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post #301 of 6677 Old 11-26-2004, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bfoster
Then someone should probably leave the AUDIO VISUAL SCIENCE forum. This particular area is for Local HD Reception. I checked, no $179 HDTVs at Wal Mart.

This particular area is for local HD Recption, not a platform for taking pot shots at the stations and the personnel. If you can't receive a stations DTV or have other problems, state the facts and leave it at that.

Harold Jackson
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post #302 of 6677 Old 11-26-2004, 06:23 PM
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At 8:00pm WTKR-DT was broadcasting in HD. However, the audio is still the same as I reported in my 2:56pm post today.
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post #303 of 6677 Old 11-26-2004, 08:47 PM
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Sorry if I offended anyone, I was just really frustrated with the lack of HD.

As to my comment regarding the money involved, I did not mean to imply that dollars spent in any way equates to "any more consideration". The intent of the comment was to state my frustration in having spent a large (to me anyway) amount of money to receive HD yet have my TV sit nearly useless for a game which is, but for the playoffs and superbowl, one of the biggest of the year.

I obviously know little about broadcasting HD and apologize if my comments angered those who are in the business.

As you all well know, it's very hard to watch SD when the beautiful picture which is HD should be available.

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post #304 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 07:46 AM
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The time code on the PSIP for WB33 is 15 minutes slow.

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post #305 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Les Garrenton
Sorry about that. I'm not sure what the problem was, but based on the fact that it was reported in several markets over on the AVS HDTV Programming thread then it must have been a national issue or something NBC sent out that locked up some of the local affiliates' HD receiver.

Also, earlier in the day we had a power hit that resulted in the FOX Splicer locking up.

Did the power hit affect your NBC HD IRD? If so did you check ALL the settings to make sure they were still OK (Audio PIDs, Data PID, etc.) Hope you get it fixed before there is more HD from NBC.
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post #306 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 07:53 AM
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Art,

You have vented your frustration in a manner that many more people new to HDTV will make and probably with greater force. The sales people don't tell buyers that HDTV is still not really ready for prime time. They also don't let you know that OTA reception may be a significant problem depending upon where you live.

The station engineers are trying to do their jobs under difficult circumstances and addtionally have to toe management's party line. They have strong opinions of their own and yet are also gracious enough to continue to visit this forum and "listen" to our individual agendas. Hopefully this mess will get cleaned up real soon now and we will be able to enjoy HDTV with 99.9% reliability.
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post #307 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by robertawillisjr
Art,

You have vented your frustration in a manner that many more people new to HDTV will make and probably with greater force. The sales people don't tell buyers that HDTV is still not really ready for prime time. They also don't let you know that OTA reception may be a significant problem depending upon where you live.

The station engineers are trying to do their jobs under difficult circumstances and addtionally have to toe management's party line. They have strong opinions of their own and yet are also gracious enough to continue to visit this forum and "listen" to our individual agendas. Hopefully this mess will get cleaned up real soon now and we will be able to enjoy HDTV with 99.9% reliability.

Very well stated! We all know there are many technical problems but that is no excuse for attacks on the stations and their staff. All have been very active on the thread and their input is invaluable.

I think some need to apologize for their remarks or at least think before the vent their frustrations.

You are soooo right about the salespeople not telling the whole story. Tuesday while the wife was christmas shopping I went to a BB and Circuit City and played the dumb uninformed customer. You should have heard some of the stuff they told me. UNBELIVABLE!!!!!

Harold Jackson
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post #308 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by robertawillisjr
enjoy HDTV with 99.9% reliability.

99.9% reliability by OTA??? maybe in a few years when D* offers HD locals but not with the OTA technology we have now. And I for one would resign with D* long before I sink more money into this OTA fiasco. Some of us are only 20-30 miles from the towers and still have reception problems.
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post #309 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hjriver
... I went to a BB and Circuit City and played the dumb uninformed customer. You should have heard some of the stuff they told me...

I'm guilty for doing this... just listening to the pitches these sales people give... Makes me shake my head...

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post #310 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hphase
Did the power hit affect your NBC HD IRD? If so did you check ALL the settings to make sure they were still OK (Audio PIDs, Data PID, etc.) Hope you get it fixed before there is more HD from NBC.

No, the power hit was at our Suffolk transmitter site, the location of our FOX HD downlink. This interrupted the FOX HD bitstream which caused the FOX Splicer located at our Portsmouth studio to lock up.

By contrast our NBC downlink and receivers are all located at the Portsmouth studio, so at this point the problem during Seinfeld affecting many affiliates nationwide would appear to be totally unrelated. We've been passing NBC digital programming through that same receiver ever since Thursday night with no reports of problems.
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post #311 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Les Garrenton
We've been passing NBC digital programming through that same receiver ever since Thursday night with no reports of problems.

