Fort Smith, AR - HDTV - Page 24 - AVS Forum
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post #691 of 3402 Old 09-16-2006, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 4029engineering View Post

They should reach Springdale with no problem. Do you pick up 24 analog now? The first DTV power levels authorized were chosen to give them the same reach as their analog counterpart. The map on their FCC license shows the 41 db signal (where the computers think the signal will not be usable with a standard outside antenna) reaches to just inside Rogers. As I always stress though, you will probably need more than rabbit ears.

I don't pick up 24 analog OTA. But I have a Channel Master 4228 with preamp which is on top of my roof and I have no line of sight issues. I spent an hour today repositioning my antenna and never picked it up. I'm also out of luck on 51.1 and 51.2 because they aren't in line with 5 and 29.
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post #692 of 3402 Old 09-16-2006, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

I don't pick up 24 analog OTA. But I have a Channel Master 4228 with preamp which is on top of my roof and I have no line of sight issues. I spent an hour today repositioning my antenna and never picked it up. I'm also out of luck on 51.1 and 51.2 because they aren't in line with 5 and 29.

You might try another antenna, I live in North Springdale, and can receive 5, 29, and 51 in HD using a indoor electric antenna. It's actually sitting behind my TV. I tested atop a ladder, thinking we could move it to the attic to get Fox 24, but all I could get was a very snowy picture on the analog, and zip for the digital.

I appreciate your post. I would hate to install an outdoor antenna and then find out the signal does not reach NW Arkansas.

Do you know if Cox is carrying Fox in HD yet? I suppose that is an option if we cannot receive it OTA. Although, I prefer satellite.
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post #693 of 3402 Old 09-16-2006, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmie View Post

You might try another antenna, I live in North Springdale, and can receive 5, 29, and 51 in HD using a indoor electric antenna. It's actually sitting behind my TV. I tested atop a ladder, thinking we could move it to the attic to get Fox 24, but all I could get was a very snowy picture on the analog, and zip for the digital.

I appreciate your post. I would hate to install an outdoor antenna and then find out the signal does not reach NW Arkansas.

Do you know if Cox is carrying Fox in HD yet? I suppose that is an option if we cannot receive it OTA. Although, I prefer satellite.

I don't know about Fox on Cox since I am on D*. Do you receive 13.1? And what model of satellite receiver are you using?
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post #694 of 3402 Old 09-16-2006, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

I don't know about Fox on Cox since I am on D*. Do you receive 13.1? And what model of satellite receiver are you using?

A Samsung Amplified Indoor HDTV antenna, model TV 5.2. We picked it up at Best Buy a couple of years ago. You could plug it in and give it a try. If not, you can return it.
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post #695 of 3402 Old 09-17-2006, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

... I'm also out of luck on 51.1 and 51.2 because they aren't in line with 5 and 29.

Theoliver, If you haven't tried an indoor antenna to see if you can get KNWA-DT I would try it. You're only about 20 miles or so from their tower. I'm down here over 40 miles from channel 5's tower, and I can get a solid 75 percent signal from them on an older Hughes HTL-HD receiver (which I think probably pre-dates your Samsung TS-360), with an 8" piece of wire on the end of a short run of RG-6 cable here by my computer. I usually use a real antenna, of course, but my point is, you might be able to get KNWA-DT with an indoor antenna, and if so, you could hook it and your outside antenna both up to an A-B switch and switch it to whichever antenna you needed when watching TV. I think Radio Shack even carries an A-B switch that can be switched by a remote. The switch would go between your amplifier power supply and tuner like arxaw showed for the splitter HERE. Just a thought. Cheaper and easier than an antenna rotator.
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post #696 of 3402 Old 09-17-2006, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

Is this a major project or something they can do in a few days? In other words, couldn't we expect that they would have the major components for a 1000KW signal in place and they would just have to install or modify a few things once they get they get FCC permission? Or is it like starting over?

It is a huge undertaking. At least a month of solid work once the equipment arrives from the factory.

4029engineering consists of several engineers who are HDTV viewers just like you. Anything said in this forum is their own opinion and not necessairly official KHBS/KHOG policy.
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post #697 of 3402 Old 09-17-2006, 03:27 PM
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arkeng - thanks for the tip. I found the A-B switch on Radio Shack's website and am going to the store to get it tomorrow. Then I just have to pick up an indoor antenna. Any recommendations? I guess it would be smart to get an indoor amplified antenna just on the off chance that it might pick up everything, and then I wouldn't need the A-B switch. I doubt that will happen since it seems that the Channel Master 4228 that I'm currently using is supposed to be the best.
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post #698 of 3402 Old 09-17-2006, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

... indoor antenna. Any recommendations?...

