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post #121 of 604 Old 03-18-2005, 06:01 AM
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Greetings, I haven't lurked for a few weeks and now I there's a Delaware thread to post my query. I'm looking at putting an antenna in my attic and can't determine whether I require a Yagi or flyswatter style to be able to pull the channels listed below. Additionally, do I need a pre-amplifier? My goal is to PIP football games in HD. After paging through the antenna thread, I think I need to 'upsize' whatever antenna I choose because it's going in the attic. I'd appreciate any advice you have to offer.

red - uhf WPPX-DT 61.1 PAX WILMINGTON DE 56° 23.5 31
red - uhf WPSG-DT 57.1 UPN PHILADELPHIA PA 56° 23.5 32
red - uhf WPVI-DT 6.1 ABC PHILADELPHIA PA 55° 23.3 64
red - uhf WPHL-DT 17.1 WB PHILADELPHIA PA 56° 23.5 54
red - uhf WYBE-DT 34.1 PBS PHILADELPHIA PA 56° 23.5 34
red - uhf KYW-DT 3.1 CBS PHILADELPHIA PA 55° 23.3 26
blue - uhf WHYY-DT 12.1 PBS WILMINGTON DE 55° 23.4 55
blue - uhf WTXF-DT 29.1 FOX PHILADELPHIA PA 53° 24.3 42
violet - uhf WCAU-DT 10.1 NBC PHILADELPHIA PA 56° 23.5 67
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post #122 of 604 Old 03-18-2005, 10:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chips Ahoy
Greetings, I haven't lurked for a few weeks and now I there's a Delaware thread to post my query. I'm looking at putting an antenna in my attic and can't determine whether I require a Yagi or flyswatter style to be able to pull the channels listed below. Additionally, do I need a pre-amplifier? My goal is to PIP football games in HD. After paging through the antenna thread, I think I need to 'upsize' whatever antenna I choose because it's going in the attic. I'd appreciate any advice you have to offer.

As much as I hate this answer, it's trial and error. I'm in Newark. I tried to get Philly with an external Yagi and preamp. Only got two channels. Truned to Baltimore. Picked up everything. Bought a CM 4228, supposedly the highest gain antenna out there. Hooked it up with the preamp and tried Philly again. It was worse. Turned to Baltimore, I lost a channel or two. Went back to the Yagi with preamp turned to Baltimore and stayed that way for a few years. ....until Comcast came out with their dual tuner DVR. My antenna is coming down this summer. At least my neighbors will be happy.
To answer your question, go to Radio Shack and pick up a Yagi. I would try it without the preamp first since it's easiliy accessible in the attic. Add it if you need to. If no good, take the antenna back. Get a CM antenna. Good luck.
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post #123 of 604 Old 03-18-2005, 11:33 AM
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At around 12:30 AM , my MOTO 6412 froze & rebooted. It seemed (possibly) that the audio dropout problem got a little better as I immediately switched to Letterman. Does anyone know if there was another fix last night, or am I just imagining something?

Chris Lowry
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post #124 of 604 Old 03-18-2005, 11:40 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chips Ahoy
I'm looking at putting an antenna in my attic and can't determine whether I require a Yagi or flyswatter style to be able to pull the channels listed below.

It really depends on your location. I'm near Pike Creek, and I get all but PBS and FOX with a silver sensor sitting on top of my TV. I also tried an amp - it made it worse, not better. I would think an outdoor antenna for me would allow me to get all the Philly channels - the 4228 isn't that bad looking. I was planning on putting one up until, as a previous poster mentioned, Comcast came out with the dual-tuner DVR.
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post #125 of 604 Old 03-18-2005, 11:54 AM
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It has been a while since I posted thinking that because things have improved a solution was at hand. Not so. My 2nd tuner CBS is as bad as ever and problems with ABC, NBC and PBS continue although not as severe. Today during the basketball tourney I noticed a problem with the FIRST tuner as well. So I called the tech whose # I have and who has been helpful (with info at least). I found out the following: 1) They know about the new problem with the FIRST tuner - it is unrelated to our long standing problem and is being "worked on" and 2) the 2nd tuner problem is still being "researched" with no solution at hand and this is important - because they have not continued to be inundated by our calls and e-mail they thought things were acceptable - at least to the point of not having it remain of the front burner (my words and impressions - not his). Soo.. we need to reassert ourselves if we expect any results in the near future. I have registered my concerns I hope the rest of you guys will do the same. Thanks.
Carl (the other one)
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post #126 of 604 Old 03-18-2005, 07:25 PM
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Thanks for the replies. I think I'll try either the RS
Cat #15-2151 Yagi for $39.99 or Lowes has the CM 3016 for $39.99. Any opinions on which one to use? or should I be looking at a larger (or smaller) antenna? To answer the question about my location, I'm just south of the Concord Mall off 202.

