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post #571 of 621 Old 11-11-2010, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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A tip of the AVS hat to firemantom26 for 6 years of participation at AVS. Many thanks for your many contributions.

You are welcome. Thank you.

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post #572 of 621 Old 11-12-2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gib4500 View Post

Over at dbstalk they are reporting that wheeling wv hd locals for directv are now uplinked and in testing.

As I just commented over at DBSTalk, I find it odd that WTRF's CBS feed isn't listed. Not sure if this means that we'll just get ABC, Fox, and NBC for now or if CBS will be there as well.
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post #573 of 621 Old 11-24-2010, 08:34 PM
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I just noticed a brief announcement on the WTOV website entitled "WTOV9 Now Part Of Directv".

http://www.wtov9.com/news/25908656/d...111242010&ts=H

Details were sparse but maybe there was more on the news broadcasts. The statement that calling Directv was necessary for service seems unusual.

Wikipedia now states in it's WTRF entry: "WTRF, including its FOX and ABC subchannels, and WTOV are available on DirecTV as of November 23, 2010."

Directv.com now states that the following Wheeling-Steubenville locals are available:

ABC ABC 6
FOX FOX/MNT 8
CBS WTRF 7
CW WBNX 55
NBC WTOV 9
PBS WOUC 44

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packPr...uestid=2772396

WBNX (CW) is a Cleveland DMA station.

ABC and Fox are not designated as HD so apparently they're carrying WTRF's poor quality SD subchannels for those networks?
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post #574 of 621 Old 11-24-2010, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure why wbnx would be added.

Tom
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post #575 of 621 Old 11-24-2010, 11:09 PM
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Do you have a CW affiliate? If not, WBNX.

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post #576 of 621 Old 11-25-2010, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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WPCW Channel 19 Pittsburgh.

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post #577 of 621 Old 11-28-2010, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

I just noticed a brief announcement on the WTOV website entitled "WTOV9 Now Part Of Directv".

http://www.wtov9.com/news/25908656/d...111242010&ts=H

Details were sparse but maybe there was more on the news broadcasts. The statement that calling Directv was necessary for service seems unusual.

Wikipedia now states in it's WTRF entry: "WTRF, including its FOX and ABC subchannels, and WTOV are available on DirecTV as of November 23, 2010."

Directv.com now states that the following Wheeling-Steubenville locals are available:

ABC ABC 6
FOX FOX/MNT 8
CBS WTRF 7
CW WBNX 55
NBC WTOV 9
PBS WOUC 44

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packPr...uestid=2772396

WBNX (CW) is a Cleveland DMA station.

ABC and Fox are not designated as HD so apparently they're carrying WTRF's poor quality SD subchannels for those networks?


I was in the Wheeling/Steubenville area during the recent holiday and verified that Directv is indeed using the crappy ch 7 SD subchannels to supply ABC and Fox. Some of my relatives there with Directv are really unhappy as they have now lost two HD sources they had when they were allowed to have the DNS channels from New York City. (The latter get shut off when one begins receiving the new local package.) The situation is even made worse by the fact that the CBS on 7.1 is sub-standard HD with a lot of bit-starving, artifacts etc. going on. I think their remedy is going to have to be utilization of the OTA signals from Pittsburgh via antenna. It's too bad that Directv didn't turn on the Pittsburgh channels for the W/S area.....most of them are "significantly viewed" in that area anyway. It's also seems odd that they included a Cleveland CW affiliate in the package rather than the one in Pittsburgh which is a closer city.

Sorry if this has been off topic....
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post #578 of 621 Old 11-28-2010, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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I have Comcast and we get the the CBS FOX and ABC hd feeds for WTRF

Tom
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post #579 of 621 Old 11-29-2010, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by firemantom26 View Post

I have Comcast and we get the the CBS FOX and ABC hd feeds for WTRF

I think I had either read or heard about that previously. I can't understand why Directv is doing what it is unless the SD feeds are temporary for some reason and the HD will come later. If it's a permanent thing, they should be ashamed of themselves. Also, it certainly wouldn't help in their competition with Comcast. I wonder if the engineer at WTRF would tell us anything if he were called? Getting any information from Directv is "like pulling teeth", as they say.
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post #580 of 621 Old 11-29-2010, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think WTRF cares or has the money to fix how bad the OTA channels look.

Tom
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post #581 of 621 Old 11-30-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemantom26 View Post

I don't think WTRF cares or has the money to fix how bad the OTA channels look.

