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post #331 of 6676 Old 11-28-2004, 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Todd
Is there a problem with 3-1 today? I'm getting the lowest signal strenth readings I've ever gotten for it right now. It's bouncing back and forth with various signal strengths ranging from 0 and 57%. Usually, even when there are issues with the signal, it will go up to around 88% with intermittent drops. FOXDT by contrast is a solid 88%.

Thanks.

3-1 has been dropping in and out for me all day. I've had to watch football on SD. On a positive note. 43-1 has been rock solid and "ICE AGE" is unbelievable!!!!! I have my wireless laptop hooked up finally, so I can complain real time now while I watch tv. Time to go check out Shrek. I have sound on it, but it's in 4:3 mode?

I spoke too soon. It's in wide mode now.

Dale
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post #332 of 6676 Old 11-28-2004, 07:00 PM
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Well we think that the issues with the 5.1 audio on NBC have finally been sorted out tonight with the generous assistance of an engineer from Dolby. It turns out there were a couple of different things going on with the NBC receiver and Dolby encoder which hadn't affected us until Thursday night. It ultimately required some different configuration settings to cure.

Sorry for the nuisance!
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post #333 of 6676 Old 11-28-2004, 08:05 PM
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Thanks Les! Any idea why it would suddenly be a problem? Did NBC change something? I wonder if this is the same problem the other stations had...
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post #334 of 6676 Old 11-28-2004, 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Todd
Thanks Les! Any idea why it would suddenly be a problem? Did NBC change something? I wonder if this is the same problem the other stations had...

We'll be calling NBC tomorrow to discuss the issue. It looks like they changed some data rates, and the way we were set up previously didn't allow our Dolby unit to relock to the new rate. It wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't the culprit elsewhere too.
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post #335 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 04:09 AM
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Fox 43.1 has been working great since they went to 720p with DD 5.1.

I wish Fox can do something with there logo since its not all on the screen. The "X" gets cut off at the bottom corner.
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post #336 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by jimmykce
... I wish Fox can do something with there logo since its not all on the screen. The "X" gets cut off at the bottom corner.

What's up with that? We all can see it. Is it local or a national FOX feed issue...

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post #337 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 04:56 AM
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It would also be nice if Fox 43.1 will make the logo transparent too.
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post #338 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by jimmykce
Fox 43.1 has been working great since they went to 720p with DD 5.1.

I wish Fox can do something with there logo since its not all on the screen. The "X" gets cut off at the bottom corner.

The less we see of it the better....
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post #339 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 05:58 AM
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Originally posted by Todd
The less we see of it the better....

Hahaha! Good point...

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post #340 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 06:15 AM
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Originally posted by VARTV
What's up with that? We all can see it. Is it local or a national FOX feed issue...

Isn't that the overscan from your tv? I have a 3% overscan on my tv in extend mode and 5-6% overscan in wide mode. I switched to extend mode and can see more of the logo now. But like you guys, the less we see the better!

Dale
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post #341 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 06:21 AM
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Originally posted by dkyork
Isn't that the overscan from your tv? I have a 3% overscan on my tv in extend mode and 5-6% overscan in wide mode. I switched to extend mode and can see more of the logo now. But like you guys, the less we see the better!

Dale

I have no problems with any other network bug...

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post #342 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 06:42 AM
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The FOX logo bug is one of those pesky to-do list things that hasn't gotten the attention it deserves. I've just spoken to our graphic artist who will bump it up in his list.

I told him that you guys have requested big bold solid letters right in the middle of the screen.
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post #343 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by Les Garrenton
The FOX logo bug is one of those pesky to-do list things that hasn't gotten the attention it deserves. I've just spoken to our graphic artist who will bump it up in his list.

I told him that you guys have requested big bold solid letters right in the middle of the screen.

Hahaha! It's good to hear you have a sense of humor... Take care...

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post #344 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by Les Garrenton
The FOX logo bug is one of those pesky to-do list things that hasn't gotten the attention it deserves. I've just spoken to our graphic artist who will bump it up in his list.

So are you saying that you all put in that graphic and not FOX? I had assumed FOX put it on there...
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post #345 of 6676 Old 11-29-2004, 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Todd
So are you saying that you all put in that graphic and not FOX? I had assumed FOX put it on there...

All we do is create the graphic, but even that has to be done following FOX guidelines for how it must look. We send the completed graphic to FOX so that they can download it into the local splicer and trigger it to appear at the appropriate times.
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post #346 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by Bruce Lowekamp
Unfortunately, DTV is more complex than that. So far I've tried 3 different locations in the attic for the antenna. The first only got half the channels. The second didn't pick up Fox well, but most of the others were decent. When Fox started broadcasting HD (and I had my aluminum siding replaced with vinyl), I searched for a new location. The new location is perfect for every channel except for WGNT! However, I think it's unlikely to be your fault...

