Columbia, MO - HDTV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1167 Old 10-29-2004, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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This is the Official discussion thread for the Columbia / Jefferson City, MO DMA.

The following networks are available in HD OTA:
ABC (17-1) 720p/DD2.0
CBS (13-1) 1080i/DD2.0
NBC (8-1) 1080i/DD2.0
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post #2 of 1167 Old 11-08-2004, 08:22 PM
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Well lets get some official discussion going then! I'm in Sedalia Mo.

Ch 17 is solid but has broken my heart by switching off the HD 2 DAYS after I got set up. (ABC out of KC would require me to hang a VHF antenna for their lonely VHF signal so thats out) All those great baseball games, Monday night Football, Prime Time programing missed while they piddle around upgrading the old analog junk. 13 is out of range so far. 8 has been rock solid up until this weekend when is disappeared from digital completely. Any idea if they have had a problem or this is just a fluke of nature? Could not find any e-mail contact information for engineering on their web site....
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post #3 of 1167 Old 11-09-2004, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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It sounds ridiculous, but just keep posting your thoughts/info/questions about Columbia, MO - even if there is nobody else from the area yet. Eventually more members will show up since all Columbia, MO info will be directed to this thread.
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post #4 of 1167 Old 11-09-2004, 05:19 PM
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Great to see this forum up. I am another Sedville resident. I did spring for the channel master v/u antenna for KC digital stations. Did not have any luck with KMIZ, KRCG or KOMU. Great pictures out of the KC stations and many have dd 5.1. Now if only WDAF would get with the program. Can't wait for July 2005 and full power on all the stations.
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post #5 of 1167 Old 11-12-2004, 10:15 PM
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good to see some folks in this forum. I emailed FOX/ABC a few weeks ago and asked why they were not broadcasting in HDTV. They replied that their antennae failed and they were in the process of fixing it. Look for it within 30-60 days they said, so I hope by the New Year we will be able to view.

Has anybody tried a Winegard SquareShooter (either ss1000 or ss2000)? If so, how does it work?

Or, is anyone having good reception with a particular antenna?
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post #6 of 1167 Old 11-14-2004, 05:25 PM
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That Square Shooter looked like a cool little piece, but I'm to far out on the fringe for it to be an option. I started with a R' Shack UHF yagi (Cat # 15-2160} and push down booster, which did a surprisingly good job for a small n cheapie'. Switched to a CM 4248 LARGE size yagi in my never ending attempt to get the KC CBS channel for football games. Really did not gain as much as I had hoped with it. A buddy of mine went with the CM 4228 big screen door size bow tie thing which seems to be working well, so I may try that out for my next trick.

Our local cable company has been telling us for some time that HD is coming...but they have no firm dates or channels. It's a bummer when you have all the stuff to watch HD and can't consistently pull stuff in.


I would love to hear from anyone to the west of Columbia who is receiving KRCG's digital signal.
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post #7 of 1167 Old 11-19-2004, 06:18 PM
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I live in Montgomery City.It's in the eastern fringe area of the Columbia/Jefferson City DMA. I can receive KOMU out of Columbia, KRCG from Jefferson City real good. I get KMOS from Sedalia fairly good. However, receiving KMIZ and its sister stations from Columbia is at best spotty. I'm using a Winegard GS2200A antenna with a Dish 811 HD receiver. I do want to receive KMIZ for the Mizzou b-ball games so it looks like I'm going to have to use a bigger antenna. It's a shame that KRCG is on channel 12 otherwise I'd get a UHF only antenna.
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post #8 of 1167 Old 11-25-2004, 08:16 PM
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Hi everyone.

I live in Columbia just west of Stadium Blvd. and south of Broadway.

I am able to get a good signal for NBC, CBS and ABC/sub-channels. I have lost PBS out of Sedalia for the last few days.

In talking with ABC over the last year, they have no plans to broadcast anything in HD but 17.1. Fox will be SD upconvert for the forseeable future.

Also, KRCG was recently sold by Wheeler Communications to company that manages smaller mid-size markets. We will have to wait and see if their commit to HD broadcasting changes.

Well, glad to see other people out there enjoying HD in Mid-Missouri.
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post #9 of 1167 Old 11-26-2004, 08:11 AM
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Hi pkgman,

It's strange about KMOS. I've been getting good signal strength from them for the past few days. And it's a shame that KMIZ has no plans for HD on their Fox station. I was looking forward to watching the Super Bowl in HD. I didn't know about KRCG being sold. Do you know the name of the company that bought them? And have you heard anything about KJWB, the sister station of KOMU on if they are broadcasting over the air?

