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post #721 of 6677 Old 01-13-2005, 09:02 AM
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Originally posted by pdennant
We are digressing from the topic of the thread again... There IS a place for this type of discussion...it's just not here.

Thanx.

Peter, you're right. I actually thought this was on the other forum (if that really makes any difference)... Cheers, Bob

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post #722 of 6677 Old 01-13-2005, 07:00 PM
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Wickedly Perfect on CBS is listed as HD yet it is 4:3?
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post #723 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by vurbano
Wickedly Perfect on CBS is listed as HD yet it is 4:3?

I'm waiting for the first reality show to be in HD. A prime candidate? "The Amazing Race."

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post #724 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by VARTV
I'm waiting for the first reality show to be in HD. A prime candidate? "The Amazing Race."

I've often wondered why reality shows aren't in HD especially where the cameras are fixed like Big Brother. Are HD cameras big and cumbersome or what? You'd think with all the money Survivor is raking in Jeff Prost could afford some better video. Then again who really wants to see all those nasty dirty people in HD?
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post #725 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Digitude
I've often wondered why reality shows aren't in HD especially where the cameras are fixed like Big Brother. Are HD cameras big and cumbersome or what? You'd think with all the money Survivor is raking in Jeff Prost could afford some better video. Then again who really wants to see all those nasty dirty people in HD?

I think The Amazing Race would be a great show for it but it would take a dozen+ cams to do it...

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post #726 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 09:51 AM
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WTKR-DT

WTKR-DT 3.2 is running an ID logo in the bottom right corner. Until Monday it will be on all the time. Starting Monday, it will come on for 15 seconds and the top and bottom of each hour. I am waiting on a cable. The logo is being added per FCC rules that DTV sub-channels be ID'ed effective Feb. 1, 2005.

FYI. WTKR-DT has filed with FCC that it will remain on Channel 40 after the NTSC transition. WTKR-DT will also be at full power by the July 1, 2005 deadline.

Ted Hand, CPBE. 8VSB, DRB, AMD
I was there on July 23, 1996...First DTV broadcast in the US..WRAL-HD

Amateur Radio - W9SOC

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post #727 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by Theo1080
WTKR-DT

WTKR-DT 3.2 is running an ID logo in the bottom right corner. Until Monday it will be on all the time. Starting Monday, it will come on for 15 seconds and the top and bottom of each hour. I am waiting on a cable. The logo is being added per FCC rules that DTV sub-channels be ID'ed effective Feb. 1, 2005.

FYI. WTKR-DT has filed with FCC that it will remain on Channel 40 after the NTSC transition. WTKR-DT will also be at full power by the July 1, 2005 deadline.

That's good news (I hope) to hear. Does that also mean that all will have to go to full power also?

Harold Jackson
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post #728 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 10:57 AM
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FYI. WTKR-DT has filed with FCC that it will remain on Channel 40 after the NTSC transition. WTKR-DT will also be at full power by the July 1, 2005 deadline.

That's great news, Ted. The lower VHF channels would be a bear for most to get with present UHF set-ups.
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post #729 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 11:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by hjriver
Does that also mean that all will have to go to full power also?

Does this mean WTVZ-DT?

Quote:


Originally posted by raycer
The lower VHF channels would be a bear for most to get with present UHF set-ups.

I'm curious what Independent "SKY4" WSKY Manteo will do? They have a CP for a DTV on channel 4. Are they waiting to see what other stations are doing in the area before making a final channel choice??? Their digital signal will come from Moyock...

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post #730 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by hjriver
That's good news (I hope) to hear. Does that also mean that all will have to go to full power also?

The requirement is that all DTV stations operate at fully licensed power by July 1st, 2005, or, possibly, forfeit their right to do so if another station on the same or adjacent channel decides to increase their power. Basically, it is a use it or (possibly) lose it situation.

The primary beneficiaries of the power increase will be those viewers farthest from the transmitter sites in Driver. There is a potential drawback that will effect some: When the power density of the signal is increased, the reflected power density of that signal (multipath) will increase proportionally. So, if you have a situation where the reflected, or multipath, signal is marginal, an increase in signal density could cause enough of a Bit Error Rate {BER} to effect reception.

