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Local HDTV Info and Reception

ybsane's Avatar ybsane
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Not all is lost for the Aereo subscibers: https://www.antennasdirect.com/aereo/
csmith's Avatar csmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post
Since I have all of the sd channels ...in multiple markets ..That I am responsible for flagged as 16:9, (without stretching) this prevents some of those you mention from changing the aspect ratio to stretch it out..these are the same ones who would call when true 16:9 programming is on that the graphics are chopped off...
When Rambo came on 46.2, it was in "16:9" letterbox format on the 4:3 channel. However, the credits were being chopped off on what appeared to be both sides. I also see this on some their own Movies! ads (chopping off logo at bottom right). I have yet to watch another movie in 16:9, only 4:3 movies...maybe the switch wasn't flipped that night to show it properly. When GetTV shows a 16:9 movie, it is shown properly.

On my older Sony 46" TV, Me-Tv is squished and only using the wide option does it show in the correct 4:3 format. However on my WMC, Dish 722 and newer 20" Visio tuners, it shows up as 4:3. So it's a good thing to have wide/zoom ability!

I have several zoom/wide options on my tuners/tvs and prefer to zoom the 16:9 format movies on 4:3 channels using the Wide + Vertical Zoom1 option, albeit the crispness of the image suffers.
blackcat6's Avatar blackcat6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post
If you owned a privately held, successful local Tv Station like he and his family do you could do what you wanted too...
Well..... Forgetting the fact they are using the public airwaves and as a result are suppose to be providing a service to the public, then yes, I agree with you. I never said they couldn't do this so I'm not sure way you would make this point.

Are you also saying the public, isn't allowed to give their opinion, when they decide to "do as they want"?
bdfox18doe's Avatar bdfox18doe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
Are you also saying the public, isn't allowed to give their opinion, when they decide to "do as they want"?
Oh absolutely not..we in the biz welcome the public's input. You of all people should know that the issue is in how the feedback is delivered. Tho usually (not always) there is a reason things viewers find odd are done.
bdfox18doe's Avatar bdfox18doe
11:31 AM Liked: 75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith View Post
I have several zoom/wide options on my tuners/tvs and prefer to zoom the 16:9 format movies on 4:3 channels using the Wide + Vertical Zoom1 option, albeit the crispness of the image suffers.
Same here..I have a 26" Vizio I love..beautiful pix, great audio..except..whoever designed this was either uninformed as
to aspect ratios, or a very limited chip set was used. It has NO zoom selection, which prevents doing this. So it has been relegated to the spare bedroom and replaced with a set that has that ability.
rdgcss's Avatar rdgcss
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
Doh! I was just joking about a morphing screen. I was imagining a TV set that ordinarily had a 16:9 ratio, but if you sent it a 4:3 picture, the whole screen (not just the picture) would change shape so that you got a 4:3 full-screen display without any bars and without losing any picture area.

The downside, of course, is that when the TV set starts morphing, that could definitely frighten small children and hypersensitive pets.
Over the years movies have been produced with many different aspect rations. Movies theaters used the curtains to morph the screen (hide the unused portion of the screen) to fit the movie being shown. A morphing tv is really not that wild an idea.
ejb1980's Avatar ejb1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
Indeed. I suppose jokes are the only defense for supporting transmission of a deliberately distorted TV picture. At least I haven't seen a logical argument for it made here. Not by you, nor by the TV technician who apparently made this decision unilaterally for reasons only known to him.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but I assume then you are not a very happy camper since most TV stations get this right. One technique for it has already been described above and it works quite well. There are other ways too.

Furthermore, you are in Raleigh, so I assume you can't even receive the station under discussion, so it's not even an issue for you.
it doesn't matter where someone lives. I don't receive Charlotte OTA either but it's not a market-specific issue. It's clear that displaying a proper image isn't important to broadcasters, which is truly a shame.
ejb1980's Avatar ejb1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post
Same here..I have a 26" Vizio I love..beautiful pix, great audio..except..whoever designed this was either uninformed as
to aspect ratios, or a very limited chip set was used. It has NO zoom selection, which prevents doing this. So it has been relegated to the spare bedroom and replaced with a set that has that ability.
Viewers shouldn't have to fiddle with their TV to watch a program correctly. Why is that such a difficult concept? You would think that the people in charge of this, such as yourself, would want to make it right.
veedon's Avatar veedon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post
Not all is lost for the Aereo subscibers: https://www.antennasdirect.com/aereo/

I dig those network logos. I also am fascinated by the logos, promos, and bumpers that local stations use to emphasize their channel number, call letters, city of license, or network affiliations. I wish, though, that it were more viable for independent stations to exist. There are not many independents left.

tesla_engineer's Avatar tesla_engineer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
WHY WHY WHY isn't it consistent? There's really no excuse for it not to be. If the local broadcasters would just do it right instead of giving attitude about it, there wouldn't be an issue. Directv's CSR's have no idea what you're talking about when you ask them, so it's just as hopeless. People are overcomplicating a simple thing.
First, I do to some point agree with you.

