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post #11101 of 11850 Old 04-11-2012, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dsscpu View Post

I know its slightly OT, but question about the coverage on CNBC. Are they just picking up a regional USA or national Canadian feed, or is NBC Sports producing games/unique content that is airing on CNBC?

It's an NBC Sports production.
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post #11102 of 11850 Old 04-12-2012, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremy W View Post

It immediately gives them room for 2-3 HD channels, which is what the more profitable customers want to see. Analog cable is a dead-end technology, it's unreasonable to expect it to be supported for much longer.

Is this to say they can simultaneously transmit digital streams over the test pattern in the same RF spectrum without showing any noise over the test pattern on an analog set? (seems doubtful).
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post #11103 of 11850 Old 04-12-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by itsthemultipath! View Post

Is this to say they can simultaneously transmit digital streams over the test pattern in the same RF spectrum without showing any noise over the test pattern on an analog set? (seems doubtful).

No, they'll shut off the test pattern when they're ready to use the slot for digital. It's just there now to make customers aware it's gone. A hard switch would have analog subscribers seeing just static, as if the channel were simply "off-the-air." And that would prompt a ton of calls to the switchboard. Calls they'd rather not answer. I guess they're thinking this will ease customers into the channel's relocation.

Seems to me, you'd get the same calls either way, but that's just me.

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post #11104 of 11850 Old 04-12-2012, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Reasons given for permitting this are theft of service, cost savings & environmental (less truck rolls), and that only a small percentage of cable subs don't have cable boxes.

I believe those were the same reasons given for WOW to encrypt channels when they switched to (mostly) digital. (They still have about 20 analog channels.)

There were enough complaints from customers that they changed their mind and left the basic digital channels unencrypted to allow access with QAM tuners (including the OTA HD channels).

They even put out a channel lineup for TVs with built-in digital tuners - http://content.wowway.com/documents/...A/michigan.pdf

Of course, most people don't have a choice when it comes to cable TV, but perhaps if enough of those that live in a WOW area vote with their wallet, the other cable companies may "see the light". I know, fat chance.

And no, I don't work for WOW!
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post #11105 of 11850 Old 04-12-2012, 02:38 PM
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That's great that WOW not only provides QAM programming, but documents it as well. My experience is that cable companies won't even admit they have QAM programming when someone calls. I think they are afraid of support costs from people that have no idea how to scan for new channels or otherwise set up their TV.
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post #11106 of 11850 Old 04-13-2012, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by realgoose View Post

I think they are afraid of support costs from people that have no idea how to scan for new channels or otherwise set up their TV.

No, it's just so few subs use QAM, that most CSR's don't have experience with it. QAM is typically mentioned in training, but that's about it.

I know at the minimum, if you get the right person at Comcast they will help figure out clear QAM issues.

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post #11107 of 11850 Old 04-14-2012, 03:23 PM
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Great news!

WDIV-DT is passing full 5.1 from NBC for today's Washington @ Boston NHL Playoff game.

Thanks to all those responsible for helping resolve this issue.

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post #11108 of 11850 Old 04-15-2012, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken H View Post

Great news!

WDIV-DT is passing full 5.1 from NBC for today's Washington @ Boston NHL Playoff game.

Thanks to all those responsible for helping resolve this issue.

More great news from WDIV. Predators @ Wings is 5.1 from The JLA.

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post #11109 of 11850 Old 04-15-2012, 09:32 AM
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Yep, although I find myself (reluctantly) watching the CBET feed instead because its 5-6 seconds ahead of the WDIV feed.
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post #11110 of 11850 Old 04-15-2012, 10:17 AM
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You're jinxing it, Ken, you know that, right?

I just switched to CBET mostly because the NBC announce team seems to favor the Preds. This keeps up, I'm switching on the radio.

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post #11111 of 11850 Old 04-15-2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

I just switched to CBET mostly because the NBC announce team seems to favor the Preds.