(I know the best solution is to put the antenna outside, but my wife feels strongly against that solution.)

Bruce

Since I made this comment on signal problems, I thought I would follow up. As more leaves fell, my signal got even worse, first on WGNT, then on WTKR (which is a pretty good trick). I just had to rotate the antenna about 5-10 degrees to the east to clear up the signal. Now, perfect on all channels! We'll see, of course, if things change again when the leaves come back. Signal propagation is funny, WVEC is almost identical in bearing to WGNT, but it was WTKR that started to disappear next. Maybe it would make sense if I spent more time studying those grade B curves, but now that I have it fixed, I don't think I care as much...

Bruce
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post #347 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 11:59 AM
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Originally posted by Bruce Lowekamp
Since I made this comment on signal problems, I thought I would follow up. As more leaves fell, my signal got even worse, first on WGNT, then on WTKR (which is a pretty good trick). I just had to rotate the antenna about 5-10 degrees to the east to clear up the signal. Now, perfect on all channels! We'll see, of course, if things change again when the leaves come back. Signal propagation is funny, WVEC is almost identical in bearing to WGNT, but it was WTKR that started to disappear next. Maybe it would make sense if I spent more time studying those grade B curves, but now that I have it fixed, I don't think I care as much...

Bruce

Bruce,

Trees, in addition to just blocking signals when their water content is high, can also cause what I call signal turbulence. That is the tree actually causes several multipath signals seperated by very short time lags. Because the time lag is so short you don't see ghosting on analog but because the signal strengths can be similar the digital tuners have a tough time locking in on just one signal to display. To deal with this what I found I had to do was change the location of my antenna and not just the orientation. When I just changed the orientation every time someone cut down a tree (after Isabel there was a lot of that going on) I would have to realign and of course I had to change the orientation last spring when the leaves came out. Late this summer I moved the antenna horizontally (only about 10-12 feet) and fine tuned the orientation angle. Since then I have had solid images on all channels except for some minor drops during severe storms on a couple of the channels. Good luck with yours.

Dave Hahne
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post #348 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by dhahne
Bruce,

Trees, in addition to just blocking signals when their water content is high, can also cause what I call signal turbulence. That is the tree actually causes several multipath signals seperated by very short time lags. Because the time lag is so short you don't see ghosting on analog but because the signal strengths can be similar the digital tuners have a tough time locking in on just one signal to display. To deal with this what I found I had to do was change the location of my antenna and not just the orientation. When I just changed the orientation every time someone cut down a tree (after Isabel there was a lot of that going on) I would have to realign and of course I had to change the orientation last spring when the leaves came out. Late this summer I moved the antenna horizontally (only about 10-12 feet) and fine tuned the orientation angle. Since then I have had solid images on all channels except for some minor drops during severe storms on a couple of the channels. Good luck with yours.

I keep seeing all this discussion pertaining to leaves and wind but from my experience paying attention to the changing seasons I see no effect from leaves or wind. My antenna looks at the Hampton Roads towers 47 miles away right through a giant oak tree and pine tree in my yard and accross a little cove of water a forest with tall trees. My signal strengths do not vary with leaves on the trees or off or with the wind blowing and moving the antenna slightly. I never have to move the antenna although I was told I had to have a rotor to be able to aim the antenna.

Is your antenna mounted on the roof or inside the attic? That would make a big difference in performance.

The only weather related problem is very heavy rain and that is rare. I have most of my reception problems with my directv signal.

Harold Jackson
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post #349 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 02:14 PM
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I see no effect from leaves or wind. My antenna looks at the Hampton Roads towers 47 miles away right through a giant oak tree and pine tree in my yard and accross a little cove of water a forest with tall trees.

You may have a newer STB or unit that does a good job when multipath is a problem. I am auditioning a few units and find that some units do a much better job than others. But all of them do a better job than my ancient Samsung. I'll update when units with cablecards are available.
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post #350 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by robertawillisjr
You may have a newer STB or unit that does a good job when multipath is a problem. I am auditioning a few units and find that some units do a much better job than others. But all of them do a better job than my ancient Samsung. I'll update when units with cablecards are available.

I'm using an antique and obselete RCA DTC-100 (built-in to my RCA F38310) I bought in Nov 2001. One thing I don't have is other houses close. Maybe that makes a difference in signal reflection?

Harold Jackson
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post #351 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by hjriver
I'm using an antique and obselete RCA DTC-100 (built-in to my RCA F38310) I bought in Nov 2001. One thing I don't have is other houses close. Maybe that makes a difference in signal reflection?

Maybe those close trees actually help? Once you compensate for them the leaves on the rest of the trees make no difference? I think one of my reception problems is this sea of aluminum siding in the neighborhood.
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post #352 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by vurbano
Maybe those close trees actually help? Once you compensate for them the leaves on the rest of the trees make no difference? I think one of my reception problems is this sea of aluminum siding in the neighborhood.