But then I have to talk with the public on the phone, and by email. Then I have to deal with the people paying for spot time. I have to deal with the aftermath of Cable/Sat center cutting for SD. It is not as simple as you think. I wish it was.

There are a lot of things we loose control of after the signal is transmitted. Several of us at one time did a HD, and an SD feed. If you want to check back in this forum that was called "A wasted use of space" by some of the same people that are on here now complaining about how this should be done.

It is not easy, or clear cut as to how to do this. I do use "AFD" to try and force some of the Cable/Sat feeds to work better in SD.

The problem is SD. Complain all you want we can not fix that ourselves. If everyone had a 16x9 display, and all information was sent that way, things would be easier. Also the screen format buttons on all TV would have to go away. When we are doing that let's also do away with ALL controls over picture. (Contrast, Brightness, Color Level, Hue) Let's not forget about some new sets that you can move "Gama" on. (Bad One).

What I am trying to tell you is that it is not simple. I have 4x3, 16x9 and 14x9 to deal with. Also in home theater another Call "2.35" that is a can of worms on it own.

My reply to all of you is there is no clear answer to this problem. There are days I look back on, and enjoy the time when everything was 4x3 NTSC, and the FCC said V and H Blanking would be this number and no less and no more.
This rule is what caused "Pan and Scan" to be used by the networks. Until all 4x3 TV are gone, and all SD feeds on cable and Sat are done away with we are stuck.

I have not even covered what we end up with when a program supplier thinks it a good idea to put 16x9 in a 4x3 frame. (Think about using a 8x10 frame and putting a 5x7 picture in the center) Do not tell me the math does not work on that example, I know. I just gave that as a example. So often I read a reply on this forum that I look at, and say to myself "that is what you took from that"?????WHY?????
Several of you have this problem. Now go take something out of context and have fun with my reply.
veedon's Avatar veedon
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TV sets have become too good, and we've become soft because of it. Gone are the days of snow and ghosts and a vertical hold that wouldn't quite hold. There is hardly even a need for TV repairmen anymore.
ejb1980's Avatar ejb1980
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When SD programming is shown on the "main" channel of most stations, the HD channel, it is usually pillarboxed. Look at "Let's Make a Deal" or reruns of Andy Griffith, for example. SD commercials are usually pillarboxed, too - or even pillar AND letterboxed (is that windowboxing?) When you view those programs on a 4:3 TV, there are weird bars. Why is that ok but not on the -2 or -3 of the SAME station?
tylerSC's Avatar tylerSC
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All this talk about resolution and aspect ratio. Let me say this again. For whatever reason, my favorite TV for OTA reception is the basic Samsung F4500 plasma with 720p resolution. The local HD channels look the best, and the SD channels are better too. A great bargain right now for $399 for the 51 inch, and sadly they say this is the last year for Samsung plasma production. So if you want a nice, affordable TV, I say get this model now. No need to pay a whole lot more for upconverted 1080p and 4K Ultra HD LEDs. This basic model is excellent. And just use the Picture Size button to adjust the aspect ratio to your own preference.
tylerSC's Avatar tylerSC
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They may have changed the aspect ratio on 46.2 Movies channel. The PSIP now says 16:9.
bdfox18doe's Avatar bdfox18doe
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Thought I'd pass along this so you all can see a typical viewer complaint:

"Feedback:
Every morning I watch GMC. No matter what picture size I use, I can not see the edges of your transmission. Please squeeze in the sides. I loose the outer edges of every weather forecast and other news. Squeeze Please!"
realoldman's Avatar realoldman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
All this talk about resolution and aspect ratio. Let me say this again. For whatever reason, my favorite TV for OTA reception is the basic Samsung F4500 plasma with 720p resolution. The local HD channels look the best, and the SD channels are better too. A great bargain right now for $399 for the 51 inch, and sadly they say this is the last year for Samsung plasma production. So if you want a nice, affordable TV, I say get this model now. No need to pay a whole lot more for upconverted 1080p and 4K Ultra HD LEDs. This basic model is excellent. And just use the Picture Size button to adjust the aspect ratio to your own preference.
Who has it for $399??
blackcat6's Avatar blackcat6
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^Samsung announced this past week they are concluding production of plasmas. I think this leaves only LG to make the panels.
blackcat6's Avatar blackcat6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
They may have changed the aspect ratio on 46.2 Movies channel. The PSIP now says 16:9.
They did change it to 16:9 as well as bump up the resolution from that which Capital was using for Antenna TV. That should take care of the chopped off icon. There is still something a bit odd about it. It looks like there should be a 16:9 picture there, but that somewhere in the process, it was cropped down. There is a movie on were 1/3 of the people's face are chopped off.

