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post #181 of 6677 Old 11-12-2004, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bfoster
Harold,

Again, IMO, you are WAY off base. Drew had a well thought out post asking what the average viewer, that does not see this thread, would think about this wonderful event called the DTV Transition.

This viewer could have layed out $1500.00 for a HDTV, $200 for a ATSC tuner to watch MNF in glorious HD and BAM WVEC (Sorry Peter just an example ) has a problem and the game is in SD.

Now in this example $1700 is not an astronmical sum of money for an HDTV, heck SD RPTVs can cost this much. My viewer's wife wanted the $800 32" console to match the coffee table, but with the help of the CC, BB, Dome's salesman he was able to convince her to go HD.

Now this viewer, a couple of his buddies and his wife are looking at this square picture with 'IN HD WHERE AVAILABLE' on the screen. Wife has this look on her face, viewer says but the Green Sheet and the salesman said it would be in HD! Harry Potter was in HD last Saturday!

Now Harold, was my viewer trying to get the equipment to perform a task it was not able to do, by mis-application or by design? Or did a %$##$% chip in an encoder at WVEC's transmitter die? Or maybe a raving lunatic at the Footbal Stadium fired a grenade launcher at the HD production truck?

Peter and George both (well it took George two tries ) gave courteous and reasonable explanations and you claim:



All of the local Engineers seem to be stand up technical guys that want to broadcast the best available, but that have corporate lines to toe, which unfortunately doesn't always equal best engineering practices.

EACH of us are entitled to our own opinions.

I really don't think you need to slam every comment on this thread that is not pro OTA or pro multicasting.

Brian

Like I sad "In a perfect world there would be no problems". I take it you and several others have never made a mistake, failed to follow all instructions and operated all your equipment by the book with no deviation and nothing you own has ever broke. I for one have made many mistakes in my 61 years and have realistic expectations on the reality of human and equipment problems.




I get very tired of a couple of posters constantly badgering the dedicated technical staff who have enabled many of us to be able to receive their digital signals. That part of what you posted I agree with but the staff on this forum has nothing at all to do with it so why the constant badgering and whining?

This thread is not the proper one for this discussion. If you want to continue switch to the other one.

Harold Jackson
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post #182 of 6677 Old 11-12-2004, 06:53 PM
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No Harold this is VERY OTA related.

Drew asked:

Quote:
My question: Is there any engineering reason for this omission or has no one ever thought about doing it? Seems like a good idea to me.

Peter answered:

Quote:
Simple reason: We do not have the Master Control facilities - or operators - to facilitate this type of action.

The MCO is focused on our (money making) analog product. The HD operation is slaved to the analog operation through the automation system. This is not the ideal situation nor one that I am happy with. However, given what I have to work with and the priorities of the company/corporation, it is the way it is. Your continued comments will help make it better over time.

George answered (finally ) :

Quote:
To give a serious answer to you, I really don't have a way of telling the viewers of our DTV station when there is a problem. We don't have an HD character generator to put written notices on the screen. Newspapers are too slow. When we are off the air, well, see the WKRP example.

Drew replied:

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, the examples I have just mentioned were not meant to be cheap shots at the stations. They only demonstrate my point that bad things can happen to good people over an extended period of time at both ends of the transmission.


You chimed in:

Quote:
Constantly whining about the broadcasters is not constructive and will do little to change anything.


What part of this exchange are you missing? Question asked, answer provided. Where was the "badgering"?

OTA Broadcast has historically been a very reliable medium. The average viewer (not reading this thread) is going to continue to expect this. We know this new technology is still developing and equipment is improving, but one day ATSC is going to be the norm not the exception. Got the Sear's flyer in the paper ALL RPTVs were HDTV, no SD.

Nowhere in Drew's post or in my example did we fault anyone for a failure. The point is how does the average viewer figure out that there is a problem in New York and WVEC is not getting the HD Feed? Do I expect Peter to rush to his General Manager's office Monday morning with a capital req for a HD character generator? No, but by Drew asking the question I know that is why there are no crawls for hurricane watches on the HD channel and it reminds the stations of some of the little things. Not that they need any reminding from us

Brian
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post #183 of 6677 Old 11-12-2004, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bfoster
No Harold this is VERY OTA related.

Drew asked:



Peter answered:



George answered (finally ) :



Drew replied:




You chimed in:




What part of this exchange are you missing? Question asked, answer provided. Where was the "badgering"?

OTA Broadcast has historically been a very reliable medium. The average viewer (not reading this thread) is going to continue to expect this. We know this new technology is still developing and equipment is improving, but one day ATSC is going to be the norm not the exception. Got the Sear's flyer in the paper ALL RPTVs were HDTV, no SD.