The aluminum siding may be more of it than you think. Have you tried a variable attunator? I have excellent signal stability with levels in the 70's. I was watching WTVR-DT in Richmond the other day with a 34 signal and had no problems. Maybe you could try to cut yours a little and block some of the multi-path that's screwing up your receiver.

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post #353 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by vurbano
Maybe those close trees actually help? Once you compensate for them the leaves on the rest of the trees make no difference? I think one of my reception problems is this sea of aluminum siding in the neighborhood.

The aluminum siding may be more of it than you think. Have you tried a variable attunator? I have excellent signal stability with levels in the 70's. I was watching WTVR-DT in Richmond the other day with a 34 signal and had no problems. Maybe you could try to cut yours a little and block some of the multi-path that's screwing up your receiver.

Harold Jackson
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post #354 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 06:28 PM
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BTW, I bought a variable attenuator from Rat Shack and it doesn't seem to do any good.
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post #355 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by Todd
BTW, I bought a variable attenuator from Rat Shack and it doesn't seem to do any good.

How much could you drop your signal level? Are you using a RF Amp? Like I said earlier, my signal levels are always in the 70's and I don't seem to have the multi-path problems that many are having.

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post #356 of 6676 Old 11-30-2004, 08:00 PM
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I tried adjusting it when I was having dropouts problems with 3-1 for instance, but it didn't seem to help any. Tonight, I was picking up almost no signal for 3-1. I went ahead and adjusted my antenna for the first time in awhile and got the signal strength back into the 70's. As I've said before, this reception stuff is bizarre...
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post #357 of 6676 Old 12-01-2004, 03:37 AM
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Les:

when I was watching Fox last night, it seemed that you have made your logo a more transparent blue. You logo is still hanging off the screen with part of the letter "X" off the right bottom of the screen.

Can you make the Fox logo smaller and clear, like NBC, CBS, and ABC?
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post #358 of 6676 Old 12-01-2004, 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by hjriver
I keep seeing all this discussion pertaining to leaves and wind but from my experience paying attention to the changing seasons I see no effect from leaves or wind. My antenna looks at the Hampton Roads towers 47 miles away right through a giant oak tree and pine tree in my yard and accross a little cove of water a forest with tall trees. My signal strengths do not vary with leaves on the trees or off or with the wind blowing and moving the antenna slightly. I never have to move the antenna although I was told I had to have a rotor to be able to aim the antenna.

Is your antenna mounted on the roof or inside the attic? That would make a big difference in performance.

The only weather related problem is very heavy rain and that is rare. I have most of my reception problems with my directv signal.


Harold,

My antenna is in the attic. As for the affect of trees I think it is very site specific. Your distance may even help (pure speculation on my part). I do know that there were some very specific changes in my reception characteristics when a number of my neighbor's trees were taken down. Also, from my reading on the subject, I believe most of the issues with reception drops and trees results when you are pointed at the edge of nearby tree. Since you are aimed right through the heart of a giant oak (which probably doesn't move much in the wind) your main impact may simply be to signal strength and not variations in signal-to-noise. In any case, count your blessings as I do mine since I seem to have found the ideal location/orientation for my antenna.

Dave Hahne
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post #359 of 6676 Old 12-01-2004, 05:42 AM
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Originally posted by hjriver
How much could you drop your signal level? Are you using a RF Amp? Like I said earlier, my signal levels are always in the 70's and I don't seem to have the multi-path problems that many are having.

Remember guys, the signal meter on most (if not all) of these receivers is indicating signal-to-noise (where 100 is all signal and no noise) and not actual signal strength (i.e. the power in the signal).

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post #360 of 6676 Old 12-01-2004, 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by dhahne
Harold,

My antenna is in the attic. As for the affect of trees I think it is very site specific. Your distance may even help (pure speculation on my part). I do know that there were some very specific changes in my reception characteristics when a number of my neighbor's trees were taken down. Also, from my reading on the subject, I believe most of the issues with reception drops and trees results when you are pointed at the edge of nearby tree. Since you are aimed right through the heart of a giant oak (which probably doesn't move much in the wind) your main impact may simply be to signal strength and not variations in signal-to-noise. In any case, count your blessings as I do mine since I seem to have found the ideal location/orientation for my antenna.

I put this theory to the test after reading this at 10 am. We are having winds of 32 MPH gusts and driving rain. The branches on the oak and pine are really moving around yet my signal is a rock steady 76 on WAVY-DT. I realize these meters are usually S/N readings but using that as a guide then I should be having all kinds of reception problems. I think it involves much more than that.

When I lived in Richmond my house built in 1984 had aluminum clad insulation board under the siding. A cell phone would not work inside the house or rabbit ears. Your problem could very well be the antenna in the attic and nearby houses reflecting a lot of signal. I think that reducing the signal level below the reflected signal levels before the receiver allows the receiver to just see the actual signal.

Harold Jackson
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