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post #8671 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 03:12 AM
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^Maybe it's related to changed they implied needed to be made in order to accommodate grit TV.

Though it doesn't bother me, not everyone is comfortable with wiring "live" circuits.
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post #8672 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
You can go with the free EIT info transmitted by the stations, but these can be as little as a few hours. It makes it useless for program scheduling.
OK, I'll bite. What does the acronym, EIT, stand for in this context? In every company I've worked for EIT stands for Engineer in Training.

I've always seen program guide info referred to as PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) or EPG (Electronic program guide). I hadn't run across EIT used this way before.

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post #8673 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 09:25 AM
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Event Information Table.

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post #8674 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cs51762 View Post
At approximately 9:15 PM WBTV's signal disappeared. Gone on Charter Cable and my OTA tuner.
Les Moonves had to tip his waiter?

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post #8675 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by A J View Post
OK, I'll bite. What does the acronym, EIT, stand for in this context? In every company I've worked for EIT stands for Engineer in Training.....
EIT does stand for engineer in training. It's one of the grueling steps that you have to get through, at least here in NC to be allowed to sit for the PE. Best taken when you completed your sophomore year of a BS in Engineering program, but of course they won't let you do it then.

However in the context that I used it in, EIT is PSIP info. sent out by the stations. I'm not one to use industry lingo to obfuscate a conversation so my apologies. I thought it was a common term, but that doesn't appear to be the case. MythTV refers to it in this manner when you decide if you want to use it or not.
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post #8676 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 11:05 AM
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Here is the wording from ATSC A/65....Any infromation concerning the ATSC DTV setup can be found at atsc.org standards A/65

ATSC – Advanced Television Systems Committee
CAT – Conditional Access Table
CRC – cyclic redundancy check
CVCT – Cable Virtual Channel Table
DCC – Directed Channel Change
DCCRR – DCC capable DTV reference receiver
DCCSCT – DCC Selection Code Table
DET – Data Event Table
DTV – digital television
EPG – electronic program guide
EIT – Event Information Table
EMM – entitlement management message
ETM – Extended Text Message
ETT – Extended Text Table
PSIP – Program and System Information Protocol
MGT – Master Guide Table
MPEG – Moving Picture Experts Group
NVOD – near video on demand
OOB – out of band
PAT – Program Association Table
PCR – Program Clock Reference
PES – Packetized Elementary Stream
PID – packet identifier
PMT – Program Map Table
PTC – physical transmission channel
STD – System Target Decoder
STT – System Time Table
RRT – Rating Region Table
TS – Transport Stream
TSID – Transport Stream Identifier (digital) or Transmission
Signal Identifier (analog)
TVCT – Terrestrial Virtual Channel Table
VCT – Virtual Channel Table. Used in reference to either TVCT or CVCT.

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post #8677 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 11:33 AM
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^Reminds me of when I worked for old Bell System. Acronyms ruled the day there in telephone land. Interestingly, however, and it's the only place that I've seen it, they would constantly tell the employees NOT to use these terms with the public. They didn't want customers confused by technical jargon. It's something that has stayed with me all this time. IMO, it's a practice that should come back.

Though when I worked at the Bell System employee relations had a different meaning. http://www.telephonecollectors.info/...her-jones-1981
It was a sad day when they had to lock up the green pills.
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post #8678 of 8987 Old 08-29-2014, 05:22 PM
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It's fascinating to see the effect that weather has on a marginal signal. Concerning the antenna that I built above, it was designed, "cut", specifically for RF 15 which happens to be WNSC in Rock Hill.

  • In the middle of the night, it does get enough of a signal to hold a lock on WNSC. However as soon as the sun starts to come up, it's gone. It won't even scan.
  • The LNA 200 amp has no effect on this or anything else the antenna picks up in this area. It's proof enough that an amplifier doesn't make an antenna receive better.
  • It absolutely won't pick up RF 11 or WTVI. Proof enough that if want VHF you should get a VHF/UHF combo.
  • On the other hand, it as an amazingly wide beam. For the stronger UHF channels that I get, it really doesn't matter where the antenna is pointed. It will receive them. Most like this has a lot to do with the entire antenna being electrically connected rather than to make the dipole and reflectors/directors insulated from each other.

