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post #601 of 6673 Old 01-01-2005, 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by Earl Dunham
I watched the last half of this game on WVEC-DT and had now problems with it. A perfect picture. Don't know why others had problems and I didn't.
Earl

What receiver and set were you watching the Game on?

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post #602 of 6673 Old 01-01-2005, 07:10 PM
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I'm having the same issues with the Fiesta Bowl.
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post #603 of 6673 Old 01-01-2005, 07:55 PM
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Just so everyone understands what we are talking about, I just paused my HDTiVo and took a picture to show the pixelization problems. This is definately worse than anything I've seen during Monday Night Football.

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post #604 of 6673 Old 01-01-2005, 09:31 PM
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Holy cow that looks horrible!
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post #605 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 03:21 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Just so everyone understands what we are talking about, I just paused my HDTiVo and took a picture to show the pixelization problems. This is definately worse than anything I've seen during Monday Night Football.

Boy, that picture looked familiar all day long... What happened?!?!?

I don't watch MNF. I saw promos during the games yesterday about the playoffs on ABC next weekend. If they PQ is like the Bowl games, it'll be disappointing. Watching ABC yesterday looked awfully close to watching NFL games on WTKR.

To sound like a broken "record," I'm glad that the Superbowl is on FOX (and WVBT) this year. None of my guest coming over to watch the game will ask me "What's up with that blockiness?"

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post #606 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 05:42 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by VARTV
Watching ABC yesterday looked awfully close to watching NFL games on WTKR.

I don't remember it ever looking quite like that on WTKR. I'll see what it looks like today though.
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post #607 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 06:20 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
I don't remember it ever looking quite like that on WTKR. I'll see what it looks like today though.

That picture is baddddddd. One time yesterday the whole top half of the picture was missing just little squares of some kind. The bottom half was good. Stange. I switched to the west coast HD feed and it was fine.

Maybe the number of games they are trying to cover is stretching their resources and expertise thin. Let's hope the Super Bowl will be ok.

Harold Jackson
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post #608 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 07:51 AM
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I have been told (this is an indirect source which has some credibility) that there is a lot of experimenting taking place at the games. Some cameras get a wider bit stream, some are analog, etc. I don't know if this is possible or even true but the best pictures seem to come from the cameras used most and the worst seem to come from the cameras used least (crowd scences).

Perhaps someone else knows what is true.
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post #609 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 08:09 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by VARTV
Many kudos to the ABC network for broadcasting 13 hours of HD today. Some pixelization during fast moving scenes on WVEC-DT. Would we still see it if ABCNews Now (13-2) was turned off?

You would still see it even if we shut off ABC News Now. The amount of bandwidth allocated to 13-2 is minuscule. As such, you wouldn't notice any difference in 13-1.

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post #610 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 08:37 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by TH3_FRB
Is everyone else getting lots of pixelation and blocking on the Rose Bowl (13.1)? Even the ABC logo, score display, and graphics are suffering.

I watched the game for a while from my home and only noticed one small breakup. I don't know if the problem was local or the feed.
Quote:


Originally posted by Earl Dunham
I watched the last half of this game on WVEC-DT and had now problems with it. A perfect picture. Don't know why others had problems and I didn't.

Well....at least for the portion of the game I watched, I am in the same boat as you Earl. I'm using an older Dish Network 6000 receiver with the 8VSB OTA module in it. Some time back, I mentioned that I use an attenuator in the antenna line due to my proximity to the transmitters, and I've found that I have fewer problems here with more attenuation in the line than little. That indicated I've got multi-path signals and by reducing the signal strengths all around, I'm also making the multi-path signals smaller and less noticeable. Everyone is striving to get good reception with a signal of 100%, but I'm finding I get the best results with levels of from 60% to 75%.

Bill Bibeau, CBT
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post #611 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 08:46 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BillBibeau
I watched the game for a while from my home and only noticed one small breakup. I don't know if the problem was local or the feed.
Well....at least for the portion of the game I watched, I am in the same boat as you Earl. I'm using an older Dish Network 6000 receiver with the 8VSB OTA module in it. Some time back, I mentioned that I use an attenuator in the antenna line due to my proximity to the transmitters, and I've found that I have fewer problems here with more attenuation in the line than little. That indicated I've got multi-path signals and by reducing the signal strengths all around, I'm also making the multi-path signals smaller and less noticeable. Everyone is striving to get good reception with a signal of 100%, but I'm finding I get the best results with levels of from 60% to 75%.



