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post #751 of 6676 Old 01-16-2005, 04:16 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
I've been having more problems than I originally had with 3-1 for many months now. Just a little wind will cause breakups.

That's Wavy for me...

Robert F Corbin

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post #752 of 6676 Old 01-16-2005, 06:14 PM
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Could someone clarify what is being shown on WKTD-CD and WNLO-CD? And for that matter, what's being shown on all of the LIN-owned Class A stations? I am especially curious about the Mappsville one. When I visited Chincoteague a few years ago, I brought along my watchman TV and had dead air on WPMC-CA 36, so I wasn't able to find out what was normally on that (I would guess WVBT, but I have no idea).

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post #753 of 6676 Old 01-16-2005, 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Trip in VA
Could someone clarify what is being shown on WKTD-CD and WNLO-CD? And for that matter, what's being shown on all of the LIN-owned Class A stations? I am especially curious about the Mappsville one. When I visited Chincoteague a few years ago, I brought along my watchman TV and had dead air on WPMC-CA 36, so I wasn't able to find out what was normally on that (I would guess WVBT, but I have no idea).

For the program tests being conducted this weekend WKTD-CD is carrying a WAVY feed and WNLO-CD is carrying a WVBT feed. WPMC-CA in Mappsville began carrying WVBT programming a few months ago. I have no idea what is being carried on LIN-owned Class A's in other markets, except that I think that UPN may be carried in the Grand Rapids market.
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post #754 of 6676 Old 01-16-2005, 08:52 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Les Garrenton
For the program tests being conducted this weekend WKTD-CD is carrying a WAVY feed and WNLO-CD is carrying a WVBT feed. WPMC-CA in Mappsville began carrying WVBT programming a few months ago. I have no idea what is being carried on LIN-owned Class A's in other markets, except that I think that UPN may be carried in the Grand Rapids market.

I was referring to the other LIN LPTVs in this market. I find it a bit redundant to have 6 or 7 LP stations all carrying the same programming that's also found on a full-powered analog.

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post #755 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by VARTV
That's Wavy for me...

Hi Bob,
Well, I've noticed that the strength is down a tad here on WTKR-DT, but I do not have any troubles with breakup. I watched my beloved Patriots yesterday and not one artifact or breakup for that or 60 Minutes after the game. Even though 60 Minutes wasn't in HD, the reception was perfect.

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post #756 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 08:44 AM
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Originally posted by BillBibeau
Hi Bob,
Well, I've noticed that the strength is down a tad here on WTKR-DT, but I do not have any troubles with breakup. I watched my beloved Patriots yesterday and not one artifact or breakup for that or 60 Minutes after the game. Even though 60 Minutes wasn't in HD, the reception was perfect.

It's been perfect on my end also, even with a 50 signal strength. I'm still convinced that the higher the signal strength the more multi-path problems.

Harold Jackson
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post #757 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by Les Garrenton
Todd, you should be getting plenty of signal in Great Bridge, so I'm curious what will happen when you rescan.

I just did a rescan with my HDTiVo and still nothing. I'm getting ready to move my antenna to a new location in my attic so I'll try it again after that....
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post #758 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 12:04 PM
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Well, I've spent the last couple of hours re-arranging a few things in my attic and screwing around with my antennas to see if I can get it working better. This is such a pain! But anyway, I've now switched to my 4221 bow-tie antenna and have it hanging from the roof in a position that seems to be working better. While I'm sure this will probably change tonight , I am getting in most everything pretty good right now (at least the main channels anyway), even with the wind outside. However, 33-1 doesn't work at all anymore, but I don't really care since I don't watch it. 27-1 and 15-1 are now seeing a fair number of breakups though. Maybe this will improve when the wind calms down. The other channels are solid right now, which is pretty good with the wind as it is.

Les, I checked for those new stations and I get 17-1 in, but with a lot of breakups. I briefly saw 45-1, but it wasn't coming in good enough for HDTiVo to lock on to it.