I'm not in a position to subscribe to Comcast or DirecTV HD services so I'll have to OTA for the short term.
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post #127 of 604 Old 03-19-2005, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Carl;

I haven't seen what you're seeing. Breakups on all but CBS are infrequent and although CBS still has dropouts, they are almost "livable".

Are others here starting to experience what Carl describes?

Carl Jones
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post #128 of 604 Old 03-19-2005, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Chips Ahoy;

Welcome!! Let us know how you make out. There's not alot of us in Delaware with antenna because we are like red headed step children for the Philly market and our Baltimore kin don't even know we exist!!.. Just kidding!

There ISN't alot of experience with antenna around here, so DO let us know how you make out.

Blackngold75;

You got reception with a SS in Pike Creek?? Wow...you must be in a sweet spot!

Carl Jones
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post #129 of 604 Old 03-19-2005, 04:18 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Carl Jones
Carl;

I haven't seen what you're seeing. Breakups on all but CBS are infrequent and although CBS still has dropouts, they are almost "livable".

Are others here starting to experience what Carl describes?

I haven't watched in the last couple of days (in-laws have invaded my house), but I haven't noticed excessive dropouts, either. I have noticed that CBS has dropouts on the first tuner, but as you say, is almost "livable".

To the other Carl's point of letting Comcast know we still have some problems, how exactly are we supposed to do that? My experience in calling or emailing is that I get a know-nothing response of "unplug your box, if that doesn't help, schedule a service call". Just seems like beating your head against the wall.

Dave
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post #130 of 604 Old 03-19-2005, 06:07 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Carl Jones
Carl;

I haven't seen what you're seeing. Breakups on all but CBS are infrequent and although CBS still has dropouts, they are almost "livable".

Are others here starting to experience what Carl describes?

Yeah, I'm seeing it too. We watched recordings from last Sunday, ABCHD - Boston Legal, and last Monday, CBSHD - Raymond and Two and a Half Man. CBS was worse and almost unwatchable, well, more like unlistenable. I think I can deal with the infrequent pixelation to a point, but the audio drop-outs are down right frustrating. I will be calling to register my complaint again, and getting another credit for this month.

Mike
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post #131 of 604 Old 03-19-2005, 04:40 PM
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I'm in Newark and I've been experiencing more problems with 2nd tuner breakup recently. Compared to how it was in the beginning, it's bearable, but I'd still like to get it perfect. The techs seem to have different ideas about what we're talking about and have said it's everything from a Headend problem to a Motorola problem to a signal problem. CBS seems to be getting worse, but I've got to admit, with the NCAA tourney on right now, I'm watching that live on t1 and there hasn't been a whole to I've felt like recording. I've been sending emails to Comcast 2x a week under the guise of being an update to what I've reported recently. Mostly getting stock replies.

Peace,
BJMoose
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post #132 of 604 Old 03-20-2005, 07:09 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chips Ahoy
Thanks for the replies. I think I'll try either the RS
Cat #15-2151 Yagi for $39.99 or Lowes has the CM 3016 for $39.99. Any opinions on which one to use? or should I be looking at a larger (or smaller) antenna? To answer the question about my location, I'm just south of the Concord Mall off 202.

Chips,

Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I live in Bear now moving late October but when I lived in Newark I was using a Samsung st-351 and this antenna.

http://www.qsystems-inc.com/htm/ant.htm

These are pictures of my antenna on my old house not a place to buy one.

If you look at the close up you can see that I'm useing a RS pre amp.

www.antennaweb.org has that location at 35 miles from the Phily towers and I was able to get all the channels I wanted and others that I filtered out.

ABC,NBC,CBS,PBS,FOX,UPN,WB,PAX all HD

Remember with uhf hight it very important. Good luck

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post #133 of 604 Old 03-21-2005, 06:01 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Carl Jones
Blackngold75;

You got reception with a SS in Pike Creek?? Wow...you must be in a sweet spot!

