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post #9031 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 08:36 AM
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Looks like an RCA Ant 751 or similar. It doesn't have enough gain for my location. You continue to completely miss the point that an antenna that works in one location is no guarantee that it will work elsewhere, even down the street.

Maybe you don't understand how to interpret a reception plot to know this because if you did, you wouldn't continue to insist that I can receive 16.1. I will try to help you out. I picked a random location in W. Cornelius. This is the resulting TV Fool Report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2437c285ab4c6

Notice the difference between this and the report posted above.

  • In W. Cornelius the NM is 26.6 db and the station is LOS. You should be able to receive that station with that antenna.
  • Now at my location the station is 4.5 db and 2 Edge. There is no way that antenna mounted outside is going to reliably pickup 16.1.

So hopefully this clears it up for you. Acnedotal reviews of antennas are generally useless. You should only pick an antenna that will receive the signals as seen from your location. Never base it on what works across town or in another city as you keep suggesting.

(I would have put up an Antennacraft HBU-22 at that location. Hugely better USA built antenna for not much money. I would have grounded that mast too.)
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post #9032 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
Looks like an RCA Ant 751 or similar. It doesn't have enough gain for my location. You continue to completely miss the point that an antenna that works in one location is no guarantee that it will work elsewhere, even down the street.

Maybe you don't understand how to interpret a reception plot to know this because if you did, you wouldn't continue to insist that I can receive 16.1. I will try to help you out. I picked a random location in W. Cornelius. This is the resulting TV Fool Report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2437c285ab4c6

Notice the difference between this and the report posted above.

  • In W. Cornelius the NM is 26.6 db and the station is LOS. You should be able to receive that station with that antenna.
  • Now at my location the station is 4.5 db and 2 Edge. There is no way that antenna mounted outside is going to reliably pickup 16.1.

So hopefully this clears it up for you. Acnedotal reviews of antennas are generally useless. You should only pick an antenna that will receive the signals as seen from your location. Never base it on what works across town or in another city as you keep suggesting.

(I would have put up an Antennacraft HBU-22 at that location. Hugely better USA built antenna for not much money. I would have grounded that mast too.)
If your location is 4.5db and 2 Edge that would put you Iredell County and Not in Huntersville where you say you live. Here is Denver NC which is farther NW from you.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243100fb05fd0

You can see that 16.1 is still obtainable, Here is another for Mt. Ulla.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2435875a4159f

I can read plots very well, thanks for that un-necessary dig again trying to form opinions about others you don't know.

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post #9033 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ybsane View Post
If your location is 4.5db and 2 Edge that would put you Iredell County and Not in Huntersville where you say you live. Here is Denver NC which is farther NW from you......
LOL!!! Pay attention to that link. It says Huntersville.. I don't know of a way to hack TV Fool to report a false location.

You are only demonstrating that you really don't understand this stuff.

Last edited by blackcat6; 11-17-2014 at 10:13 AM.
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post #9034 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 11:08 AM
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Please stop putting down people in your comments, you stated: I picked a random location in W. Cornelius. This is the resulting TV Fool Report.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d2437c285ab4c6 > This link is Cornelius and you have not posted your TVFool link so it is difficult to understand where your numbers are derived from?

Notice I am not putting you down, but you have no problem putting down others and belittling their intelligence.

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post #9035 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 11:14 AM
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Follow up..: I give up Blackcat6 you are the most intelligent person on the Charlotte OTA forum congratulations...

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post #9036 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ybsane View Post
... and you have not posted your TVFool link....
I certainly did. In this post.

Here is is again.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...d243921bf3dd59
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post #9037 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 12:34 PM
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I can tell you professionally that you are limited by the height of your antenna being only 12' compared to bringing up to 20', but for your own personal matters you may have a reason why. I did input 20' for the other locations and I apologize for not reading thru and discovering what you had posted about location.

Rob

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post #9038 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 01:17 PM
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^I already said this too, but you apparently paid that no mind as well.

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Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
.... That station according to TV Fool, for me has a noise margin of only 19 db and it's 1 Edge as well. (with a 25' high antenna) Sure I can spend the money on something to receive it. .....But it's not going to be picked up by a "cheap antenna" as you suggest.

Bottom line, as I said many posts back, 16.1 is too weak for me to receive at my location.
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post #9039 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 02:07 PM
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My over-the-air DVR added 16.1 to my channel line-up. I have come to realize that means absolutely nothing, except that conditions were right one day, probably at 2:47 AM when the moon was full (OK - kidding about the moon part), so it retrieved the signal for two seconds or something. It has added channels from as far away as the Myrtle Beach area. I get this pop-up saying new channels were found, but the joy is short-lived. Never again am I able to get them.
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post #9040 of 9053 Old 11-17-2014, 03:27 PM
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Yeah. Earlier this year I experimented with a Yagi that I cut specifically for WNSC in Rock Hill. I posted a picture of it earlier in this topic. While I was playing around with it, I picked up a lot more than WNSC but most of it wasn't really receivable so I took care to make sure they didn't get added to my DVR's lineup.