Nothing specific, there are many indoor antennas that may work for you, Kimmie mentioned one that works for his location in North Springdale. I've always been a fan of the bow-tie looking models. But I've never found any guarantees for TV reception, so make sure you can return whatever equipment you buy and keep all the boxes and packaging in the event it doesn't work.
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post #699 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by 4029engineering View Post

I got information from a very reliable "inside" source who is very very very very close to their transmitter, that they are indeed on the air at full authorized power. That power is 200KW on a directional antenna and they will remain at that level until the FCC reconsiders their application for 1000KW...

This no doubt true, but please explain why several people (including some on this board) were able to pick up KFTA-DT for a short time when the new transmitter was first fired up, but haven't been able to receive it since then? A friend here in Carroll County (very near the MO border) picked it up initially, but not a peep since the first few days. He says he cant get even a blip on his signal strength meter for KFTA-DT. I can't either, but do get 24 analog quite well.
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post #700 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by 4029engineering View Post

[re alleged interference complaint from Russellville station]... According to the FCC database, the only other licenses for channel 27 is a translator in Paragould and a transmitter in El Dorado, which I don't think they could interfere with even if they wanted to.

Is it possible that channel 28 in russellville complained of adjacent channel interference? Is this russellville station even on the air?

If they are on the air, then even at only 200kW ERP, KFTA-DT's 41dBU service area would still reach well into ch 28's coverage area.
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post #701 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 07:51 AM
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For the past few weeks, I've noticed that the HiDef ABC channel on Cox does not have any programming info in the guide. It just says something like "go to the tv guide channel for programming info".

I think this may screw up my DVR recordings. The non HD ABC channel has info on there. Anyone know?
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post #702 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 02:15 PM
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Can someone with DirecTV help me?

I live in Farmington (just 2 miles from Fayetteville). I'm currently on Cox cable, but I'm tempted to make the switch because I desperately want Sunday Ticket. But it's hugely important to me that I get the four major networks in HD.

The D* people tell me I'll be able to if I just pay them the extra $50 for the OTA antenna, which they'll install for me. So for those of you who already have D* in this area, is this true? Will I get the HD channels with no problems?
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post #703 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 02:50 PM
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you will see that those of us in the Springdale area are not receiving FOX HD out of Ft. Smith. I would say that you would probably get ABC, NBC and CBS but probably not FOX.
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post #704 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 02:56 PM
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Thanks for the reply.

Do you guys know why you're not getting Fox HD? I've read through the past few pages of this thread, but I honestly just don't understand a lot of it. I'm greatly appreciate a quick summary if you can.

Thanks.
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post #705 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 03:12 PM
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Evidently, they're not broadcasting at high enough power levels to reach everyone on this board. Their coverage area is supposed to be as shown in the map below, from the FCC:


Have you entered your address at http://antennaweb.org ?
That site needs some updating, but should show a conservative list of the channels you can get at your house.

If you can't get FOX-HD OTA, you may be able to get it free through DirecTV, on WNYW-HD out of NY. Enter your address HERE to see if it qualifies for FOX-HD on D*. Although this address/station database is not accurate, it is what D* bases their qualification on. If you don't show qualified for a network at your address, you can't get it from D*, regardless of what your actual reception is.


[edited to clarify last paragraph]
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post #706 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

If you can't get FOX-HD OTA, you should be able to get it free through DirecTV, on WNYW-HD out of NY. Enter your address HERE to see if it qualifies for FOX-HD on D*.

Unfortunately D* has repeatedly refused to give me ANY HD network channels, even when I pointed out that neither NBC nor FOX was broadcasting HD here. I tried several times with no luck, even asking for a specialist in the HD department. I was told that the law changed effective this past January where they couldn't do that anymore,whereas before then they were allowed to. But it wouldn't hurt anything for you to try.

Jake Money, whether you can get the remaining 3 (NBC, ABC and CBS) may depend on where you are on the map, since NBC broadcasts from a quite different location than CBS and ABC. As arxaw recommended, go to antennaweb and put in your address and you can see exactly where they are. You may have the same problem I have, which is you can't find an antenna that can get all of them at once since they (antennas) tend to be somewhat directional.

Later edit:

Check out these results from where I put in my street address to arxaw's D* link:

Digital (HD) Distant Network Service
Network Affiliate Status
ABC KODE-DT Grade B (moderate signal)
KHBS-DT Grade A (strong signal)
CBS KFSM-DT Grade A (strong signal)
FOX KPBI-DT Grade A (strong signal)
NBC KFTA-DT Grade A (strong signal)

KPBI-DT???? Since when???? I guess I've really not been paying attention.
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post #707 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Theoliver View Post

Unfortunately D* has repeatedly refused to give me ANY HD network channels, even when I pointed out that neither NBC nor FOX was broadcasting HD here. I tried several times with no luck, even asking for a specialist in the HD department. I was told that the law changed effective this past January where they couldn't do that anymore,whereas before then they were allowed to...

