but only recently has HD begun to reach critical mass. And now the actual station managers themselves are starting to watch their own DT channels for the first time, which is a terrific stimulus to resolving any outstanding issues.

It's still the wild wild west out there, and HD is still the new frontier. There will continue to be growing pains. Channel 15 doesn't have a "technical issue" with its sound as much as it is simply vetting the budget process for additional equipment needed to fix that issue. The wheels are turning, but slowly, sometimes. I sometimes find it difficult to be patient, but I respect all of the fine technical work going on in this industry and especially in our local stations, as I'm sure you do as well. Having HD that is still a bit buggy is what's known as a "good" problem. Not having it at all is much worse.

It was Confucious who said "May you live in interesting times".

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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post #242 of 11192 Old 02-18-2005, 12:47 PM
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I was hoping there was an easier answer, like some sort of FCC mandated deadline. Oh well. At least I am now ABLE to get HD. Cant wait until I can depend on it to let my HDTiVo record those shows when Im out of the house.

Thanks

Steven
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post #243 of 11192 Old 02-18-2005, 12:54 PM
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I have seen this for a while now, and it only seems to happen on KSAZ-DT 31. I would like to see if anyone else is noticing this.

What happens is that occasionally my display experiences what appears to be a sync relock. The picture rolls either vertically or horizontally once, or twice very quickly. There is NO PIXELLATION during this, it is very different from a pixellation hit.

At first I saw it on my display, but now that I have the HD Tivo, I am seeing the exact same problem, so it is less likely an issue with my Sony display. If you play this back in slo-mo, you can see that the video jumps back a few frames, then forward a few frames, and then relocks to the correct frame. Audio is not interrupted, but it follows the video exactly so that a syllable or so is mixed up.

I saw it about 18 times in "The O.C." last night, and since I was watching the Tivo playback before the same broadcast from KTTV (DTV 89), I recorded that showing as well, and it did not have the reframes.

If you think you are seeing the same issue as me, please post a reply. This will at least take any reception or display issues out of the equation. Thanks in advance.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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post #244 of 11192 Old 02-18-2005, 01:18 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TomCat
I have seen this for a while now, and it only seems to happen on KSAZ-DT 31. I would like to see if anyone else is noticing this.

What happens is that occasionally my display experiences what appears to be a sync relock. The picture rolls either vertically or horizontally once, or twice very quickly. There is NO PIXELLATION during this, it is very different from a pixellation hit.

At first I saw it on my display, but now that I have the HD Tivo, I am seeing the exact same problem, so it is less likely an issue with my Sony display. If you play this back in slo-mo, you can see that the video jumps back a few frames, then forward a few frames, and then relocks to the correct frame. Audio is not interrupted, but it follows the video exactly so that a syllable or so is mixed up.

I saw it about 18 times in "The O.C." last night, and since I was watching the Tivo playback before the same broadcast from KTTV (DTV 89), I recorded that showing as well, and it did not have the reframes.

If you think you are seeing the same issue as me, please post a reply. This will at least take any reception or display issues out of the equation. Thanks in advance.


I've seen this happen the last couple of weeks while watching The O.C. I'm using and OTA antenna.

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post #245 of 11192 Old 02-18-2005, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by TomCat
I respect all of the fine technical work going on in this industry and especially in our local stations, as I'm sure you do as well.

I couldn't agree more and get frustrated when some of them take it personally when posters occassionally vent their frustrations. If two people need thick skins, it's software engineers (programmers) and hardware engineers, especially when it comes to new technology.

Cheers, Dave
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post #246 of 11192 Old 02-18-2005, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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ntrprize, there is an FCC mandate for the DTV conversion to be over, but I don't know anyone who thinks it will be met. Even if it is met, that will not stop the type of problems we are experiencing. However, once the analog channels go away, all emphasis will be on the HD channels and that should fix most problems. If you think it's bad now, you should have been here as little as a year ago.

Cheers, Dave
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post #247 of 11192 Old 02-18-2005, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by ntrprize
I got it at Radio Shack. You will have to do a search as posting links is not allowed.

Okay folks, now I have to agree with ATH. They've asked us not to post links or references TO OTHER FORUMS. This does not mean you can't post a link to a Radio Shack part.

If you think about why they are enforcing their policy, as I have over the past day or so, you might come to the conclusion that if they allow us to post links to other forums, they'd have to allow them all, including their competitors and that would not be in their best interests.

