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post #6421 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 07:21 AM
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Real test is Wheel of Fortune, since it is native 1080i, with the sparkling wheel.
ABC sports is 720p anyway so there should not be any degradation.
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post #6422 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundguy315 View Post

Real test is Wheel of Fortune, since it is native 1080i, with the sparkling wheel.
ABC sports is 720p anyway so there should not be any degradation.

I didn't realize LWN was going to be run in 16x9 SD... interesting...

Robert F Corbin

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post #6423 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by VARTV View Post
I didn't realize LWN was going to be run in 16x9 SD... interesting...
I appreciate the widescreen picture.

The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out.
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post #6424 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye911 View Post
I appreciate the widescreen picture.
Well, we get to see more of a blurry picture compared to 4:3 plus it's taking little more away from 13-1...

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post #6425 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 01:32 PM
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It shouldn't take any extra bandwidth to do wide SD. The only difference is that the pixels are rectangular rather than square.

- Trip

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post #6426 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
It shouldn't take any extra bandwidth to do wide SD. The only difference is that the pixels are rectangular rather than square.

- Trip
It's not being stretched...

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post #6427 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 04:39 PM
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I didn't say it was. I said the pixels are rectangular.

The video is 720x480i, which is 3:2. That translates to 13.5:9. That then is stretched to 16:9. The local station simply compensates for it at their end so when your display shows it at 16:9, it looks correct.

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post #6428 of 6676 Old 11-08-2010, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

I didn't say it was. I said the pixels are rectangular.

The video is 720x480i, which is 3:2. That translates to 13.5:9. That then is stretched to 16:9. The local station simply compensates for it at their end so when your display shows it at 16:9, it looks correct.

- Trip

Ah...

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post #6429 of 6676 Old 11-09-2010, 01:04 PM
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WTVZ turned up The Country Network on stream 5 (33-3) at 2:45this afternon (Tuesday 1-9-10). wb

Bill Barber
C.E., WTVZ-TV/DT
Norfolk, VA

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post #6430 of 6676 Old 11-09-2010, 01:50 PM
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WTVZ turned up The Country Network on stream 5 (33-3) at 2:45this afternon (Tuesday 1-9-10). wb

Time to rescan... again...

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post #6431 of 6676 Old 11-25-2010, 05:29 PM
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With FIOS I don't think I ve used OTA in over a year. There is just no need for the aggravation.
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post #6432 of 6676 Old 11-29-2010, 05:35 AM
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Was there an issue with WTKR last night during the broadcast of Amazing Race?

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post #6433 of 6676 Old 12-04-2010, 04:28 AM
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Isn't it funny how if you go back through this thread and see all of the engineers telling us that the commercials are on the same dB level as the shows.
Well, now they seem to finally be admitting that they are not.
Now Congress may get involved. I'm sure you all have seen the news stories about it.
Hate to say "We told you so"

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post #6434 of 6676 Old 12-04-2010, 04:42 AM
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Isn't it funny how if you go back through this thread and see all of the engineers telling us that the commercials are on the same dB level as the shows.
Well, now they seem to finally be admitting that they are not.
Now Congress may get involved. I'm sure you all have seen the news stories about it.
Hate to say "We told you so"

I've heard that since my family bought their first tv in 1954. We've seen it on this forum for years. The bottom line is the broadcasters can control it but are spinless to require their "advertisers" to conform to a level standard. Given that most of the advertisers now in Hampton Roads are ambulance chasing screaming and lying lawyers are we to expect anything else. At least now they will be required to do it.

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post #6435 of 6676 Old 12-04-2010, 08:16 AM
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Technically speaking, the levels are the same. What's different is the amount of compression.

For example, in a piece of audio, if I'm shouting it you, it will be louder than if I'm whispering. That makes sense, and in the programming, that's how it is.

In the commercial, EVERYTHING IS COMPRESSED SO EVEN THE WHISPER IS AT THE SAME VOLUME AS THE SHOUT. Because the shout is rarer in the program, it makes the commercial seems louder, but is actually at the same volume as the loudest segment of the program which may only be a few seconds per show.

