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post #601 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 07:59 AM
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Does anyone know how to check signal strength on HD OTA signals? I need to find the sweet spot for antenna positioning in order to solve pixelation on 51 1 and 2, without losing 5.1 and 29.1. I am tuning through a Samsung D* box. I have some kind of transponder matrix test on the menu but that seems to be checking something related to the D* signal. I don't seem to find any kind of testing option for OTA.
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post #602 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by nj829 View Post

Due to them carrying the SEC Lincoln Financial (formerly Jefferson Pilot) game of the week, every 2:30 ABC game will be tape delayed. In years past, they play the entire pregame show, and then the game start, if they would cut off the pregame show and direct cut to the game, the need for tape delay wouldn't be needed. Frankly, when every other channel that has a game on is showing scores, it's pointless to do the tape delay as it ruins the broadcast to see the highlight on another channel, and then 20 minutes later get to see the play happen. Is there someone in programming we can complain too about not just cutting directly to the game vs. the delay? I would rather see the abc game in it's entirety, plus the games that get pre-empted vs. the SEC game, but I am fine with the business decision to carry it because of the potential for the Hogs to be on. I just wish the tape delay wasn't done.

You are correct on most counts. The bad guy is ABC. Basically they don't want us airing any sports except theirs. They specify that we absolutely will not join their game in progress. The contract specifies that we will carry their game in it's entirety or not at all. We decided delay was best a few years ago. Remember the hogs game where we had to cut off the last five minutes to join ABC and they got a touchdown and completely turned the outcome around? ABC isn't happy that we delay the game (sometimes as little as 5 minutes which is why we can't use the HD tape machine for delay) but it fits the letter of the contract since they want to be such as&*()# about it.

4029engineering consists of several engineers who are HDTV viewers just like you. Anything said in this forum is their own opinion and not necessairly official KHBS/KHOG policy.
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post #603 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

Does anyone know how to check signal strength on HD OTA signals? I need to find the sweet spot for antenna positioning in order to solve pixelation on 51 1 and 2, without losing 5.1 and 29.1. I am tuning through a Samsung D* box. I have some kind of transponder matrix test on the menu but that seems to be checking something related to the D* signal. I don't seem to find any kind of testing option for OTA.

Tune to the OTA channel. Press MENU , SETUP, Antenna & Cable, Digital Off-Air Signal Meter.
I haven't found a way to change the channel while in signal meter mode making it necessary to go through the whole thing to check each channel.

4029engineering consists of several engineers who are HDTV viewers just like you. Anything said in this forum is their own opinion and not necessairly official KHBS/KHOG policy.
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post #604 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by jim9251 View Post

I wonder if Cox will drop KHOG? Guess I will resort to an indoor antenna for OTA HD. Since I can see the transmission towers from my front door, I should get good reception.

If you can see the tower from your door and your HDTV is a newer model with a decent OTA tuner, a simple loop antenna or coathanger on the back of the HDTV should suffice! When I lived in LR about 7 mi from some of the towers, I could get the only full power station (at that time) with nothing connected to the ANT-IN jack. Not even a piece of coax!

If I lived close to the transmitters, I would get a good outdoor antenna and put it in the attic out of sight. If you can get it, OTA digital nearly always looks better than anything on cable or satellite. And it's a great free backup if cable out.
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post #605 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 4029engineering View Post

Tune to the OTA channel. Press MENU , SETUP, Antenna & Cable, Digital Off-Air Signal Meter.
I haven't found a way to change the channel while in signal meter mode making it necessary to go through the whole thing to check each channel.

4029,
Newer D* HD receivers allow you to flip through the channels while in the antenna signal strength menu. One model, the H20-600 allows you to see the actual video of channels you're testing as you flip through them in the Antenna Menu. The video is shown in a small upper-right inset on the signal strength screen.

Theoliver,
What model D* receiver do you have?
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post #606 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 10:36 AM
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Samsung SIR TS-360
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post #607 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 10:43 AM
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It looks like I'm getting on the roof to adjust the antenna, despite the rain.