Les, please check your PM. URGENT!
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post #312 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by VARTV
I'm guilty for doing this... just listening to the pitches these sales people give... Makes me shake my head...

The technology is so complicated that the average person doesn't have a clue or is knowledgable enough to make a rational decision. This leaves the salesperson able to say just about anything without having to back it up. Then the poor customer gets the equipment home and "if" they can figure out how to hook it up sees the wonders of HD but also sees the awful sd displayed by most receivers.

Harold Jackson
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post #313 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 04:17 PM
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Just a reminder to anyone reading this thread. Before posting to this thread, please read the rules established in the first post. This thread was specifically setup by and for the Broadcast Engineers in the Norfolk area and will be heavily moderated to keep it productive (however they choose to define that).

There is another thread for the Norfolk DMA that is for general HD discussion, complaints, etc.
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post #314 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hjriver
If you had used my entire paragraph I stated a problem I saw and asked a question and I don't intend to apologe for anything. Some act like a bunch of whining 3 year olds. Instead of just stating the problem some have to interject their own little digs "WAVY" not ready for HD, "asleep at the switch" etc.

I don't care if WHRO was using lower bandwith on the George Jones broadcast, I just want to know if that was the cause or if it was something else. Maybe it was the way it was filmed. We still enjoyed it on our "thousands" of dollars worth of equipment.

Most would just past if left alone
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post #315 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vurbano
99.9% reliability by OTA??? maybe in a few years when D* offers HD locals but not with the OTA technology we have now. And I for one would resign with D* long before I sink more money into this OTA fiasco. Some of us are only 20-30 miles from the towers and still have reception problems.

Actually I'd bet NTSC OTA meets or exceeds 99.999% (The dreaded five nines!) reliability, probably has for years. It is group and station general management that needs to get behind the desires of the Federal Goverment, the Station Engineers and us elitist whiners. I understand the economics, but there is not going to be a magic date where the attention needs to be switched from NTSC to ATSC, it is going to be a transition.....

It seems like each month that goes buy I see more and more advertising for HD. From the networks, the NFL, the retailers and DirecTV. We are getting closer to the transitition IMO.

Brian
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post #316 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bruce Lowekamp
I'm quite sure that Ted would love to get better monitoring and switching equipment, and personnel that would/could treat the WTKR-DT signal with equal importance to the analog side. But he isn't the one who makes those decisions.

I suppose a valid point of discussion is whether the FCC should step in and regulate, or whether the market will simply force the issue next year, but whatever the end result, WTKR was one of the first (the first?) to get HD running here.

Bruce

Actually Bruce it was WAVY And Les G. that slipped ahead of the competition to broadcast HD first in THIS area. I remember the days... just Leno in HD.

However, Ted Hand was there in '96 I believe when WRAL in Raleigh did the first HD broadcast in the country.

I am sure Ted managed a few days off for the Holiday and is going to dread coming onto this board once he finds out what transpired over Thanksgiving weekend with football and HD. Maybe he can use this as some ammo to help convince higher management that we are getting closer to the THE day

While there have been a couple of less than helpful comments on the thread the past couple of days these engineers are pretty thick skinned and will understand most of the frustration.

Here's to HD!

Brian

WORDING CHANGED TO REFELECT LES'S HUMBLE COMMENTS BELOW
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post #317 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bfoster
Actually Bruce it was WAVY And Les G. that got HD started in THIS area. I remember the days... just Leno in HD.

While I would love to claim the cash prize for going where no man had gone before, in reality there were several stations and many people at those stations working at the same time to make DTV happen here, not just WAVY. The capital projects for things like towers, transmitters, and transmitter buildings were years in the making for several of us, and it really was only days or weeks before others were broadcasting on a regular schedule with us. This market was fortunate in that it had a lot of activity here compared to some other markets during that time. One of the most rewarding things was how entire effort here drew a lot of the broadcast engineers together as we compared notes on this new experiment.
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post #318 of 6677 Old 11-27-2004, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by VARTV
I'm guilty for doing this... just listening to the pitches these sales people give... Makes me shake my head...

I did this at a Radio Shack today. I was really looking for 25 foot component cables, but started talking about HD. Not only did he BS me on HD to sell stuff, but he said composite inputs would be just as nice as component. I laughed and asked him if he was kidding. He wasn't! After that, I had to burst his bubble and educate him a bit on HD and cabling. I think he felt kind of oolish, but at least he knows better now. Besides not finding my twenty some foot cables I needed, that made my day.