That's been my experience. My signal levels are in the 70's and I rarely get multi-path.

Harold Jackson
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post #612 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 08:58 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BillBibeau
You would still see it even if we shut off ABC News Now. The amount of bandwidth allocated to 13-2 is minuscule. As such, you wouldn't notice any difference in 13-1.

Thanks Bill...

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post #613 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 09:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by BillBibeau
You would still see it even if we shut off ABC News Now. The amount of bandwidth allocated to 13-2 is minuscule. As such, you wouldn't notice any difference in 13-1.

Then how come when you all last had the SuperBowl and sent all available bandwidth to it there was virtually no pixelization at all? The only time I saw it during that broadcast was during the fast flying logo that flew across the screen during scene transitions. Thanks.
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post #614 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 09:47 AM
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For the folks out there that regularly watch MNF in HD and watched the Bowl games yesterday in HD on ABC, was there a noteably difference in PQ???

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post #615 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 10:11 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Then how come when you all last had the SuperBowl and sent all available bandwidth to it there was virtually no pixelization at all? The only time I saw it during that broadcast was during the fast flying logo that flew across the screen during scene transitions. Thanks.

Because of the fact that it was an important event and that the largest possible audience would be watching it, we shut down 13-2. However, on MNF back then, we still had 13-2 on and rarely got problems. It seems to be more frequent with many different receivers out there nowadays. Till everyone gets on the same page (receiver manufacturers and transmitter manufacturers) with the various versions of firmware and software, problems will exist.

Bill Bibeau, CBT
Retired Broadcasting Engineer
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post #616 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 10:18 AM
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But aren't you all giving more bandwidth to ABCNews Now than you did with the radar?
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post #617 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 11:18 AM
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Since there are 2 HD games on right now, I've been sitting here comparing the HD on 43-1 (Skins/Vikings) and 3-1 (Steelers/Bills) and here are my thoughts FWIW:

- The picture on CBS is noticeably sharper than on FOX.
- There are some pixelization problems on CBS, but they are not significant.
- There are virtually no pixelization problems on FOX.
- Both broadcasts are coming in perfect today with no breakups.
- Overall both games look very good. I do think 1080i presents a slightly better picture though.
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post #618 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 11:35 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Since there are 2 HD games on right now, I've been sitting here comparing the HD on 43-1 (Skins/Vikings) and 3-1 (Steelers/Bills) and here are my thoughts FWIW:

- The picture on CBS is noticeably sharper than on FOX.
- There are some pixelization problems on CBS, but they are not significant.
- There are virtually no pixelization problems on FOX.
- Both broadcasts are coming in perfect today with no breakups.
- Overall both games look very good. I do think 1080i presents a slightly better picture though.

If you think the Steelers/Bills game (on CBS) looks good, I've been impressed with the Jets/Rams game on CBS (DirecTV 91)... very, very nice!

It's my perception, that the colors on FOX are more "warmer" than CBS...

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post #619 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 11:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by VARTV
If you think the Steelers/Bills game (on CBS) looks good, I've been impressed with the Jets/Rams game on CBS (DirecTV 91)... very, very nice!

It's my perception, that the colors on FOX are more "warmer" than CBS...

Yeh, I do agree that the colors on FOX seem a little more vibrant. However, the field and the weather make a difference too.

I don't have ST, so I can't comment on the other games...
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post #620 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 12:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by VARTV
What receiver and set were you watching the Game on?


I have the same set as hjriver, a RCA model F38310 hd crt with a built in RCA digital tuner. These are first generation receivers. I am in a good location, no trees in my line of sight. With an externally mounted antennae I get good reception on all the local digital channels. All have a signal strength between 85 and 95. I only saw the second half of the game and may not have had my eyes glued to it all the time but I think I would have seen the serious problems unless I was out of the room for a moment.

For Bill:
I still have my Dish 6000 but not using it now, waiting for another HD tv in the house. I'm now using a Model 921 which I really like, but for this game I was using the receiver built into the TV. One of its antenae sources is the externally mounted antenae while I use the attic antenae for the 921. Signal strengths are just a little lower with the attic antenae.

Earl
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post #621 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 12:29 PM
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I think the picture looks slightly better on CBS as well. However, I hate the position of the scoreboard. Its sticking out in the middle of the screen like a sore thumb.

Audio on both stations also very good.

Did not see any bowl games so I can't comment on those.