(I took down that yagi. I didn't have the time to build the weather hardened version that was to replace it. )
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post #9041 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
TV Fool is a good tool to give you a place to start looking. The next step is Longley Rice propagation model that works better. Having done this for a long time direct signal measurement is the best we can do at this point. I will tell you that transmit antennas do not make nice smooth curves from a tower. They will have very ruff edges caused by the fact they are not in free space, but mounted on a tower. Conditions change summer to winter with propagation of signals. With DTV we have to deal with "Cliff Effect" that translates to "it works or it does not". It is very clear from most of your post that you have limited knowledge of how this works, but you do have very strong opinions of how you think it works.

Tom

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post #9042 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 07:58 AM
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Yeah. Earlier this year I experimented with a Yagi that I cut specifically for WNSC in Rock Hill. )
I remember that, that was the one where you did not double check the math and cut the elements incorrectly, Right?
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Nor my wife for that matter!
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post #9043 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by realoldman View Post
Rabbitears.info reports that WCNC-TV will be replacing Living Well with Justice Network.
Was hoping for WeatherNation

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post #9044 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 12:25 PM
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Was hoping for WeatherNation
I think they may still carry WeatherNation on WFMY in Greensboro, which is also Gannett. So I thought maybe WCNC would pick it up as well, but I guess not. And some Gannett stations carry Cozi TV from NBC which I would like to see.
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post #9045 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 02:01 PM
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The real answer to all of this is: is 16.1 worth watching ? ; not "I can get more stations than you"
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post #9046 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 02:02 PM
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I think they may still carry WeatherNation on WFMY in Greensboro, which is also Gannett. So I thought maybe WCNC would pick it up as well, but I guess not. And some Gannett stations carry Cozi TV from NBC which I would like to see.
Cozi is great station Tyler, I pull it off a satellite feed and the content is real good. WCNC was suppose to carry this but something change on programming negotiations somewhere.

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post #9047 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 05:37 PM
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..... It is very clear from most of your post that you have limited knowledge of how this works, but you do have very strong opinions of how you think it works.
LOL. It's very clear that you obviously don't get the point.

I said that I can't easily receive WCEE-LP 16.1. I was told that I could. The party who said this was wrong. Where is your criticism of that?

So I'll ask you the same question that I asked the last "expert" who weighed in. Please tell me which "cheap antenna" I can use to receive that station. Please include the costs of any required mounting. You can use either of those two TV Fool reports that I posted. I wait to hear the secret of this magic cheap antenna.

Oh yeah. Add in WKHY too since it's in the same direction. 2 years ago you told me that I wasn't supposed to receive it.

If you can't come up with an answer, then I'd say I know all that I need to know about it. I don't claim to be a professional or expert.

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post #9048 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 05:39 PM
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I remember that, that was the one where you did not double check the math and cut the elements incorrectly, Right?
No. I did cut one wrong. I admitted it here. Then I did rebuilt it correctly and it worked. I think we even talked about it. BTW it was only the single active element so not a huge deal.

You must have forgotten that part.

It was an interesting experiment and example in case someone else wants to try building an antenna. Disappointing that you would use my sharing of those details here as a means to discredit what I'm saying now.

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post #9049 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 06:48 PM
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LOL. It's very clear that you obviously don't get the point.

I said that I can't easily receive WCEE-LP 16.1. I was told that I could. The party who said this was wrong. Where is your criticism of that?

So I'll ask you the same question that I asked the last "expert" who weighed in. Please tell me which "cheap antenna" I can use to receive that station. Please include the costs of any required mounting. You can use either of.

those two TV Fool reports that I posted. I wait to hear the secret of this magic cheap antenna.

Oh yeah. Add in WKHY too since it's in the same direction. 2 years ago you told me that I wasn't supposed to receive it.

If you can't come up with an answer, then I'd say I know all that I need to know about it. I don't claim to be a professional or expert.
Yes I can give you an answer and I had to go thru my data when I drove the system out.There is dead spot for OTA reception in Huntersville @ W. Catawba and Sam Furr Rd. I am guessing you in an approximation close to that. You would either have to move ( very unlikely) 1/2 mile in either direction or bring an antenna up to 35'+ for a good HAAT.