Which is funny (not ha ha), because the play by play man calling the game for NBC, Dave Strader, was the Red Wings play by play man for about 10 years, roughly from '85 to '95. Maybe he was overcompensating.

No matter as the boys in Red lost anyway. That end of second period non-goal was a killer.

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post #11112 of 11850 Old 04-15-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dsscpu View Post

I know its slightly OT, but question about the coverage on CNBC. Are they just picking up a regional USA or national Canadian feed, or is NBC Sports producing games/unique content that is airing on CNBC?

You can always tell by the scorebox, who is the originating broadcaster. EDIT: For example tonight, the LA @ Vancouver game on NBC Sports Network is from the CBC.

Having said that, at NHL games (and other pro sports) covered by more than one broadcaster, they often share key elements of the production and produce others unique for themselves.

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post #11113 of 11850 Old 04-15-2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

I just switched to CBET mostly because the NBC announce team seems to favor the Preds. This keeps up, I'm switching on the radio.

Now another dilemma.

The Tigers @ White Sox game is on both FSN Detroit HD & WGN America HD. The FSN broadcast is a poor DD2.0 audio feed, while I've always really liked how WGN mixes their DD5.1.

It's a tough life.

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post #11114 of 11850 Old 04-15-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

No, they'll shut off the test pattern when they're ready to use the slot for digital. It's just there now to make customers aware it's gone. A hard switch would have analog subscribers seeing just static, as if the channel were simply "off-the-air." And that would prompt a ton of calls to the switchboard. Calls they'd rather not answer. I guess they're thinking this will ease customers into the channel's relocation.

Seems to me, you'd get the same calls either way, but that's just me.

A ton of calls, for CBC? in Detroit Proper? Maybe half a kilo (LOL)
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post #11115 of 11850 Old 04-17-2012, 07:48 PM
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Does anyone have any information about when WHNE plans to relocate their transmitter to Oak Park?
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post #11116 of 11850 Old 04-17-2012, 08:29 PM
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Does anyone have any information about when WHNE plans to relocate their transmitter to Oak Park?

Sorry, no.

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post #11117 of 11850 Old 04-17-2012, 10:34 PM
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OTA in S.E. Michigan/S.W. Ontario is actually really interesting right now. All of the following are on the go and when it happens, no one knows:

WHNE moving from Flint on RF 26 to Oak Park on RF 20;
WUDT moving from RF 8 to RF 23;
W38DH from Toledo going live digital on RF 23 and if that will cause problems with WUDT;
WPXD moving from Chelsea on RF 31 to Southfield on RF 50 (and seriously, what is taking this so long from happening, they were testing it months ago and supposed to be live before the end of 2011, sigh);
W48AV is to be sold once WPXD's new signal goes live;
W33BY will need to make a transition to digital or be forced off air;
CBEFT on RF 35 will be going off-air at the end of July, unless it somehow gets saved again by the CBC (and considering the strong signal this station has, I am slightly surprised that it will actually go dark). CBLFT-10 on RF 48 and CBLN-3 on RF 55 in Chatham and CBLN-2 on RF 34 and CBLFT-17 on RF 17 in Sarnia face the same fate, potentially freeing up some frequency room;
CKCO-3 on RF 42 in Sarnia is rumored to transition at some point this summer to digital; and
CFTV will be going on-air digital in Leamington on RF 34 (with RF 34 in Sarnia gone and no co-channel issue on RF 35, I wonder if they see a chance to boost power for more of the region).

The good news is once this all happens in the next 36 months or so, everything should be firmed up in the region and changes should settle down. BTW, anything I missed?
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post #11118 of 11850 Old 04-18-2012, 11:55 AM
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Never noticed it before, but WCMZ-DT 28 is up in Clear QAM on Brighthouse. 28-1 (PBS HD) and 28-3 (Create) are all that show up, at the moment. Wasn't there over the weekend.

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post #11119 of 11850 Old 04-18-2012, 11:56 AM
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Is this where I can ask antenna questions?

