Fort Smith, AR - HDTV - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 3402 Old 03-26-2006, 05:46 PM
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13 (analog & digital) coming in fine here in Carroll County.
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post #242 of 3402 Old 03-26-2006, 10:13 PM
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Thanks arxaw, they're coming in fine here now also, I wasn't getting anything at all on their digital earlier this afternoon. I just replaced my 4221 antenna with a 4228 and was afraid I had done something to my reception of KAFT-DT. But it's OK now. And now I'm finally getting Fox from Tulsa with the 4228. As expected, the signal strength on some of my other digital channels has suffered a little due to the narrower beamwidth of the 4228, but I still receive them all.
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post #243 of 3402 Old 03-27-2006, 12:52 AM
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While installing the new antenna I pointed it toward Tontitown to see if I could get KSBN-DT. No luck, not a pixel. Just checked the FCC website and saw that KSBN was granted an extension to continue operating at low power until 07/01/2006.
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post #244 of 3402 Old 03-27-2006, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkeng View Post

... I wasn't getting anything at all on their digital earlier this afternoon. I just replaced my 4221 antenna with a 4228 and was afraid I had done something to my reception of KAFT-DT. But it's OK now. And now I'm finally getting Fox from Tulsa with the 4228...

Don't you just *hate* making an equipment change only to find a station missing you previously got? Drives you nuts thinking it's something you did, only to find out the station was down!

How's the SS on KAFT-DT using the 4228?
How far are you as the crow flies from Tulsa? Do you get all their stations?
What preamp are you using?
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post #245 of 3402 Old 03-27-2006, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkeng View Post

While installing the new antenna I pointed it toward Tontitown to see if I could get KSBN-DT. No luck, not a pixel.

You aren't missing much on KSBN-DT.

I'm pretty sure that's where I'm getting the USDTV barker channel, because the barker channel signal strength is identical to KSBN's regular broadcast subchannel (58% on an old Samsung TS 360).
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post #246 of 3402 Old 03-27-2006, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

...How's the SS on KAFT-DT using the 4228?
How far are you as the crow flies from Tulsa? Do you get all their stations?
What preamp are you using?

arxaw, here's a list of the stations I can get reliably, as of today. Don't know if I've got the antenna set just right yet or not, all the signal levels have been consistent for a couple of days now, but I might have to re-adjust after the trees leaf out. I have the antenna a couple of feet lower than I had the 4221, and haven't tried all height/direction combinations. On my H20 a signal level or 40 or greater will give me a consistent, trouble free picture. All the distances came from the FCC database. The Tulsa channels are transmitted from two towers located within a half-mile of each other, about 96 miles from me. There is another independent channel located there also, and some in Tulsa proper and beyond that I can't receive. I also don't get KTUL-DT, the Tulsa ABC affiliate, even though it's closer, because they're transmitting on channel 10 at a piddling 6.9 kW.

...CALL........CHANNEL.RF.....LOCATION...MILES...SS
KAFT-DT(PBS.....13-1....9...FAYETTEVILLE..42.....84
KHOG-DT(ABC.....29-1...15...FAYETTEVILLE..55.....64
KFSM-DT(CBS).....5-1...18...FORT SMITH....41.....98
KHBS-DT(ABC)....40-1...21...POTEAU, OK....26.....70
KFTA-DT(NBC)....24-1...27...FORT SMITH....33.....72
KOET-DT(PBS).....3-1...31...EUFAULA, OK...61.....68
KOKI-DT(FOX)....23-1...22...TULSA, OK.....96.....52
KOED-DT(PBS)....11-1...38...TULSA, OK.....96.....46
KTFO-DT(UPN)....41-1...42...TULSA, OK.....96.....52
KOTV-DT(CBS).....6-1...55...TULSA, OK.....96.....66
KJRH-DT(NBC).....2-1...56...TULSA, OK.....96.....60

As you can see, KAFT-DT comes in well even though it's VHF, 40 miles away and about 75 degrees off the antenna axis. I'm using a CM 7777 preamp with the input set for combined UHF/VHF.