Quote:


Originally posted by VARTV
Does this mean WTVZ-DT?

Yes.

Peter Dennant
XBE Group
[former Director of Engineering for WVEC-TV/DT]
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post #731 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 01:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pdennant
The requirement is that all DTV stations operate at fully licensed power by July 1st, 2005, or, possibly, forfeit their right to do so if another station on the same or adjacent channel decides to increase their power.

There is a potential drawback that will effect some: When the power density of the signal is increased, the reflected power density of that signal (multipath) will increase proportionally. So, if you have a situation where the reflected, or multipath, signal is marginal, an increase in signal density could cause enough of a Bit Error Rate {BER} to effect reception.

No problem where I'm located... If TVZ goes full power by 7/1, I'll be able to adjust my antenna slightly to also get WUND-DT...

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post #732 of 6677 Old 01-14-2005, 03:16 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Digitude
I've often wondered why reality shows aren't in HD especially where the cameras are fixed like Big Brother. Are HD cameras big and cumbersome or what? You'd think with all the money Survivor is raking in Jeff Prost could afford some better video. Then again who really wants to see all those nasty dirty people in HD?

Actually, JVC makes an HD camera that is relatively small. It isn't much bigger than the typical Sony cams we use now. How reliable they are remains to be seen. I saw one at an SBE meeting last year.

Bill Bibeau, CBT
Retired Broadcasting Engineer
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post #733 of 6677 Old 01-15-2005, 06:06 PM
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You may or may not be aware of the fact that for several years WAVY Broadcasting, LLC has operated several Class A and LPTV television stations in the region in addition to our full power analog and digital stations. These Class A's and LPTV's typically rebroadcast either WAVY or WVBT programming and are supplemental to the over-the-air coverage of our full power stations.

In anticipation of the day that the FCC will require these smaller stations to convert to digital operation, early last year we began planning for converting the first two of them. The actual construction work for the conversions has been underway for the last 3 months, culminating with the start of operation with Program Tests on WKTD-CD last night at around 8PM and on WNLO-CD this afternoon just after 5PM. We believe that these are the first two Class A or LPTV stations in the country to be converted to digital operation, since the FCC has indicated to us that these are the first two TSID assignments they've given out for Class A stations.

WKTD-CD is broadcasting on physical UHF channel 17 and WNLO-CD is broadcasting on physical UHF channel 45, and DTV receivers will display them as 17-1 and 45-1 respectively. Antennas for both stations are co-located on our main transmitting tower in Suffolk just below the WVBT-DT antenna at just over 700-Ft elevation. Effective radiated power (ERP) for each station will be 15kW, the maximum allowed by the FCC for Class A or LPTV stations. While that pales in comparison to the 1,000kW ERP broadcasts of WAVY-DT and WVBT-DT, nonetheless the signal has been rock solid at my house in Chicks Beach with an attic antenna with very gusty winds. Another report from northern Suffolk just west of Churchland was surprising in that the receiver's signal quality indicator seems to like the WKTD-CD signal even better than the full powers, I suspect due to multipath reflections being lower in amplitude as a result of the lower power signal.

These stations are only equipped with SD encoders, not HD units. Also, we still don't have the digital microwave link set up yet from the studio, so for now we are simply feeding the SD encoders the same analog video and audio feeds that our WAVY and WVBT analog transmitters currently use. When the digital microwave goes into service and the SD encoders can be moved back to the studio the current analog video and audio sources will simply be replaced with the the digital video and audio sources available there.

At any rate here's the audience participation part of the show... We are of course very interested in what kind of coverage we are getting out there, so if you care to rescan your receivers when you get a chance I would appreciate hearing from you and whether you're getting these two new digital stations reliably or not. Be sure to mention your location and whether you're using an indoor, outdoor, or attic antenna.

Not that I would expect it to, but you might also want to notice if it has affected any of the adjacent channels, namely WHRO-DT (physical channel 16, virtual channel 15) or WPXV-DT (physical channel 46, virtual channel 49). At my house I can see no problems at all.