5.1 - 0-45%, but inexplicably no pixelation or cut out
29.1 - 0-20%, same as 5.1
51.1 - 10-69%, but fluctuating wildly with all kinds of pixelation and cut out

No cut out or pixelation with 0 signal? Seems weird to me.
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post #608 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 11:08 AM
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(arxaw) There is no D* box that has a functioning QAM cable tuner. The Samsung 451 is an OTA/Cable tuner only and does not have a D* tuner.

I've been thinking about this for the past few days, wondering what got me thinking the 451 would tune D*. I now see that "Satellite Receiver" is not the same as "DirecTV Satellite Receiver."
(http://www.bizrate.com/satelliterece...13745--on.html)

Dumb me, I thought "satellite" meant "satellite," apparently it means "cable."

I guess it's always something.
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post #609 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

I've been thinking about this for the past few days, wondering what got me thinking the 451 would tune D*. I now see that "Satellite Receiver" is not the same as "DirecTV Satellite Receiver."
(http://www.bizrate.com/satelliterece...13745--on.html)

Dumb me, I thought "satellite" meant "satellite," apparently it means "cable."

Theoliver,
The only satellite receiver on that link you posted is the SIR-TS360. It is a DirecTV/OTA receiver. BizRate incorrectly shows the 351 & 451 as Satellite receivers. They are OTA or OTA/QAM-cable tuners only.

BTW, speaking from past experience, the SIR-TS360 can be pretty picky about correct antenna aiming. Newer tuners are a *lot* more forgiving of poorly aimed antennas.
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post #610 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 12:06 PM
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Theoliver,
The only satellite receiver on that link you posted is the SIR-TS360. It is a DirecTV/OTA receiver. BizRate incorrectly shows the 351 & 451 as Satellite receivers. They are OTA or OTA/QAM-cable tuners only.

BTW, speaking from past experience, the SIR-TS360 can be pretty picky about correct antenna aiming. Newer tuners are a *lot* more forgiving of poorly aimed antennas.

Yea, I guess "satellite" can also mean OTA in addition to cable. Thanks, Bizrate.

Maybe the pickiness of my D* box explains my inability to pick up KNWA. Since you've had trouble (and trouble, and trouble) with your H20(s), is there another one you would recommend? Despite the problems, is the H20 better than the Samsung 160 (at least when it is working)? Last time I upgraded with D*, they wouldn't even talk about specific equipment. I just got whatever the installer brought. So - I'm also considering buying one since I need another one anyway for the BR.
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post #611 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

... Since you've had trouble (and trouble, and trouble) with your H20(s), is there another one you would recommend? Despite the problems, is the H20 better than the Samsung 160 (at least when it is working)?

Yes, I have had a *lot* of problems with the H20 receivers. That being said, D* has stood behind them and cheerfully replaced everyone that has failed by shipping a replacement and a prepaid shipping label for returning the defective one. They have also given me months and months and months of freebie programming and bill credits because of the problems. So I will continue to stay with them for now.

Is the H20 better than the Samsung (160 & 360) models? A definite yes in the OTA department, at least for the H20-600. For the H20-100, I'd say it's a tossup. For the most part, the H20 menu GUI sucks, but I've gotten used to its quirks. The H20s don't have analog OTA tuners, but since i never watch analog tv any more that's not an issue for me.

The H20-100 is made by RCA and its tuner has been disappointing at least for me. However the current H20-600 I'm using is made by LG and has the best OTA tuner I've used so far. I have my antenna aimed toward Winslow/Mountainburg and get the following channels dropout free, without moving the antenna:
KAFT-DT 13-n PBS-HD
KHOG-DT 29-n ABC-HD
KNWA-DT 51-n NBC-HD & FOX-SD
KSBN-DT 39-n religious
KYTV-DT 3-n NBC-HD & UPN-SD Springfield (w/ antenna aimed at Winslow/Mtnburg)
KOZK-DT 21-n PBS-HD Springfield (w/ antenna aimed at Winslow/Mtnburg)

I cannot get KFSM-DT because there's a LPTV station K18EG in Eureka Springs on the same RF channel. K18EG will move to ch 22 soon and then I will be able to get KFSM-DT. I also can't get KFTA-DT because they chose channel 27 for digital, which is the same channel KSFX 27 analog is on in springfield. When analog shuts down, KFTA-DT should come in fine because i can get analog KFTA 24 very clearly on an old analog TV.