What kind of antenna setup do you have up there? I think you mentioned you receive some Missouri stations?
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post #247 of 3402 Old 03-28-2006, 08:27 AM
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arxaw-When I first moved to Pea Ridge, I was able to get NBC, CBS, and Fox, from Tulsa for the first couple of days, and then lost it so I just assumed it was DX season and that was why I was getting them. I was also getting ABC from Joplin in digital, but haven't seen anything since then, but that was with the RS 15-880 or whatever those are called. I have tried again since getting the H20, but haven't gotten any signals from it, so I assumed that it would be out of the question for me with just those, but am excited to know if you can do it with your outside set-up.
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post #248 of 3402 Old 03-28-2006, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkeng View Post

...What kind of antenna setup do you have up there? I think you mentioned you receive some Missouri stations?

Right now, I have a medium range V/U antenna of unknown brand on a rotor, which I keep pointed at Fay. (the rotor needs to be replaced). The antenna was here when I bought the house. It is connected to a CM 7777 preamp. I used to have a silver sensor in the attic aimed at springfield combined with the roof antenna, but have disconnected it.

Aimed toward FAY towers:
KFSM-DT is unwatchable due to dropouts from 48% to 0. It used to come in fine with the H20-600 I had, but the replacement H20-100 won't lock it in.
KAFT-DT @ 100%
KHOG-DT @ 100%
KSBN-DT @ 48% + dropouts - never watch it.
With the antenna pointed in the wrong direction, I also get springfield:
KYTV-DT @ ~80%
KOZK-DT @ ~60-80%

Without moving the antenna, i can also get tulsa KJRH 2 on an analog TV, but it's very snowy.
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post #249 of 3402 Old 03-28-2006, 08:52 AM
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nj829, if I get a 4228, I'll let you know if I can get TULSA or Joplin.

Side note: The h20-100 appears to have a bug that will allow you to receive OTA digital channels from 3 markets. My Mena, AR "service" address zip code is the main setup zip code for the dish location (where the dish is uh, "located"). Any Mena service address gets all NY HD DNS chs plus the LR locals. Additionally the "all channels" guide shows all the OTA digital chs in LR, which of course I can't receive. I put zips for Avoca and Eureka in the 2 local market (OTA) zip code fields. That adds all the FSM/FAY & Springfield DMA channels to the guide, allowing me to get those OTA chs with the H20.
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post #250 of 3402 Old 03-28-2006, 09:37 AM
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Since we went on the air we have been sending SD in keyhole mode.
Our encoder has several other options and I thought we might try them out and see if we liked something else better. So I am counting on you guys to give me some feedback. Here are the options:

1. Keyhole: This is the mode we have been running. The advantage is that the entire picture is displayed. The disadvantage is that the sides of the screen are left black. Over a period of time some LCD monitors will develop a condition where the sides of the screen will have a different brightness than the center where the picture is most of the time. Sort of screen burn.
2. Keyhole2: This mode seems to stretch the picture just a little both horizontally and vertically. The video still looks normal but the picture still doesn't reach fully to the sides.
3. Letterbox: The picture is stretched both horizontally and vertically to fill the screen. There is no picture distortion but the top and the bottom of the picture is cropped off.
4. Anamorphic: The picture is stretched horizontally to fill the screen. Some content, especially people look short and dumpy.

Today I switched to Mode 4, Anamorphic. Tomorrow I will do letterbox. Thursday I'll do Keyhole2.

Let me know which mode you think is best. Also I will need to know how this is coming out on those cable companies that are picking up the DTV signal off air as their source for 40/29. I know Huntsville and Clarksville are doing that.
Of course none of this should affect HD which is already 16:9 format.

Larry Friddle, Chief Engineer 40/29

4029engineering consists of several engineers who are HDTV viewers just like you. Anything said in this forum is their own opinion and not necessairly official KHBS/KHOG policy.
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post #251 of 3402 Old 03-28-2006, 12:32 PM
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Hi Larry,
Thanks for warning about trying out the different format modes. From reading many posts in other threads on AVSForum about stretching vs. Original Aspect Ratio, the vast majority of people prefer Original Aspect Ratio (or Keyhole1 as you posted). ESPN tried different stretch modes initially and most people hated it. TNT-HD is doing "stretch-the-sides-to-make 4:3-into-16:9", and it looks really bad when people move to the edge of the screen.