CPanther95 and I have ironed out our differences and I've agreed to abide by their rules. I believe it was simply an unfortunate set of circumstances that led to the current discontent. Let's all drop the sarcasm and simply get back to discussing HDTV and not waste any more time on something we don't control in the first place. Peace!

Cheers, Dave
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post #248 of 11192 Old 02-19-2005, 09:49 AM
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The part I used is 15-678 from radio shack. I belive it will attenuate the signal from 0 to 20db. It is bidirectional in case you need that. For $10 it gives you more flexibility than the standard 6db screw in type of attenuator. Worked like a charm for me (so far). I live about 20 miles as the crow flies from the towers, so I was surprised I had too much signal.
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post #249 of 11192 Old 02-19-2005, 03:44 PM
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Got an update Friday 2/18 from KNXV engineering on DD upgrade:

"We found a demod that has a problem with the AC3 audio signal. We have swapped it with another and will have a replacement on Monday. But, tonight's and Sunday's prime programming will be in 5.1 "
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post #250 of 11192 Old 02-19-2005, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, Ryan is on top of things pretty well and that's why the testing needs to be done regardless of sweeps, etc. Had they not tested this week, they would not have found this problem, possibly until March when some more new equipment arrives.

Cheers, Dave
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post #251 of 11192 Old 02-19-2005, 10:05 PM
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No offense, but how much "testing" and upgrading there is to do and how limited the time might be to do it in sounds pretty much like nothing more than a lame excuse, IMHO. I know for a fact that these kinds of "reasons" usually are not actually the real "reasons". It's a poor workman that blames his tools, after all.

And, not all testing needs to happen on line and in prime time. Usually, off line testing is done first, which helps the folks who sunk 4 grand feel less like guinea pigs.

Also, most engineering departments don't put something new on line and then retire to the nearest sports bar at 5 PM hoping for the best between 7 and 10. Most engineering departments keep somebody close at hand who can reverse the process and forestall the problem until the next business day should this type of problem occur. Others are content to let it go on for days, not apparently caring what the viewers must endure. There are better ways to do it, and while the engineers are I'm sure very competent indeed, this reeks of poor management.

Respect is a two-way street, and it must be earned. This shows nothing but disrespect for the viewers, IMO. Still, I'd rather suffer the growing pains than have them not adding 5.1.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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post #252 of 11192 Old 02-20-2005, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I don't want to speak for Ryan, and I'm certainly not an engineer, but if Ryan thinks this is the only way he can test things and get the results he is looking for, so be it. Perhaps others could get it done offline, perhaps not. If this were the only station testing things live, I might agree with no second thoughts, but having been around HD awhile now, it seems all stations have found problems once they went live. While this may not technically be testing, it amounts to the same thing, frustrated viewers and apologetic engineers. I've yet to see anyone test everything offline and not have problems once they go live. Maybe I'm too lenient, but I've rarely been accused of that.

Cheers, Dave
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post #253 of 11192 Old 02-21-2005, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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The first post in this thread has been updated to include some station/channel offering info and points of contact. I apologize for not posting this info sooner.

Cheers, Dave
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post #254 of 11192 Old 02-21-2005, 07:16 PM
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Sunday ABC will be broadcasting the Academy Awards in HD. It appears that ABC will have a little competition; CBS is showing "Collateral Damage" in HD, and Fox will be showing "Independence Day" in HD.

I don't know about everyone else, but I will be watching the Academy Awards. What about you?

Don
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post #255 of 11192 Old 02-23-2005, 12:58 PM
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Oscars all the way, especially now that Chris Rock is hosting. Hopefully, KNXV will pass along the 5.1 audio. I will have to send Ryan an e-mail see what he has to say about it.

"With the advent of high-definition television, home viewers will see actors with extreme clarity and detail. Thus they will demand the stars of "Sex and the City" change their names to "The Golden Girls." -Conan O'Brien, In The Year 2000: Ted Danson Edition-
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post #256 of 11192 Old 02-23-2005, 01:43 PM
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Well, at least now that I have the 8300 DVR, I can watch one and record one of the others. Hope ABC's 5.1 is working.
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post #257 of 11192 Old 02-24-2005, 09:28 AM
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Hi All,

I recently ordered a Sony 34XBR960 to replace my older 36XBR450. The new set has a built-in HD receiver, so I would like to make use of it to pick up the locals.