From what you described, do you live near Fairview or around the Hulen Lake area? Former Columbian here. HHS Class of 80.
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post #10 of 1167 Old 11-26-2004, 09:37 PM
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I have a great signal tonight from KMOS.

KRCG was sold to Barrington Broadcasting in Illinois

Here's link to it - http ://newstribune.com/articles/2004/11/14/business/0011140418.txt
I do not have 5 posts so I cannot hyperlink yet- sorry.

Not much information about them. It seems that KRCG pulled the links on their website.

No Fox in HD is the pits. But it seems that KMIZ wants to do everything on the cheap. They just want to pack ABC, Fox, UPN and weather channel into their spectrum. Guess its better than when they broadcast FOX from the top of Tiger Hotel. People could not even receive it downtown because their signal was so weak.

Send e-mail to KMIZ. It will either be bounced back to you or you will never receive a response.

I have not heard anything about WB. I only fear that they will take KMIZ's route and go with sub-channel route eventually with KJWB.

I live in Broadway Farms subdivision. Its located between Hulen Lake and Rowthwell Heights (behind Hy-Vee on West Broadway) if you are familar with the new subdivisions.
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post #11 of 1167 Old 11-27-2004, 08:24 PM
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mec6762

You can use a UHF only antenna for channel 13. A UHF antenna does an adaquate job with VHF frequencies above channel 6. I am using a CM 4228 on a tower just outside of Montgomery City. I have no issues what so ever with 17, provided the antenna is pointed there. I also have good luck with St. Louis stations.

Alan
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post #12 of 1167 Old 11-27-2004, 09:07 PM
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alsat

I saw a picture of that model of antenna and it looks pretty good and if you receive all the Columbia and St. Louis stations, then it's got to be powerful. Do you have an preamp/amplifier on your antenna? Also, how high does your antenna sit? Since I live in town, a tower is probably not a good option, but if I can mount it just above the roofline or even better, the side of the house so much the better. Does anyone that you know of near Montgomery carry and install those antennas?

I did get a Radio Shack VU-120XR antenna and a preamp/amplifier this past weekend but have yet to mount it. I'm going to try it tomorrow if it don't rain, and if it don't work I might just have to take a real close look at that ChannelMaster.

Thanks for the information.
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post #13 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 09:24 AM
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We sell and install both Channel Master and Winegard antennas. Yes, I have a preamp on my Channel Master. It is a Winegard AP8275.

Depending on where you live in Montgomery will determine your potential reception. The best locations for St. Louis are on the east side of town, around the fairgrounds and Werges Meadows. Columbia/Jeff City is easy to receive anywhere in town.

Take the Radio Shack stuff back if you haven't opened yet. They are typically overpriced for what you get.

You can call me if you have any questions. My shop number is 564-2031. I will be in the shop tonight after about 6:30 pm.

Alan
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post #14 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 11:00 AM
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I tested the CM4228 back to back with a CM4248. Both with a Radio Shack push down amp and on a rotor. The 4248 has a bit more gain (I'm out on the fringe in Sedalia) but it is incredibly directional, so much so that tiny changes in direction and signal drifts cause drop outs, The 4228 is much more user friendly with it's broader reception pattern. It's also easier on the eyes if thats of any importance. (The 4248 looks like something you might use to launch some kind of EMP attack against the neighborhood with.)

I would highly recommend the CM4228. Check out E-bay. I found them there at 1/2 the price the local folks wanted. You might order one up and experiment a bit before paying a professional installer....

pkgman is right about KMIZ and E-mails. I did get one response out of the them a few days after they killed the HD, but since then nada. I think they are operating on Lake of the Ozarks time..."a couple of days" means at least two weeks..."back up in 30 to 60 days" means 3 months min, most likely 6.


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post #15 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 01:22 PM
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Brian

I had the same luck with KMIZ. I emailed then a couple of weeks back and have yet to hear from them. I was thinking along the line of what you were thinking about the 4248. I have seen nothing but good reviews about the 4228.

alsat

Already took the Radio Shack stuff back. You're right. Overpriced for what I received. And I think I'll take you up on that call tonight. Thanks.
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post #16 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 04:04 PM
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alsat

What type of tower are you using? height? cost?

