Gainesville, FL - HDTV - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3461 Old 12-04-2006, 10:56 AM
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Commiecat I'm 100% with you, been saying the same thing all along.

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post #722 of 3461 Old 12-04-2006, 11:01 AM
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While is Cox is at least partly to blame for NBC, they can't show us a different Fox station and WOGX doesn't do HD. So it's WOGX to blame for the lack of Fox HD. I'd say there's zero chance of getting Fox HD by January.
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post #723 of 3461 Old 12-04-2006, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G8rfreak View Post

While is Cox is at least partly to blame for NBC, they can't show us a different Fox station and WOGX doesn't do HD. So it's WOGX to blame for the lack of Fox HD. I'd say there's zero chance of getting Fox HD by January.

Uhm, let's try to think more positively. If enough people complain, they have a month to get HD feed into town, via cable or OTA. There's certainly enough interest in North Central Florida to warrant it. They just need motivation.

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post #724 of 3461 Old 12-04-2006, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G8rfreak View Post

While is Cox is at least partly to blame for NBC, they can't show us a different Fox station and WOGX doesn't do HD. So it's WOGX to blame for the lack of Fox HD. I'd say there's zero chance of getting Fox HD by January.

Antennaweb.org says that WOGX has HD over-the-air so I'm sure that they could arrange something with Cox if both parties really cared about their customers and viewers.

I blame Cox mostly because I'm still bitter about the whole Cox/NBC fiasco in which Cox states something along the line of Hearst-Argyle holding their customers hostage when asking Cox to ante up for an HD feed. I'm well aware that there's blame to go around to all parties involved and the most frustrating part is that we're the ones that lose out.

Cable companies complain that the HD feeds require much more bandwidth and that it limits the amount of HD channels they can currently carry. The problem that I have (and I assume all customers have) is that the cable and satellite companies refuse to offer pay-per-channel service (a la carte). You can have all my bandwidth tied up in the dozens of channels that I'll never view - just give me a few more HD feeds.

You'd think that as the wealthiest nation we'd have an advantage when it comes to rolling out new technologies, but the real kicker is that it's all that wealth holding us back - the companies making money off the older technologies don't want to let it go. That's why your Internet isn't running over fiber right now and that's why our move to mandatory-HD gets pushed back year after year.

I just want to watch football in flippin' HD. Is that so much to ask? :P [/pout]

-commiecat
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post #725 of 3461 Old 12-04-2006, 02:04 PM
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You sure antennaweb says WOGX is in HD...and not "digital"? Digital does not mean HD.
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post #726 of 3461 Old 12-04-2006, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeBaGeL View Post

Yes, you can use an indoor antenna and should be able to pick up PBS HD, ABC HD, and CBS HD over the air. The antenna of choice for most is the Zenith Silver Sensor, which is available for $19.99 on Amazon.

You would then have a "mix" of cable and antenna channels, they're just on different inputs (just like when you switch to component 1 or whatever for a videogame system, you'd change inputs to your antenna to get the OTA channels).

Thanks for the info!!
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post #727 of 3461 Old 12-04-2006, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat View Post

Cable companies complain that the HD feeds require much more bandwidth and that it limits the amount of HD channels they can currently carry. The problem that I have (and I assume all customers have) is that the cable and satellite companies refuse to offer pay-per-channel service (a la carte). You can have all my bandwidth tied up in the dozens of channels that I'll never view - just give me a few more HD feeds.

-commiecat

Technically, a broadcast channel is 6 Mhz of bandwidth. A digital broadcast channel is also 6 Mhz of bandwidth.

HDTV is usually under 6 Hhz of bandwidth as most TV stations use some of that 6 Mhz for a second virtual channel. ie. WCJB's CW or WGFL's My Network.