On a reception note, I had all channels until the day before Thanksgiving. I'm missing 13-1 and 33-1 now. I think it's due to the weather and might go fiddle with the antenna a bit more. Have to get WB before Smallville Wednesday!

Dale
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post #319 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 07:14 AM
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My present antenna arrangement consists of a silver sensor and double bow-tie connected on my upstairs dresser with white co-ax running downstairs to the STB. Reception is fine as long as no one (wife) is upstairs moving in front of the antennas. To my amazement she doesn't like the antennas on the dresser, the cable running along the stairs, or having to worry about excessive moving during the games......go figure.....Anyway, I'm looking to either go exterior or attic and have been looking at the square shooter. Has anyone in this area used one and if so how are the results? Thanks.
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post #320 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 11:55 AM
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Vurbano he said "NTSC" has nothing to do with the digital signal!! LMAO
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post #321 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by vurbano
Are you trying to say that the users of this thread have 99.999% reliability on all channels HD OTA? Im sure that some do, but this technology craps out if a tree waves in the wind for many. For many the reception changes with the wind, the season, the temperature etc. I just dont consider that 99.999% reliable and in light of these obvious limitations I find the adherence to the grade B reception contour rule absurd. Its a great idea if you live in level plains of Oklahoma but it just doesnt apply to the real world. I suppose we could fire up the bulldozers and level Hampton roads, then we'd have 99.999% reliability and the grade B contour would be valid. LMAO. It seems to me what we have now is technology, i.e tuners trying to improve to make this reception contour valid. Which is backasswards if you ask me.

Please do not construe this post as a knock against the local broadcasters.

Given that the reception issues you cited are due to various levels of multi-path (i.e. the tuner not being able to lock onto a signal) why shouldn't the effort be put into the tuner technology?

BTW - we should probably move this discussion to the other thread since we are no longer talking about specific issues with the local broadcasts.

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post #322 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 01:37 PM
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From what I've seen, today's Redskins/Steelers broadcast on 43-1 has been flawless!
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post #323 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 01:37 PM
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Minn/Jax game in HD and looks good. Audio during the game is DD5.1 but the commercials and other breaks are not DD5.1 but seem to be mono even though the receiver says it's DD5.1.
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post #324 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 02:02 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by dhahne
Given that the reception issues you cited are due to various levels of multi-path (i.e. the tuner not being able to lock onto a signal) why shouldn't the effort be put into the tuner technology?

BTW - we should probably move this discussion to the other thread since we are no longer talking about specific issues with the local broadcasts.

I agree they should improve the tuners. My point was its happening a little backwards.

Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
From what I've seen, today's Redskins/Steelers broadcast on 43-1 has been flawless!

It was very good. And I never have problems picking up FOX.

Quote:


Originally posted by dbeer
Vurbano he said "NTSC" has nothing to do with the digital signal!! LMAO

Oops Your right I missed that. SORRY. Yes I agree then the analog is very reliable
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post #325 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 03:50 PM
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Is there a problem with 3-1 today? I'm getting the lowest signal strenth readings I've ever gotten for it right now. It's bouncing back and forth with various signal strengths ranging from 0 and 57%. Usually, even when there are issues with the signal, it will go up to around 88% with intermittent drops. FOXDT by contrast is a solid 88%.

Thanks.
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post #326 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 04:05 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Is there a problem with 3-1 today? I'm getting the lowest signal strenth readings I've ever gotten for it right now. It's bouncing back and forth with various signal strengths ranging from 0 and 57%. Usually, even when there are issues with the signal, it will go up to around 88% with intermittent drops. FOXDT by contrast is a solid 88%.

Thanks.

3-1 is rock solid here, signal strength 82%. Been watching it most of the day and no problem.
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post #327 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 04:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Is there a problem with 3-1 today? I'm getting the lowest signal strenth readings I've ever gotten for it right now. It's bouncing back and forth with various signal strengths ranging from 0 and 57%. Usually, even when there are issues with the signal, it will go up to around 88% with intermittent drops. FOXDT by contrast is a solid 88%.

Thanks.

I watched 3-1 most of the day also. Signal between 74 and 78.

Harold Jackson
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post #328 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 05:12 PM
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Les, no audio on 10-1. (SHREK) Ok on 10-2. NBC National HD feed ok.

Harold Jackson
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post #329 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 05:25 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by hjriver
Les, no audio on 10-1. (SHREK) Ok on 10-2. NBC National HD feed ok.

But it's a great picture and the commercials are working perfectly.
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post #330 of 6677 Old 11-28-2004, 05:28 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by robrien
But it's a great picture and the commercials are working perfectly.

We're working on it...
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