D* will still give you the New York HD channels. I know someone who recently got them and it was way past January. However, the computer will not allow the CSR to activate the channels if your address doesn't qualify, per the link in my post above. And unfortunately, as shown in your post, the channels in the qualification database are not accurate. But it's what they must base their activation on :-(

When I enter my address, it shows KHBS-DT ABC for my address. But it should show KHOG-DT for ABC in my area.
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post #708 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by casino187 View Post

For the past few weeks, I've noticed that the HiDef ABC channel on Cox does not have any programming info in the guide. It just says something like "go to the tv guide channel for programming info".

I think this may screw up my DVR recordings. The non HD ABC channel has info on there. Anyone know?

It seems that there are ongoing negotiations between Cox and KHOG (or its parent) about how much Cox should pay them for the right to broadcast HD content. The guide is void of content, and for recording reasons, it is a pain. The only way I've been able to get around it is to create a manual recording of the "GO TO TV GUIDE FOR MORE INFO" and extend it for a period up to an hour covering the show that is represented by "NO DATA". "NO DATA" does not allow you to create a manual recording, thus the need to extend the recording. Its a nuisance and hopefully they will get it worked out, otherwise I will be quite frustrated to have to purchase an OTA HD Receiver just to watch ABC. Hope this helps.
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post #709 of 3402 Old 09-18-2006, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

D* will still give you the New York HD channels ...

Maybe I should "move" to Eureka. How much would you charge to forward my mail?
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post #710 of 3402 Old 09-19-2006, 05:12 PM
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Well I am back to report that I am receiving the digital channels I was expecting (not getting 24.1 but do get 51.2) with my sub $100 budget. For those of you interested, I purchased an indoor Zenith Silver Sensor from Amazon for < $20 and I picked up a D* Hughes DTV HTL-HD which requires NO ACTIVATION in order to use it's internal OTA ATSC tuner. I have no complaints about the picture quality and signal strength (as reported by the tuner ) all so Good to Great).
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post #711 of 3402 Old 09-19-2006, 05:46 PM
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Congrats hobbzilla, on your budget system that works.

What's your signal strength on the various channels?
Do you also get KAFT-DT 13-1, 13-2, 13-2 & 13-4 PBS? If so, you're lucky because the silver sensor UHF antenna usually doesn't work too well on highband VHF (chs 7 thru 13) channels.
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post #712 of 3402 Old 09-20-2006, 08:55 PM
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Right now you can get KHOG Digital on Cox using their digital box on 720 and also on 29.1 DT using a QAM Clear tuner (built into some HD sets and some set top boxes like my Sony HDD-250). Does anyone know if COX and KHOG don't come to an agreement, if they will still "pass through" the digital signal on 29.1 DT? I know the won't on channel 720, but will they send it on through on 29.1?
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post #713 of 3402 Old 09-21-2006, 06:39 AM
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The HD channel will be removed from the cable system and you'll need to connect an antenna to your HDTV to view 40-1 or 29-1. Not a problem for most people with a digital OTA tuner.

Depending on where you live and the quality of tuner you own, your antenna requirements could be anything from a simple wire loop antenna attached to the back of the TV (if near enough to the tower), to an attic or outdoor antenna + preamp, in fringe areas.
KHOG-DT 29-1 tower is located HERE:


KHBS-DT 40-1 tower is HERE:
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post #714 of 3402 Old 09-22-2006, 05:02 AM
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Is KNWA-DT off the air?
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post #715 of 3402 Old 09-22-2006, 06:59 AM
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I had nothing from them last night either. The analog was up and running fine, although they did have the little warning map on the screen, so maybe there was some issues in getting the map on the digital feed and they decided to just shut it down instead of figure it out. Not sure if we have had any storm warnings since they have been on the air yet.
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post #716 of 3402 Old 09-22-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

The HD channel will be removed from the cable system and you'll need to connect an antenna to your HDTV to view 40-1 or 29-1. Not a problem for most people with a digital OTA tuner.

