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Old 01-22-2011, 02:54 PM
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Any of you using a Hauppage tuner and Windows Media Center? Ever since KTXA switched, I get nothing. I've deleted all my channels and re-scanned in WMC. WMC shows KTXA at virtual 21.1 but at zero signal strength. I don't know how to check what actual channel WMC thinks the virtual 21.1 maps to.

Can anyone give me a hand?

FWIW I'm in Addison
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreck58 View Post

Everyone good since RF-18 went off?

Yep just had to lose 21/RF-18 so it could keep going to find the new 21/RF-29.

After the scan I receive 71 digital channels, and one analog on Ch 6.
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Old 01-22-2011, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhound View Post

Any of you using a Hauppage tuner and Windows Media Center? Ever since KTXA switched, I get nothing. I've deleted all my channels and re-scanned in WMC. WMC shows KTXA at virtual 21.1 but at zero signal strength. I don't know how to check what actual channel WMC thinks the virtual 21.1 maps to.

Can anyone give me a hand?

FWIW I'm in Addison

Update, I confirmed the mapping was still to channel 18. I figured out how to map the channel to 29, but I have no signal strength. I used to get good signal strength when KTXA was on Channel 18. Did the geographic location of the tower change significantly?
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Old 01-22-2011, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhound View Post

Did the geographic location of the tower change significantly?

There was no change in location when the move was made from RF-18 to RF-29. In fact, the only change was that the new KTXA antenna is top-mounted on the candelabra, thus raising the point of transmission from about 1440' HAAT to 1751'.

So, KTXA is both more powerful (255 kW before and now 1000 kW) and at a higher elevation (about 300' more).

Use Google Maps to see the tower at 1733 Tar Road in Cedar Hill, TX.
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Old 01-22-2011, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiFi Pete View Post

The old RF 18 was a stronger signal on both TV's I have, and as you stated (thanks for the reply on the KTXA site) may be due to the new signal quality, not raw power.

Another station in the market that has a strong signal but mediocre signal quality is KERA on RF-14. On a couple of consumer devices (Sylvania television and a Digital Stream DTX-9950 CECB), the signal meter maxes out at a mere 77%. Yet some of the little low power stations out at Cedar Hill peg the meter because they have good MERs.

But when looking under the hood with the signal analyzer, KERA is a among the top 4 in terms of raw power strength. Last time I checked, Sony Bravia televisions are among those that display more sophisticated diagnostics, revealing separate values for signal strengh (sheer power) and SNR (for signal quality).
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreck58 View Post

As of last night, I now pull in 64 channels (and subs) on my tuner. Is that pretty close to what you all get?

(I'm at about Preston rd and Beltline about 30 miles from the antenna farm with an attic antenna)

I have 68 DTV subchannels from DFW, which should increase back to 72 when KPFW returns. (I'm not counting KZFW/6 analog or KXII.)

But that includes 11.1 on both RF 11 and RF 19. If your tuner only stores one channel for 11.1, I expect you'd see 67.
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhound View Post

Update, I confirmed the mapping was still to channel 18. I figured out how to map the channel to 29, but I have no signal strength. I used to get good signal strength when KTXA was on Channel 18. Did the geographic location of the tower change significantly?

hi otterhound..i'm in the same boat and i'm not getting the new KTXA signal either...I dug up my original Hauppage software CD and installed the Hauppage "WinTv" application. When I scanned with WinTv, it actually found KTXA and I was able to get a picture. Not a perfect solution, but in my case it will at least work for Mavs games until I get the windoze media center crap sorted out

on a side note, how do you go about re-mapping the channel in win. media center?
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Old 01-23-2011, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

Another station in the market that has a strong signal but mediocre signal quality is KERA on RF-14. On a couple of consumer devices (Sylvania television and a Digital Stream DTX-9950 CECB), the signal meter maxes out at a mere 77%. Yet some of the little low power stations out at Cedar Hill peg the meter because they have good MERs.

But when looking under the hood with the signal analyzer, KERA is a among the top 4 in terms of raw power strength. Last time I checked, Sony Bravia televisions are among those that display more sophisticated diagnostics, revealing separate values for signal strengh (sheer power) and SNR (for signal quality).

Normally, when signal is strong but quality is low, the first suspect is the VSB filter, since envelope distortion makes it difficult to recover the trellis coding properly. This is a common problem for stations at band edges, such as 14, which have to avoid interference into other services, rather than the less critical adjacent-channel ATSC interference. I can't see why that would be the case on 29, though.