I am a DirecTV subscriber (I ditched COX a few years ago). I also just use Tivo receivers, but have not convinced the wife to go for the HDTivo yet.

I am hoping that once she sees the locals in HD she will be swayed. heheh.

My question is which antennae would be my best bet? I am at Union Hills and the 101. So I am about 35 miles or so from South Mountain. I assume it will need to be a Roof Top antennae, but I am not sure which one I should go for.

Any suggestions? I was looking at the Wineguard HD9095P. Will that do the job?

Thanks!

-Paul
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post #258 of 11192 Old 02-24-2005, 10:56 AM
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Paul, try www.antennaweb.org. That website will tell you which antenna is best for your location and it will also tell you down to the degree which direction to point your antenna. Good luck!

"With the advent of high-definition television, home viewers will see actors with extreme clarity and detail. Thus they will demand the stars of "Sex and the City" change their names to "The Golden Girls." -Conan O'Brien, In The Year 2000: Ted Danson Edition-
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post #259 of 11192 Old 02-24-2005, 11:23 AM
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wow thanks! That helps!

Does anyone in the north valley use indoor (set-top) antennas to pick up HD signals? Any reception issues with that?

Thanks!
-Paul
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post #260 of 11192 Old 02-24-2005, 01:47 PM
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Paul, did that link work for you because I just tried it and it would not come up? If you going to use an indoor antenna go with the Silver Sensor. You can pick one up at Sears or you can find some good deal online. Be sure that you use the exact degree that anetennaweb.org gave you when pointing whatever antenna you get because I have found moving the Silver Sensor even a couple of degrees can make a difference. Good Luck!

P.S. Make sure of the return policy on the Silver Sensor in case it does not work at your location.

"With the advent of high-definition television, home viewers will see actors with extreme clarity and detail. Thus they will demand the stars of "Sex and the City" change their names to "The Golden Girls." -Conan O'Brien, In The Year 2000: Ted Danson Edition-
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post #261 of 11192 Old 02-24-2005, 01:56 PM
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Yeah I was able to get to the site.

Thanks for the suggestion on the Silver Sensor. I will definately pick on of those up and try it out.

Are you happy with it? Any reception issues where you live?

Thanks!

Paul
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post #262 of 11192 Old 02-24-2005, 06:39 PM
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Paul, the Silver Sensor is the gold standard for indoor antennas. I highly recommend it but just because it works for me does not mean it will work for you. That is the nature of terrestrial signals of any type. The only way to see it will work is to buy it and hook it up. That is why I added the last part about the return policy. I think it will work fine for you but make sure you get out your compass and point to the exact degree antennaweb.org gave you. You might have to tweak it a little (move the antenna a couple degrees) but not much. Good Luck!

"With the advent of high-definition television, home viewers will see actors with extreme clarity and detail. Thus they will demand the stars of "Sex and the City" change their names to "The Golden Girls." -Conan O'Brien, In The Year 2000: Ted Danson Edition-
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post #263 of 11192 Old 02-24-2005, 09:25 PM
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I'm a Cox telephone, internet and cable (analog) subscriber, and just picked up a QAM tuner for my PC. After some futzing, I was able to locate all of the local channels for Phoenix over my cable feed, but the signal quality is unacceptable. Many, many transport continuity errors that result in very distracting macro block errors as well as occasional pops and fizzles on the AC3 audio. Reminds of using ATSC with an undersized antenna.

I've tried taking the main feed directly to the card, but the improvement is in the noise, although the statistics do show the error rate dropping for the connection.

Has anyone else had quality problems using the OpenCable QAM HD channels? Were you able to resolve without a service call?

Would an amplifier be helpful for this, or would it just amplify garbage?

At this point I'm ready to switch back to OTA for the quality (but instability).

Thanks,
Brad
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post #264 of 11192 Old 02-25-2005, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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FWIW, there aren't that many folks in Phoenix using an integrated tuner, in this forum or others, but those who do have never, to my knowledge, complained of PQ problems. I've seen a few posts from folks who use Cox for their HD and also have an integrated tuner. Just as a test, they connected a line to the integrated tuner to compare images and saw no difference in PQ. I believe I've seen the same from others who have an antenna, but I'm not positive. It has only been a short time that the locals have been available on Cox unencrypted.

