Fort Smith, AR - HDTV - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3402 Old 02-24-2007, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man00 View Post

I didn't spend a lot of time aiming it, but in my case plain rabbit ears was just as good if not better. The DB8 didn't pick up any channel that the rabbit ears didn't. BTW what setup do you have? My goal was to get ABC out of Tulsa

man00, I've got a Channel Master 4228 antenna and a 7777 preamp on a mast about 15 feet tall pointed northwest so I can get NBC in HD from KJRH-DT in Tulsa. I also have a second setup with an old Channel Master 4221 antenna and a cheapie preamp hooked up to an HDTV card here in my PC, mainly just for playing around, but it also comes in handy when the wife has control of the TV. You should also be able to get KOET-DT (PBS) from Eufaula. Good luck on trying for ABC in HD OTA from Tulsa. They're only transmitting 6.9kW of power. But a preamp with that DB8 might help.
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post #1082 of 3402 Old 02-25-2007, 06:23 AM
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Is KHOG-DT 29-1 off the air again? I get 100% signal strength but no picture or sound.
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post #1083 of 3402 Old 02-25-2007, 06:30 AM
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man00,
The DB8 requires careful aiming. Depending on where you live, just a few degrees off-axis can make or break reception.

arkeng,
Thanks for posting the DB8 info link. I have a question you may be able to answer. If the wiring bridge of (the two ganged 4221s that make up) a 4228 were modified to something similar to the DB8, do you think it would improve gain of the 4228? I don't really need more gain, but am just curious if rewiring it would help.

DB8


CM4228
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post #1084 of 3402 Old 02-25-2007, 02:34 PM
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arxaw, I do like the looks of that DB8 hookup, it sure is neat and organized. I've never liked the way the 4221 or 4228 hookup is laid out, forcing one to run the coax through or down the antenna while trying to orient the balun to keep the antenna leads separated. I think any gain improvement might be offset by the losses in the baluns and combiner. But I've been wrong before...

man00, my mind must have been a little fuzzy last night. I should have also mentioned that the ABC affiliate in Tulsa, KTUL-DT, is channel 10, in the VHF range. If you try a preamp with your DB8, it should be capable of amplifying both UHF and VHF channels, like the Channel Master 7777 or similar. And although your DB8 is a UHF antenna, from the calculated antenna gain curves HERE it appears that it might be as good at channel 10 as most of the VHF and VHF/UHF combo antennas. I know my 4221 and 4228 do a fine job on KAFT-DT, channel 9.
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post #1085 of 3402 Old 02-25-2007, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkeng View Post

arxaw, I do like the looks of that DB8 hookup, it sure is neat and organized. I've never liked the way the 4221 or 4228 hookup is laid out, forcing one to run the coax through or down the antenna while trying to orient the balun to keep the antenna leads separated. I think any gain improvement might be offset by the losses in the baluns and combiner. But I've been wrong before...

man00, my mind must have been a little fuzzy last night. I should have also mentioned that the ABC affiliate in Tulsa, KTUL-DT, is channel 10, in the VHF range. If you try a preamp with your DB8, it should be capable of amplifying both UHF and VHF channels, like the Channel Master 7777 or similar. And although your DB8 is a UHF antenna, from the calculated antenna gain curves HERE it appears that it might be as good at channel 10 as most of the VHF and VHF/UHF combo antennas. I know my 4221 and 4228 do a fine job on KAFT-DT, channel 9.

KTUL is the one I'm after in HD, only because Ft Smith ABC doesn't show the same football games..I can get KTUL off cable which I still have. If no luck with the DB8 I will keep cable. From what I been told KTUL is quite a reach on UHF if not impossible.
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post #1086 of 3402 Old 02-25-2007, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man00 View Post

...From what I been told KTUL is quite a reach on UHF if not impossible.