Nowhere in Drew's post or in my example did we fault anyone for a failure. The point is how does the average viewer figure out that there is a problem in New York and WVEC is not getting the HD Feed? Do I expect Peter to rush to his General Manager's office Monday morning with a capital req for a HD character generator? No, but by Drew asking the question I know that is why there are no crawls for hurricane watches on the HD channel and it reminds the stations of some of the little things. Not that they need any reminding from us

Brian

I'm not taking up any more space on this thread on this subject. It's clear we are 180 degrees apart and more discussion would not produce any positive results. I'll be glad to continue on the other thread but as for this subject on this thread, I will not respond.

Harold Jackson
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post #184 of 6677 Old 11-12-2004, 08:11 PM
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Station Engineers,

Just want to let you know the rain is not effecting your signals tonight. The CM-4228 is doing it's job..... all are rock steady.

Still am disappointed in WVEC's parent company for not airing Saving Private Ryan. Had to watch it on Directv NY non-HD feed.

Harold Jackson
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post #185 of 6677 Old 11-12-2004, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hjriver
Station Engineers,

Just want to let you know the rain is not effecting your signals tonight. The CM-4228 is doing it's job..... all are rock steady.

Still am disappointed in WVEC's parent company for not airing Saving Private Ryan. Had to watch it on Directv NY non-HD feed.

REceived my 4228 yesterday in the mail. Can't wait to get that puppy on the roof. How far are you from your towers and what's the degree seperation between them? I'm hoping this antenna does the trick because the GS-2200 I have is flip floppy. Drops signals constantly. IS it in your attic or on the roof? thanks

Dale
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post #186 of 6677 Old 11-12-2004, 09:33 PM
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Peter,
Please tell us what caused the programming split at 11 pm on Friday night (News on 13 and Comedy on 13.1). I have never seen this happen before. Thank you.

Drew
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post #187 of 6677 Old 11-13-2004, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dkyork
REceived my 4228 yesterday in the mail. Can't wait to get that puppy on the roof. How far are you from your towers and what's the degree seperation between them? I'm hoping this antenna does the trick because the GS-2200 I have is flip floppy. Drops signals constantly. IS it in your attic or on the roof? thanks

Dale

dykyork,

Had Domes install my 4228 Monday. It's working great. It's in the attic of a brick two story house located just south and east of the Courthouse in Virginia Beach.

After using "general" compasss directions, we tweaked the antenna using WTVZ-DT as the reference since they are low-power but in the same direction as the other stations. We knew if we got a good solid signal from them, everyone else would come in fine. We were right. WTVZ reads 55~68 on DirecTV HD TiVo's signal strength meter throughout the day and night. The rest come-in in the high 80s-low 90s. I'm 27 miles away.

Even WUND-DT comes in during the afternoons, evenings and mornings. Their antenna is over 60 miles from here and off 80 degrees from the HR local's antennas. A slight tweak to the south would give me WUND all day and all night (I tried it... low 70s for signal strength!) BUT I would lose WTVZ-DT. Not too bad...

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post #188 of 6677 Old 11-13-2004, 06:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bfoster


What part of this exchange are you missing? Question asked, answer provided. Where was the "badgering"?

Brian

You will come to realize that anything that isnt blatant praise of the broadcasters will be construed by a certain individual as badgering of the broadcasters.

Quote:
Originally posted by hjriver
I'm not taking up any more space on this thread on this subject. It's clear we are 180 degrees apart and more discussion would not produce any positive results. I'll be glad to continue on the other thread but as for this subject on this thread, I will not respond.

Just a thought, If you hadnt of jumped on this guys back in the first place this wouldnt have happened. Just something to think about.
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post #189 of 6677 Old 11-13-2004, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by dkyork
REceived my 4228 yesterday in the mail. Can't wait to get that puppy on the roof. How far are you from your towers and what's the degree seperation between them? I'm hoping this antenna does the trick because the GS-2200 I have is flip floppy. Drops signals constantly. IS it in your attic or on the roof? thanks

Dale

I'm in Mathews County about 47 miles from the towers with the antenna mounted on the roof on a tripod mount.. I have a rotor but don't need it as I just split the towers. Don't be mislead by those who think high signal strengths are "good" and the "higher" the better. Mine never go over 75 and can be as low as 45 and I don't have any problems with reception. Lower strengths IMO cuts down on multi-path signals confusing the receiver. I have many trees including big oaks that the antenna is pointing directly at and that seems to not effect reception in any way. Heavy rain although is a different story but OTA is still there even when Directv signals are long lost.

Harold Jackson
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post #190 of 6677 Old 11-13-2004, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by hjriver
... Don't be mislead by those who think high signal strengths are "good" and the "higher" the better. Mine never go over 75 and can be as low as 45 and I don't have any problems with reception. Lower strengths IMO cuts down on multi-path signals confusing the receiver...

I agree. I actually felt a little more comfortable before my 4228 was installed when signal strengths were a bit lower... in the 70s BUT I haven't had any problems so far with the Channel Master...

