CANADA: Toronto, ON - HDTV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 1166 Old 11-02-2004, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a list of the OTA HD channels currently (11/05) available in the Toronto area, thanks to AVS member intrac.

14-1 (29) Fox WUTV 29 Buffalo

15-1 (45) SUN TV CKXT Hamilton

20-1 (5) CBC CBLT 5 Toronto

24-1 (25) CBC (F) CBLFT 25 Toronto

32-1 (23) UPN WNLO 23 Buffalo

33-1 (2) NBC WGRZ 2 Buffalo

38-1 (7) ABC WKBW 7 Buffalo

39-1 (4) CBS WIVB 4 Buffalo

40-1 (9) CTV CFTO 9 Toronto

43-1 (17) PBS WNED Grand Island / Buffalo

53-1 (57) CityTV CITY Toronto

66-1 (52) SUN TV CKXT Toronto


Also, here's another list with a broader scope from AVS Member Daniel Tonks:

http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/







Original Post:
Anyone have any info or advice for Toronto area OTA reception?
I just bought a HDTV and plugged in a Radio Shack antenna.
I get CITY-TV HD, CKXT HD, WNED-HD and WIVB HD (CBS feed).
Have a DB8 antenna on order.
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post #2 of 1166 Old 11-02-2004, 05:02 PM
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You may want to head on over to the Buffalo thread. Most people from the GTA post in that thread.

Myself, I use an Indoor antenna and I can get the 2 Toronto stations and all Buffalo stations except WNYO (too low power).

Although no specific dates are known, most Toronto OTA transmitters should be coming online in 2005. CBC had planned to be up and running in November, but I heard it may be delayed until Jan. 2005. CTV and Global also mentioned 2005 for the GTA.
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post #3 of 1166 Old 11-15-2004, 03:02 AM
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View full report


Digital Television Stations (including Special Temporary Authority)
STATION.NETWORK...CHANNEL.DIRECTION.DISTANCE.........ERP.... ..HAAT.CITY/LICENSEE
CKXT-TV............UHF.15..210.2°...35.69mi......75.00kW.....984 ft.(HAMILTON, ON)
CHCH-TV............UHF.18..202.5°...35.78mi.....550.00kW.....984 ft.(HAMILTON, ON)
CHCH-DT............UHF.18..202.5°...35.78mi......60.00kW...1,109 ft.(HAMILTON, ON)
CBLT-TV............UHF.20...19.6°....0.00mi......75.00kW.....984 ft.(TORONTO, ON)
NEW-DT.............UHF.21..202.5°...35.78mi......75.00kW.....98 4ft.(HAMILTON, ON)
NEW-DT.............UHF.22..157.6°...33.59mi......75.00kW.....98 4ft.(ST CATHARINES, ON)
CBLFT-TV...........UHF.24..-10.5°....0.48mi......75.00kW.....984ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CITS-DT............UHF.35..202.5°...35.78mi......10.00kW...1,110 ft.(HAMILTON, ON)
CFTO-TV............UHF.40...19.6°....0.00mi.....550.00kW.....984 ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CHEX-TV-...........UHF.48...42.7°...36.09mi.......0.20kW.....328ft.(OSHAWA, ON)
NEW-DT.............UHF.51..-10.5°....0.48mi......75.00kW.....984ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CICA-TV............UHF.51...19.6°....0.00mi......75.00kW.....984 ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CITY-DT............UHF.53...19.6°....0.00mi.......0.90kW...1,690 ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CBLT...............UHF.64...19.6°....0.00mi...1,000.00kW... 1,066ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CIII-TV-...........UHF.65...19.6°....0.00mi......75.00kW.....984ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CJIS-TV............UHF.66...30.5°....0.64mi......75.00kW.....984 ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CKXT-TV............UHF.66...19.6°....0.00mi.......2.81kW...1,690 ft.(TORONTO, ON)
CFMT-TV............UHF.69...19.6°....0.00mi......75.00kW.....984 ft.(TORONTO, ON)

Data compiled from FCC database on 9/26/2005.