KTUL-DT is not on UHF. It is on VHF channel 10. But they have a very low transmitter power of only 6.9kW ERP.
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post #1087 of 3402 Old 02-25-2007, 05:50 PM
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KTUL isn't on channel 10 here its 8.1, 8.2 and I think 8.3..
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programm...me%5B%5D=Tulsa

Doesn't really matter anyway odds not good that I will lock on.
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post #1088 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man00 View Post

KTUL isn't on channel 10 here its 8.1, 8.2 and I think 8.3..
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/programm...me%5B%5D=Tulsa

Doesn't really matter anyway odds not good that I will lock on.

man00, Stations don't transmit their digital (HD) signals on the same channel they transmit their analog signals. The FCC assigned each station a new, separate channel for digital programming. This allows the stations to continue broadcasting their analog signal on their old channel while they are gearing up on the new channel for the transition to digital. Some of the new digital channel assignments were in the VHF band (channels 2-13), but most were in UHF (channels 14-69). KTUL, channel 8, was given channel 10 for its digital transmissions; KHBS, channel 40, was given digital channel 21, channel 5 was given channel 18, and so on. There is potential for confusion with two separate channels for each station, and the broadcasters were also concerned about their "branding" (their promos, logos, nicknames and such, their identities that had developed over years and years and were associated with their old channel numbers), and customer programming guides, etc. To help with these and probably other issues, the concept of virtual channels was included in the digital broadcasting scheme.

HD television is transmitted to your receiver in streams of information. Data within the stream tells your receiver to associate the program you're watching not with its actual channel number, but with a virtual channel number, an alias, instead. This virtual channel number almost always begins with the station's analog channel number, such as 8.1, 8.2 or 8.3, so people who have been watching channel 8 since 1955 can still associate the programming with channel 8, and programming guides and information sources just have to reference the virtual channel numbers. The minor part of the virtual channel number, that part after the decimal, just designates an extra channel, a subchannel, that is transmitted as part of the digital stream. Some stations transmit one or more subchannels, some don't. Channel 8 apparently has three. The actual digital channel numbers are normally unnecessary for the viewer. But sometimes, like when you need an antenna for a digital channel, or if you have to manually enter a digital channel for your receiver to search for a distant digital signal, you need the real digital channel number. KJRH in Tulsa, for example, is on analog channel 2, low VHF, but its digital signal, KJRH-DT, is on channel 56, high UHF, and a VHF-only antenna just wouldn't work for KJRH-DT.

Sorry for the confusion.
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post #1089 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 05:43 AM
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Hey all, I can't believe I haven't found this forum after all these years. I am an early adopter of OTA HD and have been struggling on my own for over 2 years now and a longtime member of AVS. I have both a Mits 55 HD projection TV and an InFocus IN72 projector with a 100 inch screen.

Magazine is about 40 miles SE of Ft. Smith. I have a Dish 622 HD receiver and use that for OTA as well. I am using a little Radio Shack U-75R UHF antenna on a 25 foot aluminum mast (no amp).

I point it to 330 degrees and pick up the ABC-HD station at about 95% and the CBS-HD station at about 75% even though the ABC station is 260 Degrees from me at about 50 miles and the CBS station is 300 degrees at 40 miles.

I don't know how long that the new FOX (old NBC) station has been broadcasting their HD signal but I did stumble across it last week. I didn't check the signal but was able to watch for a couple of nights without any incident. Now though, the channel doesn't come in and the signal strength is below 60. They are at 300 degrees from me (that is why my little antenna is pointed there) and about 42 miles away.

Does anybody know what is going on with the FOX-HD station/signal? I believe they are at 24-1 and they use KFTA-DT.

Also, any advice at all that would help me get this station from my location would be greatly appreciated. I have no problems at all with the ABC-HD and the CBS-HD signal at all, but really like my NASCAR in HD. I am getting network HD with my 622 out of Nashville but Dish Network's HD channels are so horribly compressed, that I can barely stand to watch them. Fox is the worst and that is why the mild desperation to get this OTA FOX HD channel in.

Thanks everybody for any assistance, be it antenna or amp advice and/or channel/station information.