Your #4 Anamorphic is really unwatchable. Hopefully others will chime in on this.

I think OAR is best for three reasons:
1. Most all consumer displays and set top boxes now allow the home viewer to stretch, crop, zoom or otherwise change the aspect ratio the way they want it on their display.
2. When the station changes the 4:3 OAR image to fill the 16:9 frame, if the home viewer doesn't like the results, it's impossible for them to undo the stretching.
3. Sending OAR is the way virtually all other networks and stations send the 4:3 image. If the home viewer using their TV's controls, has modified the 4:3 image to their preference, when they flip to a station that's being stretched by the MCO, they have to go into their format options to try and correct the mess.

My 2ยข
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post #252 of 3402 Old 03-28-2006, 06:03 PM
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Hello, I was curious to see if anyone could tell me how the HD and digital signals are around the Harrison/Diamond City area.

HD OTA From Houston, TX

KPRC 2 (NBC-HD)
KUHT 8 (PBS-HD)
KHOU 11 (CBS-HD)
KTRK 13 (ABC-HD)
KTXH 20 (MNTV-HD)
KRIV 26 (FOX-HD)
KIAH 39 (CW-HD)
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post #253 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 08:42 AM
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Keith,
Judging for the location on a map, it looks to me like OTA reception is going to be iffy at best. If you aren't on a hilltop it would be highly unlikely.
It is certainly well outside our -41dB contour (the area considered as normal signal). Some of the other stations planning on transmitting megawatt power may reach there (none are on the air yet). Depends a lot on line of sight to the transmitter. I have one guy in West St. Louis that says he has no problem picking up 29-1.

So it looks like to me that realistically, cable or satellite is the best bet.

4029engineering consists of several engineers who are HDTV viewers just like you. Anything said in this forum is their own opinion and not necessairly official KHBS/KHOG policy.
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post #254 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithAR2002 View Post

Hello, I was curious to see if anyone could tell me how the HD and digital signals are around the Harrison/Diamond City area.

Try entering the complete address (9-digit ZIP will help) at:
http://www.antennaweb.org
It will give you a conservative estimate of available digital and analog OTA reception. Most like reception will be AETN from Mountain View and/or KYTV-DT (NBC) & KOZK-DT (PBS) from Springfield. Some people there have reported getting those stations, plus KHOG-DT (ABC) from Fayetteville.

If antennaweb.org shows nothing receivable at the address, enter the address HERE to see if it qualifies for the "Big 4" HD networks (CBS, NBC, FOX & ABC) from New York on DirecTV. Most addresses that can't receive OTA HD can get these networks from DirecTV, free, for addresses that qualify and have the DirecTV HD package.
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post #255 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 11:09 AM
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Larry,

Please fix the stretched image on 29-1. I don't get analog (my tuner is digital only) so it's my only source for NWA news. Had to watch springfield news last night because 29-1 is just too blurry and cut off, when stretched and zoomed.
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post #256 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 11:51 AM
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Larry, I would rather have the option of stretching the picture myself, so I would prefer the keyhole mode. I think most receivers have "stretch" modes for folks who prefer a stretched picture that will give similar effects to what you're showing, but some receivers don't have a "shrink" mode that can put the picture back to a 4:3 format for people who prefer a non-stretched image. My vote goes to the keyhole mode.
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post #257 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithAR2002 View Post

Hello, I was curious to see if anyone could tell me how the HD and digital signals are around the Harrison/Diamond City area.


Keith, I live just outside Harrison and get KHOG and KFSM perfectly. Both signal strengths usually in the 70s. I also get KYTV and occasionally KOLR from Springfield.
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post #258 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 03:25 PM
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Experiment ended. The results were just too horrible to continue. Back to Keyhole mode.