Think I'm going to build a bigger one to replace a 4 bay.
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post #8679 of 8987 Old 08-30-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
  1. Antennas don't have nearly the power of an amplified cable signal. That distribution system is going to degrade the signal. (and who knows what the cable jockey did) I get a separate cable and run it straight to the TV, maybe through a window.
  2. It needs to be above the roof, if the roof is between the antenna & signal.
  3. Are you going with a pre-amp or a distribution amp.
Hello, I just bypassed all the house RG6 and went from the antenna, 25' RG6 Quad shield cable to LG tuner. After that I got 17 clear channels. Antenna points 331 degrees magnetic.

The LG tuner is in my bonus room right below the attic where antenna is. So that will work great.

However, I also want to get a good signal to downstairs rooms. The only way to do that is to use the existing house cable. I can use the cable from the bonus room back to the Legrand distribution panel downstairs (uses a VM1002 1x8 splitter, -11.1db) & then single runs from there to each room.

So, I guess I need an unamplified signal for my bonus room then a splitter/amplified signal to my distro box. What are the suggestions on the best way to handle this?

Thanks for all the help
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post #8680 of 8987 Old 08-30-2014, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinRG View Post
Hello, I just bypassed all the house RG6 and went from the antenna, 25' RG6 Quad shield cable to LG tuner. After that I got 17 clear channels. Antenna points 331 degrees magnetic.

The LG tuner is in my bonus room right below the attic where antenna is. So that will work great.

However, I also want to get a good signal to downstairs rooms. The only way to do that is to use the existing house cable. I can use the cable from the bonus room back to the Legrand distribution panel downstairs (uses a VM1002 1x8 splitter, -11.1db) & then single runs from there to each room.

So, I guess I need an unamplified signal for my bonus room then a splitter/amplified signal to my distro box. What are the suggestions on the best way to handle this?

Thanks for all the help
If I understand the situation correctly, you will need a two port distribution amp. The antenna will go to the input,, a short run from one out port to the LG, then then the other out port to the house cable. This sort of distribution amp is not expensive.
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post #8681 of 8987 Old 08-30-2014, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinRG View Post

So, I guess I need an unamplified signal for my bonus room then a splitter/amplified signal to my distro box. What are the suggestions on the best way to handle this?

Thanks for all the help
I really need a diagram or something before I can tell you because I can't follow what you are talking about. Was this with the antenna outside or in the attic?

If it was in the attic, then you should assume that it will get worse and not design to conditions on a nice clear day.
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post #8682 of 8987 Old 08-30-2014, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
I really need a diagram or something before I can tell you because I can't follow what you are talking about. Was this with the antenna outside or in the attic?

If it was in the attic, then you should assume that it will get worse and not design to conditions on a nice clear day.
I kept it in the attic. I thought about what you said about going through all the house wiring to the living room was where I was only getting 4 channels. So I connected directly to the 25' cable I had coming off the antenna (which is in my bonus room upstairs) and got 17 channels with the antenna pointing 331 degrees magnetic. I was also barely getting 9.1&2- WSOC (not sure how), but it was dropping out a lot.

Maybe this will help:
- antenna to bonus room (25' cable) - 17 channels (3-1&2, 28-1&2, 30-1&2&3, 36-1&2, 42-1&2&3, 46-1&2, 55-1&2&3).
- antenna to bonus room to 8 way splitter (-11DB) in distribution box then to living room (unknown cable length) - 4 channels @ 67% signal strength

So, I'm thinking that the signal straight off the antenna is good. but I need to amplify the signal going into my distribution box that feeds the rest of the house. The questions are:
- do I put amplifier at end of 25' cable & amplify signal to bonus room & the distro box?
- do I split the signal before amp & leave bonus room unamped & amp only the signal to the distro box?
- does it matter?
- what would be a good amp?