George -bub
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post #1090 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 06:54 AM
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man00,
Enter your address at http://www.antennaweb.org
In the results for digitial channels, you'll see both the virtual channel (the channel that displays on your TV) and the actual physical channel they're broadcasting on, which is shown as the "Frequency Assignment."

KTUL-DT 8-1 is broadcasting on VHF channel 10.
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post #1091 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 07:01 AM
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bub,
Many people in the FSM/FAY area, and on AVSForum have had good results with these antennas and preamp:
Channel Master CM 4228 UHF antenna (usually also works well for high VHF chs 7 thru 13)
Antennas Direct XG91 UHF antenna (usually also works well for high VHF chs 7 thru 13)
Channel Master CM 7777 VHF+UHF low noise preamp.

The CM 4228 is probably the most popular antenna on AVSForum.

Enter station call letters only HERE to see where TV stations' towers are located. Click the coverage maps.
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post #1092 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

bub,
Many people in the FSM/FAY area, and on AVSForum have had good results with these antennas and preamp:
Channel Master CM 4228 UHF antenna (usually also works well for high VHF chs 7 thru 13)
Antennas Direct XG91 UHF antenna (usually also works well for high VHF chs 7 thru 13)
Channel Master CM 7777 VHF+UHF low noise preamp.

The CM 4228 is probably the most popular antenna on AVSForum.

Enter station call letters only HERE to see where TV stations' towers are located. Click the coverage maps.

Thanks arxaw,
I'm concerned that the 4228 has a smaller reception/focus/direction area than the antenna I'm using now. I have towers at 260, 306 and 332 degrees. Even though I point my antenna at 300 degrees, the reception from the 260 degree tower is the best (ABC at 95%) and the 332 degree tower comes in at 75%. I'm struggling to figure out why the station, my antenna points directly at and is closer than the ABC station, is having problems lately (but was fine for awhile, even though the signal strength was lower). Will the 4228 continue to provide the spread I need?

Also, I was able to get the FOX station at 306 degrees fine for a few days. I'm not sure what has happened, perhaps the station dropped their power or...

Thanks again for the help, I appreciate it greatly,
George
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post #1093 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bub View Post

Thanks arxaw,
I'm concerned that the 4228 has a smaller reception/focus/direction area than the antenna I'm using now.

Generally, the kind of antenna you are using is more directional than bowties like the 4228. From what I've read, the XG91 I mentioned is also more directional.

If you don't have a preamp, I would consider adding that for now. Get a good low noise preamp, like the CM 7777. Rat shack amps' listed gain/noise levels are usually exaggerated in their favor.
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post #1094 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 08:09 AM
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For specific KFTA-DT reception problems, contact the station at:
mycomments@myfox24.com

Request that the email be forwarded to the CE or GM.
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post #1095 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

Generally, the kind of antenna you are using is more directional than bowties like the 4228. From what I've read, the XG91 I mentioned is also more directional.

If you don't have a preamp, I would consider adding that for now. Get a good low noise preamp, like the CM 7777. Rat shack amps' listed gain/noise levels are usually exaggerated in their favor.

Well, as far as being more directional, I am getting 95% signal from a tower 261 degrees from me while the antenna is pointing at 330 degrees, that is almost a right angle. How much less directional could an antenna be, just curious?

Weird thing, just pulled up the FOX station and back up to 72%, been sub-60% for the last 3 or 4 days.

Thank you for the FOX email address, I will send them an email. I found the phone number for them as well and left a message, maybe they will return my call.

Thank you again for your help,
George
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post #1096 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bub View Post

Well, as far as being more directional, I am getting 95% signal from a tower 261 degrees from me while the antenna is pointing at 330 degrees, that is almost a right angle. How much less directional could an antenna be, just curious?

Oh, I don't know. Quite a bit less, I guess. I get Springfield, MO stations 70 miles away, off the back side of a CM 4228 antenna aimed at FAY. This is combined with a CM 7777 preamp and a DirecTV H20-600 D*/OTA receiver.