The main reason WTRF looks so bad OTA is the fact that they are attempting to squeeze too much (1 HD channel and 2 SD channels) into their allowed OTA bandwidth. More money wouldn't/couldn't do much to remedy that situation.

I was just wondering why they are not uplinking HD feeds for all their carried channels to Directv as they apparently are currently doing to Comcast. Directv seems to be just picking them up OTA for the uplink.
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post #582 of 621 Old 11-30-2010, 11:57 AM
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I have the locals package wheeling wv now on directv as well. However i was luckily able to keep dns nyc for now. I can say i have watched some of wtrf cbc and wtov nbc 9hd. To me i can't tell the picture quality difference between the hd distant locals and the locals when they are showing hd content. With that said i find it rediculous they don't have the wtrf abc and fox in hd when in fact comcast has them in hd!!! I have heard they may move them to hd sometime on directv but i have no idea when. Does anyone have any more info on this. Thanks.
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post #583 of 621 Old 11-30-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Gib4500 View Post

I have the locals package wheeling wv now on directv as well. However i was luckily able to keep dns nyc for now. I can say i have watched some of wtrf cbc and wtov nbc 9hd. To me i can't tell the picture quality difference between the hd distant locals and the locals when they are showing hd content. With that said i find it rediculous they don't have the wtrf abc and fox in hd when in fact comcast has them in hd!!! I have heard they may move them to hd sometime on directv but i have no idea when. Does anyone have any more info on this. Thanks.


I've sent an email to the engineer at WTRF asking this very question. I will keep you guys informed of his response.
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post #584 of 621 Old 12-02-2010, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Raptoryfm350 View Post

I've sent an email to the engineer at WTRF asking this very question. I will keep you guys informed of his response.

I have done the same. Let's see what kind of response we get.
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post #585 of 621 Old 12-02-2010, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by rluyster View Post

I was just wondering why they are not uplinking HD feeds for all their carried channels to Directv as they apparently are currently doing to Comcast. Directv seems to be just picking them up OTA for the uplink.

My guess is that Comcast paid for their HD feeds from WTRF.
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post #586 of 621 Old 12-02-2010, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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That's probably true.

Tom
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post #587 of 621 Old 12-22-2010, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Raptoryfm350 View Post

I've sent an email to the engineer at WTRF asking this very question. I will keep you guys informed of his response.

I have yet to receive any kind of response from the WTRF engineer. Is the same true for you?
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post #588 of 621 Old 01-05-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptoryfm350
I've sent an email to the engineer at WTRF asking this very question. I will keep you guys informed of his response.

I have yet to receive any kind of response from the WTRF engineer. Is the same true for you?
Same is true here. I even resent my email a second time.
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post #589 of 621 Old 01-07-2011, 10:21 PM
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I wish they would have allowed to pittsburgh locals as SV locals. WTRF can't even be received over the air here in the weirton/steubenville area. That's a shame they degraded their signal so much since the digital transition that we can't receive it here. Heck alot of the time we get youngstown stations and we can't get wtrf.
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post #590 of 621 Old 01-08-2011, 02:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mikedz5 View Post

I wish they would have allowed to pittsburgh locals as SV locals. WTRF can't even be received over the air here in the weirton/steubenville area. That's a shame they degraded their signal so much since the digital transition that we can't receive it here. Heck alot of the time we get youngstown stations and we can't get wtrf.

It seems like every station in every market that stayed on VHF has coverage problems. They should of stayed on ch 32

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post #591 of 621 Old 01-08-2011, 07:24 AM
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There are a select few that are doing well on VHF, but the vast majority had significant issues. I have, as of yet, been completely unable to explain the discrepancy and why some stations are doing fine while others are complete duds.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

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post #592 of 621 Old 01-08-2011, 10:13 AM
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I think reception of high band VHF signals depends more on where you are relative to the transmitter and your antenna setup. I'm 60 miles from WTRF's transmitter and receive it 24/7/365 with no problems at all. I use a Winegard YA-1713 antenna along with a Channel Master 7777 preamplifier.
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post #593 of 621 Old 01-08-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedz5 View Post

I wish they would have allowed to pittsburgh locals as SV locals. WTRF can't even be received over the air here in the weirton/steubenville area. That's a shame they degraded their signal so much since the digital transition that we can't receive it here. Heck alot of the time we get youngstown stations and we can't get wtrf.