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post #11120 of 11850 Old 04-18-2012, 12:16 PM
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Absolutely. If we can't answer you, you can always post in HDTV Technical. Just use "Detroit" in your thread title to catch the eye of geeks familiar with our area.

But, go ahead. Shoot. And if you can, post your tvfool.com results. Though if you can give us your suburb or intersection, it'll help narrow things down.

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post #11121 of 11850 Old 04-18-2012, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

Absolutely. If we can't answer you, you can always post in HDTV Technical. Just use "Detroit" in your thread title to catch the eye of geeks familiar with our area.

But, go ahead. Shoot. And if you can, post your tvfool.com results. Though if you can give us your suburb or intersection, it'll help narrow things down.

Thanks DrDon. I don't have access to a computer right now but I live in Novi MI not far from the intersection of grand river and novi rd. the question I have is pertaining to indoor antennas-- I realize that indoor antennas are a bit of a crap shoot but I never expected I would have the issues I'm having!
Back in 2007/2008 I was able to pick up just about every station in the metro-Detroit area with a pair of fancy rabbit ears living on the bottom floor of a Plymouth apt complex. I now live on the second story of an apt with large windows facing east and I can barely get consistent reception. I've tried an antennas direct passive indoor (Micron R, I believe) that worked OK... I recently upgraded to the winegard SS3000 "scatter plane" antenna and it seems to pull in a more solid signal for most stations but 50 is still an issue (50 seems hardest to get for some reason) and 2 is now an issue as well. Part of me also feels like the only reason the winegard is more consistent is it's amplifier which the micron lacked.

Was hoping someone could give me some advice about antenna placement or maybe recommend a stronger antennas than the winegard that won't completely dominate my living room (GAF on the winegard is already borderline). I know an outdoor antenna would be preferable-- especially with my eastward facing balcony-- but I just don't have a way to get a cord out there without drilling and that's not really and option.

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post #11122 of 11850 Old 04-18-2012, 04:59 PM
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I'm 2 miles from you. I don't know much about the antenna you mention. Is it this? (how are you posting w/o computer access.. phone?) You're under 15 miles from the biggies. All are UHF except WJBK which is VHF (Ch7, oddly enough). I can grab just about everyone with a $15 pair of RCA rabbit ears from Meijer if I move 'em around enough, but it's generally iffy. I've got a lot of houses and a small hill between the transmitters and me. I went overboard with outdoor just to lock it all in solid. Added a rotor to get Toledo, Windsor and Lansing. Do outdoor if there's any way. Otherwise, start cheap and keep receipts.

Or borrow one of mine to test.

For starters, I'd get a long piece of RG6 and move that Winegard all over the room. Apartments are multipath hell.

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post #11123 of 11850 Old 04-18-2012, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDon View Post

I'm 2 miles from you. I don't know much about the antenna you mention. Is it this? (how are you posting w/o computer access.. phone?) You're under 15 miles from the biggies. All are UHF except WJBK which is VHF (Ch7, oddly enough). I can grab just about everyone with a $15 pair of RCA rabbit ears from Meijer if I move 'em around enough, but it's generally iffy. I've got a lot of houses and a small hill between the transmitters and me. I went overboard with outdoor just to lock it all in solid. Added a rotor to get Toledo, Windsor and Lansing. Do outdoor if there's any way. Otherwise, start cheap and keep receipts.

Or borrow one of mine to test.

For starters, I'd get a long piece of RG6 and move that Winegard all over the room. Apartments are multipath hell.

On my iPhone-- hard to access site that don't have mobile versions. That antenna you posted is the one I tried. This is the one I'm using now: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B001DFZ5II

Here's a picture:


Attachment 243919
LL

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post #11124 of 11850 Old 04-19-2012, 06:10 AM
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Where all in the room have you tried it? And have you tried angular orientations? Funny thing about digital.. you gotta find that sweet spot where they all come in without multipath interference.