BTW, the station management around here (except WTKR and WHRO of course) are going to have to rethink their opposition to their HD channels being on COX. Most people will not put up with this antenna nonsense. A few will get lucky and get everything in without much trouble, but many others won't. Hopefully DirecTV will get the local HD channels up in the not too distant future too...
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post #759 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 12:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Well, I've spent the last couple of hours re-arranging a few things in my attic and screwing around with my antennas to see if I can get it working better. This is such a pain! But anyway, I've now switched to my 4221 bow-tie antenna and have it hanging from the roof in a position that seems to be working better. While I'm sure this will probably change tonight , I am getting in most everything pretty good right now (at least the main channels anyway), even with the wind outside. However, 33-1 doesn't work at all anymore, but I don't really care since I don't watch it. 27-1 and 15-1 are now seeing a fair number of breakups though. Maybe this will improve when the wind calms down. The other channels are solid right now, which is pretty good with the wind as it is.

Les, I checked for those new stations and I get 17-1 in, but with a lot of breakups. I briefly saw 45-1, but it wasn't coming in good enough for HDTiVo to lock on to it.

BTW, the station management around here (except WTKR and WHRO of course) are going to have to rethink their opposition to their HD channels being on COX. Most people will not put up with this antenna nonsense. A few will get lucky and get everything in without much trouble, but many others won't. Hopefully DirecTV will get the local HD channels up in the not too distant future too...

Your situation appears a lot like mine used to be. ( I even recall you trying an antenuator, didnt help me either.) I just couldnt take the attic work anymore. It will kick your butt unless you have a really big one, not to mention the heat in the summer. The facts are right now an antenna is the only way to get everything local. Life is a lot easier with a remote control rotor. Life without one is just a hassle. In a perfect world I shouldnt need one. nor should i need an amp. But 15-1 and 27-1 and 33-1 seem to require adjustments sometimes. I just couldnt deal with the frustration anymore. Install the rotor Todd it will lower your blood pressure.

I agree with your final assessment that most newbies wont put up with it. And when experienced OTA users like yourself have problems it does raise questions about the effectiveness of this delivery method for digital signals.
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post #760 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 12:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Well, I've spent the last couple of hours re-arranging a few things in my attic and screwing around with my antennas to see if I can get it working better. This is such a pain! But anyway, I've now switched to my 4221 bow-tie antenna and have it hanging from the roof in a position that seems to be working better.

Todd, I appreciate the effort and your reporting back here. Please don't go to too much trouble. Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried inserting an attenuator in the path between the antenna and your receiver just to see if that calmed things down? I assume that you're not running a preamp.

By the way, we'll probably still be tinkering with things throughout the week on both of those transmitters in an effort to improve performance issues like signal to noise, etc.
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post #761 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 12:25 PM
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Originally posted by Les Garrenton
Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried inserting an attenuator in the path between the antenna and your receiver just to see if that calmed things down?

Well nevermind, I guess Vurbano just answered that one.
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post #762 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by Les Garrenton
Todd, I appreciate the effort and your reporting back here. Please don't go to too much trouble. Just out of curiosity, have you ever tried inserting an attenuator in the path between the antenna and your receiver just to see if that calmed things down? I assume that you're not running a preamp.

By the way, we'll probably still be tinkering with things throughout the week on both of those transmitters in an effort to improve performance issues like signal to noise, etc.

No pre-amp and I put in an adjustable attenuator a few months ago but all it seemed to do was to reduce the strength of the signal. It didn't seem to help multi-path.
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post #763 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 01:05 PM
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a steady reading of 24 on hughes e86 HIRD reciver is all I can get on 17-1 in newport news. 45-1 is watchable with slight multipathing.
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post #764 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by Todd
No pre-amp and I put in an adjustable attenuator a few months ago but all it seemed to do was to reduce the strength of the signal. It didn't seem to help multi-path.

Thats what it did to me too when trying to solve the puzzle I have with 27-1. It still multipathed just at a lower scale, as well as reducing the signal strengths of all stations across the board. For some reason pointing the antenna a few degrees back and adding amplification was the only way I could solve the problem. Makes no sense to need an amp at this range but I do.
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post #765 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 01:46 PM
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Attn. Mr. Les

I rescanned my Zenith HDV420 receiver and am picking up both 17 and 45 with a normal or slightly better signal strength. No problems with adjacent channels. Using a CM 4228 antenna in the top attic of a 1-1/2 story home in the Haygood area of VB.
John
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post #766 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 01:53 PM
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To any of the Peninsula viewers out there.

Summertime is coming up and one of my favorite quick getaway spots is NN Park for camping and the bike trails.