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post #4 of 1166 Old 11-15-2004, 04:27 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jeneral
You may want to head on over to the Buffalo thread. Most people from the GTA post in that thread.

I see from your info you are from Mississauga. Did you know that Mississauga is home to one of the transmitter manufactures (Larcan) and tower manufactures (Radian Tower) that is supplying many of the DTV transmitters and towers to not only Canada, but the USA as well?

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post #5 of 1166 Old 11-15-2004, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I just put up my DB8 and now receive FOX, CBS, ABC, NBC, CITY-TV, Toronto-1 and PBS here in Mississauga, Ontario.

Anyone in Southern Ontario receiving anything additional, OTA?
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post #6 of 1166 Old 11-15-2004, 06:48 PM
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3mar67,

What kind of an antenna is a DB8? How high is it mounted?

What kind of reception are you getting? I assume with it being digital, you don't experience fades or snow.

This direct OTA is a good way to beat the SIMSUBBING that takes place on cable and Cdn satellites.

I'm in Thornhill.
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post #7 of 1166 Old 11-16-2004, 06:57 AM
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Come one come all, see the incredible DB8 here!

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post #8 of 1166 Old 11-16-2004, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
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intrac,
my DB8 is mounted on the side of my chimney, a few feet above my roofline.
I just kept turning the antenna a few inches at a time until I got WKBW 7.1 -- the most difficult for me to pick up.
Now I receive all my locals with no problem, no fading and no need to adjust the direction of the antenna.
Here's what I get so far:
4.1 -- WIVB CBS
7.1 -- WKBW ABC
23.1 -- UPN CBS
29.1 -- FOX
33.1 -- WGRZ NBC
43.1 -- WNED PBS
53.1 -- CITY-HD
66.1 -- CKXT Toronto-1
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post #9 of 1166 Old 11-16-2004, 11:02 AM
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Hey guys,

Good info.

Looks like this is the way to go to beat the cable & satellite crap for locals.

Are you able to get CFTO which supposedly broadcasts in HDTV, or is it off at right angles to your antenna?
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post #10 of 1166 Old 11-17-2004, 06:03 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by intrac

Are you able to get CFTO which supposedly broadcasts in HDTV, or is it off at right angles to your antenna?

I believe the next round of DT stations going live is in January 2005. So far CTV only broadcast in HD on the digicable network.

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post #11 of 1166 Old 11-25-2004, 05:07 PM
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Anybody know where to buy the Channel Master 4228 in Toronto?

I think it compares favorably to the DB8 and the price in USD looks a lot less.
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post #12 of 1166 Old 11-25-2004, 06:17 PM
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A MacDonald Antenna Tower Service 1394 Dufferin St Toronto
Alpine Installation Service Ltd 1345 Morningside Ave Scarborough
Hosick Television Co 1844 Jane St York
Ron's Television Service 1360 Queen St E Toronto
Sal's TV & Radio Sales & Service 6525 Kingston Rd Scarborough
Student Antenna Removal 40 Stonegate Rd Etobicoke
Y2K Satellite Solutions 1394 Dufferin St Toronto

Good place to start.

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post #13 of 1166 Old 11-26-2004, 06:34 AM
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daredevil23

Thank you.
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post #14 of 1166 Old 11-28-2004, 10:58 AM
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It was nice to see Citytv showing some HD Enterprise. I finally got to see some after I downloaded an episode of Enterprise. Now if only they would boost output power, please oh please.

Anyone know if Toronto1 will be doing real 16:9 HD anytime soon? I have no trouble receiving them at 69 km (43 miles) away.

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post #15 of 1166 Old 12-02-2004, 09:45 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by foxeng
I see from your info you are from Mississauga. Did you know that Mississauga is home to one of the transmitter manufactures (Larcan) and tower manufactures (Radian Tower) that is supplying many of the DTV transmitters and towers to not only Canada, but the USA as well?