Last edited by CinRG; 08-30-2014 at 02:46 PM. Reason: added another question
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post #8683 of 8987 Old 08-30-2014, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
\
  • In the middle of the night, it does get enough of a signal to hold a lock on WNSC. However as soon as the sun starts to come up, it's gone. It won't even scan...
Interestingly, taking that antenna off the ladder and sitting it on the steps of the deck, it picks up WNSC, as designed, all day long. Will be nice to get PBS World.

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post #8684 of 8987 Old 08-30-2014, 05:10 PM
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re:CinRG: As I thought, that junction box may be blocking the signal. And do you need 8 ports at that splitter? If you could, I would replace that splitter with a 3 or 4 port version if that is all you need. And I would put a Channel Master 3410 distribution amplifier close to the antenna in the attic, not at the end of a 25 ft cable. Get a 3ft RG6 cable at Home Depot and connect antenna to amplifier in the attic. See if that gets more signal to the other TVs. If you do not have power in the attic, then add a remote power injector or get a preamp instead of a distribution amp. Channel Master 7778 is a good moderate gain preamp with 16db gain; all you should need. You may even consider placing a dist amp in place of the splitter in the junction box. They have 2 port, 4 port, and 8 port versions as needed. Look at a Channel Master 3414 or 3418 dist amp. But I would still get an amp at the antenna first. Also, you may need to reposition the antenna to find a better sweet spot, as you appear to be having problems with WSOC and WCCB which are major channels you should receive.
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post #8685 of 8987 Old 08-30-2014, 06:21 PM
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Time is running out. We shall soon see if WBTV and DirecTV reach a last minute agreement. But nice to see them suggest an antenna. And they want you to ask for a refund if you lose service.
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post #8686 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 02:07 AM
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WJZY has decided to compete with WBTV for 5am Sunday Morning news. Previously WBTV was the only station with news this early on Sun.

In fact WJZY is doing 4 hours of news followed by 1 hour of Fox News Sunday (national feed) so 5 total hours on Sunday morning.

Would be interesting to see what the ratings end up being for this morning show. IMO, it's clearly superior to what's on the other 4 station's morning news. (no teleprompter drones, loud mouth bubbas, screeching baby talking women, poser girly men, etc.) Now if they could match it with their evening news, which IMO, clearly needs a change. It's like Dr Jekyl & Mr. Hyde.

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post #8687 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
Time is running out. We shall soon see if WBTV and DirecTV reach a last minute agreement. But nice to see them suggest an antenna. And they want you to ask for a refund if you lose service.
Even if Direct drops WBTV for a few days, they will kiss and make up before the fall TV season starts. Too much money is at stake. Direct will simply raise the rates next January. WBTV won't mention the word "antenna" again until the next carriage dispute.

It's just a dog & pony show for them because they think the suckers customers will keep paying.
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post #8688 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 03:08 AM
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Originally Posted by CinRG View Post
I kept it in the attic.....
At least from what I gather from your post, you are missing 2 major stations WSOC & WCCB which you should be getting.

There probably isn't much more that I can tell you to improve what you have as long as you keep that antenna in the attic. While I do think you need to work on your amp situation due to the # of TVs, you are going to be chasing a lot of attic gremlins which are going to confuse it.

On the other hand, when I was just starting out as a newly graduated engineer out of college one of the senior guys told me "any engineering problem can be solved with enough money(effort)". So you might get something to work. Good luck.

Last edited by blackcat6; 08-31-2014 at 03:14 AM.
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post #8689 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
WJZY has decided to compete with WBTV for 5am Sunday Morning news. Previously WBTV was the only station with news this early on Sun.

In fact WJZY is doing 4 hours of news followed by 1 hour of Fox News Sunday (national feed) so 5 total hours on Sunday morning.

