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Norfolk, VA - OTA

543K views 7K replies 253 participants last post by  dtv757 
#1 ·
Welcome to the Hampton Roads (Virginia) Over-The-Air (OTA) thread for the 4th quarter of 2004.

HISTORY

On March 22, 2001, WAVY-DT started operation as the first DTV station in Hampton Roads. Early adopters of the (then) expensive, new technology started a dialog between themselves and the engineering personnel at the local stations. Topics involved start-up times for the various stations, programming availability and reception problems. These sporadic conversations eventually led to the formation of The Official SE Virginia/NE North Carolina Thread in February 2002. That thread proved to be beneficial for the viewers and the engineering staffs as not all consumer equipment functions the same way.

PURPOSE

While the Official SE Virginia/NE North Carolina Thread is still active on the Forum, the technology of OTA DTV in Hampton Roads has stabilized and newer technologies for the delivery and recording of DTV source material has become the primary topic of conversation of that thread. The engineering managers of the local television stations are creating this thread specifically for conversations and information regarding the OTA DTV service in Hampton Roads.


It is important for the people who subscribe to or just read this thread to understand that television broadcasting is a business. These businesses are not run by committee. All of the commercial stations in the Hampton Roads market are owned and operated by larger corporations. Those corporations have publically traded stock and are under constant pressure to show growth in profits. While the DTV service is now stable and growing, total viewership, nationwide, is just now approaching five percent (5%). For this reason the NTSC, or analog, television service is still the primary money maker for the local television stations. In most cases, the engineering managers are the principle contacts for information on DTV technology. We do not control the programming or other non-technology aspects of the stations. We welcome your technical questions and inquiries.

RULES

The rules of engagement for the Hampton Roads OTA thread are similar to those that were posted for the Official SE Virginia/NE North Carolina thread. They are:
  • Topics should focus on over-the-air digital television or carriage of those signals by third party vendors such as cable or direct broadcast satellite services. This narrow focus is due to the limited amount of time the engineering managers can dedicate to participate in this thread,
  • No personal attacks or name calling.
  • Understanding & tolerance are the first orders of the day (as we are a diverse group of people meeting in a common area).
  • Courtesy is the second order of the day (as we are a diverse group of people meeting in a common area).
  • The Hampton Roads OTA thread is not the complaint counter between the viewers and the stations.
PARTICIPANTS

The engineering managers subscribing to this thread are:


Bill Barber

Chief Engineer

WTVZ-TV/DT
bbarber@wtvz.sbgnet.com

Station telephone: 757.622.3333


Les Garrenton

Director of Engineering

WAVY-TV/DT and WVBT-TV/DT
les.garrenton@wavy.com

Station telephone: 757.393-1010


John Heimerl

General Manager

WHRO-TV/DT
jheimerl@whro.org

Station telephone: 757.889.9400


George Randell

Chief Engineer

WGNT-TV/DT
gmrandell@wgnttv.com

Station telephone: 757.393.2501


For pressing matters, station engineers can usually be contacted - during business hours - via the telephone numbers listed above.


For information concerning the orientation of an antenna for Over The Air (OTA) reception, click here for the CEA's antenna mapping utility program.


For "newbies," there are two new web sites:
  • CheckHD is a cross-industry, cross-network collaborative web site sponsored by Decisionmark.
  • DTV.gov is a government sponsored web site.

Both sites are offered to help viewers make the transition from analog to digital broadcasting. Please check these sites before posting equipment or reception problems to this thread.
 
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#2,153 ·
FYI.


Last night I watched the first part of Las Vegas on TNT HD. I wanted to see how good or bad the PQ would be. The introduction has a good number of low light pans. Well it was quite good, much less pixelization than our local OTA channel. Static scenes were a bit better than WAVY.
 
#2,154 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV /forum/post/0


Meaning no disrespect to John Heimerl and WHRO but they are doing too many things at once and the PQ is suffering. I can easily compare the PQ of WHRO and WUND during the evening hours when both stations are running the PBS-HD feed. WUND's PQ is superior, hands down. WUND, as I have written here several times, runs 2 SD's and 1 HD at night while WHRO is doing 4 SD's and 1 HD channel. The 4 SD's WHRO run are really bit starved...

Robert,


What is their 4th SD channel. I am only aware of 15-1 (HD), 15-2 thru 4 (SD).
 
#2,155 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhahne /forum/post/0


Robert,


What is their 4th SD channel. I am only aware of 15-1 (HD), 15-2 thru 4 (SD).

Oops! You're right... I find it hard to believe that one additional SD channel (compared to WUND) is causing all of this "mess."
 
#2,156 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd /forum/post/0


Why do you refuse to buy LIL??

Because...


...why pay another $5.99/mo. for analog, commercial stations that I've been getting decent quality from, free, for over 10 years?


WSKY is the ONLY one I can't get a decent picture from. They have some nice alternatives, but I'm not paying $5.99/mo. for it, alone.
 
#2,157 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncchester /forum/post/0


Because...


...why pay another $5.99/mo. for analog, commercial stations that I've been getting decent quality from, free, for over 10 years?

YES! I knew it... hahaha...
 