Using HD Tivo and viewing OTA
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post #622 of 6673 Old 01-02-2005, 12:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by obxdiver
... I hate the position of the scoreboard. Its sticking out in the middle of the screen like a sore thumb...

I was thinking the same thing today. I've noticed that on the A-team CBS broadcasts, that they use separate graphics. We'll see at 4PM...

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post #623 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 06:58 AM
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While watching some of the BCS games this weekend the DD 5.1 audio was dropping out on a regular basis. I had this problem while trying to watch the last Monday Night Football game on ABC. I haven't seen any discussion here about this so I'm wondering if this is a problem peculiar to my tuner or something. Anyone else having audio difficulties on Channel 13-1?
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post #624 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Todd
Then how come when you all last had the SuperBowl and sent all available bandwidth to it there was virtually no pixelization at all? The only time I saw it during that broadcast was during the fast flying logo that flew across the screen during scene transitions. Thanks.

Those days are over.
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post #625 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 08:34 AM
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WTKR-DT


For the record..WTKR-DT will continue to turn off 3.2 when a BIG event is aired. (super bowl, final four, etc)

Ted Hand, CPBE. 8VSB, DRB, AMD
I was there on July 23, 1996...First DTV broadcast in the US..WRAL-HD

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post #626 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Theo1080
WTKR-DT

For the record..WTKR-DT will continue to turn off 3.2 when a BIG event is aired. (super bowl, final four, etc)

Awesome Ted!
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post #627 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 12:02 PM
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If have noticed that WBHD (33.2) has shown up in my program guide. I have went to this channel a number of time to find only things airing in SD. When will WBHD be showing something in HD. Also can WBHD be put first instead of second.
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post #628 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jimmykce
If have noticed that WBHD (33.2) has shown up in my program guide. I have went to this channel a number of time to find only things airing in SD. When will WBHD be showing something in HD. Also can WBHD be put first instead of second.

WTVZ-DT does do some HD. It depends if The WB network is sending it. They have a handful of shows in HD this year...

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post #629 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earl Dunham
I have the same set as hjriver, a RCA model F38310 hd crt with a built in RCA digital tuner. These are first generation receivers. I am in a good location, no trees in my line of sight. With an externally mounted antennae I get good reception on all the local digital channels. All have a signal strength between 85 and 95. I only saw the second half of the game and may not have had my eyes glued to it all the time but I think I would have seen the serious problems unless I was out of the room for a moment.

For Bill:
I still have my Dish 6000 but not using it now, waiting for another HD tv in the house. I'm now using a Model 921 which I really like, but for this game I was using the receiver built into the TV. One of its antenae sources is the externally mounted antenae while I use the attic antenae for the 921. Signal strengths are just a little lower with the attic antenae.

Earl

B]I have the same set as hjriver[/b] I would not even think of getting rid of my F38310. So far (and I've been "looking" around possibly for a 2nd set) I haven't seen anything with the PQ and stability of my RCA CRT set. Even though the receiver is first generation, it works well. I did see a Sanyo HD Direct View 30" with built in dual tuners at Walmart for $697 and it had an excellent picture. I might look into that a little closer for the bedroom.

A comment on some of the problems that many seem to be having and blaming the stations is I have the Directv National HD feeds and I see some problems there. If the locals are fed a problem then it's just passed through. The local stations have no way to correct them. The other day I saw one game that had the whole top half of the picture missing on the east coast feed but the west coast feed was perfect.

Harold Jackson
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post #630 of 6673 Old 01-03-2005, 02:14 PM
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FCC & Industry Updates


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



FCC to rule against multi-channel must-carry
Dec 27, 2004 8:00 AM, Beyond The Headlines

The FCC, forced by a federal appeals court to update the status of digital must-carry policy, said the issue has been decided, and the answer to anxious broadcasters is no to more than the primary digital signal.

The answer is not news FCC chairman Michael Powell has repeated it many times previously but some broadcasters aren't willing to take no for an answer. Lowell Paxson, one of them, brought the matter to the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, forcing the agency's response.

The FCC previously determined that digital stations' carriage rights are limited to one primary channel and do not include the additional multicast channels that digital transmission enables stations to offer. Powell has said that he and the majority of commissioners still support that policy. He has questioned the legality of requiring cable operators to transmit all of a broadcaster's signals.

Paxson, whose Paxson Communications is owner of a group of mostly UHF television stations, wants the FCC to require cable companies to carry all of the programming that TV stations can offer via their new digital spectrum.
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