What is this thing called HDTV anyway? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 07-25-2001, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
O.K. what is HDTV?
It's all about picture quality isn't it.
So why isn't quality part of the definition? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Or is it?
How's this for a definition:
The same as SDTV only with at least 300 percent more resolution yielding the same apparent image quality as 480P from 1/3 the viewing distance or less.
Uses either the 720P or 1080i broadcast standard.

Frank



Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 07-25-2001, 08:11 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I always thought "High Definition Television" captured the picture quality idea quite nicely.

------------------
"Better living thru modern, expensive electronics devices"
tm

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 07-26-2001, 07:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
woowoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: jeffersonville, indiana
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Actually it would be any resolution greater than 480i

Such as
720I
720p
1080i
1080p
etc.....
I agree the term is rather vague

------------------
Studio Broadcast Engineer
KET

Studio Broadcast Engineer
KET
woowoo is offline  
post #4 of 13 Old 07-26-2001, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
JimboG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Woowoo,

Anything greater than 480i? No way, we're not letting Fox off that easily! I certainly don't think 480p is HDTV. I personally wouldn't consider 720i to be HDTV, but that one is perhaps subject to debate.

~1,000,000+ pixels on screen seems like a decent definition to me.

Jim

------------------
Let me get this straight, this show is hi-def and 5.1, but my local affiliate makes it crappy NTSC and mono?!

Free over the air HDTV + Tivo HD + Netflix for Blu-ray and streaming = Bliss
JimboG is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 07-26-2001, 04:23 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Frank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Dept. of Offense
Posts: 5,194
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
The pixel argument is meaningless.
The only thing that matters is image quality!
A 480P transfer upconverted to 2 zillion pixels is still 480P no matter how you slice it.
If the standard calls for the same apparent image quality from 1/3 the distance then that really means something. A upconvert would not pass that test.

Frank

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
Frank is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 07-26-2001, 04:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tryg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Washington
Posts: 9,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
hey I'm with Frank.

The RCA DTC-100 upconverts everting to 540i, but I wouldn't consider that HD.

I've heard people even argue between 720p and 1080i. I can basically agree with this arguement as it goes something like this. "If it doesn't have more than 1000 lines of original vertical resolution it isn't HD". So basically post processing means nothing.

With an HTPC I can make 480i look almost as good as 720p. But it's soft. Unlike 1080i.

It's kind of like "Quality" you know it when you see it, but try to tell someone what it is.



------------------
Tryg Hoff

Screen Reviews

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tryg is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 07-26-2001, 08:11 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dean Roddey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 19,472
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Well, according to the standards that have been pretty widely accepted in the industry, its got to be 720p or 1080i to be called High Definition. Of course they are talking about the *signal*, not the content on that signal. But if its not from a master of at least that quality, I wouldn't call it high definition (with some wiggle room of course when you get anal and deal with high frequency filtering and whatnot.)


------------------
Dean Roddey
The Charmed Quark Controller
droddey@charmedquark.com
www.charmedquark.com

If it don't have a control port, don't buy it!

Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

Dean Roddey is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 07-27-2001, 06:36 AM
Advanced Member
 
woowoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: jeffersonville, indiana
Posts: 599
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Frank,
What you say makes sense
But how do we measure it?


------------------
Studio Broadcast Engineer
KET

Studio Broadcast Engineer
KET
woowoo is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 07-29-2001, 04:22 PM
 
wirehead_rick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Streamwood, IL
Posts: 444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by Tryg:
...The RCA DTC-100 upconverts everting to 540i...
FYI, the DTC100 only converts NTSC 480i to 540p - not 540i. All other HD content is up converted to 1080i (480p & 720p).

Rick



[This message has been edited by wirehead_rick (edited 07-29-2001).]
wirehead_rick is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 07-29-2001, 06:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 45,876
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
FYI, from the RCA web site re: DTC-100:

The HD Monitor output preserves the horizontal resolution of the broadcast, which for standard definition digital broadcasts may be up to 720 pixels per line and for high definition broadcasts may reach 1920 pixels per line. The vertical output of the HD Monitor output will be either 540p (progressive) or 1080i (interlaced) depending upon the input format. Specifically, both 720p and 1080i inputs are output as 1080i; all other formats are output as 540p.

And 480p isn't HDTV, either.

------------------
"Better living thru modern, expensive electronics devices"
tm

'Better Living Through Modern, Expensive, Electronic Devices'

Ken H is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 07-30-2001, 08:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Tryg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Washington
Posts: 9,743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 11
oops, my mistake. 540i 540p?

It all looks like crap on a 10' wide screen. Just give me 1080i....what's the big deal? and a processor and projector that can do 1080p http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Screen Reviews

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tryg is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 07-31-2001, 05:38 AM
hob
 
hob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Frank it's this old mans dream come true, to see a movie in the aspect I seen in the movie theatres only now I have that same view at home, where the popcorn and soda are much cheaper.http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Hob for Hobby
hob is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 07-31-2001, 01:02 PM
Member
 
Sarahlea's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Texas Gulf Coast
Posts: 180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hob, I agree. Although capital expenditures are high, long term savings from cheap concession prices balance out the financial equation.

Frank, I am not 100% convinced of your initial premise. Is HDTV all about picture quality? HDTV, as a complete concept (at least as it was packaged to me) includes widescreen aspects and 5.1 sound. Of course these concepts are not unique to HDTV and maybe that is why they are not part of your (and probably a lot of other AVS Forum members') definition. Unfortunately, if we truly held HDTV to my standard, ABC might be the HDTV standard bearer and not CBS and that just doesn't seem right, does it?

Sorry JimboG, I would put widescreen 480p with high quality 5.1 sound above or at least equal to 1080i without 5.1 sound (depending on the type of program) and certainly higher if the 1080i was not widescreen (no matter what the program).

I would propose as a definition:


"The same as SDTV only with at least 300 percent more resolution, yielding the same apparent image quality as 480P from a viewing screen that is three times as large at the same viewing distance, together with a viewing screen that is 1/3 wider than traditional television sets and includes at least four more discreet channels of sound.
Uses either the 720P or 1080i broadcast standard."



[This message has been edited by Sarahlea (edited 07-31-2001).]

"What we have here, is a failure to broadcast HDTV."
Sarahlea is offline  
Closed Thread Local HDTV Info and Reception

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off