#2,158 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncchester /forum/post/0


Because...


...why pay another $5.99/mo. for analog, commercial stations that I've been getting decent quality from, free, for over 10 years?


WSKY is the ONLY one I can't get a decent picture from. They have some nice alternatives, but I'm not paying $5.99/mo. for it, alone.

I thought it was only like $3 a month? Guess I better check my bill. However, I get them for 3 reasons:


1) OTA reception is not stable enough.

2) For most SD network shows, I record them in SD to save space on my TiVos.

3) My second TiVo is SD only and I can't get the locals without LIL.
 
#2,159 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV /forum/post/0


Meaning no disrespect to John Heimerl and WHRO but they are doing too many things at once and the PQ is suffering. I can easily compare the PQ of WHRO and WUND during the evening hours when both stations are running the PBS-HD feed. WUND's PQ is superior, hands down. WUND, as I have written here several times, runs 2 SD's and 1 HD at night while WHRO is doing 4 SD's and 1 HD channel. The 4 SD's WHRO run are really bit starved...

Sorry guys... but I don't see the problem... at least not at home (North End, Oceanfront).


I've seen what you're talking about at our store (CM-4228) and at customers' homes (mostly CM-4228s or "God-knows-what"
antennae).


... but when I get home... it's ALWAYS dead-solid-perfect!
...on both of my HD receivers. (an ANCIENT Dish 6000 and an old Sony SAT-200, with a dead sat section, used for OTA only)


Whatever is helping it, up here... I'll take it!!!



BTW... thanks, Robert, for the WSKY coverage map, but I also am not buying a rotor-motor to get it either. I'll just wait and see what happens when they go digital, from a different angle. (Yes, I'll admit it... I'm CHEAP!)


Does anyone here (VARTV?) know who owns/operates WSKY-4??? Corporate? Locals? Tied to any other local? Who the hell are they?
 
#2,160 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd /forum/post/0


I thought it was only like $3 a month? Guess I better check my bill. However, I get them for 3 reasons:


1) OTA reception is not stable enough.

2) For most SD network shows, I record them in SD to save space on my TiVos.

3) My second TiVo is SD only and I can't get the locals without LIL.

Nope... It's $5.99 with DishNet or DirecTV


However, I DON'T get them for 3... or maybe 4
reasons:


1) MY OTA analog has been GREAT for 10+ years (except SKY-4) AND digital has been GREAT for 4+ years! (See above...)

2) For most SD network shows... WHO F***ING CARES!!!

3) I haven't (YET) become FIRST DVR dependent. (DishNet still wants $700 for their HD-DVR... the bastards!) ...and yes, I know how they change your life... ya-da-ya-da-ya-da... and I'm both envious and pissed off about it!


BECAUSE...


4) Oh yeah... did I mention... I'M CHEAP!!!
 
#2,161 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncchester /forum/post/0


BTW... thanks, Robert, for the WSKY coverage map, but I also am not buying a rotor-motor to get it either. I'll just wait and see what happens when they go digital, from a different angle. (Yes, I'll admit it... I'm CHEAP!)


Does anyone here (VARTV?) know who owns/operates WSKY-4??? Corporate? Locals? Tied to any other local? Who the hell are they?


Danbeth Communications Inc., locals I believe.


Brian
 
#2,162 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncchester /forum/post/0


Sorry guys... but I don't see the problem... at least not at home (North End, Oceanfront).

So, you're telling us that you don't see the severe (at times) pixelization on any of WHRO's channels??? Wow... On what type of TV are you viewing WHRO???

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncchester /forum/post/0


Does anyone here (VARTV?) know who owns/operates WSKY-4??? Corporate? Locals? Tied to any other local? Who the hell are they?

Owned by SKY Television, LLC with a Kitty Hawk address. Glenn Holterhaus is the President/Managing Partner. This FCC document might shed some light on who is involved with SKY Television . It's interesting reading from when the ownership changed from DanBeth Communications to SKY Television...
 
#2,163 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfoster /forum/post/0


Danbeth Communications Inc., locals I believe. Brian

That was several years ago... Now SKY Television, LLC...
 
#2,164 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV /forum/post/0


That was several years ago... Now SKY Television, LLC...

Danbeth Communications Inc. Holds ALL Class A membership, 51% of the votes, 30% of the equity and 22.9% of all assets of Sky Television, LLC. Glen V. Holterhaus holds 100% of the votes and equity in Danbeth.


Semantics.


And Danbeth is still the holder of the license, it was only assigned to Sky Television, not transferred.
 
#2,165 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV /forum/post/0


So, you're telling us that you don't see the severe (at times) pixelization on any of WHRO's channels??? Wow... On what type of TV are you viewing WHRO???

I only watch 15.1... and I watch it on either my Mits 55" 16x9 CRT RPTV, in the Living Room or the 27" Toshiba direct-view CRT, in the kitchen. But, I only watch it occasionally, and usually in the evening... but up here, on my lame-assed setup, it's DEAD-SOLID-PERFECT... I don't know why... but it kinda blows the whole "Bandwidth Theory" all to hell... doesn't it???