There reason for the drive out was to see what OTA signals would affect the cable plant thru ingress if there was break or crack. By measuring the signal strength a determination was made to see how the OTA signal would interfere with a corresponding QAM frequency. I sent a copy several years ago to Bob and he worked with me to make accurate measurements.

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post #9050 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by blackcat6 View Post
LOL. It's very clear that you obviously don't get the point.

I said that I can't easily receive WCEE-LP 16.1. I was told that I could. The party who said this was wrong. Where is your criticism of that?

So I'll ask you the same question that I asked the last "expert" who weighed in. Please tell me which "cheap antenna" I can use to receive that station. Please include the costs of any required mounting. You can use either of those two TV Fool reports that I posted. I wait to hear the secret of this magic cheap antenna.

Oh yeah. Add in WKHY too since it's in the same direction. 2 years ago you told me that I wasn't supposed to receive it.

If you can't come up with an answer, then I'd say I know all that I need to know about it. I don't claim to be a professional or expert.
First you missed the point of my post, as you do most post pointed at you. You pick our one line and run with it, and it is normally not even what the subject was to start with.

Let me answer you question. First WCEE. They run a directional antenna with the major lobe pointed at 180 and 270 deg. With the limited power they have the point was to cover Chartotte. I am sure they, or I (WHKY) for that matter gave no thought to where you live when the antenna was picked for the site. We pick antennas for coverage of population. There is a lot of open area where you live.
As for WHKY. That antenna looks like a "figure 8" folded back on it's self some. Major lobes are 15 and 245 Deg. It was to cover Charlotte, and areas to the North of Charlotte. Let me give you a little lesson in running two transmitters, or more on the same channel. I can lock them together, but I have the same problem as if you drop 2 rocks in still water. When the rings from the rocks hit, they cancel each other. The nice thing is by moving phase relationship between the transmitters I can pick the point that this occurs. You will not be happy to note that the logical point that was picked is Lake Norman. It is the right distance, and the lake even sits a the right angle. Population is lower there than other places. About every 90 days (remember I talked about Summer to Winter things change) I sit just off of Slanting Bridge, and with a laptop and test equipment I move phase till minimum signal reached my non directional antenna sitting at around 20 feet off the road. WHKY was never intended for anyone in your area to ever look at the Charlotte site. The WHKY Charlotte antenna your direction has next to no power to reduce problems with the main site on Baker Mt that does have power that direction.
Looking at where you live, be glad you have any over the air reception. You are in a low spot (as you pointed out in your other post). You have a fair view to Dallas, but your look to the North Charlotte site is not good. As was pointed out to you location has everything to do with this. Same reason transmitter sites are picked. I would think with looking at the TV fool during the Analog days you saw a lot of ghost. What you will see now is good signal level, but will not decode.Still Ghost. Ok have at it.

Tom
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post #9051 of 9053 Old 11-18-2014, 11:12 PM
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.... As was pointed out to you location has everything to do with this. ....
Of course it does. It's what I said in the first place. g. i.e. WCEE is too weak for me to receive at my location.

Yet I was told that it was "easy" to receive WCEE in Huntersville because someone in Cornelius can. When I proved why I can't I was told that I couldn't possibly live in Huntersville. LOL Maybe you should redirect your criticism towards the party that said that, instead of trying to insult me.

No matter and I really have no interest in how you have the wires twisted at WHKY. I've said all along that I can't receive WCEE from my location with any reasonable effort. Since it sounds as if you agree with me, then I think we are done with the drama over WCEE.

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post #9052 of 9053 Old 11-19-2014, 04:07 AM
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"Yet I was told that it was "easy" to receive WCEE in Huntersville because someone in Cornelius can. When I proved why I can't I was told that I couldn't possibly live in Huntersville. LOL Maybe you should redirect your criticism towards the party that said that, instead of trying to insult me."

Yes I said it, 99% of Huntersville is able to get this station unfortunately you can not. Here are the challenges you present what providing data: You are not using a methodical, technical approach i.e doing some investigative work and finding why you have challenges with receiving signals. By plugging in some numbers of other addresses in a 2-mile radius close to your home you would see reception signals increase and use that information on the this forum correctly. I have only read from why this or that station does not come in your location. When you present challenges the only way to convey and resolve them is provide good data for someone to ingest and give good results. Not until I saw your TVfool results and looked at the numbers and compared them to multiple locations that I had to dig thru personal data to find out why you have extreme roll-off.

I would never just call Tom up if I not receiving his signals and say why isn't it working. Not without my tower Lat-Long. Height, Antenna type, and TS errors.etc.

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post #9053 of 9053 Old 11-19-2014, 01:30 PM
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Enough with the bickering, please. Keep it on topic or off the open forums. Don't wanna start blocking people off the thread.
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