Well... maybe they are still working it out. Seems like Fox is making a lot of changes to both their CLT stations.

It would be nice if they went 720x480 anamorphic like WCCB is using, but it's a lot better.
veedon's Avatar veedon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post
Thought I'd pass along this so you all can see a typical viewer complaint:

"Feedback:
.... Please squeeze in the sides. .... Squeeze Please!"

I'm guessing that was not Mr. Whipple who made that request.
veedon's Avatar veedon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
^Samsung announced this past week they are concluding production of plasmas. I think this leaves only LG to make the panels.
LG is stopping production in a few months, too. The free market has spoken, and plasma has lost.
bdfox18doe's Avatar bdfox18doe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
LG is stopping production in a few months, too. The free market has spoken, and plasma has lost.
Yes, sadly...by the same people who think MP3's sound just fine and are happy listening to the tin can speakers in their phone..
veedon's Avatar veedon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdfox18doe View Post
Yes, sadly...by the same people who think MP3's sound just fine and are happy listening to the tin can speakers in their phone..
Plasmas were more expensive to manufacture, and, to some extent, consumers were spooked by the stories of image burn-in from the early days of plasma. Plasma sets are also a bit heavier than LCD's, aren't they?
bdfox18doe's Avatar bdfox18doe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
. Plasma sets are also a bit heavier than LCD's, aren't they?
at least my 65" Panny Plasma is... and the 65" panny pro used in WCCB's studio is a bit more heavier..
tylerSC's Avatar tylerSC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedon View Post
Plasmas were more expensive to manufacture, and, to some extent, consumers were spooked by the stories of image burn-in from the early days of plasma. Plasma sets are also a bit heavier than LCD's, aren't they?
The newer 51F4500 plasma is lighter weight and not that heavy as they were before. For $399 it is a great value and has a very nice picture. Plus full menu and calibration controls of the higher models. And for OTA, it provides complete program info, and a good signal meter including SNR. It is too bad the ignorant marketplace prefers overpriced, crappy LEDs. Although some can be nice, but IMO plasma overall is nicer. But to each their own.
SpencerKarter85's Avatar SpencerKarter85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
When SD programming is shown on the "main" channel of most stations, the HD channel, it is usually pillarboxed. Look at "Let's Make a Deal" or reruns of Andy Griffith, for example. SD commercials are usually pillarboxed, too - or even pillar AND letterboxed (is that windowboxing?) When you view those programs on a 4:3 TV, there are weird bars. Why is that ok but not on the -2 or -3 of the SAME station?
BTW, Let's Make a Deal on CBS will be the final network television program ever to convert to HD with new episodes this fall! Also CBS has aired its last new SD programming last May. Which means CBS will be 100% HD like ABC, NBC, FOX, and The CW. It's the end of an era for SD on network TV and a new era for modern television as all the commercial networks will be broadcasting new shows in HD!

It comes on at 10am on WBTV 3, 9am here on WSPA 7, and in some areas 3pm. They do have an option to show it at 9am or 10am or 3pm depending on the CBS affiliate's choice.
ejb1980's Avatar ejb1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerKarter85 View Post
BTW, Let's Make a Deal on CBS will be the final network television program ever to convert to HD with new episodes this fall! Also CBS has aired its last new SD programming last May. Which means CBS will be 100% HD like ABC, NBC, FOX, and The CW. It's the end of an era for SD on network TV and a new era for modern television as all the commercial networks will be broadcasting new shows in HD!

It comes on at 10am on WBTV 3, 9am here on WSPA 7, and in some areas 3pm. They do have an option to show it at 9am or 10am or 3pm depending on the CBS affiliate's choice.
Yeah, I saw that. CBS seems very lenient on their daytime schedules. I have WRAL, WFMY, and WDBJ and each have their own little quirks in the daytime lineup involving Let's Make a Deal, Young and the Restless, and CBS This Morning. I am not usually home to experience it, and I wouldn't watch most of it anyway, but it's still interesting.

NBC seems to let affliates move the Today show around, too, as I have seen inconsistencies with that show in different markets. WSLS and WNCN show Today from 7 to 11 but WXII splits it up.
csmith's Avatar csmith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
They did change it to 16:9 as well as bump up the resolution from that which Capital was using for Antenna TV. That should take care of the chopped off icon. There is still something a bit odd about it. It looks like there should be a 16:9 picture there, but that somewhere in the process, it was cropped down. There is a movie on were 1/3 of the people's face are chopped off.