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post #191 of 6677 Old 11-13-2004, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by VARTV
I agree. I actually felt a little more comfortable before my 4228 was installed when signal strengths were a bit lower... in the 70s BUT I haven't had any problems so far with the Channel Master...

When I bought my HD receiver in 2001 I was using a RS V/U-190 antenna. My signal strengths were much higher than I get with the CM-4228 but I had multi-path problems constantly. I don't know if some of the problems were early broadcast problems though. It's been a learning curve but now other than reading about problems here I apparently have solved most of them and is not an issue with my reception.

Harold Jackson
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post #192 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 06:55 AM
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The Auburn/Georgia game looked much better than many of the other SEC games this season. PBS appears to be improving as well. Good work.
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post #193 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 08:13 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by robertawillisjr
The Auburn/Georgia game looked much better than many of the other SEC games this season. PBS appears to be improving as well. Good work.

I was surprised to see "blockiness" in Harry Potter and the Sorcer's Stone last night on WVEC...

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post #194 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 08:38 AM
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Peter,

Now that the election's over, is ABC News Now going to continue forever?
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post #195 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 11:05 AM
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Fox 43-1 must be having problems today. Tampa vs Atlanta is up in 4:3 SD. So was Fox news sunday.
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post #196 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 12:03 PM
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That sucks. I can't wait till the day when HD broadcasts aren't hit or miss. Looks like there were some national issues earlier but now most folks are reporting the TB/ATL game is coming through in HD...just not here in Norfolk

Quote:


Originally posted by vurbano
Fox 43-1 must be having problems today. Tampa vs Atlanta is up in 4:3 SD. So was Fox news sunday.

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post #197 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 02:16 PM
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4:00 game on fox is also 4:3 SD. And CBS too. wow
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post #198 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 02:57 PM
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Ya know, not all NFL games are in HD yet....
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post #199 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 03:07 PM
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WVBT's website states the game is supposed to be in HD. Whats up today?
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post #200 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 03:17 PM
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Both the Fox games were supposed to be HD. Only the 1pm games on CBS were supposed to be HD. Everyone else seems to be getting the Fox games in HD so I can only assume there is a local technical problem of someone is sleeping at the switch.

Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Ya know, not all NFL games are in HD yet....

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post #201 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 03:34 PM
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FOX has now fixed the problem with the HD on WVBT-DT. For some reason their splicer had jumped into bypass, and they just now got finished putting it back into the correct operating mode.

Very sorry for the problem.
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post #202 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 03:44 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Ya know, not all NFL games are in HD yet....

Yeah I know. CBS is doing about 1/2 of them in HD I think. Fox is doing all of their games in HD. I just thought it was really bad luck. LOL
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post #203 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 04:33 PM
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Thanks Les! Much better now

Quote:


Originally posted by Les Garrenton
FOX has now fixed the problem with the HD on WVBT-DT. For some reason their splicer had jumped into bypass, and they just now got finished putting it back into the correct operating mode.

Very sorry for the problem.

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post #204 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 04:49 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by vurbano
Yeah I know. CBS is doing about 1/2 of them in HD I think. Fox is doing all of their games in HD. I just thought it was really bad luck. LOL

I heard that FOX was doing up to 6 six games a week. CBS was doing the top 3 in their line-up...

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post #205 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 06:05 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by VARTV
I heard that FOX was doing up to 6 six games a week. CBS was doing the top 3 in their line-up...

Yes your right. I recall Foxeng saying 6 out of 7 on weeks when FOX shows 7 games. So I guess it varies for CBS as well. on weeks when they show 6 games its 1/2. on weeks when they show 7 games its 3/7. If ESPN or FOX showed highlight clips that non HD game in widescreen upconverted to 720p along with the HD clips of the rest of the games it would be interesting to play "guess the upconvert" every week, just to remind us of what it used to look like compared to what it looks like now on FOX. (HD vs widescreen upconverted to 720p)
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post #206 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 06:58 PM
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anyone notice that CBS is not passing on HD feed tonight "Cold Case" is n right now in 4:3 even at 1080i. I'm hoping they fix it before the "mini-series" tonight.

peace, chris
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post #207 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 07:36 PM
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Is "Category 6" going to switch to HD at some point on 3-1??

It is being shown in HD elsewhere....
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post #208 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 08:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Todd
Is "Category 6" going to switch to HD at some point on 3-1??

It is being shown in HD elsewhere....

oh...it's switched....back and forth....with cutting 5 to 10min each time off the show
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post #209 of 6677 Old 11-14-2004, 08:24 PM
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Not only is CBS switching in and out of HD, it's now repeating a section of the movie "Day of Destruction". I've seen the wife caught the cheating husband segment and the tornado tommy running from the tornado section twice now. It's like a scratched record (LP) but it jumped backwards about 10 minutes!

Eric
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post #210 of 6677 Old 11-15-2004, 05:05 AM
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I decided not to even bother with it. The only reason to watch would be the special effects in HD.

I'm gathering this had something to do with the Redskins "game" running late...
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