Thanks in advance for your comments!
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post #734 of 6677 Old 01-15-2005, 06:50 PM
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Les
I just checked the two channels you mentioned, and can see and hear them with no problems.
Currently on 45-1 I have a great SD picture of the Falcons/Rams game showing AC-3 DD 2.0 on the Lexicon

On 17-1, I see the Concert of Hope also showing AC-3 DD 2.0

Using HD Tivo
Located in Churchland section of Portsmouth
Using Outdoor antenna on roof
Also no problems with adjacent channels 15-1 or 49-1

BTW. Excellent PQ and DD 5.1 on 43-1 for the game
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post #735 of 6677 Old 01-15-2005, 08:05 PM
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Les,
Getting 17-1. Not getting 45-1. No interference. Using HDTIVO on inside attic antenna. Located very near Virginia Beach General Hospital.

Drew
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post #736 of 6677 Old 01-15-2005, 09:15 PM
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Les, I can't get in either of the channels at the moment. 15-1 is coming in fine for me. 49-1 is breaking up a lot, but that's not really unusual for me. I live just east of Great Bridge and have an attic yagi. This was using the tuner in my Hitachi HDTV. When I have time, I'll try a rescan on the HDTiVo.
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post #737 of 6677 Old 01-15-2005, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by obxdiver
BTW. Excellent PQ and DD 5.1 on 43-1 for the game

Interesting because I was going to mention is seemed more artifacty (is that a real word?? ) than usual. It just wasn't real sharp.
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post #738 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Les Garrenton
You may or may not be aware of the fact that for several years WAVY Broadcasting, LLC has operated several Class A and LPTV television stations in the region in addition to our full power analog and digital stations. These Class A's and LPTV's typically rebroadcast either WAVY or WVBT programming and are supplemental to the over-the-air coverage of our full power stations.

In anticipation of the day that the FCC will require these smaller stations to convert to digital operation, early last year we began planning for converting the first two of them. The actual construction work for the conversions has been underway for the last 3 months, culminating with the start of operation with Program Tests on WKTD-CD last night at around 8PM and on WNLO-CD this afternoon just after 5PM. We believe that these are the first two Class A or LPTV stations in the country to be converted to digital operation, since the FCC has indicated to us that these are the first two TSID assignments they've given out for Class A stations.

WKTD-CD is broadcasting on physical UHF channel 17 and WNLO-CD is broadcasting on physical UHF channel 45, and DTV receivers will display them as 17-1 and 45-1 respectively. Antennas for both stations are co-located on our main transmitting tower in Suffolk just below the WVBT-DT antenna at just over 700-Ft elevation. Effective radiated power (ERP) for each station will be 15kW, the maximum allowed by the FCC for Class A or LPTV stations. While that pales in comparison to the 1,000kW ERP broadcasts of WAVY-DT and WVBT-DT, nonetheless the signal has been rock solid at my house in Chicks Beach with an attic antenna with very gusty winds. Another report from northern Suffolk just west of Churchland was surprising in that the receiver's signal quality indicator seems to like the WKTD-CD signal even better than the full powers, I suspect due to multipath reflections being lower in amplitude as a result of the lower power signal.

These stations are only equipped with SD encoders, not HD units. Also, we still don't have the digital microwave link set up yet from the studio, so for now we are simply feeding the SD encoders the same analog video and audio feeds that our WAVY and WVBT analog transmitters currently use. When the digital microwave goes into service and the SD encoders can be moved back to the studio the current analog video and audio sources will simply be replaced with the the digital video and audio sources available there.

At any rate here's the audience participation part of the show... We are of course very interested in what kind of coverage we are getting out there, so if you care to rescan your receivers when you get a chance I would appreciate hearing from you and whether you're getting these two new digital stations reliably or not. Be sure to mention your location and whether you're using an indoor, outdoor, or attic antenna.

Not that I would expect it to, but you might also want to notice if it has affected any of the adjacent channels, namely WHRO-DT (physical channel 16, virtual channel 15) or WPXV-DT (physical channel 46, virtual channel 49). At my house I can see no problems at all.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

Les, can't get them here in Mathews. I do have a question though. Why does WAVY operate these two low power stations (maybe more) transmitting the same programming that the full power 10 and 43 are already providing? Given they are low power they could not possibly reach anyone not already being served by 10 and 43.