The Home Shopping channel takes as much bandwidth as any HD channel would.
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post #728 of 3461 Old 12-05-2006, 06:28 AM
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WOGX is HD out of Orlando. However, the Ocala station is a repeater station and they only transmit that signal digitally .......... not HD to the Ocala/Gainesville area. What is worse is that Cox cable takes that signal and sends it via an analog signal to the Gainesville area.
It sucks
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post #729 of 3461 Old 12-05-2006, 06:54 AM
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Good info, kahleds. The Orlando Fox is WOFL and WOGX is a sister station. My understanding of how all the contracts work is that if for some reason WOGX were to burn to the ground, then Cox could carry the WOFL (HD) to Gainesville. I'm just saying...
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post #730 of 3461 Old 12-05-2006, 10:43 AM
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I wasn't aware that the WOGX in Ocala was just a digital repeater and didn't carry the HD signal. Thanks for that.

@Jim Shorts:

I'm speaking in terms of total throughput. Paraphrasing this article from Arstechnica, right now 2/3 of cable's bandwidth is tied up with analog channels. On top of that you have the cable companies feeding digital channels as well as HD digital channels - carrying both digital video and digital audio.

I'm saying that if customers weren't forced to carry 50+ analog channels that they probably don't need, by allowing us to select channels individually, then I'm assuming they'd have more available bandwidth for HD channels.

I did read that apparently one analog channel takes up as much space as three HD channels so I kinda misspoke when I said that HD feeds require more bandwidth. They require more total bandwidth for Cox but comparing 1:1 an HD channel only uses a third of the bandwidth as an analog channel.

Thanks again for all the input guys. Here's to hoping that we'll have plenty o' HD channels via Cox soon!

-commiecat
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post #731 of 3461 Old 12-05-2006, 11:07 AM
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I've been pretty disappointed in the HDTV experience so far locally. The OTA stations I get - CBS and ABC usually come in beautifully, but the problem is their closed captions are garbled most of the time and useless. I know it's not my TV or set up because PBS's closed captions are perfect every time. ABC and CBS must be passing the captions through wrong somehow.

I've also done research on DirecTV's HD receivers and read that they have a lot of problems displaying captions properly as well so I'm pretty much up a creek on that.

In all, it appears HDTV really isn't ready for those who need closed captioning in their programming. Am mulling whether I should just send my new HDTV back.

Ray
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post #732 of 3461 Old 12-05-2006, 04:38 PM
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I think I've decided to dump Cox and switch to Direct TV. I want to confirm some HD questions.

I purchased a cheap HD OTA antenna and was able to receive ABC, CW, PBS, CBS and Fox (SD) with no problem. I also called DirectTV and they said it would be no problem to have NBC HD via a Distant Network Service. Does that seem correct for SW Gainesville?

The pricing for a basic plan (total choice) and HD with a DVR and 2 other receivers appears to be about $62/month which is very similar to my current Cox plan. The Direct TV OTA antenna is $49 which appears to be the only startup cost I would pay. Again, does that sound right?

Does anyone know of any issues with using Series 1 and Series 2 Tivo's with Direct TV?

I'll also dump their cable modem service for DSL. The BS 3 Mbps/
384 Kbps plan fits my needs just fine. That will actually save me a couple of dollars per month.
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post #733 of 3461 Old 12-06-2006, 10:32 AM
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Did you ask them about Fox or CW in HD? I'm actually surprised that they'll give you NBC-HD. If they offered Fox and CW in HD too, I'd switch without hesitation.
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post #734 of 3461 Old 12-06-2006, 10:49 AM
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I didn't ask about the other networks. I really didn't get a good feeling that the sale rep knew what he was talking about regarding DNS. I'm hoping that I can get confirmation from someone in Gainesville as to wether NBC HD is available as a DNS. I figure that Fox HD is pretty much a lost cause as I can receive 51.1 OTA easily. There is no practical way for me to get NBC HD OTA.
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post #735 of 3461 Old 12-06-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kahleds View Post

WOGX is HD out of Orlando. However, the Ocala station is a repeater station and they only transmit that signal digitally

WOFL (Orlando Fox) and WOGX (Ocala Fox) are two different stations. The fact that they're both owned by News Corp and run out of the same building is irrelevant.
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post #736 of 3461 Old 12-06-2006, 02:01 PM
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You are completely mis-informed on many different points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat View Post

HD on Cox sucks and if it weren't for all the interference I'd seriously consider going to a dish.