This is my reception experience at my address and elevation (1400'). Its quite possible that I'm getting a bounced signal for the Springfield stations. The Springfield analogs on another TV look like crap, unless I rotate the antenna toward that direction. The H20-600 receiver is excellent at using multipath to its advantage, and I have to try pretty hard to find a direction to aim the antenna where I can not pick up most of the stations from these 2 markets.

So, YMMV, of course.
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post #1097 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bub View Post

...Does anybody know what is going on with the FOX-HD station/signal? I believe they are at 24-1 and they use KFTA-DT....
George -bub

bub, KFTA-DT's power has been up and down several times since they went on the air. When they're up, I get their signal at 100 percent, when they're down, the signal goes down to 85 percent. Their signal strength, as measured by my HDTV card, is almost exactly 10 dB down from their normal when this happens. For the last few days the power has been down. Over the holidays it lasted almost a month. Usually it only lasts a few days. As of right now, it's back to 100 percent.

When it happens again, email the KFTA manager at mhouston@myfox24.com and let him know about the situation. I've sent him emails when it happens and he's pretty good about responding and seems to welcome feedback.
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post #1098 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 03:43 PM
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arkeng, thanks for posting marty's email addy. I was going to post it, but couldn't find it.

Do you know if KFTA-DT is still fighting interference complaints from equity and their phantom station (ch 28) in Russellville?

And is KFTA-DT ever going to increase their power to 1000 kW ERP, like KNWA-DT?
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post #1099 of 3402 Old 02-26-2007, 08:07 PM
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arxaw, I don't know what's going on with the lawsuits between equity and Nexstar/Mission about KFTA. On the FCC website the last legal action noted was in August of last year, but I haven't figured out yet how to get to those to read them. Finding documents on the FCC website appears to be an art.

Don't know why KFTA didn't pursue that 1000 kW construction permit either, but my guess is that it was a financial decision. Maybe in 2009 when their 2510 kW analog monster goes away.
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post #1100 of 3402 Old 02-27-2007, 08:29 AM
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Maybe if they get enough complaints that the station can't be received OTA.

Oh, I forgot, it's a nexstar/mission station. They don't care about OTA viewers.
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post #1101 of 3402 Old 02-27-2007, 10:43 AM
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I received a call back from Marty Houston from KFTA 24-1 and 24-2 out of Ft. Smith and he said that their power is consistent with no fluctuations.

He has received numerous complaints regarding their signal but ALL complaints come from Dish Network customers. He thinks there is an issue with the Dish Network ATSC tuners. The complaints he is getting claim fluctuating signal strengths. That isn't the problem I'm having, which is days without any signal.

Oh well, I have his number and an offer to call him whenver the signal is lost and he will then contact his engineers. My DN VIP 622 is the only ATSC tuner I have so can't check if it is the problem. I have had absolutely no problem getting the ABC and CBS HD feeds OTA for two years now.

Luck all,
George
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post #1102 of 3402 Old 02-27-2007, 06:26 PM
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Dish 622 users in Springfield are having problems with the Fox station there. And only the fox station. You might mention that to Marty if you talk to him again.

I also think a preamp would help your reception.
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post #1103 of 3402 Old 02-27-2007, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bub View Post

I received a call back from Marty Houston from KFTA 24-1 and 24-2 out of Ft. Smith and he said that their power is consistent with no fluctuations...

bub, it happens. I wouldn't call what I see a fluctuation. It's a big drop in power. It is consistent, it stays dropped for a day or two or longer until the problem goes away or somebody fixes it. I don't have a dish receiver, I've got a DVICO HDTV card and two D* receivers split up into two separate systems with dedicated antennas . All show a decrease in signal strength when it happens. I've told Marty that before.

Next time I observe a power drop here I'll post it and send him an email. I didn't last time because it was over the weekend and the power was back up on Monday. I should have, it might have given your complaint some additional support. Sorry about that. Right now their signal is fine.

