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post #8281 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by A J View Post
So, 4:3 will live on...
Yes, but the world has gone wide. So it needs to be put in a 16:9 frame and flagged properly so the majority of newer Tv's display it correctly. Of course, some of those old 4x3 tube sets will NEVER die, unlike these newer Tv's.
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post #8282 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
I don't know what that is supposed to mean. They are simply looking out for the interests of their members like any group such as this.

With that said, this particular effort probably won't produce much in the way of results. The importance OTA TV isn't on the radar of most people. The TV stations have no one but themselves to blame for this. If they want this issue to go away, then they need a plan to increase OTA viewership beyond the small minority who have cut the cord. Else it matters little to people who get content through cable or broadband.

A good percentage of people cutting the cord don't put up antennas simply because they don't know it's possible or they are not interested in the limited real content on these (main) stations. If Obama and his ex CATV lobbyist head of the FCC wants to repack the spectrum, then I don't see much standing in its way.

I don't see this changing. Some stations in CLT, such as WCNC, never ever even mention their broadcast channel number. Others, such as WMYT use their cable TV channel number. None of them actively mention how easy it is to receive their programming via free antenna. They have a long way to go.
I won't say the NAB is corrupted - but I kind of agree with SpencerKarter. I do think the NAB's "Free TV" ads they've been running out the wazoo are disingenuous to the viewer - the NAB is NOT looking out for the TV viewer, but the NAB is only looking out for the NAB and its members. And ultimately the "local channel" TV viewer is the loser - the way they have been when pay-tv carriage agreements come around. The consumer will pay one way - extended loss of the channel during the dispute and/or higher pay-tv rates. You may now resume bending over and grabbing the ankles with NO vaseline
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post #8283 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 10:37 AM
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You may now resume bending over and grabbing the ankles with NO vaseline
Aw jeesh Eric..now I have to be careful about reading your posts during lunch....
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post #8284 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cpalmer2k View Post
...... Take these sub-channels for what they are.. they're not going to change no matter how much we argue over it.
This was already proven wrong above. WJZY got complaints about Movies!. They fixed it.With regards to the rest of your "purist" post, you can only really speak to what you want. Everyone else is entitled to feel differently.

I certainly don't mind 4:3 content. There are endless numbers of TV programs out there that were produced this way. It should stay that way. When VOOM HD came out they took the old Sci-Fi show UFO, a 4:3 (originally filmed for PAL SD) show and made it 16:9 HD by cropping, zooming, and redigitizing. The result was less than satisfactory, though it was full 16:9 1080i. Though there was no distortion, due to the fact they cropped away part of the picture, but they should have left it 4:3.

It's even worse when a local station decides to take 4:3 content and zooms it to 16:9. It's unwatchable and while they are free to ignore negative commentary about it, it's nice that WJZY didn't.

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post #8285 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 11:09 AM
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.... - the NAB is NOT looking out for the TV viewer, but the NAB is only looking out for the NAB and its members. ....
But isn't this what they are supposed to do?

I do get what you are saying about free OTA broadcasts, but I will point out this. The government won't dare to remove anything that lots of people (voters) want. The fact that this doesn't describe OTA pretty much cements what I said earlier. i.e.

It's a product that free to anyone, yet with even that cost, there are not many takers. What's wrong with this picture?

The NAB and it's members should focus on making broadcast TV indispensable by a majority of the public and drop the strategy of making money through carriage fees. For example they should have been thanking the stars that something like Aerio came around but what did they do? Go to court to shut them down. Long term, it's like slitting your own wrist with a knife to prove an argument that it is sharp.

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post #8286 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 11:16 AM
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55.2 is now blank
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post #8287 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 11:23 AM
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55.2 is now blank
We saw that coming. They dropped it from the schedule on their web site a week or so back, and WKHY added it to their line-up. I am surprised the carriage agreement was not violated by 55.2 keeping it on this long, since it represented a dual-broadcast in the Charlotte demographic area for days.
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post #8288 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Theo1080 View Post
Just to state once more, WAXN-TV broadcast getTV as it is delivery to us. It comes to us as a 4x3, 480i feed. Contract states we MUST broadcast it that way. Same with ESCAPE TV, it will come to us as a 16x9, 1080i. We will D/C to 480i but will leave it 16x9. Please stop saying stations need to get it right. We ARE doing right by the contract we have with the provider. We are not allow to change content of delivery.
Thanks for the info about ESCAPE-TV format. If a channel can only broadcast in 4:3, I prefer the way GetTv keeps the original aspect ratio (whether 4:3 or 16:9), it's better than chopping/stretching it to a full 4:3 image. This gives us the option to use our tv/receiver's zoom functions to fill the screen.

Watched GetTV last night and recorded "..Condor" on 46.2 for later viewing.