If I've understood correctly, this law mandates that commercials now need to be at the average volume, rather than peak volume, of the program.

- Trip

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post #6436 of 6676 Old 12-04-2010, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

Technically speaking, the levels are the same. What's different is the amount of compression.

For example, in a piece of audio, if I'm shouting it you, it will be louder than if I'm whispering. That makes sense, and in the programming, that's how it is.

In the commercial, EVERYTHING IS COMPRESSED SO EVEN THE WHISPER IS AT THE SAME VOLUME AS THE SHOUT. Because the shout is rarer in the program, it makes the commercial seems louder, but is actually at the same volume as the loudest segment of the program which may only be a few seconds per show.

If I've understood correctly, this law mandates that commercials now need to be at the average volume, rather than peak volume, of the program.

- Trip

I understand that and so do the broadcasters who willingly allow this practice. It is not rocket science to do what now apparently is going to be mandated. The problem is the broadcasters refusing to be responsible for the content bowing to the advertisers who will do anything ethical or unethical to sell their product.

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post #6437 of 6676 Old 12-06-2010, 10:46 AM
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It's not rocket science, but it is a complex problem that you are dismissing. Unlike most radio programming, TV requires different processing at different times. The compression of sitcom audio is probably pretty high while compression of movie or dramatic programming is likely very light. Predicting what the peak of an audio source will be is not too difficult, but predicting the average power level of a source is hard without having played it back at least once.

Consider, too, that cable and DBS operators insert their own commercials on every channel and now you have at least three places where audio is mixed before you hear it.
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post #6438 of 6676 Old 12-06-2010, 01:35 PM
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Don't forget about the 5.1 to 2 channel and vice versa level issues.
I think the ATSC standard could have bridged the gap between HD/SD and 5.1/Stereo much better, too late now.
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post #6439 of 6676 Old 12-06-2010, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Loudin View Post
It's not rocket science, but it is a complex problem that you are dismissing. Unlike most radio programming, TV requires different processing at different times. The compression of sitcom audio is probably pretty high while compression of movie or dramatic programming is likely very light. Predicting what the peak of an audio source will be is not too difficult, but predicting the average power level of a source is hard without having played it back at least once.

Consider, too, that cable and DBS operators insert their own commercials on every channel and now you have at least three places where audio is mixed before you hear it.
It could have been and could be now if the broadcasters wanted to do it. Excuses are always available to provide the cover for inexcusable actions by those who are not being responsible.

It's funny that they will be able to do it now that it will be mandated. Face it the broadcasters will not stand up to the shyster lawyers hollering and screaming and the car dealers. Now thanks to congress they will have no choice and those caught violating the rules should have their broadcast license suspended for 30 days the first offense, 90 days the second and 12 months on the third and permanently on the forth.

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post #6440 of 6676 Old 12-07-2010, 06:35 AM
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It could have been and could be now if the broadcasters wanted to do it. Excuses are always available to provide the cover for inexcusable actions by those who are not being responsible.
You didn't take to heart what I wrote. Real-time audio processing technology works with the audio as it arrives, aiming to achieve the desired loudness while keeping peak levels within tolerance. For the most part, the audio sources mixed by a broadcaster will have some peak limiting and will generally already be near the same volumen. The "screaming lawyers and car dealers" spots have incredibly high average power (volume) due to the audio processing employed by the ads' producers. There's not much that can be done in real time to fix this, as the processing in the chain is set to squish dynamic range, not expand it.

Plus, most of the offending spots, I would wager, are NOT broadcast by the station but are inserted by the cable or DBS provider.
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post #6441 of 6676 Old 12-27-2010, 11:56 AM
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If the WTVZ representative reads this frequently, please take note that the TV Guide listings broadcast by 33-1 and 33-2 are swapped. I am not sure how long it has been this way but it would be nice if it was fixed.
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post #6442 of 6676 Old 12-27-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Loudin View Post

You didn't take to heart what I wrote. Real-time audio processing technology works with the audio as it arrives, aiming to achieve the desired loudness while keeping peak levels within tolerance. For the most part, the audio sources mixed by a broadcaster will have some peak limiting and will generally already be near the same volumen. The "screaming lawyers and car dealers" spots have incredibly high average power (volume) due to the audio processing employed by the ads' producers. There's not much that can be done in real time to fix this, as the processing in the chain is set to squish dynamic range, not expand it.

