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post #151 of 604 Old 03-24-2005, 06:32 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by quartrj
One of the beautiful things about HD, besides the picture, is that HD is HD regardless of where you get it. OTA HD, DirecTV HD, COMCAST HD are all the same when it comes to PQ. Either you get a HD signal or not. This is a major difference from analog. A weak anolog signal can look bad but you still get it. A weak HD signal won't look bad because you won't see anything at all. Once an HD signal is strong enought it will lock in and look perfect.

Is that really the case? Quotes like this tend to confuse the heck out of me ....
The other issue you run into is Directv tends to compress certain channels more then others due to lack of bandwidth. This issue should be resolved with the upcoming sat launches this year and in 2007 which will give them a lot more capacity.

You'll find your best PQ on your network channels being picked up OTA, they usually always broadcast at full bandwidth with no compression, it's just a matter of watching programming that's actually HD. You can check a site like titantv.com to determine what programming should be in HD or not.

Personally I get all the channels you do on Directv and Discovery is probably the best one to show off PQ with. For the networks, it's a toss up, I receive ABS, CBS, NBC, PBS, FOX and the WB OTA and they all have great PQ on HD programming.


I pulled this from here and found many similar threads on the topic. Does Comcast compress channels as well? If not, I'd opt for their HD service over DirecTV's it OTA doesn't work out.
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post #152 of 604 Old 03-24-2005, 08:50 AM
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Chips,

All that compression talk refers to Non HD programming. I guess the real issue is if the different HD providers are offering a real HD signal or not. I have not heard of anyone that says they offer HD services that is not providing a real HD signal.

Your HD equipment is expecting to receive information adhearing to a very specific standard. I suppose that there could be cheating going on but I have not heard of anything like that.

I have viewed HD signals from OTA, DitecTV and COMCAST on my HD set and I have not seen a difference in PQ. They all look great and they all have their own issues regarding signal delivery.

We are on the leading edge of this technology and have to understand that we may not always be happy all the time.

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post #153 of 604 Old 03-24-2005, 08:53 AM
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I think it depends on your monitor, and also how well-trained your eyes might be. I have compared the same channels from D*, Comcast, and OTA such as CBS, NBC, and DiscoveryHD. I have not been able to see a real difference between them. The differences I see are mostly due to the content. Most of the pre-produced network HD shows pale in comparison to HD content on DiscoveryHD, INHD, HDNet, etc., in my opinion.
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post #154 of 604 Old 03-24-2005, 12:17 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by blackngold75
I think it depends on your monitor, and also how well-trained your eyes might be. I have compared the same channels from D*, Comcast, and OTA such as CBS, NBC, and DiscoveryHD. I have not been able to see a real difference between them. The differences I see are mostly due to the content. Most of the pre-produced network HD shows pale in comparison to HD content on DiscoveryHD, INHD, HDNet, etc., in my opinion.

Yes this is correct your monitor has a lot to do with PQ for sure. Also as you mentioned if the content is not HD even though you are watching it on an HD broadcast channel the PQ suffers.

This is true regardless of who your provider is, if NBC broadcasts a SD show over their HD channel you will be watching an SD show weather you use OTA, DirecTV, or COMCAST.

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post #155 of 604 Old 03-25-2005, 05:57 AM
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It seems I won't be installing an antenna in the attic after all. In discussing weekend plans with the boss, she mentioned something about her home pc not connecting to the Internet. It jogged my memory that I subscribe to Comcast Basic cable to get their Internet service. Rereading quartrj's earlier post,
Quote:


...Before I got their HD DVR I had Basic cable ($10.50) plus HD tuner ($7.95) that's only $18.45 per month.

it clicked that I have built-in HD tuners in my TV. Since I did not have cable service running to any TVs, I grabbed an old bundle of RG59 and ran it from the splitter at the service entrance (which happened to have one empty slot) to the ANT-1 of Mitsubishi TV. I ran a channel scan and found the following digital channels:

79.3 NJN
79.5 CSPAN
79.8 TV Guide
79.9 WEATHER
81.5 DISNEY
82.1 CSPAN
82.2 CSPAN
88.1 GSN
88.9 ESPN
89.8 SPEED
89.11 ESPN Classics
91.11 G4
93.21 -> 94.28 Music
101.21 -> 102.23 Music
103.1 InHD
103.21 -> 103.31 Music
104.1 InHD2
111.1 WB17
111.2 FOX29
114.2 PCN
119.1 WHYY in 4:3
119.2 CBS (KYW)