I live in Columbia and I am able to get our signals fine. Buit I would like to try to get either KC or STL signals for variety in programming. I am not that big of Tiger fan and we get pre-empted on fairly regular basis.

alsat or mec6762 or anybody else. Are you on the Columbia side of respective towns or closer to KC/STL sides. I would like an idea how close to Columbia somebody can get KC/STL signals.
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post #17 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 04:21 PM
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mec6762

I will be in the shop off and on now through about 10 this evening. If I do not answer on 2031, then try 2476. I am working in the shop and may not hear the phone. If not, leave a call back number, and I will phone you right back.

pkgman

mec6762 and I are in Montgomery City, which is about 50 east of you, about 6 miles North of I-70. I have a 45 ft tower, and a rotor. I pick up STL great of an evening, but during the day, the weaker signals are sporadic. I have also picked up Hannibal/Quincy, Cape Girareadu (sp?) and Springfield, MO.

I'm afraid that STL or KC may be a bit far, unless you go at least 45-55 ft, and are on high ground.

Alan
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post #18 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 04:35 PM
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pkgman

Montgomery is slightly closer to the Columbia signals as opposed to the signals coming out of St. Louis. For example, it's about 40 miles from Montgomery to the KOMU tower compared to 70 miles to the KSDK tower. However, quite a few people around here do pick up the St Louis stations, depending on what type of antenna they have.
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post #19 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 06:23 PM
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Alsat,


Quote:


We sell and install both Channel Master and Winegard antennas. Yes, I have a preamp on my Channel Master. It is a Winegard AP8275.

I had not read your post when I made my comment to mec6762 about the purchasing/installation of his antenna. I came off sounding anti-local biz which could not be further off base. ( I have retail & service businesses myself ).

I hope no offense was taken and I'm glad he has someone local there he can work with.

Good luck to both of you with the project.

BV
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post #20 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 06:36 PM
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NO offence taken. I knew what you meant. There are some outfits that really do get carried away with their pricing. We do all referral work and do not advertise, so my pricing must be okay! ;-)
Thanks!

Alan
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post #21 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 07:26 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pkgman
No Fox in HD is the pits. But it seems that KMIZ wants to do everything on the cheap. They just want to pack NBC, Fox, UPN and weather channel into their spectrum.

This really has nothing to do with money.

From looking at a listing of channels in the Columbia/Jefferson City market, it appears KMIZ only owns ONE full-power analog signal, KMIZ/17, and KMIZ-DT 22. The Fox affiliate and the UPN affiliate are both low-power stations. I don't know how NBC got into this, as that network's affiliate (KOMU/8) is owned separately.

So, KMIZ has one digital signal, KMIZ-DT, and there's only so much you can fit onto it. You can NOT fit two HD signals on one DT channel. It just can't be done. There's not enough bandwidth. KMIZ can only put the ABC HD signal on DT 22...there's no room to fit the HD signal of the Fox affiliate or the UPN affiliate. Since ABC runs 720p, they could likely fit ABC HD, and SD versions of both Fox and UPN. But even if the latter two went away, there's no way they could add a second HD signal for either Fox or UPN. It just can't be done.

And if KMIZ's owners had a few million bucks lying around and were just itching to provide a HD Fox signal to the market, the only way they could do it would be with a SECOND full-power station, which the current Fox and UPN OTA channels are not. The process to eventually convert LPTVers to digital has just begun as far as guidelines are concerned, and that probably won't actually happen for many years.

The only other possible way, which is likely not going to happen in a market the size of Columbia/Jefferson City, would be if KMIZ fed an HD Fox KQFX feed to cable systems in the market. Then, they'd have to likely spend millions on upgrades for a signal that couldn't be put over the air to a more limited audience.
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post #22 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 08:01 PM
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KQFX went from low power channel 2 to UHF channel 38 about 3 months ago. I do not know what the transmitting power is, but it is not low power, as I can receive off air about 50 miles away. Of course, they still broadcast the digital signal on DT 22-2. If my memory serves, during the baseball playoffs, they broadcast the FOX feed of the game in HD, and the ABC feed in SD, but I may be mistaken.

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post #23 of 1167 Old 11-28-2004, 10:31 PM
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According to the FCC's Web site, 38 is still an LPTVer. A fairly powerful one, but still not a full-power license:

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?list=0&facid=55253

----------

K38II MO JEFFERSON CITY USA

Licensee: JW BROADCASTING LLC
Service Designation: TX Low Power television station (LPTV)

Channel: 38 614 - 620 MHz Licensed

----------

The "K38II" calls are indicative of an LPTV station (any calls with the number in the middle, or ending in -LP or -CA, are).