OTA sub-channel variety is getting better in this area, which is great. The local stations may not get enough advertising revenue to sustain the sub-channels(s), so the re-trans fees can help subsidize them. Being OTA only, that's fine with me .
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post #8289 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 11:53 AM
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I believe the first sub-channel in Charlotte was This on 3.2, back in 2010. MeTV in early 2011 was the second. At that point, I made the decision to get rid DirecTV, and go all OTA. Now we have 22 channels total (not including the impossible-to-receive sub-channels from Hickory), and I would not even consider returning to a cable option. My count of 22 is:
3.1,2
9.1,2
18.1,2,3
28.1 (same thing on 28.2, so counting this at one)
36.1,2
42.1,2,3
46.1,2
55.1,3
58.1,2,3
64.1,2
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post #8290 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 11:55 AM
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.... The local stations may not get enough advertising revenue to sustain the sub-channels(s), so the re-trans fees can help subsidize them. Being OTA only, that's fine with me .
But it isn't fine with the CATV/SAT/Telco companies paying out those fees. They see OTA as an unnecessary middleman and are pushing changes that will eventually get rid of it. This is the issue. The broadcasters have made a deal with the devil. And the devil is always paid his due when the time comes.
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post #8291 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by cpalmer2k View Post
...many are viewing on older 4:3 televisions with converter boxes. Most of the material on these sub-channels is naively 4:3 anyway.
I am not sure how much of that is true anymore. CEA has users with at least 1 HD TV at over 80% and users with two HD TVs at over 50%. I do see a LOT of old CRT sets on the curbs these days.

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post #8292 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 12:19 PM
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I heard a stat on the radio last night, that said 60 million Americans still rely on over-the-air television. I have a hard time believing WSOC, WBTV, WCCB, etc. can be forced to stop broadcasting and send their signal only through cable/satellite/internet/phone providers. I believe that's a tin foil hat conspiracy theory. The political will for it isn't there.
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post #8293 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 12:24 PM
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I am not sure how much of that is true anymore. CEA has users with at least 1 HD TV at over 80% and users with two HD TVs at over 50%. I do see a LOT of old CRT sets on the curbs these days.
Point taken... the point I was trying to make is that if people don't like the way a sub-channel operates should go after the people who operate the subchannels, not the stations that air them. In the case of WJZY Movies! is a 16:9 feed, that is fixable. But when ME-TV, GetTV, etc send out a 4:3 signal don't beat the stations up for keeping it a 4:3 signal.
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post #8294 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 12:31 PM
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WCCB makes use of the 16x9 picture on 18.3 when they broadcast some widescreen local commercials, even though the MeTV network broadcasts in purely a 4x3 ratio.
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post #8295 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cpalmer2k View Post
Point taken... the point I was trying to make is that if people don't like the way a sub-channel operates should go after the people who operate the subchannels, not the stations that air them. In the case of WJZY Movies! is a 16:9 feed, that is fixable. But when ME-TV, GetTV, etc send out a 4:3 signal don't beat the stations up for keeping it a 4:3 signal.
No sweat. While my dot 2 is fed in 4:3, we do have the AR set for 16:9 and during network just keep it 4:3 with black bars. When the local spots hit, if they are in 16:9, we keep them in 16:9, just like Bob does at WCCB. I think he may have been the first in the state to do that and when we put on our dot 2 in 2011, we started out doing it and we may have been the second. I don't remember. Too much water under that bridge. Since then, one other station in the market has switched their dot 2 from 4:3 to 16:9. The others are still 4:3 here.
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post #8296 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 01:43 PM
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55.2 is now blank
I wonder what they are going to replace it with?
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post #8297 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 01:51 PM
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Regarding the Channel Master DVR+. The tuner is indeed very sensitive and it is subject to overload from strong signals. I use a preamp to receive the Charlotte signals, and the DVR+ will not get 4, 7, and 9(29) from GSP. Due to overload. But I do not have this problem with the internal TV tuners, nor the TiVo Roamio. Now if you have multiple splitters or an attenuater, then the DVR+ may be able to receive some of those stronger signals with the overload reduced.
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post #8298 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 02:18 PM
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Regarding the Channel Master DVR+. The tuner is indeed very sensitive and it is subject to overload from strong signals. I use a preamp to receive the Charlotte signals, and the DVR+ will not get 4, 7, and 9(29) from GSP. Due to overload. But I do not have this problem with the internal TV tuners, nor the TiVo Roamio. Now if you have multiple splitters or an attenuater, then the DVR+ may be able to receive some of those stronger signals with the overload reduced.
My experience was the exact opposite.. My most powerful signals were received perfect. But the others, even though they are just slightly below the three top ones signal wise suffered constant break ups.
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post #8299 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 02:45 PM
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....But when ME-TV, GetTV, etc send out a 4:3 signal don't beat the stations up for keeping it a 4:3 signal.
Nobody here has made this complaint.
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post #8300 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 03:00 PM
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..... I have a hard time believing WSOC, WBTV, WCCB, etc. can be forced to stop broadcasting and send their signal only through cable/satellite/internet/phone providers. I believe that's a tin foil hat conspiracy theory. The political will for it isn't there.
There are a lot of people who believe that companies like Google would do a better job with the spectrum.

If you said 10 years ago that switched TDM, aka POTS, aka simple land line telephone service, would be put out of business by the FCC, you would have gotten a lot of non-believers too. It's been around for 130 years and at one time MaBell had over a million domestic employees just to make it work.