Plus, most of the offending spots, I would wager, are NOT broadcast by the station but are inserted by the cable or DBS provider.

The offending ones I see and hear are local commercials broadcast by the Hampton Roads stations like The Hammer screaming lawyer and Chesapeake Nisson.

The stations could stop it by refusing to run commercials that they can't control the audio levels on. It doesn't take a genius to realize the stations are scared to death of their advertisers power. The government will now hopefully force them to do what they should have been doing all along.

Harold Jackson
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post #6443 of 6676 Old 12-27-2010, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hjriver View Post

The offending ones I see and hear are local commercials broadcast by the Hampton Roads stations like The Hammer screaming lawyer and Chesapeake Nisson.

The stations could stop it by refusing to run commercials that they can't control the audio levels on. It doesn't take a genius to realize the stations are scared to death of their advertisers power. The government will now hopefully force them to do what they should have been doing all along.

The problem I have experienced is when you are watching a program in 5.2 audio and the local commercial is in 2.0 audio. On my surround sound system, the 2.0 audio always seems to be louder.
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post #6444 of 6676 Old 12-30-2010, 04:45 AM
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An engineer in another Thread stated that AntennaTV will start sending out a promo loop on the network feed before its launch on 1/1/11. It's a guess that WTKR will also run this because it means AntennaTV will start its programming at midnight with no need for an engineer (to be) at the station to do any switching...

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post #6445 of 6676 Old 01-02-2011, 01:31 PM
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Anyone notice a problem with channel 10?
Every minute or so (usually less) I see a little skip in the picture. I have an HD DVR so I rewind it and slowly step through the frames and at the point of the skip I see a still frame out of order cadence. For example if I watch in slow motion a portion of the video that's fine I see 4 regular frames then 1 copy of the last frame. If I watch where it skipped in slow motion I see maybe 3 frames then a copy of the last frame. After that it goes back to 4 and 1 and it looks normal.
I thought it was a problem on Directv's side but then I also get the problem with it OTA too. Not happening on other local channels.

I hope this makes sense...


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post #6446 of 6676 Old 01-02-2011, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundguy315 View Post

Don't forget about the 5.1 to 2 channel and vice versa level issues.
I think the ATSC standard could have bridged the gap between HD/SD and 5.1/Stereo much better, too late now.

I agree but that didn't happen The broadcasters will have to address the issue now. Something they should have already done.

Harold Jackson
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post #6447 of 6676 Old 01-02-2011, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betterdan View Post

Anyone notice a problem with channel 10?
Every minute or so (usually less) I see a little skip in the picture. I have an HD DVR so I rewind it and slowly step through the frames and at the point of the skip I see a still frame out of order cadence. For example if I watch in slow motion a portion of the video that's fine I see 4 regular frames then 1 copy of the last frame. If I watch where it skipped in slow motion I see maybe 3 frames then a copy of the last frame. After that it goes back to 4 and 1 and it looks normal.
I thought it was a problem on Directv's side but then I also get the problem with it OTA too. Not happening on other local channels.

I hope this makes sense...

I've seen it too.

Robert F Corbin

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post #6448 of 6676 Old 01-02-2011, 08:25 PM
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Thanks VARTV I wanted to make sure I wasn't going nuttier than Oprah's turds after eating a barrel of peanut brittle.


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post #6449 of 6676 Old 01-03-2011, 05:18 AM
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I haven't been keeping up with this thread for a while but is Les Garrenton from Wavy still participating here? I hope he knows about the problem on Wavy and is in the process of fixing it. It's kind of annoying.


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post #6450 of 6676 Old 01-03-2011, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by betterdan View Post

I haven't been keeping up with this thread for a while but is Les Garrenton from Wavy still participating here? I hope he knows about the problem on Wavy and is in the process of fixing it. It's kind of annoying.

It's distracting... I also looked at WKTD/17 and even their analog channels (23, 35, 52) and all had the same "skipping."

Robert F Corbin

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