Maybe I just got lucky - I just moved my Samsung 360 (no more D*, but using for OTA) upstairs and connected an old Radio Shack amplified VHF/UHF indoor antenna to it. Scanning for digitals, I get all Philly locals except for WHYY 12. Although, I have difficulty locking onto Fox 29-1.

*** Replaced that RS antenna with my Silver Sensor, and am getting ALL Philly locals except 23- channels. Best guess I am about 35 miles from the towers.
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post #134 of 604 Old 03-22-2005, 10:40 AM
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Well like the rest of you I'm still having the same problem. So I called COMCAST and told them that the problem was still occurring.

They assured me that all area problems were corrected and that my problem must be in my house. I told him that was incorrect and that I knew of others in the area that were still having problems also.

He told me that I had to set up an appointment to have someone come out to my house to fix the problem.

This guy seemed less willing to cooperate. I hope this is not a sign of things to come.

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post #135 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 06:21 AM
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Seeing the posts of issues with Comcast's HD service is reinforcing my gut feeling that I should try to get OTA HD first. Hoping to get this all fitted over the Easter weekend and will report back on Monday.
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post #136 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 07:41 AM
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My only experience with Comcast's HD service is with the Moto 6412 HD DVR - and it has actually been really good. I have had few problems, and those that I did have were taken care of quickly. The biggest issue I had related to breakups were:

1: Bad signal (existing cable from the street had to be replaced)
2: Second-tuner breakups on all channels on the 6412 (had to have the box switched out).

Both problems were addressed in the same day/service call. Overall, the HD PQ is excellent, and there is a fair amount of HD content available - of course I would always like to see more. At $10/month, I think the HD DVR is a pretty good deal. I don't know what kind of non-DVR HD STB Comcast has or how well it performs.

With all that being said - if you have an OTA ATSC receiver, it's hard to beat "free" OTA HD!
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post #137 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 08:21 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chips Ahoy
Seeing the posts of issues with Comcast's HD service is reinforcing my gut feeling that I should try to get OTA HD first. Hoping to get this all fitted over the Easter weekend and will report back on Monday.

Please realize that OTA is not completely issue free either. You just can't complain to anyone when your are grabbing the signal for free out of thin air. (which by the way is totally cool)

Quote:


Originally posted by blackngold75
...if you have an OTA ATSC receiver, it's hard to beat "free" OTA HD!

While true their are no ongoing programming costs OTA HD is hardly free. I spent about $110 setting up my antenna and pre amp and My Samsung ST-351 was about $300.

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post #138 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 11:02 AM
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I recorded Boston Legal the other night. I got less than a dozen breakups during the hour long show. One was at a critical scene and totally missed the dialog out of Denny Crane's mouth...Denny Crane. So it's still happening.

PS. Two days ago, I removed my Yagi from the roof and the Dish...bitter sweet!
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post #139 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm still getting breakups too..drives me nuts!! I continue to call to "post my concerns".

Chips;

Do what works for you but don't let what we say here about Comcast sway you against them. Our breakups have been caused by Comcast switching some analog channels to digital, eventually they will be all digital. Although we are currently going through the "growing pains" of this move, it's actually good for us. The more switched to digital, the more bandwidth is eventually freed up for more HD...and we all want that. In some cases a switch of the box has fixed their problem. In still others, Comcast has come out & re-wired for them to get a better signal (they did that for me too awhile back). So as much as we might complain, I'm overall very pleased with their service & you'd have to pry that DVR out of my wife's cold dead hands. We rarely watch anything live anymore. But I'll continue to scream until these breakups are gone.

They have two other digital boxes that are not DVRs by the way, if you want digital without paying the $10. The 5800 & 6100. The only difference is the 6100 has firewire.

Hope that helps.

Carl Jones
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post #140 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 01:36 PM
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Well after some more calls I spoke to someone at COMCAST who understands our problem. He still would like me to keep my Saturday appointment but he said that he wants to send out a Lead Tech to make sure that everything is ok at my home.

What confuses him is that COMCAST has customers with the 6412 that say they don't have this problem. (video tiling with audio drop out).

I think it is more like they don't know they have this problem.