Would be interesting to see what the ratings end up being for this morning show. IMO, it's clearly superior to what's on the other 4 station's morning news. (no teleprompter drones, loud mouth bubbas, screeching baby talking women, poser girly men, etc.) Now if they could match it with their evening news, which IMO, clearly needs a change. It's like Dr Jekyl & Mr. Hyde.
They have a nice morning show on WJZY. It is a nice alternative to "traffic and weather together every 10 minutes", and the constant repetition of the same headlines. And a reporter live on the scene from the most recent overnight fire or shooting. 3, 9, and 36 do that format very well. Nice to now have a different choice on WJZY, along with Rising on WCCB. It will be interesting to see how the ratings work out. Meanwhile, they have just lost 2 major morning anchors on WSOC, with Peter Daut and Tenikka Smith departing. So changes coming there.
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post #8690 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 09:00 AM
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I think they took a stab at the other stations. They put a reporter out in front of a school last Monday at 5am. They asked what's going on. Response "Nothing, it's 5 am. lots of laughter". LOL

And it's very nice not to hear a reciting of the Charlotte police report from the previous night. I don't think anyone cares who shot who anymore.

Last edited by blackcat6; 08-31-2014 at 09:04 AM.
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post #8691 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 10:12 AM
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^^Some of the stations were even promoting back to school coverage. Like that is some sort of major event. Happens every year. I managed to graduate high school without the TV stations telling me how to do it. Sure, there will be more traffic on the roads, with school buses etc. But they already have a traffic reporter to handle that. And don't get me started on all that Friday night football coverage and overhyped foolishness. I would much rather watch the late night talk shows at their normal time. Which I can do with WSPA and WLOS.
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post #8692 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 11:45 AM
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WSOC & WCCB are 42 & 40 degrees magnetic. The antenna is pointing 331 degrees magnetic. I wouldn't expect to get those currently. If it wasn't so hot, I'd go up in the attic & point it that direction to see what all I picked up. But I think I can reasonably expect it to work as well as it did pointing 331 degrees.

My future plan is to get another antenna to point in that direction. At which point I would use a 2 to 1 combiner.

I think I'm leaning towards a pre-amp in the attic by the antenna, a 2-way splitter to the bonus room & distribution box and change the 1x8 splitter in the distribution box into a 1x4.
?
The Channel Master CM-7778 was recommended as a pre-amp. Are there any others to look at?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
At least from what I gather from your post, you are missing 2 major stations WSOC & WCCB which you should be getting.

There probably isn't much more that I can tell you to improve what you have as long as you keep that antenna in the attic. While I do think you need to work on your amp situation due to the # of TVs, you are going to be chasing a lot of attic gremlins which are going to confuse it.

On the other hand, when I was just starting out as a newly graduated engineer out of college one of the senior guys told me "any engineering problem can be solved with enough money(effort)". So you might get something to work. Good luck.
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post #8693 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 04:06 PM
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There is an inexpensive RCA preamp sold by Walmart.com with free shipping to store. A good performer, low noise, and resistant to overload. And there is a Winegard LNA-200 that seems to perform well, but the noise figure is debatable. But any of the Channel Master distribution amps can be used as a preamp at the antenna. Just order the remote power injector, the PCT power supply about $6.
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post #8694 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CinRG View Post
WSOC & WCCB are 42 & 40 degrees magnetic. The antenna is pointing 331 degrees magnetic. I wouldn't expect to get those currently.
If that antenna was outside, the beam of that yagi-uda would be enough to cover both. It will be much more challenging in the attic.

I have a CM7778 (I think). It's been operating for 2+ years without issue.
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post #8695 of 8987 Old 08-31-2014, 04:59 PM
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I modified that "plumbers delight" antenna today to insulate the driven element from the boom. It's now picking up WNSC reliably. More fascinating, it's also now picking up all the other Charlotte stations despite not being pointed at either farm. I have it pointed due south at WNSC. The only missing channels are WHKY (expected) and WTVi (wrong band)

I also got rid of the Chinese balum and made a 1:4 balum out of some coax cut to 482MHZ.

The antenna is zip tied to the rail on my deck and pointed at WNSC. To bad I can't leave it there. .
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post #8696 of 8987 Old 09-01-2014, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
Time is running out. We shall soon see if WBTV and DirecTV reach a last minute agreement. But nice to see them suggest an antenna. And they want you to ask for a refund if you lose service.
It say's when I tune to Ch.3 that they have not reached an agreement and there is no programming available.