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post #11125 of 11850 Old 04-19-2012, 09:27 AM
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Why does Fox Sports Detroit+ channel show it's broadcasting in Dolby Digital 3/2 and the regular Fox Sports Detroit channel shows 2.0? And the kicker is I only get sound out of my Left and right speakers and nothing out of my center or rear speakers on the Plus channel.

The reason I found this is I had to send my amp out for repair and only connected my center speaker to my receiver for the time being so I have dialog and when I was watching the Red Wings game on 663 I went to 664-1 to watch the Tigers and had no sound and couldn't figure out why. So I ended up connecting my left and right front speakers and had sound but only out of the left and right speaker. My receiver showed Dolby Digital 3/2 and tested a movie channel and my local channels and it works normal on them when displaying DD 3/2.
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post #11126 of 11850 Old 04-19-2012, 10:50 AM
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Why does Fox Sports Detroit+ channel show it's broadcasting in Dolby Digital 3/2 and the regular Fox Sports Detroit channel shows 2.0? And the kicker is I only get sound out of my Left and right speakers and nothing out of my center or rear speakers on the Plus channel.

This is because Fox Sports Network Detroit HD channel has their Dolby Digital audio encoder settings wrong.

What they are doing is setting the DD audio encoder for a full 5.1 channel output, but only have the main two left and right channels of audio going into it.

The result is that your DD audio decoder thinks it's getting 5.1 channels. When that happens, the result, as you have found, is that you only get audio on the main left & right channels.

The worst part of the problem is that you can't override what the DD decoder thinks it's getting, and thus you can't use a matrix surround mode like Dolby Pro Logic for analog surround sound, from the incorrectly encoded DD input.

My often given advice is to also have analog stereo left and right channel audio cables connected from the source box, in this case your DirecTV HD receiver, to your DD audio processor. That way when your watching these channels you can switch to the analog audio inputs and at least get matrix analog surround sound.

To the best of my knowledge, the reason for this mistake is due to how the FSN national broadcast center in Houston, TX processes audio. I strongly believe they have some kind of technical limitation that prevents them from using the correct settings.

If you check the Big Ten HD channel, it should be the same, because Fox is responsible for the technical side of that channel, too.

On Comcast systems, both the main FSN Detroit HD channel and the FSN Detroit HD Plus channel, and Big Ten Network HD channel, all have the same incorrect settings.

I'm not sure why DirecTV is different in how the main FSN Detroit channel and the Plus channel are for DD audio, but that may be a DirecTV specific problem.

I've looked into this before, but never got very far with getting an answer. I will try again.

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post #11127 of 11850 Old 04-19-2012, 11:03 AM
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Thanks for the response Ken. Now I know I'm not going nuts..
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post #11128 of 11850 Old 04-19-2012, 12:21 PM
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Thanks for the response Ken. Now I know I'm not going nuts..

No, but it drives me nuts that I have to switch back and forth between audio inputs for those two channels.....

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post #11129 of 11850 Old 04-19-2012, 07:45 PM
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The thing I don't like most about Comcast is the "TA". This box converts the comcast digital signals to CH3. So for basic cable, you can get all the encrypted channels. The problem is, all the HD channels on the cable don't pass through this box. If you want HD, you need a switcher to put the direct cable into your TV. But then you don't get the encrypted channels.

So in setting 1, you get encrypted channels, in setting 2, you get the local HD channels.

It would have been great if they had RCA or some video out from the TA. Frustrating.

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post #11130 of 11850 Old 04-19-2012, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dnoyeB View Post

The thing I don't like most about Comcast is the "TA". This box converts the comcast digital signals to CH3. So for basic cable, you can get all the encrypted channels. The problem is, all the HD channels on the cable don't pass through this box. If you want HD, you need a switcher to put the direct cable into your TV. But then you don't get the encrypted channels.

So in setting 1, you get encrypted channels, in setting 2, you get the local HD channels.

It would have been great if they had RCA or some video out from the TA. Frustrating.

You must mean 'DTA'?

They were made to a price point.

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