This map would indicate that it puts a pretty decent signal over both Jefferson City and Columbia:



But even at 150KW, it's a LPTV station, and as such, cannot convert to digital for some time.
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post #24 of 1167 Old 11-29-2004, 10:04 AM
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Thanks for the info. It is surprising that we can receive this station in Montgomery City. It is located 25 miles east of Kingdom City, which is at the Eastern limit of your map. I stand corrected. ;-)

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post #25 of 1167 Old 11-29-2004, 09:50 PM
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The map is not the signal limit of the station...it's basically the "city grade" signal, which would presumably mean that if you have a decent antenna inside the blue circle, you should get a mostly interference free signal. There's more than enough opportunity to get even a 150KW LPTVer that far out, though you'd have to have a decent antenna...

Consider the map above "the main strong service area".

And anyway, my whole point was that as an LPTV-class signal, 38 can't go digital for a good while now, and thus, can't deliver HD. It was probably a smart thing of them to put the Fox baseball playoffs on their ABC DT signal... but as mentioned, you can't squeeze two HD signals on one DT channel, so they had to forego ABC's HD offerings those nights.

I'd assume they'll do the same for the Super Bowl, and probably should consider doing the same even on regular season NFL Sundays, if they're not doing so already...since ABC does not offer anything in HD during Sunday afternoon as far as I know.
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post #26 of 1167 Old 11-30-2004, 10:15 PM
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I made a typo when I was typing in the stations earlier. I went back and edited not to confuse anybody.

Inundated - I watched the World Series on 17.2 which was an upconvert of the SD offering. I believe, could be wrong. They never advertised that were broadcasting it in HD.

If they broadcast the Super Bowl in HD on ABC DT signal, I will be happy. Also, as far as I know they do not broadcast Fox HD football games on ABC DT either. Will check this weekend though
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post #27 of 1167 Old 11-30-2004, 10:32 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by pkgman
Inundated - I watched the World Series on 17.2 which was an upconvert of the SD offering. I believe, could be wrong. They never advertised that were broadcasting it in HD.

OK, I'm nowhere near the market...I apparently misread...I thought someone earlier in this thread had said they were doing Fox HD World Series on the ABC subchannel.

I actually wonder if the network (ABC) would let them do that...assuming they even had the proper Fox HD equipment...which they likely would not because they don't have a full-power Fox channel. ABC and Fox both do 720p, but there is more equipment involved. And I don't know if ABC would like the idea of their local HD affiliate running a Fox show instead...even something as big as the WS.
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post #28 of 1167 Old 12-04-2004, 09:20 AM
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I hear Mediacom currently has ABC in HD. Do they have any other major networks available? Does anyone know when they might become available?
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post #29 of 1167 Old 12-07-2004, 07:44 PM
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Just wanted to point out tidbit about new analog transmiiter being reconfigurable for digital in future.

KMIZ to replace aging transmitter

After months of signal problems, the local ABC affiliate is installing a new analog transmitter it says will provide more reliable service for Mid-Missouri viewers.

Randy Wright, general manager of KMIZ-TV/KQFX-TV, said the 30-ton, water-cooled transmitter will replace the aging one that had fallen into disrepair at the company's tower site in northern Moniteau County.

The replacement will cost in excess of $500,000 but is worth the investment, Wright said, because the new transmitter can be reconfigured for a digital signal in the future.

Viewers with cable, satellite or digital service have not experienced problems with Channel 17, and the signal for the company's Fox affiliate, KQFX-TV on Channel 38, has not been affected because it has a separate analog transmitter.

Wright expects the new signal to go live as early as mid-January. Viewers can keep updated through the project Web site, www.projectclearsignal.com.
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post #30 of 1167 Old 12-12-2004, 07:03 PM
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http://www.projectclearsignal.com/

Here is an interesting new development. I have read it through a few times and I'm not quite sure what this means for the return of the digital signal & HDTV. Maybe some of you guys can interrupt this for me......

BV

Sorry, I missed a whole page of the thread before I foolishly posted this...but I do still need some more clarification....

"......equipment enhancement will greatly minimize the likelihood of broadcast interruption with its internal redundancy design and will provide a superior analog picture to the thousands of central Missourians watching KMIZ over the air on channel 17.

In conjunction with the installation, the station's transmission facility in Prairie Home will be completely redesigned to further solidify the facility as state of the art in the broadcast industry. JW's mid-Missouri stations have received national recognition for the innovative multicast of four stations, enabling viewers and cable systems to pick up all four channels with a single digital receiver."

With no mention of HD, only digital, do we have any light at the end of the tunnel for the return of our HD signal?
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