I watched part of a sitcom on FOX and the NCAA tournament in HD last night and was impressed with the sound and PQ. This weekend's project will be properly running an RG6 cable from the Comcast service entrance to my TV and splitting the signal into my second built-in tuner. It didn't pick up HDNet, ABC or NBC. Anyone know where I can find them or should I run another scan (which took about 20 minutes)? If I interpreted some other posts correctly, these channels move about and I'll have to re-scan fairly regularly; is that correct?
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post #156 of 604 Old 03-26-2005, 08:55 PM
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Well the Lead Tech stopped by my home today. All I can say is that he was a COMCAST employee not a consultant. He was not able to fix the 2nd tuner problem.

He replaced all of the splitters and cable connectors at my home. He did admit the there was a problem but said that usually what he did would fix it.

The only thing he didn't do was replace the 6412 box. He brought one into my home but never did anything with it.

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post #157 of 604 Old 03-28-2005, 03:40 PM
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Does anyone have any idea what Comcast knows or doesn't know about this problem? What if anything are they planning on doing to rectify it?

Chris Lowry
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post #158 of 604 Old 03-29-2005, 06:35 AM
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The engineer at COMCAST that I spoke to said that they know of this problem but they do not as of yet know what is causing the problem.

He made it sound as if they were working to determine the cause.

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post #159 of 604 Old 03-30-2005, 08:05 AM
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I'm in New Castle County DE and recently got a dual-tuner DVR. I've seen the 2nd tuner problem that everyone has been talking about, however

Last night..

I recorded two HD shows simultaneously last night on Fox and NBC, and there were NO dropouts of any kind.

I hope this continues...
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post #160 of 604 Old 03-30-2005, 10:00 AM
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I wish I lived up north like you guys. I live just south of Milford, DE and have not been able to get much at all with an OTA antenna. I have a Radio Shack cheapo in the attic and get Salisbury and Seaford fine. I sometimes get KYW3 out of Philly and a few analog stations out of Baltimore but that's it. I went out and invetsed in a CM 4248 because I had read it was good and couldn't get as much on it as I did the RS antenna. It was very disappointing. I guess it is trial and error with these things and I will keep trying. Just wanted to drop a line in here. I got excited when I saw a DE thread.
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post #161 of 604 Old 03-30-2005, 10:48 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by nicodermcq
I'm in New Castle County DE and recently got a dual-tuner DVR. I've seen the 2nd tuner problem that everyone has been talking about, however

Last night..

I recorded two HD shows simultaneously last night on Fox and NBC, and there were NO dropouts of any kind.

I hope this continues...

I hope your right but ... Fox has not been a problem on tuner 2. So, if your NBC recorded on tuner 1 and the Fox show on tuner 2, you wouldn't see it.

Dave
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post #162 of 604 Old 03-30-2005, 02:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by suthrn
I wish I lived up north like you guys. I live just south of Milford, DE and have not been able to get much at all with an OTA antenna. I have a Radio Shack cheapo in the attic and get Salisbury and Seaford fine. I sometimes get KYW3 out of Philly and a few analog stations out of Baltimore but that's it. I went out and invetsed in a CM 4248 because I had read it was good and couldn't get as much on it as I did the RS antenna. It was very disappointing. I guess it is trial and error with these things and I will keep trying. Just wanted to drop a line in here. I got excited when I saw a DE thread.

Check out www.antennaweb.org you can put in your zipcode and it will tell you what is available and what kind of antenna to use. Remember now most OTA HD in our area is in the UHF band so those big VHF antennas wont help at all.

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post #163 of 604 Old 03-31-2005, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by suthrn
I wish I lived up north like you guys. I live just south of Milford, DE and have not been able to get much at all with an OTA antenna. I have a Radio Shack cheapo in the attic and get Salisbury and Seaford fine. I sometimes get KYW3 out of Philly and a few analog stations out of Baltimore but that's it. I went out and invetsed in a CM 4248 because I had read it was good and couldn't get as much on it as I did the RS antenna. It was very disappointing. I guess it is trial and error with these things and I will keep trying. Just wanted to drop a line in here. I got excited when I saw a DE thread.