Quote:
Originally Posted by VARTV /forum/post/0


Owned by SKY Television, LLC with a Kitty Hawk address. Glenn Holterhaus is the President/Managing Partner. This FCC document might shed some light on who is involved with SKY Television . It's interesting reading from when the ownership changed from DanBeth Communications to SKY Television...

I always figured that it was originally some kind of "sweetheart deal" with Cox, that gained enough viewers to justify being picked up by the Satellites' LIL.


I dont think IT WAS EVER INTENDED TO BE RECEIVED OTA, in Hampton Roads!!!


But between Cox & Sat, I don't think they give 2 hoots about OTA, in Hampton Roads. Especially when almost all of their principles live in Wilson, NC! (See... I really DID read it!
)
 
#2,166 ·
The PQ of TNTHD has definately gotten better. When it first started on Cox I was having serious picture breakups.
 
#2,167 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncchester /forum/post/0


IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE RECEIVED OTA, in Hampton Roads!!!

Let's see......


WSKY Channel 4 Low Band VHF 100 kwerp 1020 feet above sea level. Northern Va Beach and Southern Pasquotank County in 47 dBu service contour.



WTKR Channel 3 Low Band VHF 100 kwerp 988 Feet above sea level. Northern Va Beach and Southern Pasquotank County in 47 dBu service contour.


Now you know how we feel
 
#2,168 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by johncchester /forum/post/0


... Does anyone here (VARTV?) know who owns/operates WSKY-4??? Corporate? Locals? Tied to any other local? Who the hell are they?

Here is an FCC link that you can search for any TV station in the country and find out who owns them, current technical details, and even all the antenna patterns. You have to dig deep in all the links for a station to find all this though. For locals search for all the towns in HR. You may have to search for Virginia to find all the towns that the stations are licensed to.

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/tvq.html


For example, I searched for North Carolina, then WSKY, and I could get Antenna patterns and coverage maps for both the current analog Ch 4 (near Manteo) AND the new Digital Ch 4 (on the NC/VA line), which is scheduled to only be 10KW of power by the way. You can find owner by digging around the other links.
 
#2,170 ·
I am having some problems with the hd signal on fox. it is bouncing around from 95-85 constantly then will drop to 0 and I lose the picture. This happened so often during the ball game the other night I had to switch back to SD... it is happening again tonight and I feel like throwing somethiong at the tv. All of my other hd stations are at a very solid 95-100 with no dropouts. Is the problem at fox 43?
 
#2,171 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by shugazer9 /forum/post/0


The PQ of TNTHD has definately gotten better. When it first started on Cox I was having serious picture breakups.

I watched about five minutes of the baseball game last night and had that OMG experience. That was the best HD I've seen since WHRO's glory days. Goes to show that it can be done.
 
#2,172 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by raycer /forum/post/0


I have both OTA and Cox HD, and when WHRO starts breaking up, during fast motion (mainly Soundstage for me) it happens on both OTA and cable. Whatever the cause, it's not a reception issue for me.

Ditto. It is especially bad on some SD programming. HD programming can be quite good at times.


The entire chain has to be examined. How well was the product produced, converted to HD, prcessed by the network, shipped down the pipeliine, received by the locals, sent to us and finally what type of equipment do we have.
 
#2,174 ·
I wanted to give some input to the WHRO topic of discussion. I "Tivoed" Austin City Limits at 9pm Saturday night on 15-1. I just played it back, and watched the Alison Krauss and Union Station part, and all I want to say is, that I saw NO PIXELATION or BREAKUPS. It was beatiful, perfect HD. There were flashing lights and slow camera fades (transitions) and it ALL looked good. The close ups of Alison looked so clean, that I could see her near microscopic facial hair.


The audio, although only 2 channel, sounded fantastic with tremendous, deep bass coming from my M & K sub.


A great Tivo save.


Did they fix it, or is it just some of us who see problems with WHRO 15-1?
 
#2,175 ·
I was one of the people who posted having problems with WHRO. I tuned into Soundstage and Austin City Limits last night just for a few seconds to check the picture quality and it was pretty good. I don't know how the problem was resolved. It reminds me of a time years ago, though, when I would call the telephone company to complain about the line quality. They would say they had checked the line and it was functioning properly. A moment later my line problems disappeared. Coincidence?


Anyway, they apparently are taking steps to improve the quality of their broadcasts and that's what counts. Thanks and kudos to you, WHRO.
 
#2,176 ·
Both games looking good on 3-1 and 43-1. Thanks to WTKR-DT for 2 weeks in a row of flawless 1pm NFL. WVBT-DT is always flawless for me, so thanks to Les for that as well.

I do however notice a large audio level difference between the 2 channels. I'm flipping back and forth between 3-1 and 43-1. I have the Home Theater system on and receiving both in DD 5.1.

Channel 3-1 is noticably louder than 43-1. Anyone else notice this?


I'm not complaining, just making comparisons
 
#2,177 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by obxdiver /forum/post/0


Channel 3-1 is noticably louder than 43-1. Anyone else notice this?

3 has always been louder than the other locals. They closely match the volume level on DirecTV...
 
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