I do not get the other Springfield digital channels because they are still low power. Same for Joplin, MO/Pittsburgh, KS.
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post #612 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 04:55 PM
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Not sure why I can't get KFTA-DT. It is virtually in a straight line with KFSM-DT from me. The box pauses for a good while on 27 while scanning but it doesn't keep anything.
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post #613 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 04:56 PM
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I hope KHBS/KHOG get this taken care of. I don't want to go back to watching Lost in SD again. Why won't they display the guide data for the DT channels if they have until 9/30 to give permission?
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post #614 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

Not sure why I can't get KFTA-DT. It is virtually in a straight line with KFSM-DT from me. The box pauses for a good while on 27 while scanning but it doesn't keep anything.

theoliver,
Can you get anything on channel 27 analog besides snow?
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post #615 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

theoliver,
Can you get anything on channel 27 analog besides snow?

Just says "channel not available." Black screen, no snow.
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post #616 of 3402 Old 09-04-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

Just says "channel not available." Black screen, no snow.

Is this on your TS 360?
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post #617 of 3402 Old 09-05-2006, 07:22 AM
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40/29-

Thanks for the explanation. I am so used to seeing shows joined in progress, or hearing that, I just figured you could do the same with the football games. Hopefully with the new speed up the games idea the NCAA has, the 11:30 game will end earlier and there won't be so much lag time.
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post #618 of 3402 Old 09-05-2006, 12:06 PM
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theoliver,
Take an old analog TV and connect it to your antenna.
Scan for channels (if required) and see if there's any picture at all on channel 27.
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post #619 of 3402 Old 09-05-2006, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

theoliver,
Take an old analog TV and connect it to your antenna.
Scan for channels (if required) and see if there's any picture at all on channel 27.

On the 360 I get nothing but black screen. I hooked up an old analog set and got nothing but snow, so I guess there's no interference with another signal on 27, if that's what you were thinking. Don't understand it.
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post #620 of 3402 Old 09-05-2006, 04:22 PM
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Cox Cable people,

Are we getting Fox in HD on channel 708?

edit: Never mind. We are. Just watched House and now I'm recording whatever comes after it.
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post #621 of 3402 Old 09-05-2006, 04:36 PM
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Theoliver,

Be patient, these new stations may not have their PSIP data fully functional. Some D* receivers will not receive an OTA station is PSIP data is incorrect.

Do you have that box currently connected to Directv?
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post #622 of 3402 Old 09-05-2006, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Theoliver,

Be patient, these new stations may not have their PSIP data fully functional. Some D* receivers will not receive an OTA station is PSIP data is incorrect.

Do you have that box currently connected to Directv?

Yes, since my Panny plasma doesn't have a tuner the 360 is how I'm able to watch tv.
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post #623 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 09:06 AM
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Hey all. First post on here so take it easy.. I tried reading some (not most) of this thread so I'm not coming off asking the exact same questions again... but I'm sure this has been touched on before -- so I apologize in advance!

I live in Springdale and am looking at the cost benefits of receiving OTA HDTV from the available providers vs. dumping DISH Networks and going with a Cox HD package.

Currently have a dual receiver, DISH Player-DVR 625, that allows me to record 2 programs and watch 2 previously recorded ones at the same time. This has been a huge plus and I don't know if I'm ready to part with it.

I believe Cox's DVR has the ability to record a program while you watch another and perhaps a 2nd DVR (probably just standard and not an HD capable one for I believe an extra $5/mth) would ease the pain of transitioning to the cable provider and not having to worry about getting HD OTA. I know, OTA is quite a bit better quality due to compression, etc. etc... but Cox's HD will be hands down better than what I currently have. And like most non-enthusiasts, I would be more than happy with.