Also, this is the most popular manufacture of translators here in the SW. Most sites are dominantly Larcan. We have been buying all our replacement translators from Larcan during our channel relocation the last 4 years. Moving to in-core channels, 2 through 52. Getting rid of the last of the tube translators out there. They make solid equipment that just works and works. Good reputation.
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post #16 of 1166 Old 12-05-2004, 05:45 PM
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Hi 3mar67:
I am in Richmond Hill and another 25 miles further away from the US stations. I wonder how many US HD channels can I pick up!


Alex
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post #17 of 1166 Old 12-05-2004, 10:28 PM
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There is always the Channel Master TITAN 2 Pre-Amplifiers see link -



http://www.solidsignal.com/tech_help_CM777X.asp
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post #18 of 1166 Old 12-06-2004, 07:03 AM
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My own suggestion is to try the antenna first (a high gain like the CM4228) before trying the pre-amp. The pre-amp can always be added. There is always the possibility of too great a signal - and causing overload. I'm in Thornhill, not far from Richmond Hill. But then it also depends where in Richmond Hill -- high or low spot. It' a case of the more the better, up to a point.

The CM4228 provides a reasonable pattern, with about 12dB UHF gain. A pre-amp, like the 7775, will add another 23 dB. Remember, there is loss in the cable, loss in the connectors (about 2-3 dB total).

If you have diplexors or splitters, another 3-5 dB loss.

Just my 2 cents worth.
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post #19 of 1166 Old 12-06-2004, 08:48 PM
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intrac
Ok, I am glad there are somebody close to my area. I am assuming you are using CM4228. How high and what direction are you pointing it at. What stations do you get and what HD tuner are you using? Hope is not too many to ask in one time! Thanks in advance!


Alex
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post #20 of 1166 Old 12-07-2004, 07:04 AM
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I'm in process of doing this now. Today's snow has delayed my work. I've done path studies (my old work) and it looks like I should be able to get all the Buffalo channels which are on this map:
http://www.remotecentral.com/hdtv/index.html

The U.S. sites that do antenna calculations don't apply to Canada. You can't enter your postal codes, etc. However, it is easy if you can figure out your latitude and longitude. The lats and longs of the stations are all readily available.

Then plug in the numbers into another site (let me know if you want this), and you get the distance and bearing. The long range UHF antennas are good for 60+ miles. The pattern of the CM4228 makes it look like it will cover all Buffalo and pick up the Toronto OTA channels. The other options are yagis with rotators. Yagis are more directional, and need to be aimed.

This stuff is like going back 20 years (before cable and satellite). Only digital is better than analog. With analog, you had to put up with snowy reception. Digital is either there or not.
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post #21 of 1166 Old 12-07-2004, 07:08 AM
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Preamps work best for distant stations, whereas for near stations they can pose a problem of signal overload. I installed the Channel Master Spartan 3 preamp on my antenna and I also added a Radio Shack variable attenuator to deal with the large signal loads for the nearest transmitters.

Here are the various items that can add signal loss:

Balun
Preamp (added noise to boosted signal)
Coaxial cable (lots of dB loss at higher frequencies)
Splitters

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post #22 of 1166 Old 12-07-2004, 07:29 AM
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Before you guys run out and start buying preamps that live NW of the CN tower, when the DTV stations start fireing up, you will probably have a problem with overload since it (CN tower) will be in line with the US stations!

I know, I have a MAJOR problem with the 3 on that 'foreign country' of Grand Island interfering with 19, 41 & 47! BTW, that's why WNED erected their antenna where it is now, so we can't receive ch 19! No pledge $$ for Canada!

Abundant OTA television is what makes this country different from all others. Lets keep it this way.
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post #23 of 1166 Old 12-07-2004, 09:08 AM
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One question in regard to picture quality. I find the HD pic . quality from ExpressVu HD is not very good, due to excessive video compression. I wonder how OTA HD looks like? I am comparing Dishnetwork to ExpressVu . Thanks in advance!



Alex
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post #24 of 1166 Old 12-07-2004, 05:37 PM
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Glad I found you folks. Been hanging out in the Buffalo thread. Where did you get your OTA receivers? I may have to make a run to Buffalo or turn to Ebay - but I'm hoping that someone knows of a Canadian dealer/supplier with a storefront..