What interference are you talking about?

Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat View Post

Since our CBS is a Jacksonville affiliate, we only get Jags games broadcast and the only Jags games worthy of CBS' HD feed are when they play the Colts.

WGFL is a Gainesville, not Jacksonville, station. The air Jags games because that is what CBS assigns them. The NFL has a lot of say when it comes to these issues.

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I wish I knew why both the local stations and the cable providers are dragging their asses and getting in such huge disputes over carrying HD signals.

Who's dragging their feet? What stations? All of Gainesville's local stations (WGFL, WCJB and WUFT) are in HD and on Cox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat View Post

As much as I'm hoping that Cox starts carrying FOX by January...

As already stated, it's out of Cox's hands.
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post #737 of 3461 Old 12-06-2006, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat View Post

Antennaweb.org says that WOGX has HD over-the-air

They do not broadcast in HD and that's the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commiecat View Post

That's why your Internet isn't running over fiber right now and that's why our move to mandatory-HD gets pushed back year after year.

There is no "mandatory HD".
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post #738 of 3461 Old 12-06-2006, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktoddk View Post

I didn't ask about the other networks. I really didn't get a good feeling that the sale rep knew what he was talking about regarding DNS. I'm hoping that I can get confirmation from someone in Gainesville as to wether NBC HD is available as a DNS. I figure that Fox HD is pretty much a lost cause as I can receive 51.1 OTA easily. There is no practical way for me to get NBC HD OTA.

I am pretty sure you can get NBC-HD as a distant network with D*. Used to be able to with E* as well, but with the lawsuit against them that is no more. None of the other networks are available as distants, only NBC-HD.

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post #739 of 3461 Old 12-07-2006, 09:32 AM
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Hi, I'm new to the group. Hopefully someone can answer the following question for me. purchased a Panasonic TH37PX60U a couple months ago. I receive the my HDTV OTA. It has a great picture.
My problem is that I have noticed that motion in a lot of the HDTV prime time shows are very jerky. Hard to watch. DVD's seem fine. Is this just the nature HDTV, the Panasonic, or is it our local broadcasters? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
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post #740 of 3461 Old 12-07-2006, 11:10 AM
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I have a Sony KDS-55A2000 a Philips PHDTV3 antenna, and don't see any lags or artifacts on CBS, ABC, or PBS. I also get captions just fine too, and other people have complained about that as well. CBS has been the best overall. Watched about 10 minutes of Letterman last night and you could see the dirt under his fingernails. It is scary the amount of detail that can be seen at 1080i.
I suspect your antenna or tuner may be the culprit.
Do you have Cox? Try having your TV autoscan for channels with Cox, you will find some local HD channels unscrambled in the 700's range. I still prefer the OTA feed though.
I even get 51.1 Fox Digital OTA better than the analog station, but alas it's in SD for now. I am only hoping that somehow either Cox or WOGX will decide to carry HD Fox in our area before the BCS games.

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post #741 of 3461 Old 12-07-2006, 01:04 PM
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I just e-mailed both WOGX and Cox and told them to get their act together and get the UF game in HD. I also mentioned to Cox (again) about wanting ESPN2 HD and ESPNU as well as my dissatisfaction with the whole NBC HD fiasco. Here was their response:

Thank you for your e-mail.

I hear your concerns and they have been noted. ESPN2 will be available
the 1st of the year 2007 if not sooner. There are no plans to add ESPNU
at this time, however I have forwarded your request for ESPNU to our
Marketing team for review. As of today, we have no current plans to air
the Florida game in HD on any other channel.

We hope that we have been able to provide you with the information you
requested. If we have not, or if we can be of any additional service
to
you, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Thank you.

Felecia

Cox Communications Online Customer Care Team


So it seems we will be getting ESPN2 HD finally (woohoo!) but no word on NBC and no plans for the Gators-Buckeyes in HD

Haven't heard back from WOGX yet.
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post #742 of 3461 Old 12-07-2006, 04:35 PM
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I guess I really am obsessed with HD. Unable to stand watching this game in SD, I just bought a ticked to the BCS Championship and am booking a ticket as we speak.