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Old 01-23-2011, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheer Lunacy View Post

Normally, when signal is strong but quality is low, the first suspect is the VSB filter, since envelope distortion makes it difficult to recover the trellis coding properly. This is a common problem for stations at band edges, such as 14, which have to avoid interference into other services, rather than the less critical adjacent-channel ATSC interference. I can't see why that would be the case on 29, though.

Concerning RF-14 and the filtering they must do, here's a capture of KERA's waveform from the Sencore's spectrum screen. Although it appears nice and flat and I can't see anything egregious on the adjacent frequency edges, would there ordinarily be something odd visible in waveform?

For comparison, I've also included KTVT's RF-19 waveform, which uses the same antenna (through a combiner) as does KERA. The lower adjacent channel, of course, what was KXTA until a few days ago on RF-18. KTVT has a superb MER compared to its antenna mate, KERA.
LL
LL
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:53 PM
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In my case, it wasn't until the DTV transition occurred until I gave a hoot about television RF. In spite of my (radio) broadcasting background, I scarcely knew what a television antenna was until 12 JUN 2009. So I'm still somewhat of a novice and have my moments of cluelessness.

But still...I think that even with my limited knowledge, I'd like to think I wouldn't draw this conclusion from KTXA's recent channel change and power increase:

Quote:


Since you've boosted your power, you've eliminated all free reception of any television signals in the area near Keller Springs and the Dallas North Tollway. I now receive ZERO CHANNELS due to your good work. My television is now just a monitor for my DVD player. I needed to give up watching television anyway.

Thank you,
CalvinNDallas
January 23, 2011 at 7:44 pm

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/01/04/t...gnal-strength/

But then again, maybe he's right after all? :-)
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

In my case, it wasn't until the DTV transition occurred until I gave a hoot about television RF. In spite of my (radio) broadcasting background, I scarcely knew what a television antenna was until 12 JUN 2009. So I'm still somewhat of a novice and have my moments of cluelessness.

But still...I think that even with my limited knowledge, I'd like to think I wouldn't draw this conclusion from KTXA's recent channel change and power increase:



But then again, maybe he's right after all? :-)

How is switching one station gonna kill all of his off? Maybe he needs a new antenna.

Forecaster for Decatur, Texas Storm Team
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:03 PM
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I'd guess it's just an unfortunate coincidence. His tuner (or an antenna amp or something) died last Friday, and he blames KTXA for it because they switched at about the same time.

It's amazing the conclusions folks will draw before they consider the possibility of mere coincidence!

OTOH, it would set my mind at ease if others in Carrollton are receiving OTA TV fine....
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I'd guess it's just an unfortunate coincidence. His tuner (or an antenna amp or something) died last Friday, and he blames KTXA for it because they switched at about the same time.

It's amazing the conclusions folks will draw before they consider the possibility of mere coincidence!

OTOH, it would set my mind at ease if others in Carrollton are receiving OTA TV fine....

Herbon and Old Denton Rd in Carrollton...........I have the channel without any issues.
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:37 PM
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In principle, that slight increase in overall power could overload an amplified front end being used by somebody in Cedar Hill who was blaming his already-marginal reception on insufficient signal power, not having bothered to look out his window, but that's highly unlikely. That it would have that effect in Carrollton? "Preposterous" is the only word.

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Old 01-25-2011, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheer Lunacy View Post

In principle, that slight increase in overall power could overload an amplified front end being used by somebody in Cedar Hill who was blaming his already-marginal reception on insufficient signal power, not having bothered to look out his window, but that's highly unlikely. That it would have that effect in Carrollton? "Preposterous" is the only word.

It's all Sheer Lunacy! Pun intended.

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Old 01-25-2011, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by otterhound View Post

Any of you using a Hauppage tuner and Windows Media Center? Ever since KTXA switched, I get nothing. I've deleted all my channels and re-scanned in WMC. WMC shows KTXA at virtual 21.1 but at zero signal strength. I don't know how to check what actual channel WMC thinks the virtual 21.1 maps to.

Can anyone give me a hand?

FWIW I'm in Addison

It turns out it was a tuner problem. I can get KTXA fine when the antenna is plugged into the tuner that built into my Vizio TV. I am going to try replacing the Hauppage PC tuner with an AverMedia.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:18 PM
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Have you tried disabling the existing channel and then running the scan for new channels? WMC is brain damaged and does stupid things like this all the time.
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:40 PM
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KLEG/44 now has a static slide announcing that Azteca programming is now available on KAZD/55. Given the 65+ programming streams currently available in the market, what niche is there to be filled by this low-power facility?