Now I will agree that this has improved but it is not completely resolved. Has anyone here had this problem completely resolved ?

I spoke to a friend of mine who has had a 6412 longer than I and told him how to use the swap feature to reveal this problem and he told me that it was happening to him also and how he thought it was funny that he never noticed it before.

I will post what happens during my appointment.

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post #141 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 01:51 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chips Ahoy
Seeing the posts of issues with Comcast's HD service is reinforcing my gut feeling that I should try to get OTA HD first. Hoping to get this all fitted over the Easter weekend and will report back on Monday.

Seeing you post made me think the problems we are are having is related to COMCASTS dual tuner DVR.

The single HD tuner that COMCAST uses doesn't have this problem. So if you are a COMCAST customer and are not tring to record HD then you can get their HD tuner and you should be ok.

Before I got their HD DVR I had Basic cable ($10.50) plus HD tuner ($7.95) that's only $18.45 per month.

I'm not sure what kind of OTA equipment you have or plan on getting but at that price it is hard to beat.

I originally setup my OTA stuff because for me UPN57 was a must because of Enterprise, but now that show has been cancelled so UPN57 is not a priority for me any more.

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post #142 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 03:50 PM
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Carl and quartrj,
I realize that most of the issues are growing pains and I'm not against using Comcast or DirecTV for HD service in the future. My sticking point is that I just purchased a new Mitsubishi DLP set with dual HD tuners as well as a cablecard slot. At the same time, I overloaded myself with information about which method gets me the best picture quality and it's stuck in my mind that OTA will be the best (if I can get OTA). Is that not the case? I also read a review about cablecard vs. STB HD picture quality and recall that the cablecard was superior. So, my feeble mind has the descending order of PQ to be OTA then cablecard then STB (cable or DirecTV). Please correct me if I am way off base here.
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post #143 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Read posts from other area like Philly. As I read it (don't know, haven't seen it myself) Cable & OTA are the same for HD, sat. is better for analog because they are digital. Cable offers the most HD.

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post #144 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quartrj;

Yeah, I wanted Enterprise too. Looks like you & I are about the only ones to watch it.

Carl Jones
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post #145 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quartrj;

Let us know about this "lead tech", I've been told that several times...no lead tech. They must be trained to tell us hard noses this to keep us calm!!

Carl Jones
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post #146 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 05:54 PM
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Yes, I too would like to know what a "lead tech" has to say about all this. I've had a total of 5 different techs out here (2 on the same day once), and I'm not sure any of them have a handle on the problem. They've been helpful, as have been the CSRs, but I still get the feeling nobody really knows what the story is with this second tuner thing. Some say it's the box, some say it's in the head end, some say it doesn't exist, some say they've never heard of it. I'm continuing to report to Comcast every other day or so, but it would sure be nice for someone from higher up in Comcast to admit that they know exactly what the problem is and that they are working on it. I agree with the others here that we need to just keep plugging away and reporting our problems.

Peace,
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post #147 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 05:59 PM
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I should add to my rant above that having had Ultimate TV (D*TV) for 3 years, I still think this DVR is better over all. I've got 2 6412s and they have been working flawlessly other than the 2nd tuner thing. And even that is much improved over what it was a month ago.

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post #148 of 604 Old 03-23-2005, 07:27 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chips Ahoy
... So, my feeble mind has the descending order of PQ to be OTA then cablecard then STB (cable or DirecTV). Please correct me if I am way off base here.

One of the beautiful things about HD, besides the picture, is that HD is HD regardless of where you get it. OTA HD, DirecTV HD, COMCAST HD are all the same when it comes to PQ. Either you get a HD signal or not. This is a major difference from analog. A weak anolog signal can look bad but you still get it. A weak HD signal won't look bad because you won't see anything at all. Once an HD signal is strong enought it will lock in and look perfect.

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post #149 of 604 Old 03-24-2005, 03:58 AM - Thread Starter
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I notice the Philly board is complaining about breakups on the 2nd. tuner. Interesting.

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post #150 of 604 Old 03-24-2005, 04:48 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by quartrj
While true their are no ongoing programming costs OTA HD is hardly free. I spent about $110 setting up my antenna and pre amp and My Samsung ST-351 was about $300.

That's why I put the "free" in quotes. There are no subscription costs, but somewhere along the line you 're paying something to get OTA.
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