Harold Jackson
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post #739 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 08:42 AM
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I get 17 and not 45. Now comes the first question that came to mind and that I know the answer to. Are you ready? Does this mean that you can now make a deal with Cox and forego the subchannels on cable? :-)

Just thought I'd ask....
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post #740 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 08:56 AM
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Thanks for the quick reports guys. They have both been rock solid for me since yesterday.

Drew it's odd that you can get 17-1 and not 45-1 since you're not all that far from me and on my receiver 45-1 actually shows up to be slightly better on the signal level meter than 17-1, although that reading might be being affected by WPXV-DT's adjacent physical channel 46 right next door to us. I noticed that when they signed off after midnight last night my receiver's signal level bar graph showed a slight decrease for 45-1 to a point where it matched 17-1, but this morning with WPXV-DT back up the 45-1 level had notched back up to where it was.

Todd, you should be getting plenty of signal in Great Bridge, so I'm curious what will happen when you rescan.

obx, thanks for your report as well.
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post #741 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hjriver
Les, can't get them here in Mathews. I do have a question though. Why does WAVY operate these two low power stations (maybe more) transmitting the same programming that the full power 10 and 43 are already providing? Given they are low power they could not possibly reach anyone not already being served by 10 and 43.

harold, I was the most curious about whether you could receive them since the predicted coverage for both of them stops just a bit short of Mathews. Please let me know if that ever changes.

As far as why we operate our Class A and LPTV stations, let me just say that people up the line who make a lot more money than me haven't ever really answered that question for me either. Nevertheless, it's part of our job to keep them running. Actually we do have one LPTV up on the Eastern Shore that does serve to extend our coverage of WVBT FOX43, and before we converted channel 17 to digital we did have some viewers using it to pull in WAVY programming over-the-air around the Elizabeth River in Norfolk and Portsmouth because of interference from a powerful FM radio station nearby.


Quote:
Originally posted by robertawillisjr
I get 17 and not 45. Now comes the first question that came to mind and that I know the answer to. Are you ready? Does this mean that you can now make a deal with Cox and forgo the subchannels on cable? :-)

Prior to the digital conversion channel 45 was our most powerful Class A analog station with great coverage on the Penisula. I recently talked to someone else there in Hampton that was receiving it fine, so I'm a little surprised that your receiver didn't lock onto it after the digital conversion. The areas I was the most concerned about were within 3-4 miles of Driver where WPXV-DT had previously caused analog channel 45 a lot of interference. Farther away than that and the interference wasn't as apparent.

I'm not the right person to ask, but I don't see how it would affect anything unless Cox was to agree to carry WKTD-CD and WNLO-CD, the odds of which are probably less than them giving me lifetime free cable at my house. I'm not going to argue the politics here, but the principle remains the same that Cox should have to devote the same 6MHz channel bandwidth to us as they always have and not use this transition to steal back bandwidth by picking and choosing.
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post #742 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 10:05 AM
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For a month or so I have had an occasional brief drop out on WTKR-DT. These have been very brief, just a few seconds, and only two or three per hour. Yesterday I checked my received signal strength on WTKR-DT and it is half of what I had recorded in my log book about six months ago. All the other local DT stations are showing the same signal strength as six months ago. Has something changed at WTKR-DT? I know that some time ago they lost one or two of their final power amplifier tubes but I thought they were back on line now. I checked WTKR-DT with two different OTA antennas and two different digital tuners and all showed me getting WTKR-DT at half the level I used to get them. Anybody else notice a reduction in WTKR-DT signal strength?
Earl
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post #743 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earl Dunham
For a month or so I have had an occasional brief drop out on WTKR-DT. These have been very brief, just a few seconds, and only two or three per hour. Yesterday I checked my received signal strength on WTKR-DT and it is half of what I had recorded in my log book about six months ago. All the other local DT stations are showing the same signal strength as six months ago. Has something changed at WTKR-DT? I know that some time ago they lost one or two of their final power amplifier tubes but I thought they were back on line now. I checked WTKR-DT with two different OTA antennas and two different digital tuners and all showed me getting WTKR-DT at half the level I used to get them. Anybody else notice a reduction in WTKR-DT signal strength?
Earl

They must still be on one output tube. My signal for WTKR is 50. All the rest are 70+.