Welcome to the Delaware thread. Keep us posted on your progress in Milford. Most of the posters here are Northern Delaware so hopefully your experience will help our Southern neighbors AND get more from Southern Delaware involved here.

For all: I still talk to Comcast about our breakup issues to "keep them informed". Enough of us are calling or writing so that responses now are more "we know & we're working on it." vs. "this is the first I've heard of it". Issues ARE improved but there remains enough to make watching HD frustrating at times.

On another note; I see in the Philly thread there is talk of TNT & UPN HD coming soon!! THAT would be very good news (although now that Enterprise is going away...) for us. It's been awhile now since they've added HD channels.

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post #164 of 604 Old 03-31-2005, 10:15 AM
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UPN is a DONE deal. Should be on soon.

Louder is NOT better!
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post #165 of 604 Old 03-31-2005, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Was the ~ 60 days for TNT?

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post #166 of 604 Old 03-31-2005, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I also failed to mention, JWhip says that UPN will be channel 236.

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post #167 of 604 Old 04-04-2005, 02:08 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Chips Ahoy
I ran a channel scan and found the following digital channels:

79.3 NJN
79.5 CSPAN
79.8 TV Guide
79.9 WEATHER
81.5 DISNEY
82.1 CSPAN
82.2 CSPAN
88.1 GSN
88.9 ESPN
89.8 SPEED
89.11 ESPN Classics
91.11 G4
93.21 -> 94.28 Music
101.21 -> 102.23 Music
103.1 InHD
103.21 -> 103.31 Music
104.1 InHD2
111.1 WB17
111.2 FOX29
114.2 PCN
119.1 WHYY in 4:3
119.2 CBS (KYW)


Hi there. I'm new to the AVS side of the board, but have been a member of the tivo side for a few years now, with a post now and then.

Anyway I have 2 PCI hdtv cards in 2 systems, one is an air2pc, and the other a pchdtv hd3000. Last night I gave some new drivers a try for the hd3000, and spent way to long recording some brief streams and checking them out. To my surprise I was able to recieve quite a few channels, though a lot with varying quality. about 3/5 would not have audo when I played the stream, but this might be me not selecting the correct audio stream. And the HD channels I could get came with a lot of packet loss. I'll add to the above QAM channel list for the boards reference below. I was wondering what peoples experiences are tuning comcast with QAM in the New Castle Area. Do channels appear and disappear often? Are you able to recieve the HD channels cleanly? Is the packet loss most likely a signal quality issue?

Thanks for any insights. (for reference the house has comcast extended basic, not digital services)

Here is a listing of the channels I tuned ( including the ones listed previously, ? mark means I couldn't figure out what it was):

79-1 Comcast
79-2 ?
79-3 NJN
79-4 ?
79-5 CSPAN
79-6 WTVE
79-7 leased?
79-8 TV Guide
79-9 TWC
79-10 N/A
79-11 Music
79-12 WYBE
80-1 KYW - STD
80-2 WPVI - STD
80-3 WCAU - STD
80-4 WHYY - STD
80-5 17 - STD
80-6 Fox 29 - STD
80-8 UPN 57 - STD
80-10 UniVision
80-11 ch69
80-12 CN8
81-2 Cartoon Network
81-3 Comedy Central
81-4 MTV
81-5 Disney
81-6 Nickalodeon
81-7 SciFi
81-8 AMC
81-9 Discovery
81-10 TLC
81-11 vh1
81-12 USA
82-1 CSPAN3
82-2 CSPAN2
82-3 Animal Planet
82-5 Hallmark
82-7 CNN
82-8 Golf
82-9 HSN
82-10 QVC
82-12 CNN HLN
84-2 Movies? - had American Wedding playing
84-4 Movies? - had some black and white feature playing
85-4 Movies? - had Big Fish playing
87-1 FX
87-4 A&E
87-5 CMT
87-7 CourtTV
87-8 ? INSP
87-12 ?
88-1 GSN
88-2 MSNBC
88-3 TVland
88-4 CNBC
88-5 TCM
88-6 Style
88-7 FNC
88-9 ESPN
88-10 ESPN2
88-11 TBS
88-12 CSN-P
89-1 ?
89-2 Bravo
89-3 HGTV
89-4 E
89-6 Food
89-7 Lifetime
89-8 Speed
89-9 ACN Jewlery TV
89-11 ESPN Classic
89-12 OLN
90-11 On Demand Prev
90-12 On Demand Prev
90-21 > 24 Music
91-1>10 On Demand Prev
91-11 G4TV
91-12 NBA?
91-21>24 Music
103-1 INHD
103-21-31 Music
104-1 INHD 2
111-1 Ch 17 HD
111-2 FOX HD
118-1 WPVI - HD
118-2 WCAU-HD
118-3 leased?
118-4 WPVI-WX
118-5 WCAU-WX
119-1 WHYY-HD
119-2 KYW-HD
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post #168 of 604 Old 04-06-2005, 12:09 PM
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Well I had another COMCAST Tech at my house this past Saturday. All that he did was take some readings and agreed that the problem still exists.