Damn you WOGX!

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post #743 of 3461 Old 12-07-2006, 07:54 PM
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Hey cwarner62,
Can you provide those email addresses so we can email as well? I am COMPLETELY dissatisfied with COX and will most likely switch to DirecTV in the next 3 months.

Does anyone have any audio issues (cuts in and out A LOT, but it does not happen with any of the other hd channels) with PBS HD through COX? I have been having these problems since April of this year.

I hope cox burns to the ground and ALL of their employes get necrotizing fasciitis. Seriously, that company is a phuqing joke and their employees and technicians are no smarter than the jam in my toe.

Someone said that the DirecTV package they were paying for was $62, is that before or after taxes????? Cuz if that's the case after taxes I'll switch now.

DOWN WITH COX, DOWN WITH COX....
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post #744 of 3461 Old 12-08-2006, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargule View Post

What interference are you talking about?

Umm...weather? Ever watched satellite in Florida during storm season? I also live in NE Gainesville and my property is chock full o' pine trees. So to answer your question; storm clouds and trees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargule View Post

WGFL is a Gainesville, not Jacksonville, station. The air Jags games because that is what CBS assigns them. The NFL has a lot of say when it comes to these issues.

I understand. I'm not here to argue semantics on the Internet across an AV forum. We get Jags games because that's our region and it drives me nuts, personally. It's even more frustrating because, like I said, the Jags games are seldom aired in HD. Bottom line is that I can't see the Fox games in HD because there is no signal here, I can't see the CBS games in HD unless it's JAX/IND and I can't see the Sunday night game because we don't get NBC in HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargule View Post

Who's dragging their feet? What stations? All of Gainesville's local stations (WGFL, WCJB and WUFT) are in HD and on Cox.

Were you here several months ago when, quite similar to the NBC deal, the ABC channel and Cox dragged their feet rolling out ABC-HD over cable? Look a few pages back in this very thread (around pages 11 and 12). ABC broadcast the Super Bowl OTA (the reason I got an antenna and joined this thread) but it wasn't carried by Cox. The response from WCJB blamed Cox. Response from Cox blamed WCJB. It was months before the matter was resolved. That, Nargule, is what I call dragging feet. I'm sure the same thing is going on as far as this area receiving NBC and FOX in HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargule View Post

As already stated, it's out of Cox's hands.

Yeah. I really trust was Cox says at this point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargule View Post

They do not broadcast in HD and that's the problem.

Thanks. Thanks for either not reading or ignoring my post where I said "I wasn't aware that the WOGX in Ocala was just a digital repeater and didn't carry the HD signal." Thanks for keeping your asshat on and pointing it out to me. Again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nargule View Post

There is no "mandatory HD".

Again, I'm not here to argue semantics. The context was the discussion that if cable didn't carry so many analog channels then they'd have the bandwidth to carry more digital channels. HD channels included. We have legislation stating that analog broadcasts cease by 2009 and, IIRC, it was pushed back several times before actually be signed this year.

Point of the post you chose to dissect is this; I like football. I like NCAA and NFL football and I like watching them in HD. Come Sunday, with Cox Cable, I cannot watch any NFL games in HD - exception being Jags playing Colts. I couldn't watch this past Super Bowl on cable (bought an antenna for it) and I won't be able to watch this year's BCS games on cable.

Please argue how Cox, the third-largest cable provider in the US with a net worth just more than $7B, cannot make the proper arrangements so that on Sunday we can watch a few NFL games in HD and come January we can watch the BCS games in HD. I don't know about you but this both baffles and aggravates me.

-commiecat
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post #745 of 3461 Old 12-08-2006, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telgar View Post

Hey cwarner62,
Can you provide those email addresses so we can email as well? I am COMPLETELY dissatisfied with COX and will most likely switch to DirecTV in the next 3 months.

Does anyone have any audio issues (cuts in and out A LOT, but it does not happen with any of the other hd channels) with PBS HD through COX? I have been having these problems since April of this year.

I hope cox burns to the ground and ALL of their employes get necrotizing fasciitis. Seriously, that company is a phuqing joke and their employees and technicians are no smarter than the jam in my toe.