Yet the FCC has asked AT&T, Verizon, others to put forth a plan to phase it out starting in 2020. It's what happens when a once ubiquitous technology, one that worked remarkably well, is abandoned for something else that provides more perceived value.
-----

But even if you ignore this example, the very fact the broadcasters, at least here in Charlotte are running adverts for people to call their congressmen to stop pay tv operators, speaks for itself. They certainly believe it could happen.
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post #8301 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 03:21 PM
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All good points, but the difference is that you pay for phone use, whether landline or cell. Forcing people to switch to the latter, if the cost is kept inline, would be acceptable. I could live with it, as long as they improve the technology, because when my customers call me on a cell, there are often drop-outs on what is already a poor signal.

Broadcast television on the other hand is free, and the poor would be punished the most if we all have to start paying for it. That's why I say the political will isn't there. With 20% of the country getting their TV that way, telling them they will now have to pay for it will take votes away from the representatives who voted for it.

In addition to my landline, I also still drink water out of the tap. For me it's free because I have a well. But that takes money away from the bottled water producers and the city (since city water is in my neighborhood, but I am grand-fathered out of having to use it). So there will probably be propaganda put out there about how dangerous it is to drink unfiltered, unpurified water. I don't think congress will buy it, for the above reasons. Not to mention that there are documented dangers to consuming the chlorine and flouride that are added to water, to "purify" it...
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post #8302 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 04:42 PM
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Nobody here has made this complaint.
Are you saying YOU haven't complain or nobody in this FORUM has complain?
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post #8303 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 05:00 PM
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Are you saying YOU haven't complain or nobody in this FORUM has complain?
What I said was clear enough. You are trying to make something out of nothing.
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post #8304 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 06:39 PM
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... Not to mention that there are documented dangers to consuming the chlorine and flouride that are added to water...
Aha, I heard about that when getTV aired "Dr Strangelove". Danged commie plot to sap our precious bodily fluids!
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post #8305 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 07:08 PM
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ThisTV has now reappeared on 55.2. At least for now. Unless they are keeping it after all.
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post #8306 of 9073 Old 08-07-2014, 07:15 PM
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My experience was the exact opposite.. My most powerful signals were received perfect. But the others, even though they are just slightly below the three top ones signal wise suffered constant break ups.
Not necessarily. As the Dallas signals may actually be stronger in Gaffney than GSP. Particularly WBTV. So if your antenna is aimed toward the more distant WSOC/WCCB, it may further weaken the GSP signals but still be strong enough to receive them. But WBTV is too strong to decode. Anyway, apparently the DVR+ has tuner sensitivity issues of one form or another, according to reports in that thread. Most found the first Channel Master 7000/Pal DVR made by Dish Network/Echostar to have a more reliable tuner.
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post #8307 of 9073 Old 08-08-2014, 12:26 AM
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No sweat. While my dot 2 is fed in 4:3, we do have the AR set for 16:9 and during network just keep it 4:3 with black bars. When the local spots hit, if they are in 16:9, we keep them in 16:9, just like Bob does at WCCB. I think he may have been the first in the state to do that and when we put on our dot 2 in 2011, we started out doing it and we may have been the second. I don't remember. Too much water under that bridge. Since then, one other station in the market has switched their dot 2 from 4:3 to 16:9. The others are still 4:3 here.
There is no excuse why the others can't do it the way you do. You still present Antenna TV in 4:3, the others would be doing the same, so I don't buy it.

Props to WeatherNation on WFMY 2-2, too, although WeatherNation is only 16:9 so it's not quite the same. It is also 16:9 SD on WSET 13-3.
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post #8308 of 9073 Old 08-08-2014, 02:31 AM
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There is no excuse why the others can't do it the way you do. You still present Antenna TV in 4:3, the others would be doing the same, so I don't buy it.

Props to WeatherNation on WFMY 2-2, too, although WeatherNation is only 16:9 so it's not quite the same. It is also 16:9 SD on WSET 13-3.
As I say earlier WN is available nationwide on DirecTV channel 361 (HD and SD).

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post #8309 of 9073 Old 08-08-2014, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SpencerKarter85 View Post
As I say earlier WN is available nationwide on DirecTV channel 361 (HD and SD).
They also have their own interactive channel on the Roku. Not only can you watch the full 16:9 aspect ratio program in HD, but it shows the local forecasts for your area including a future cast, 5-day, and local radar.

This channel is free to anyone with a Roku.

WN is far far superior than the mess that NBC/Universal/Comcast made of the weather channel. It reminds me of the TWC back in the 1980s when they actually gave forecasts without very loud always hyperventilating, let's make drama out if everything "personalities".

Ironically, WN got its start as the Weather Cast for Dish Network.


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post #8310 of 9073 Old 08-08-2014, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post
Props to WeatherNation on WFMY 2-2, too, although WeatherNation is only 16:9 so it's not quite the same. It is also 16:9 SD on WSET 13-3.
And yet, here in DC, it's letterboxed in a 4:3 frame.

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