Can you help out a fellow Canadian OTA-HD'R ??

Thanks

(BTW - I'm in Mississauga)
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post #25 of 1166 Old 12-07-2004, 07:18 PM
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The only place I've seen any OTA receivers is from Samsung, but not in Canada.
Using any Dishnet 6000 or 811 (or ExpressVu series 6000) receiver, you can add the QPSK module for OTA. Or, get an HDTV that includes an ATSC tuner, like the SANYO at WalMart, or the next releases of SONY WEGAs.

OTA HD looks excellent -- no compression, and no sim-subbing.
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post #26 of 1166 Old 12-08-2004, 02:33 AM
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Anybody has any luck with a good indoor antenna? Besides the two local channels, any other channels?


Alex
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post #27 of 1166 Old 12-08-2004, 05:52 AM
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An indoor antenna will probably only get you the Toronto locals. Take a look at the earlier Toronto threads here or on the Buffalo threads as to what's available. The SilverSensor or a Radio Shack bow tie are probably OK for local indoor use.
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post #28 of 1166 Old 12-08-2004, 04:58 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by intrac
An indoor antenna will probably only get you the Toronto locals.

Well, I'm in Mississauga at Britannia and Winston Churchill and using a Radio Shack 15-1880 indoor antenna I receive all the Buffalo and Toronto stations except WNYO-DT. Granted, the area is newer so not many trees around. Still, the antenna is sitting on the floor in the second storey of my house, pointed at the wall.

Using the same antenna, I can barely register the Buffalo analog channels (23 and 29 are the only ones I can get in good quality without major tweaking). 2 doesn't appear at all, 4 & 7 are more noise than picture. 49 takes a lot of adjustment to get a crappy picture. The point of this paragraph is, even though I can't receive the Buffalo analog channels, I can receive the Buffalo digitals almost perfectly with a crappy indoor antenna. (oops, time to go watch Lost on WKBW-DT!! Hope to they remember to flip the HD switch!)

P.S. I'm using a Samsung SIRT-151.
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post #29 of 1166 Old 12-08-2004, 05:36 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jeneral
Well, I'm in Mississauga at Britannia and Winston Churchill and using a Radio Shack 15-1880 indoor antenna I receive all the Buffalo and Toronto stations except WNYO-DT. Granted, the area is newer so not many trees around. Still, the antenna is sitting on the floor in the second storey of my house, pointed at the wall.

Using the same antenna, I can barely register the Buffalo analog channels (23 and 29 are the only ones I can get in good quality without major tweaking). 2 doesn't appear at all, 4 & 7 are more noise than picture. 49 takes a lot of adjustment to get a crappy picture. The point of this paragraph is, even though I can't receive the Buffalo analog channels, I can receive the Buffalo digitals almost perfectly with a crappy indoor antenna. (oops, time to go watch Lost on WKBW-DT!! Hope to they remember to flip the HD switch!)

P.S. I'm using a Samsung SIRT-151.


I've had some experiences I wish to share with this same Radio Shack (indoor) antenna. In Burlington (Upper Middle and Burloak), this antenna picks up all of the Buffalo HD channels without problem. SD is also quite clear. It is mounted inside on a shelf unit on the 2nd storey.

However, trying this same antenna in Ancaster (403/Golf Links), I get no signal from any of the Buffalo networks (regardless of where I put it). SD is very blurry as well. I have been researching to try and find my best solution, but so far obtaining information for my specific area has been troublesome at best. Most places that sell the bigger antenna apllications know very little about HD and they all want to erect a 40 foot mast with a 15' VHF/UHF antenna on it and pre-amps. I am sorry, but I can't justify spending $1000+ to receive a few HD channels OTA. If anyone has any suggestions for me, I'm all ears. I'm leaning towards trying out the Channel Master 4228 and 4248 next, but until I can find someone that has them in stock, I'll be resorting to other smaller antennas to try.
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post #30 of 1166 Old 12-08-2004, 05:55 PM
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Copter, have you tried reaching any of the possible dealers on page 1 of this thread?
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