Well... maybe they are still working it out. Seems like Fox is making a lot of changes to both their CLT stations.

It would be nice if they went 720x480 anamorphic like WCCB is using, but it's a lot better.
Looks like they took the 16:9 letterbox image, chopped off both sides, then zoomed into a 16:9 image. The credits at the end of Ghandi were chopped off on both sides, so they are chopping off too much... maybe they'll get it right eventually.
tylerSC's Avatar tylerSC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
Yeah, I saw that. CBS seems very lenient on their daytime schedules. I have WRAL, WFMY, and WDBJ and each have their own little quirks in the daytime lineup involving Let's Make a Deal, Young and the Restless, and CBS This Morning. I am not usually home to experience it, and I wouldn't watch most of it anyway, but it's still interesting.

NBC seems to let affliates move the Today show around, too, as I have seen inconsistencies with that show in different markets. WSLS and WNCN show Today from 7 to 11 but WXII splits it up.
WYFF-4 dealays the 3rd hour of Today in favor of Kelly and Michael, and does not show the 4th hour with Kathie Lee and Hoda. You have to watch WCNC to see the 4th hour of Today.
SpencerKarter85's Avatar SpencerKarter85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
WYFF-4 dealays the 3rd hour of Today in favor of Kelly and Michael, and does not show the 4th hour with Kathie Lee and Hoda. You have to watch WCNC to see the 4th hour of Today.
WYFF does show the 4th hour ONLY on 2:05am repeats...Not a complete loss tylerSC! But I hate the way our NBC affiliate does like their crappy sister station if crappy Baltimore when it comes to KLG & Hoda live at 10am. BTW, Baltimore is LAME and Washington, DC is much better since WRC 4 (NBC O&O) carries KLG & Hoda of course at 10am as always and same story for WXIA 11 Alive in Atlanta, GA and ending up like DC does and GSP ends up with stupid Baltimore and I don't like the Baltimore market for five reasons:

1.)Sinclair Broadcast Group is HQ there
2.)Then-ABC WJZ 13 (now CBS O&O) declined to carry Dark Shadows and the late Dick Clark's American Bandstand for knock-off Buddy Deane Show which the latter refused to integrate black and white dancers together (watch the movie Hairspray as loosely based on this) in the 1960s.
3.)Then-NBC WMAR 2 (now ABC) was the first NBC station to drop the late Johnny Carson's TONIGHT SHOW in 1983 for lame knock-off THICKE OF THE NIGHT and later replaced by sitcom reruns and Carson ended up on a Baltimore Independent station.
4.)WBAL is owned by Hearst TV (like WYFF is)
5.) The Market is LAME!

Baltimore STINKS, Washington, DC ROCKS IMHO tylerSC.

Of course I've chances to see KLG & Hoda via WRC from Washington, DC on FilmOnX before TPTB at the NAB won their ways when 4th Circuit Judge ruled their favor to shut down FilmOnX (that was the rival of the late great Aereo) and I've got to see KLG & Hoda via WNBC 4 from NYC and KNBC 4 from Los Angeles, some WTVJ 6 from Miami, and WESH 2 (WYFF's sister station, which carries KLG & Hoda at 11am like WXII in Winston-Salem does unlike WYFF) in Orlando on TVPC.com site.

The first time I had a chance to watch the actual live 4th hour of TODAY SHOW was June 22, 2010 when I was vacationing in Charleston, SC for a short time and it was seen regularly on WCBD 2. That's was before KLG & Hoda started to air 4th hour reruns in Fall 2011-present.

Ironically, KLG & Hoda did mentioned places like Asheville, NC's Biltmore Estate and Spartanburg, SC as well. IRONIC!
tylerSC's Avatar tylerSC
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When I lived in Northern Virginia back in the 90's, you could get both DC and Baltimore stations with an indoor antenna. WRC NBC-4 had great news personalities, including the late sportscaster George Michael. And former WSOC anchor Doreen Gentzler who is still there to this day. Along with Jim Vance, Bob Ryan, and Arch Campbell. And back then WUSA-9 was a highly respected station, although regretably Gannett replaced their longtime anchors who went to WJLA-7, which was also a very good station before Sinclair. But I also enjoyed the Baltimore stations where Oprah got her first big break. And there used to be a very large Roy Rogers restaurant right next door to the WUSA Broadcast House, and you would often see the WUSA personalities eating there. They had a great roast beef sandwich, as well as famous fried chicken.

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