I was at one time using a "D" dish for TV viewing, (if I was luck enough to find the bird through the trees) but now have no subscription. What do you think my chances are of picking up the digital locals out there? (May have to change my RV's antenna.
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post #767 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 04:43 PM
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way to many trees JK.
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post #768 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hjriver
It's been perfect on my end also, even with a 50 signal strength. I'm still convinced that the higher the signal strength the more multi-path problems.

You might be right Harold! A lot depends of the strength of the signals to start. In my case, being so close to the towers, I'm sure I've got RF bouncing around up the ying yang! If someone is further out with the strength being less, then an attenuator might not help as much.

Bill Bibeau, CBT
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post #769 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 05:40 PM
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I will say that since I put in the other antenna today, 3-1 has been a steady 68% and totally solid, even with the wind. So it certainly is possible to get a solid signal at a lower signal strength.
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post #770 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by Todd
I will say that since I put in the other antenna today, 3-1 has been a steady 68% and totally solid, even with the wind. So it certainly is possible to get a solid signal at a lower signal strength.

I'm getting a 50 on WTKR and 70 or so on all the rest. No multi-path on any of them. My DTC-100 will actually lock on about 40 levels.

Harold Jackson
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post #771 of 6676 Old 01-17-2005, 06:40 PM
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Originally posted by vurbano
way to many trees JK.

Yes, It was a crap shoot using the dish, depending on the campsite location and leaf density.

I was able to get some analog broadcasting there....I thought digital was suppose to be "better"!
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post #772 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 01:55 AM
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Les,

Was able to pick WNLO this morning at 4:45. Did a rescan to add the channel to my box. Readings were in the mid 40s to mid 50s. Never a steady number. All other stations were steady including WKTD (mid to upper 60s). I was getting WTVZ-DT the strongest I've ever seen here -- a solid 71. The wind outside isn't affecting my reception here.

I'm going to check WNLO just before 6AM (right before PXVs sign-on) and then right after their sign-on to see any differences...


UPDATE: PXV was late signing on today... oops. Still can receive WNLO but the signal strength is dropping a bit BUT still solid ~ low/mid 40s...

Robert F Corbin

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post #773 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by VARTV
The wind outside isn't affecting my reception here.

I see wind related comments all of the time here. Will someone please explain how wind affects RF propagation?
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post #774 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 05:39 AM
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I received 45 when I checked yesterday.

Digitude,

To make a very long and complicated story short, anything that traverses the air can somehow be affected. I don't know if you are old enough, but when I was in Maine, I could often get Wolfman Jack on AM at night. RF waves are affected by "ducting", thermal changes, rain and a few other more esoteric atmospheric conditions. Tidewater has a variety of natural features which can cause atmospherics that negatively affect an OTA signal.

Oh, Wolfman's station was located in Del Rio, Texas.
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post #775 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 05:54 AM
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Originally posted by robertawillisjr
I received 45 when I checked yesterday.

Digitude,

To make a very long and complicated story short, anything that traverses the air can somehow be affected. I don't know if you are old enough, but when I was in Maine, I could often get Wolfman Jack on AM at night. RF waves are affected by "ducting", thermal changes, rain and a few other more esoteric atmospheric conditions. Tidewater has a variety of natural features which can cause atmospherics that negatively affect an OTA signal.


Yeah, I'm pretty old and spent much of my career working on SHF LOS, EHF and other RF systems. I understand ducting due to temperature inversions and rain attenuation etc. Somehow I missed the chapter on wind attenuation. Or is this the i didn't screw my antenna down tight enough and now its flapping in the breeze effect or tree limbs are waving around in front of my antenna effect
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post #776 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 09:35 AM
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i didn't screw my antenna down tight enough and now its flapping in the breeze effect or tree limbs are waving around in front of my antenna effect

That too.
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post #777 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by Digitude
I didn't screw my antenna down tight enough and now its flapping in the breeze effect or tree limbs are waving around in front of my antenna effect.

Yes.

Peter Dennant
XBE Group
[former Director of Engineering for WVEC-TV/DT]
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post #778 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by pdennant
Yes.

Oh... then I have pine cone attenuation. During high winds hard green pine cones fall and whack my antenna.
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post #779 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 05:12 PM
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Les,

American Idol is not showing up in HD here on 43-1. It is in other parts of the country.

Thanks.
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post #780 of 6676 Old 01-18-2005, 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by Todd
Les,

American Idol is not showing up in HD here on 43-1. It is in other parts of the country.

Thanks.

No HD here either.

Dale
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