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post #1104 of 3402 Old 02-28-2007, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by arkeng View Post

bub, it happens. I wouldn't call what I see a fluctuation. It's a big drop in power. It is consistent, it stays dropped for a day or two or longer until the problem goes away or somebody fixes it. I don't have a dish receiver, I've got a DVICO HDTV card and two D* receivers split up into two separate systems with dedicated antennas . All show a decrease in signal strength when it happens. I've told Marty that before.

Next time I observe a power drop here I'll post it and send him an email. I didn't last time because it was over the weekend and the power was back up on Monday. I should have, it might have given your complaint some additional support. Sorry about that. Right now their signal is fine.


If you want, PM me and I will give you my private email address and we can stay in touch when/if this happens again. I don't have a lot of experience with this trouble because I just two weeks ago noticed that FOX was broadcasting.

I also have Mr. Houstons phone number (he said to give him a call if it happened again). I would love to be able to give him the benefit of the doubt, but since you have indicated that you've exchanged information with him as well, I'm having a hard time believing what he told me, which is 100% of the problems reported to him have been Dish Network customers. He was very emphatic about that point, nobody is complaining but DN customers with HD equipment from DN.

By the way, did you notice the FOX signal was 'down' from about Friday 23rd to Monday 26th?

Anyways, let's see if we can get this resolved.

George
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post #1105 of 3402 Old 02-28-2007, 03:08 PM
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bub,
Have you looked at the dish 622/fox problems on the springfield thread?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...01#post9902001
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post #1106 of 3402 Old 02-28-2007, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bub View Post

If you want, PM me and I will give you my private email address and we can stay in touch when/if this happens again. I don't have a lot of experience with this trouble because I just two weeks ago noticed that FOX was broadcasting.

I also have Mr. Houstons phone number (he said to give him a call if it happened again). I would love to be able to give him the benefit of the doubt, but since you have indicated that you've exchanged information with him as well, I'm having a hard time believing what he told me, which is 100% of the problems reported to him have been Dish Network customers. He was very emphatic about that point, nobody is complaining but DN customers with HD equipment from DN.

By the way, did you notice the FOX signal was 'down' from about Friday 23rd to Monday 26th?

Anyways, let's see if we can get this resolved.

George

Or at least ask Marty Houston over for a cold beer.
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post #1107 of 3402 Old 03-03-2007, 04:42 PM
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If you have a DirecTV H20 (non-DVR) receiver, there is a window tonight and tomorrow night to manually download an update for your receiver. This update supposedly has some bug fixes and adds the DirecTV interactive features found on other receivers.

This is not a national update and is AYOR. Details and instructions over at DBSTalk dot com, HERE.
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post #1108 of 3402 Old 03-03-2007, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

If you have a DirecTV H20 (non-DVR) receiver, there is a window tonight and tomorrow night to manually download an update for your receiver. This update supposedly has some bug fixes and adds the DirecTV interactive features found on other receivers.

This is not a national update and is AYOR. Details and instructions over at DBSForums dot com, HERE.

arxaw, thanks for the heads up.
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post #1109 of 3402 Old 03-04-2007, 07:19 AM
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arkeng,

I did the H20 update.

System response is much faster for the H20-600.
480p can now be disabled (-600 model)
D* interactive now works (yawn)
Signal strength meter for D* shows relatively higher numbers now.
Signal strength meter for OTA shows more accurate SS changes than before.
All favorite were lost, requiring rebuilding fav list.
Vague non-receivable channels were added to the OTA list. I don't remember the call letters, but they all start with "W" instead of "K"...

DBSTalk members report that MPEG4 reception was hosed for most who updated. This does not affect NWA viewers because there are no MPEG4 channels here yet. D* will likely have that problem corrected by the time MPEG4 on D* arrives in NWA.
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post #1110 of 3402 Old 03-04-2007, 07:42 AM
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No. You have to be in front of the receiver at that time, hit the reset button and enter the proper codes (per the DBSTalk thread).

10pm CST is when the window begins.
arxaw is offline  
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