All Comments made are my own and not of my employer.
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post #8697 of 8987 Old 09-01-2014, 11:46 AM
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In regard to blackcat's post about sweet spots, it is funny where they can be. Some find this interesting, for those who do, this is my story: There are a sweet spot simply by setting my antenna on top of my outdoor AC unit. It gets these stations perfectly, steady 50-80% on the signal meter, virtually no drop outs:
WFMY-2 (CBS, Weathernation) Greensboro
WUNC-4 (UNCTV PBS group) Chapel Hill
WRAL-5 (CBS, This) Raleigh
WGHP-8 (Fox, Antenna) High Point
WGPX-16 (Ion group, HSN, QVCOTA) Burlington
WCWG-20 (CW, BNT, Estrella, Bounce) Greensboro
WLFL-22 (CW, Zuus Country) Raleigh

WRDC-28 (MyRDC, Get) Durham*
WUVC-40 (Univision, Unimas, Bounce Get) Fayetteville
WLXI-43 (TCT group, ABN) Greensboro

WXLV-45 (ABC, Zuus Country) Winston-Salem*
WRAZ-50(Fox, MeTV) Raleigh

It also gets, with pixelation:
WDBJ-7 (CBS, MY) Roanoke
WSLS-10 Roanoke will come through sometimes, but I won't count it.)
WTVD-11 (ABC, LWN) Durham (VHF RF)*
WXII-12 (NBC, MeTV) Winston-Salem**
WSET-13 (ABC, RTV, Weathernation) Lynchburg ** (VHF RF)
WNCN-17 (NBC, Antenna)* Goldsboro (aka Raleigh like the others)
WTNC-26 (Unimas, Univision, Bounce, Get) Durham**
WUNC-26 (UNC PBS group) Winston Salem
---(both WTNC and WUNL are ch 26.x on PSIP)
WRPX-47 (Ion group with HSN, QVCOTA) Rocky Mount**
WSGR-47 (Independants) Reidsville
---(WGSR is mixed with WRPX since they are both 47.x)
WMYV-48 (My48, Get) Greensboro

That is the most channels I can receive in any spot around my apartment patio. The stations with ** will lock on the tuner and display but very little of the picture actually shows up. Sadly, when the AC unit turns on, my selection becomes WUNC, WGPX, and WCWG with a pixely WRAL and WGHP, and WUVC. It also looks stupid sitting there. I also prefer to be cool.

It is in its summer spot above that area where it gets most of the channels in the first group (bold, or except those marked with * ) and a couple in the second, those bold and with the *. In the winter (or, as soon as the large oak tree in the way loses its leaves), it returns to the other support pole for the patio above me where all of the channels in the first group and many in the second become more watchable.

I realize that that was a long post about out of market stations. But it goes to show that sometimes the location of a sweet spot is in a far-from-logical place.

Last edited by ejb1980; 09-01-2014 at 11:50 AM.
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post #8698 of 8987 Old 09-01-2014, 12:37 PM
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nice post with good info Ejb..just reinforces the point one should not "assume" a particular installation won't work without first trying it, and as you say, maybe try a few different combinations. if you don't try it, it definitely won't work. otherwise it may just work fine. and not everyone can install or wants an outdoor antenna, nor expects perfection. nor has the time to continually mess with it.
I think a lot of people have forgotten just how good analog was not..especially on ch3.
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Bob

The views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the FOX,ABC,CBS,or CW Networks,MeTv, my employer or its parent company. Nor my wife for that matter!
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post #8699 of 8987 Old 09-01-2014, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybsane View Post
It say's when I tune to Ch.3 that they have not reached an agreement and there is no programming available.
Always good to have an antenna as a supplement or backup.
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post #8700 of 8987 Old 09-01-2014, 06:15 PM
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Weather Radar?

Today I noticed what I think is a radar dome on a tower near the Oakdale section of NW Charlotte. The round dome is too small to be a water tower I think. Would that be related to weather radar and any of the Charlotte TV News Departments?
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