On a side note, just because you connected a direct line, depending on how your house is wired for cable, that line may still be split in the attic, etc., contributing to the problems. Of course, there could be comething wrong or incompatable with the PC card.

Cheers, Dave
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post #265 of 11192 Old 02-25-2005, 04:02 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by hschen
I just found this thread and I am glad I did. I am struggling on HD OTA reception ever since I bought my Mitsubishi HDTV last January. I live in North Scottsdale just west of Scottsdale Airpark near Kierland. I had a pretty big multi-element (VHF/UHF) RadioShack antenna in my 2nd story attic for 10 years. The antenna cannot pull in all HD stations. If 15 is in, 10 will be out. If 45 is in, 61 will be lost. Thanks to you all, now I found the alignment info on the antennaweb. Allow me to ask a few dumb questions.

1. What is the best (most effective) antenna to buy on the market? Any recommendation from someone live nearby me?

2. When aligning the antenna to South Mountain, does it matter which end pointing at South Mountain? UHF element is in the rear and VHF is in the front. Right now, my antenna is pointing away from South Mountain (UHF is in the south end).

3. I read some posts saying that with Cox internet and a HDTV with QAM tuner, it is possible to get 'free' local HD channels through the Cox cable (?). I do have Cox cable internet and A Mitsubishi HDTV with QAM tuner. How to tap into the Cox cable to feed my HDTV? Just a simple split before the cable feed into the cable modem?

Thanks for your helpful info.

hschen,

I am fairly close to your location. East of the Scottsdale Airpark by a few miles (92nd & Raintree). I am getting fantastic reception on the PHX digital stations using an Antenna's Direct DB4 and the built-in HD tuner on my Sony KDF-50WE655. I originally mounted this in the attic of my 2 story house, but experienced quite a few break ups and low signal strength on several channnels (15.1 in particular). I recently moved the DB4 to my patio roof just to see if mounting outside would make a big difference. Wow! Nearly every station gives me a 95+ signal. I originally planned to move the antenna up to my chimney where there is decent line of sight to S. Mtn (w/ Camelback partially in the way). However, I'm now going to leave it right where it is given the signal I'm getting. Prior to the DB4 I tried a traditional Channel Master UHF/VHF/FM antenna in the attic with fairly poor results. Since I didn't need the VHF or FM, I decided to try the UHF only DB4. Money well spent in my opinion. Hope that helps.
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post #266 of 11192 Old 02-25-2005, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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FWIW and for those buying antennas and using OTA for HD locals, all Phoenix stations have made their final DTV elections in the first round, and here is the new lineup:

8 KAET PBS
10 KSAZ Fox
12 KPNX NBC
15 KNXV ABC
17 KPHO CBS
20 KPAZ TBN
24 KTVK Independent
26 KUTP UPN
33 KTVW Univision
39 KDTP Daystar
49 KASW WB
51 KPPX Pax

Please note that 3 of these (8, 10, 12) are VHF. I don't know enough about digital OTA reception (cable guy) to know what effect that will have on reception with UHF-only antennas. Just passing along the information.

Cheers, Dave
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post #267 of 11192 Old 02-25-2005, 04:47 PM
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If you are where you can get OTA with a SS reliably, once everyone is at full power (everyone definitely will be by the time they go to one channel), I would not be surprised if the VHF comes in just fine. If not, it is simple to tape a twin-lead dipole to the window and use a vhf/uhf splitter as a combiner and connect that, which should not in most cases increase multipath.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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post #268 of 11192 Old 02-26-2005, 10:34 AM
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Should I be receiving a signal in Queen Creek, AZ?

Specifically I live in Johnson Ranch and I am using a HTPC with the Fusion 3 Gold HD capture card with a multidirectional pre-amp'd antenna from Radio Shaft...

When scan for Digital signals my meter reads 0db the whole time. For what it's worth, I am receiving 11 Analog stations just fine.

Thanks...
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post #269 of 11192 Old 02-26-2005, 06:01 PM
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If those analog channels appear to be multipath-free OTA, I can't see why DTV would not be fairly simple to receive at that same location. You need line-of-sight, obviously. Other than that I would suspect a problem in your capture rig.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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post #270 of 11192 Old 02-26-2005, 06:05 PM
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Thanks for the reply. Antennaweb.org says to point to Tucson at 124 degrees. That is line of sight for me, but it's 70 miles away. Is this too far?
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