Someone said that the DirecTV package they were paying for was $62, is that before or after taxes????? Cuz if that's the case after taxes I'll switch now.

DOWN WITH COX, DOWN WITH COX....

I hear ya! I had to goto their website and send a message through a form rather than e-mailing them directly. But at least I got a response back within the hour. (well I had the link here but this message board says I can't post a URL until I've made 5 posts). Goto their main Gainesville/Ocala page, click Contact Us at the bottom. Click on Cable TV and Telephone under Contact us by e-mail.

I would have switched to dish or directv a long time ago if I could just get the local channels in HD. CBS has a lot of the Gator football games plus March Madness. But if I don't get to watch the Gators play Ohio St next month in HD I'm going to be extremely pissed! I wanted to go out there but can't afford $1000 for a ticket on eBay plus airfare and stuff.
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post #746 of 3461 Old 12-08-2006, 10:38 AM
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For those who are interested in emailing cox the direct URL is https://www.cox.com/support/gainesvi...at/emailus.asp online.

The basic answer is though, that they are waiting on WOGX to give them HD due to contractual ties.

Edit: See their response below.

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post #747 of 3461 Old 12-08-2006, 01:01 PM
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Heya, I sent that email over to cox.
Everyone, go to the url and send it in!
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post #748 of 3461 Old 12-08-2006, 01:03 PM
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The $62/month I quoted was the estimated D* monthly charges before taxes. If you click the "Buy Now" link you can get the monthly and upfront estimate. I may have underestimated my up front fees. I need to figure out how to get the OTA and DNS channels to my non-HD Tivos.

I sent an email to Cox as well. Most of the shows I watch are NBC and I really want to see them in HD. I've started watching a lot of CBS shows, not because I like them, but because I like seeing them in HD.

I too see some of the jumpiness in some HD broadcasts. Any idea where the problem lies? I'm assuming it's not my TV, but I'm not assuming it's not the Cox provided DVR.

Uh and the Cox DVR sucks compared to a Tivo. I've read something about Cox switching to a Tivo based DVR. Anyone know anything about that.
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post #749 of 3461 Old 12-08-2006, 01:10 PM
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thanks for the reply ktoddk.

I don't have jumpiness but I can see when in a zoomed in image the picture blurs a bit with lots of movement but thats expected. I have a sony wega 51 rear proj.

In the analog channels and digital pay channels I noticed a lot of (what I would call picture poop). The analog channels are just horrible, my signal is through the roof they say... Anyway, I download most of the shows i watch (sci fi, tbs...) just cuz the quality is better from the rips provided from other parts of the nation.
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post #750 of 3461 Old 12-08-2006, 01:31 PM
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Cox's Reply:

Our Fox affiliate, WOGX, does not produce an HD signal. Their rights as
an affiliate guarantee them that no other Fox broadcaster can bring a
signal into this territory, therefore we have no means of acquiring a
Fox HD signal. The management at WOGX has predicted that an HD signal
should be available sometime in 2007; however, we have no other
information than that. It is also true that there is no satellite
service that currently offers a Fox signal available in this market.

WESH in Orlando denied us the right to carry their NBC HD signal unless
all Cox customers (even non-HD customers) paid a monthly charge to them.
We offered to put a system in place so HD customers could pay for the
WESH HD signal but that was rejected and their demand for all customers
to pay for an HD signal was unchanged. These are coercive tactics that
seek to financially penalize all customers for the sake of the HD
signal. We continue to negotiate with Hearst-Argyle, the parent company
of WESH, because we understand how important the availability of the HD
signal is for our HD customers.

It is important to note that we DO NOT charge you for HD programming. We
charge a monthly rental for the HD receiver but add no additional charge
for the programming itself. Even HBO and Showtime are available at no
additional charge to HD customers who subscribe to those pay channels.


So it sounds like our quarrel is with WOGX, not with Cox. But I've at least voiced it to Cox and maybe they can lean on WOGX to get a move on.

SA 8300HD PVR w/ SARA 1.88.19.1 Provider: Cox NCF.
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