Their first order of business, of course, is to make money with as little investment as possible. And do it in a rough economy.
LL
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:07 AM
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Shall we flip a coin? Heads infomercials and tails religious fundraising garbage? If I may borrow from The Simpsons, "These are the people who saw an overcrowded marketplace and said, 'Me too!'"
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:14 AM
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Who knows, they may move that transmitter to places in the Dallas/Fort Worth Metro area that don't have a very good signal area. They may become translators for other stations.

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Old 01-26-2011, 09:10 AM
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Shall we flip a coin? Heads infomercials and tails religious fundraising garbage? If I may borrow from The Simpsons, "These are the people who saw an overcrowded marketplace and said, 'Me too!'"

I did a fresh rescan the other day just to sort things out. I'm not particularity religious, I don't speak Spanish, and I'm too poor to afford to buy anything I don't need. So, out of 65 channels, I deleted 45 of them.

Just an observation.

Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the south-western quadrant of the Greater Krum, TX  Metropolitan Area. 

 

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Old 01-26-2011, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

KLEG/44 now has a static slide announcing that Azteca programming is now available on KAZD/55. Given the 65+ programming streams currently available in the market, what niche is there to be filled by this low-power facility?

Their first order of business, of course, is to make money with as little investment as possible. And do it in a rough economy.

Assuming KLEG wants to keep serving the Hispanic market, I think the best one could hope for would be something like LATV on 44.1 and infomercials on 44.2.
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5ING View Post

I did a fresh rescan the other day just to sort things out. I'm not particularity religious, I don't speak Spanish, and I'm too poor to afford to buy anything I don't need. So, out of 65 channels, I deleted 45 of them.

Just an observation.

After deleting the Spanish-language, Christian, and shopping channels I'm left with 23 (4.1, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 11.1, 13.1, 13.2, 21.1, 27.1, 31.3, 31.4, 33.1, 33.2, 33.3, 34.3, 50.1, 52.1, 68.1, 68.2, 68.3). 10 are HD and 13 SD.

34.3 has some good stuff but also a lot of infomercials, and 68.2 is a kids' channel, so some folks may delete those as well.
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:38 PM
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I'm only left with 8.
KDFW
KXAS 5.1 and 5.2
WFAA 8.1 and 8.2
KTVT
KTXA
and KDAF

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Old 01-26-2011, 12:54 PM
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I'm going to call on forum members who live closer to downtown Dallas than I to check on a point of curiosity. This may be somewhat "out there" but you never know...

1). KPFW has not yet lit up on RF-18, even after that channel has been vacant for several days when KTXA moved to RF-29.

2). Low-power KPFW does have a track record of transmitting on a channel otherwise occupied by a full-power facility (as they did last spring when they moved from RF-61 to RF-18). See post #5638 in this thread for background.

These low power facilities are known for sloppy operations and few of them have any real technical staff on hand.

3). Where I live, KTXA now has a superb raw power reading on a pro-grade measuring device but their BER (essentially signal quality) is subpar.

Now...cue up the Area 51 tinfoil hat music...is there any (albeit remote) chance at all that KPFW is still transmitting on RF-29 and interfering with KTXA? I wouldn't get KPFW where I live since I'm so far away but a degraded signal quality on KTXA would be observed (as it was last spring when they both were transmitting on the same channel for a period of time).

So, those of you close to the Bank of America Tower, are you seeing any whiff of a stream from KPFW on 29 when you aim your antenna that direction?

Here's the filing from KPFW last spring when they were taken by surprise (note their use of "EVIDENTLY") that KTXA was on RF-18 (in spite of KTXA having operated on RF-18 since August 2009):

Quote:


IGLESIA WAS GRANTED A CONSTRUCTION PERMIT TO COMMENCE OPERATIONS
DIGITALLY ON CHANNEL 18. THIS WAS NECESSARY DUE TO THE NEED TO
VACATE ITS PRIOR CHANNEL (CHANNEL 61) TO ACCOMMODATE IMPENDING
OPERATIONS BY VERIZON. AS OPERATIONS WERE ABOUT TO COMMENCE ON
CHANNEL 18, HOWEVER, IT WAS LEARNED THAT STATION KTXA RECENTLY FILED
A REQUEST FOR ISSUANCE OF AN STA (BEDSTA-20100225ABT) TO OPERATE
TEMPORARILY ON CHANNEL 18. SPECIFICALLY, STATION KTXA SOUGHT SPECIAL
TEMPORARY AUTHORITY TO DISCONTINUE BROADCASTING ON CHANNEL 19 (ITS
POST-TRANSITION FREQUENCY) AND RESUME OPERATIONS ON CHANNEL 18 (ITS
PRE-TRANSITION DIGITAL ASSIGNMENT), IN ORDER TO ALLOW ITS CO-OWNED
SISTER STATION, KTVT (WHICH HAS RECEIVED COMPLAINTS FROM VIEWERS
UNABLE TO RECEIVE ITS HIGHBAND VHF SIGNAL) TO BROADCAST TEMPORARILY
ON CHANNEL 19. ALTHOUGH THAT STA REQUEST HAS NOT YET BEEN GRANTED,
KTXA EVIDENTLY ALREADY HAS COMMENCED OPERATIONS ON CHANNEL 18.