I did not make myself clear on this question. I currently get 29-1 via OTA AND 29-1 DT over the cable. I suspect that 4029 wants COX to pay them since they charge customers to use their digital box both for the box rental, for digital cable and for HD service to get 4029 on channel 720. However you don't need the box, digital cable or HD service to get 4029 in HD on cable if you have a QAM tuner, it tunes in on channel 29-1 DT. I thought congress requires all cable providers to provide the HD signal of each local station, hence no charge for 29-1 and no need for additonal COX fees or equipment. So, I suspect that if no settlement is made that COX by law, is required to transmit 4029 on 29-1 anyway. 4029 engineering, am I wrong or is this still true?
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post #717 of 3402 Old 09-22-2006, 10:25 PM
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COX is not required to carry any local television stations. That change in the law is what started all of this. This whole mess is called "Must Carry". Each local station can require the cable company to carry them, in which case they (the TV station) gets no revenue from the cable company and the cable company has no choice except to carry them, or they can elect to negotiate with the cable company for compensation. If they do that and the cable company doesn't want to play that game then the cable company can refuse to pay and the the TV station can forbid them to carry their signal until they do. They can't substitute a non local of the same network either.
Also at issue with Must Carry is at this time must carry only applies to the main channel, or 40-1 or 29-1. Part of the disagreement we are having is that we want it in writing that if we decide to add sub channels, that they will be carried also. Currently they do that in our area but there are COX area's where they don't. As a lawyer once told me, if it's not written in the contract, it doesn't exist.
The change in the law was done by congress because by their reasoning, in the past the cable company was a monopoly and if you couldn't get OTA you had to subscribe to them. They now consider them to have competition, satellite and in some areas microwave. AT&T is getting ready to launch their own system in NW Arkansas (you have been seeing their commercials already where the guy sees his pants being stolen on live tv and runs out and tackles the thief). The marketplace, you, decides what each of these should carry by your subscription.
So, to be clear and answer your question, if COX doesn't sign and my corporate bean counters don't give in, COX will not be allowed to carry our HD signal in any way and your only choice would be over the air or a satellite provider. No satellite provider currently carries our HD signal but they are saying they will by the end of they year.
Also hinted at in the press release is that if that occurs Hearst-Argyle may pull analog as well. They were also quick to point out that Hearst-Argyle also owns a major part of Lifetime, History, Biography, and ESPN. I can't quite remember all the cable only channels. One could speculate that it may come down to COX being without much to offer it's customers if the bean counters decide to push it that far.
PLEASE. This is just me talking, not official Policy, nor do I have any say so in this matter. It is taking place at a corporate level and I just go along for the ride. In fact, I didn't even know about the COX thing until it was brought up here and I started getting email. Generally, engineers are the last to know.

While I am at it, I hear COX is saying the problem with the HD program guide is our doing. Not True. We are doing nothing different than what we have been doing since 2002 when we put it on the air.

4029engineering consists of several engineers who are HDTV viewers just like you. Anything said in this forum is their own opinion and not necessairly official KHBS/KHOG policy.
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post #718 of 3402 Old 09-23-2006, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4029engineering View Post

COX is not required to carry any local television stations.....[snip] Each local station can require the cable company to carry them

Your post doesn't make much sense. If a local station requires the cableco to carry it, then they ARE required to carry it.

NAB lobbyists won this one big time. All the rules favor the broadcasters.
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post #719 of 3402 Old 09-23-2006, 09:15 AM
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Kind of off topic here, well way off topic; I was in Sacramento last week and noticed all of the local tv stations and Comcast heavily promoting their HD programming. Local news is in HD, even their news helicopters, the local high school football games are in HD. Everything was geared toward HD and I can't stress enough how much this was being promoted, it seemed like every other commercial was promoting HD news and local HD programming. My impression here is HD seems not be taken very seriously by our local stations and especially by Cox. There's not that much promotion, and I was wondering why that is? Our population is growing rapidly, but I wonder if the corporate heads at Cox and the owners of the local stations realize we are not sitting in some Arkansas rice field. Our DMA just went from 104 to 102. Wonder how long it will be until we are in the top 100? Next year? I think if HD was promoted more here, more interest in it would be generated and maybe we would get more HD content.
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post #720 of 3402 Old 09-23-2006, 10:10 AM
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It is a matter of expense. As I said before, HAT is currently converting 3 stations. KCCI in Sacramento is one of them. A TV station must be rebuilt from scratch. Practically nothing is re-usable. I would imagine that the bean counters are considering several factors such as: Population Served which equals return on the investment, what the competition is doing, and how close in amount of equipment that is HD ready the TV station already has. I am sure that KHBS/KHOG will be the last or next to last of the 28 HAT stations to convert. I have no idea when that will be, but it will be a LONG time.

The truth is, whether some people on this forum want to believe it or not, TV stations are not the cash cows they once were. Just look at the struggle the other stations in our market are having just getting their mandated full power DTV transmitters on the air.

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