A majority of the Pittsburgh stations are considered significantly viewed in the Weirton / Steubenville area but WTRF and WTOV can still enforce network non-duplication and syndicated exclusivity unless you receive the Pittsburgh stations with an antenna.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

There are a select few that are doing well on VHF, but the vast majority had significant issues. I have, as of yet, been completely unable to explain the discrepancy and why some stations are doing fine while others are complete duds.

- Trip

With a maximum of 30 kW ERP here in Zone 1, VHF is absolute crap for indoor reception and not everyone has an appropriate exclusive use area for a big antenna outside. With our hilly terrain VHF may work well for some with an outdoor VHF antenna.
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post #594 of 621 Old 01-08-2011, 01:07 PM
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When you look at the coverage map of broadcast stations, those are calculated by a single dipole in free space at 30 feet above ground level, so if you are at the fringe of a TV station, that is what you would need to do to pick it up. That doesn't mean you won't need to compensate for long cable runs and other losses through splitters, trees, hills and such. It is a complicated mess. They did not think about that when they came up with the current power levels I don't believe. All they were concerned about was replicating on paper what the analog signal looked like. (Trip you might could have stated that in the report you filed) Too bad I didn't see it in time.
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post #595 of 621 Old 01-08-2011, 04:08 PM
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I wish direct would give us the fox and abc in hd like comcast has. I currently have to get the distant networks in hd from new york because of this. Also i thought i read where dns on directv are going up as well so just to get those 2 stations in hd each month it will cost about 7 bucks extra on my bill when in reality in other areas there included in your package. Does anyone have anymore update on the wheeling abc fox hd or are we going to get the pooch again cause we don't have comcast and we live somewhat rural areas? Thanks for any updates on this.
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post #596 of 621 Old 01-10-2011, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Sammer View Post

A majority of the Pittsburgh stations are considered significantly viewed in the Weirton / Steubenville area but WTRF and WTOV can still enforce network non-duplication and syndicated exclusivity unless you receive the Pittsburgh stations with an antenna.

With a maximum of 30 kW ERP here in Zone 1, VHF is absolute crap for indoor reception and not everyone has an appropriate exclusive use area for a big antenna outside. With our hilly terrain VHF may work well for some with an outdoor VHF antenna.

With a indoor antenna WTRF is hit and miss. With my outside antenna they are rock solid.

Tom
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post #597 of 621 Old 01-10-2011, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

There are a select few that are doing well on VHF, but the vast majority had significant issues. I have, as of yet, been completely unable to explain the discrepancy and why some stations are doing fine while others are complete duds.

- Trip

Trip
Most VHF stations have coverage problems in the Ohio valley.

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post #598 of 621 Old 01-11-2011, 07:39 AM
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Is UHF inherently any better, or is it a matter of a lack of power on VHF? During my childhood in Chester, we had a lot of trouble getting anything. Even there, the inherently lumpy terrain broke up both bands, but VHF was a bit better than UHF. Being up on a hill in Weirton was much better!
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post #599 of 621 Old 01-11-2011, 10:19 AM
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I only know of two VHF stations in that whole region, WTOV and WTRF; are there more than those? VHF DTV has been a bust for me. I use to get analog WTOV 24/7 with at least a semi decent watchable signal. Since WTOV has gone digital, I rarely receive them anymore except during band openings. It was a huge disappointment for me because I wanted to have a RTV station to watch. I occasionally have reception problems with the Cleveland VHF stations, which are only 30 miles away. For some reason I can usually get WTOV when the weather is crummy (e.g. raining), and I haven't figured out why that's the case yet.
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post #600 of 621 Old 01-19-2011, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Loudin View Post

Is UHF inherently any better, or is it a matter of a lack of power on VHF? During my childhood in Chester, we had a lot of trouble getting anything. Even there, the inherently lumpy terrain broke up both bands, but VHF was a bit better than UHF. Being up on a hill in Weirton was much better!

VHF tends to bend better over obstacles but UHF is inherently better for digital television because it has much lower noise. However analog TV also had to deal with noisy VHF to an extent but the High VHF channels often had 316 kW peak ERP (probably exceeded 100 kW average ERP) rather than the 30 kW or less average ERP of the digital stations. Many UHF stations were underpowered in the analog days but even the old maximum power 5 Megawatt peak ERP UHF stations didn't match the reach of the current 1 Megawatt digital powerhouses.
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