4029engineering consists of several engineers who are HDTV viewers just like you. Anything said in this forum is their own opinion and not necessairly official KHBS/KHOG policy.
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post #259 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 03:38 PM
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4029engineering.
Thanks! Now I can watch the NWA news again
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post #260 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 03:45 PM
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Count me as one who prefers keyhole.

P.S. I appreciate your input on the board. It's been very informative.
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post #261 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 08:26 PM
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I wondered what was going on. Knew I should have checked in here first. I prefer the keyhole mode.
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post #262 of 3402 Old 03-29-2006, 10:21 PM
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Thank you to everyone who provided info for me on the Diamond City area. My dad has a vacation home there, and I'm heading up there for a little vacation soon, and I just wanted to know what to expect as far as HD went. Thanks again for all your help!

HD OTA From Houston, TX

KPRC 2 (NBC-HD)
KUHT 8 (PBS-HD)
KHOU 11 (CBS-HD)
KTRK 13 (ABC-HD)
KTXH 20 (MNTV-HD)
KRIV 26 (FOX-HD)
KIAH 39 (CW-HD)
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post #263 of 3402 Old 03-30-2006, 09:03 AM
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Hey 40/29, I missed the experiment, any chance you can go back to it for a day just so I can see????????????

Just kidding guys, was watching last night and noticed it looked the same as it had and assumed the experiment was over.
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post #264 of 3402 Old 03-30-2006, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithAR2002 View Post

Thank you to everyone who provided info for me on the Diamond City area. My dad has a vacation home there, and I'm heading up there for a little vacation soon, and I just wanted to know what to expect as far as HD went. Thanks again for all your help!

No problem. I am on the western side of Boone County, DC is on the Northeast. It may be a stretch getting KHOG and KFSM over there.

At any rate, enjoy your stay up here. And watch out for the Yankees. That place is infested with them.
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post #265 of 3402 Old 03-30-2006, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Arkie View Post

... At any rate, enjoy your stay up here. And watch out for the Yankees. That place is infested with them.

LOL. You should go to Benton county...
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post #266 of 3402 Old 03-30-2006, 02:53 PM
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Hey hey...I am from Iowa and get enough of the Yankee talk from my in-laws...wait, I am in Benton county, no wonder it feels like home!
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post #267 of 3402 Old 03-30-2006, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arxaw View Post

LOL. You should go to Benton county...


Ha, yeah I used to teach in Springdale and spent quite a bit of time in Benton County. I still think Diamond City could give Bella Vista a run for its money.

When will KNWA go live with their digital stream and do you guys think I can catch their signal over here in West Central Boone County? I get their analog signal fair now. Snowy but watchable.......better than analog KHOG.
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post #268 of 3402 Old 03-31-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkie View Post

Ha, yeah I used to teach in Springdale and spent quite a bit of time in Benton County. I still think Diamond City could give Bella Vista a run for its money.

When will KNWA go live with their digital stream and do you guys think I can catch their signal over here in West Central Boone County? I get their analog signal fair now. Snowy but watchable.......better than analog KHOG.

Hopefully, Nexstar, KNWA's owner will begin construction soon. According to an employee at KARK (Nexstar owned station) in the Little Rock AR thread, KNWA's transmitter equipment is sitting in crates in a building at KARK, awaiting installation. KARK has finished their full power HD buildout and is on the air.

KNWA-DT will be a full power megawatt UHF station on channel 50. Here's a map of the predicted coverage area from the FCC. Reception will vary depending on elevation, weather, antenna type and receiver sensitivity.

[EDIT to correct URL]
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post #269 of 3402 Old 03-31-2006, 09:21 AM
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Oops. I posted the wrong link (see corrected post above). Yes, it does include Boone county.

Search for other stations' coverage contour maps by entering only the station call sign letters HERE.
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post #270 of 3402 Old 04-01-2006, 04:55 PM
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Does anyone get the locals in HD through COX. I have read on this thread that COX offers locals in HD when available over the cable system without a CableCard of Digital cable box needed. I have read that they were on 112-1, 112-3, 109-8, 113-3. (see post 115)

I have an HDTV with tuner. If you are getting these channels, please let me know exactly how you hooked up and tuned. Thanks.
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