I currently have a 47" rear projection widescreen Samsung "HDTV ready" TV I don't have an HDTV tuner. I was thinking I could get away with a Satellite HD tuner that has OTA capabilities and just not subscribe or activate the receiver for satellite service and just utilize it as an inexpensive HD receiver. Does this work? I see them on eBay for $25-50 vs. HD tuners that are $100+

Keeping in mind that my budget for this is $100 with antenna, tuner, cable, etc. and although I would like to pick up all the major HD stations in the area, but if spending $25 on an antenna gets me 3out of 4 versus spending $100 to get me all of them... I'll just go for the $25 one.

I was thinking something like a Zenith ZHDTV1 HDTV-UHF Digital Indoor Antenna along with a Samsung SIR-TS360 or a voom or other DirecTV HD satellite receiver with OTA capabilities.

What would some of you recommend? What would you do if you had $100 budget?
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post #624 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 11:07 AM
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If that's $100 a month budget, I would recommend cable tv.

I wouldn't buy a used directv receiver, unless you bought it from someone you know. Too many of them have something wrong with them. Some require a valid access card in order for the OTA portion to work. All the new ones require a sub to DirecTV (aka D*) before the OTA will work.

I would buy a standalone OTA receiver, if your TV doesn't have one built in. But they're over $100.

Indoor antennas are not always reliable unless you're close to the transmitters, but if you want to try one, buy it where you can return it if it doesn't work for you.
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post #625 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

... the 360 is how I'm able to watch tv.

This may or may not help:
Go into the installation menu in the local networks field,
CLEAR the local zip codes and reboot the receiver.
After reboot, do a full channel scan for DIGITAL OTA channels.

This may or may not help. If it doesn't, go back and re-enter your local area zip code(s) and re-scan for OTA digital channels.
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post #626 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 04:52 PM
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Has anyone seen an HD broadcast on NBC? Over the last week or so all I've seen has been in SD. Seen some FOX in HD. I'm in the Garfield/Lost Bridge area and am getting all networks with rabbit ears.
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post #627 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 05:01 PM
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Yes, I've seen NBC-HD on 51-1.
Are you watching NBC on 51-1 or 24-2?
24-2 is NBC-SD
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post #628 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbzilla View Post

...
What would some of you recommend? What would you do if you had $100 budget?

As a fellow Springdale resident (Har-Ber Meadows, West of 540), I agree with arxaw about staying with cable. If you really want to do it right you will most likely need a larger, roof-mounted antenna with amp. Right there you are probably looking at about $75, before installation help (if you need that). And you still don't have your OTA tuner.

I have been doing a lot of reading and research about tuners since I need at least one for the bedroom, and I've been considering a new one for my main area to replace my Samsung 360. I wouldn't take a chance on an ebay box for fear of it not working. Unfortunately the quality of these boxes seems to keep going down (from what I'm reading, which I believe is correct), even though you would expect the opposite in light of the way technology is improving, seemingly by the day.

The good thing about Cox is they can give you the harware and you can cancel at any time without any investment, at least as I understand it. Going through that process and continuing to read this (and other) forums will educate yourself. You'll probably wind up being like nearly everyone else, where you start with a very modest budget and in no time at all you've had "price creep" and have invested in a whole new system.

Good luck.
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post #629 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

This may or may not help:
Go into the installation menu in the local networks field,
CLEAR the local zip codes and reboot the receiver.
After reboot, do a full channel scan for DIGITAL OTA channels.

This may or may not help. If it doesn't, go back and re-enter your local area zip code(s) and re-scan for OTA digital channels.

In the local networks field, I have 3 things - "primary air," "secondary air" and "cable." None of them have zip codes entered.

So - I entered the zip in all three fields, rebooted, rescaned, and got several new things, but no 27.1, plus I lost 51.1 and 2, although they were unwatchable anyway. Now I have KHBSDT 40.1 (snow) and KPBICA Channel 46 (snow), which seems to be the old Springdale Fox network, K45EI (snow), etc.
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post #630 of 3402 Old 09-06-2006, 05:36 PM
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I would only recommend cable if he has $100 a month budgeted for pay TV.

If I were on a budget, I would save up enough money for a good OTA setup. Once you've purchased the antenna & tuner, there's no cableco to pay each month.
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