He told me that my service sheet was going in a pile of other service sheets until they had enough to prove to Motorolla that the 6412 has a problem with its 2nd tuner.

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post #169 of 604 Old 04-06-2005, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quartrj;

Glad to see your post, I'm still having the problem as well.

How about others in Delaware? This thread has been relatively quiet. Are you still having 2nd. tuner problems?

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post #170 of 604 Old 04-06-2005, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry Quartrj, didn't mean to imply I was glad to see you were still having problems.....

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post #171 of 604 Old 04-06-2005, 04:11 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by quartrj

He told me that my service sheet was going in a pile of other service sheets until they had enough to prove to Motorolla that the 6412 has a problem with its 2nd tuner.

I find it interesting that now the blame is being placed on the 6412. Two months ago, the 2nd tuner was rock solid. All channels were near perfect. I thought the 6412 was a god send. Comcast starts digital simulcasting, the second tuner goes on the fritz, and it's the box's problem?

By the way, Carl, I'm still seeing the problem. It probably quiet because everyone is tired of complaining. Any word from the technician that was knowledgable about the issue?

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post #172 of 604 Old 04-06-2005, 06:33 PM
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Just to confirm - I am still having the same problem with CBS (mostly) and the other major networks (to a lesser extent) with the exception of Fox. I still keep the CSR and tech informed of the problem at least weekly.
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post #173 of 604 Old 04-06-2005, 06:55 PM
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I was thinking this thread was dead and that folks had just given up on the problem. I've still been experiencing the same 2nd tuner stuff and I've continued emailing and calling Comcast. Emails have gotten no replies and phone calls have brought no joy. But I have to share what happened tonight.

I called Comcast about another situation that I wanted info about. I'm trading in my DLP for an LCD TV because of rainbows. The LCD has cablecard capabilities and a built in HD tuner. So I wanted to see if I could get a cablecard in addition to the 6412 so I could record on tuner 1 and not have to watch the choppy tuner 2. I would be able get a supposedly better picture from the cablecard tuner as opposed to going through the box. I was only asking if Comcast would allow both on the same TV without charging extra for the service. Imagine my surprise when the CSR (Lisa) told me they wouldn't work together (I knew they would because they'd be hooked to different inputs...just surprised she didn't know that). After checking with a headend tech, she told me I could do it, but get this...Comast would charge me an additional 14.95 a month for the card (that's 4.95 more than the dual tuner DVR). After a good laugh, I think Lisa agreed with me that Comcast of New Castle County (even though they have to provide the card by directive) doesn't really want to deal with them. She said even if I bought one elsewhere, Comcast wouldn't turn it on or support it. So much for that idea.

Next, Lisa swears that there has been no sumilcasting of any analog channels in Delaware. When I asked about all those channels that now show DD on the info line and that all of a sudden they appear just as clear as digital channels, she said they're not digital. Hmmm!

Anyway, our conversation got around to the 2nd tuner problem and she said that she wasn't experiencing that problem and that apparantly every tech we've spoken to has misinterpreted what we've been talking about as the freezing problem that was fixed by the software upgrade patch. When I told her about the number of times we've all explained this 2nd tuner thing to CSRs and Techs, she basically said they all have been thinking we've been talking about something else. I couldn't convince her that folks at comcast acknowledged this as a headend problem, even though something they did on their end did make an improvement.