Harold Jackson
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post #744 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 11:33 AM
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Les,

No problem getting 17-1 WKTD. About the same strength as WTKR-DT and WTVZ-DT. 45-1 is hovering in the low 20s for me, not enough for a lock...

I'm just south of PA and Seaboard Rds in Virginia Beach (one mile due east of the Courthouse). "HILLTOP SAILOR" states he too can't receive 45-1. He's located about 9 miles north of me...

Using DirecTV's HD-TiVo with a CM 4228 in the attic...

By the way, what does the "-CD" designation mean? The calls for the analog side are WKTD-CA...

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post #745 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by VARTV
No problem getting 17-1 WKTD. About the same strength as WTKR-DT and WTVZ-DT. 45-1 is hovering in the low 20s for me, not enough for a lock...

I'm just south of PA and Seaboard Rds in Virginia Beach (one mile due east of the Courthouse). "HILLTOP SAILOR" states he too can't receive 45-1. He's located about 9 miles north of me...

Interesting that there would be that much difference from where I am in North VB and mid/South VB. Thanks for the report.


Quote:
By the way, what does the "-CD" designation mean? The calls for the analog side are WKTD-CA...

From the FCC Report & Order proceeding #04-220:


§ 74.791 - Digital call signs.

(c) Digital low power television stations and Class A television stations.

Digital low power television and Class A television stations may be assigned a call sign with a four-letter prefix pursuant to Section 73.3550 of Part 73 of the rules. Digital low power stations with four-letter prefixes will be assigned the suffix -LD and digital Class A stations with four-letter prefixes will be assigned the suffix -CD.
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post #746 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 01:50 PM
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Originally posted by Les Garrenton
Interesting that there would be that much difference from where I am in North VB and mid/South VB. Thanks for the report.




From the FCC Report & Order proceeding #04-220:


§ 74.791 - Digital call signs.

(c) Digital low power television stations and Class A television stations.

Digital low power television and Class A television stations may be assigned a call sign with a four-letter prefix pursuant to Section 73.3550 of Part 73 of the rules. Digital low power stations with four-letter prefixes will be assigned the suffix -LD and digital Class A stations with four-letter prefixes will be assigned the suffix -CD.

Les... Thanks for the FCC R&O!

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post #747 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Earl Dunham
Has something changed at WTKR-DT? .... I checked WTKR-DT with two different OTA antennas and two different digital tuners and all showed me getting WTKR-DT at half the level I used to get them. Anybody else notice a reduction in WTKR-DT signal strength?
Earl

I thought it was just me. I also am having troubles with WTKR-DT. I have an outdoor antenna on the roof, and never have troubles with any station. But yesterday and today, I am having severe drop-outs on 3-1. Signal strength on 3-1 is in low 60's and bouncing all over the place. All other stations show a strength of 90 or above for me. I was thinking that the strongs winds of Friday moved my antenna.
Not a good day for troubles with 3-1.
Anyone else having problems with 3-1??
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post #748 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by obxdiver
I thought it was just me. I also am having troubles with WTKR-DT. I have an outdoor antenna on the roof, and never have troubles with any station. But yesterday and today, I am having severe drop-outs on 3-1. Signal strength on 3-1 is in low 60's and bouncing all over the place. All other stations show a strength of 90 or above for me. I was thinking that the strongs winds of Friday moved my antenna.
Not a good day for troubles with 3-1.
Anyone else having problems with 3-1??

I think they still are on one tube. I'm getting a rock solid picture and audio with a 50 signal level. No observed drops or freezes.

Harold Jackson
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post #749 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by obxdiver
Not a good day for troubles with 3-1.
Anyone else having problems with 3-1??

No problems here...

The only reception problems I have is with WAVY-DT on windier (is that spelled correctly?) days...

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post #750 of 6677 Old 01-16-2005, 05:02 PM
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I've been having more problems than I originally had with 3-1 for many months now. Just a little wind will cause breakups.
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