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Old 01-26-2011, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nukeboy67 View Post

I'm only left with 8.
KDFW
KXAS 5.1 and 5.2
WFAA 8.1 and 8.2
KTVT
KTXA
and KDAF

Mine are: (virtual channel numbers)

4.1 KDFW Fox
5.1 KXAS NBC
5.2 KXAS News
5.3 KXAS Winter Sports
8.1 WFAA ABC
8.2 WFAA News (for now)
8.3 Livewell (I don't really watch it but didn't delete it either).
11.1 KTVT CBS
13.1 KERA PBS
13.2 KERA PBS World
21.1 KXTA Ind.
27.1 KDFI Ind.
31.3 K31GL HOT TV (retro shows)
31.4 K31GL RTV (retro shows)
33.1 KDAF CW
33.2 KDAF Antenna TV (retro shows)
33.3 KDAF THIS TV (only watch once in a while)
52.1 KFWD Ind.
68.1 KPXD Ion TV
68.3 KPXD Ion Life (only watch once in a while)

The other 45 I've deleted.

I don't live that far from you (I'm near Stony). You should be getting most all of these with the possible exception of the 31's, which are low power.

Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the south-western quadrant of the Greater Krum, TX  Metropolitan Area. 

 

73, K5ING (Jeff)
 

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Old 01-26-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

KLEG/44 now has a static slide announcing that Azteca programming is now available on KAZD/55. Given the 65+ programming streams currently available in the market, what niche is there to be filled by this low-power facility?

Their first order of business, of course, is to make money with as little investment as possible. And do it in a rough economy.

We are seeing a similar slide here in Houston on KUVM-LD 10.4, former home of Azteca América.

Curiously, the switchoff happened 9 months to the day after Azteca appeared on then-KNWS 51.2. I wonder if Una Vez Más had a 9-month notice in their lease of the subchannel.

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Old 01-26-2011, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by re_nelson View Post

I'm going to call on forum members who live closer to downtown Dallas than I to check on a point of curiosity. This may be somewhat "out there" but you never know...

In 75006 a wipe and rescan finds nothing out of the ordinary. KTXA-DT is booming in on RF-29. KPFW is no where to be found. The only channel I have ever had problems with from downtown Dallas and/or Cedar Hill was Lo-VHF 3.
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by julesism View Post

In 75006 a wipe and rescan finds nothing out of the ordinary. KTXA-DT is booming in on RF-29. KPFW is no where to be found.

Thanks, I'll now put my tinfoil beanie propeller cap away. My notion that KPFW was still after KTXA had moved was a stretch. You're close enough in to have detected it if it had still be on.

Just to wrap this up, does your television's signal diagnostic measurement screen distinguish between signal strength and signal quality (typically SNR) or is it represented on a single scale?
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5ING View Post
Mine are: (virtual channel numbers)

4.1 KDFW Fox
5.1 KXAS NBC
5.2 KXAS News
5.3 KXAS Winter Sports
8.1 WFAA ABC
8.2 WFAA News (for now)
8.3 Livewell (I don't really watch it but didn't delete it either).
11.1 KTVT CBS
13.1 KERA PBS
13.2 KERA PBS World
21.1 KXTA Ind.
27.1 KDFI Ind.
31.3 K31GL HOT TV (retro shows)
31.4 K31GL RTV (retro shows)
33.1 KDAF CW
33.2 KDAF Antenna TV (retro shows)
33.3 KDAF THIS TV (only watch once in a while)
52.1 KFWD Ind.
68.1 KPXD Ion TV
68.3 KPXD Ion Life (only watch once in a while)

The other 45 I've deleted.

I don't live that far from you (I'm near Stony). You should be getting most all of these with the possible exception of the 31's, which are low power.
I get a total of 68 channels off the air. A total of 59 have been deleted from mine. I just watch the main core channels.

Forecaster for Decatur, Texas Storm Team
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