While I was on the line, she contacted a tech at the headend and it appeared that nobody really knew about this and the tech said s/he will contact Motorola with my description because it is a problem on their end. She guarranteed me I would receive a follow-up call once they've determined what's wrong. I did tell her I would hold my breath waiting. I know they're going to want to send another tech out, but unless it's a Motorola tech, I don't think I'm going to waste anymore time on my days off concerning this problem. I'm getting tired of telling the whole story from scratch and hearing the shock and surprise of the techs and CSRs.

Just thought I'd share this story. If anything does happen, I'll continue to keep you informed.

Peace,
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post #174 of 604 Old 04-06-2005, 07:29 PM
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My wife set up to record "Desperate Housewives" Sunday night while we were away - noticed several video and audio breakups. Since the box had been "off" prior to the recording, I assume it was also the 2nd tuner problem. However, watching AI at the moment on the second tuner, and am having no problems whatsoever.
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post #175 of 604 Old 04-07-2005, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Good to hear from you folks again. Please send an e-mail to this address if you haven't done so already & KEEP sending at least weekly if you can;
ecare-NewCastle@comcast.com

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post #176 of 604 Old 04-07-2005, 06:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by blackngold75
My wife set up to record "Desperate Housewives" Sunday night while we were away - noticed several video and audio breakups. Since the box had been "off" prior to the recording, I assume it was also the 2nd tuner problem. However, watching AI at the moment on the second tuner, and am having no problems whatsoever.

I noticed that in recording Lost last night (ABC) on the second tuner and while watching it later, about 40 minutes went by before the first drop out appeared and although I know ABC is not as bad as CBS that length of time was unusual. My point is that when we test these things now don't assume because the service looks good for 5 minutes or so that it is necessarily fixed. CBS is still more frequent than the others but a bit better than the really bad period of a couple weeks ago. I'll make my weekly calls today.
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post #177 of 604 Old 04-07-2005, 11:31 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by wrighda
I find it interesting that now the blame is being placed on the 6412. Two months ago, the 2nd tuner was rock solid. All channels were near perfect. I thought the 6412 was a god send. Comcast starts digital simulcasting, the second tuner goes on the fritz, and it's the box's problem?

The Engineer I spoke to at COMCAST told me that in order to do the digital simulcasts they had to move the HD stuff to different QAMs. He told me that some QAMs are more difficult to work with than others.

Perhaps when the 6412 worked well the HD stuff was on a less picky QAM and COMCAST feels that they should be able to move this stuff around with out worring if the 6412 can handle it.

Perhaps it was just a bunch of bull but this is what I was told.

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post #178 of 604 Old 04-07-2005, 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Carl Jones
Sorry Quartrj, didn't mean to imply I was glad to see you were still having problems.....

No worries mate

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post #179 of 604 Old 04-07-2005, 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by quartrj
Perhaps it was just a bunch of bull but this is what I was told.

Hi Quartrj,

I don't know whom to believe anymore. I've spoken to engineers, techs, and CSRs and all of them swear that their answer is the truth...and yet, so often they disagree with one another. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that the individuals I've dealt with are trying to help, and they think that what they're saying is accurate, but I've gotten so many mixed messages that it's driving me nuts.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I'm awaiting a call back from someone at Comcast who is dealing directly with Motorola (at least that's what I was told). If she schedules a visit by anyone other than a Motorola tech, I'm going to decline. Can't waste anymore time re-explaining myself.

Peace,
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post #180 of 604 Old 04-07-2005, 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by quartrj
The Engineer I spoke to at COMCAST told me that in order to do the digital simulcasts they had to move the HD stuff to different QAMs. He told me that some QAMs are more difficult to work with than others.

Perhaps when the 6412 worked well the HD stuff was on a less picky QAM and COMCAST feels that they should be able to move this stuff around with out worring if the 6412 can handle it.

Perhaps it was just a bunch of bull but this is what I was told.

Actually, this sounds believable. What I don't understand is why they couldn't switch the QAMs back to where they were before. Hold off on the digital simulcast until they can fix the problem. Since they haven't been telling anyone about the simulcast, who would miss it if it went away?

Dave
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