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post #7351 of 7378 Old 07-05-2014, 03:37 PM
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Are we supposed to just guess as to what your TVFool looks like?

In any event, move the antenna. It's in a "dead" spot for that station. It might only take 6-12", it might take 6-12 feet or yards.
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post #7352 of 7378 Old 07-05-2014, 06:25 PM
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Sorry, here it is. I assume what you say about a nebulous dead spot still applies. I would really really prefer to not move it. Just tried up and down by a few feet total and couldn't pick up NBC. There is a tree close by that I'll try pruning tomorrow, but it just seems strange that all these other similar channels come in so well.

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post #7353 of 7378 Old 07-06-2014, 07:46 AM
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You may need to move the position of the antenna and mast a few feet in some direction to get rid of multipath distortion or other interference. Not so easy I know, being mounted on your roof. I have an antenna on a tripod in the attic. Reception is very sensitive to positioning and finding that sweet spot on some channels. My roof antenna suffers from bad multipath on some channels so it goes unused. The one in the attic I can move around works much better.
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post #7354 of 7378 Old 07-06-2014, 03:26 PM
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Well, I moved the antenna over about 18 inches and pruned the tree closest to it pretty well with my pole saw. I now get NBC! 5-1 and also 5-2. However these channels both cut out some and none of the others do, particularly on my Samsung which has a much longer cable run than the Vizio. The picture is either perfect or cutting out. No snow or ghosting or whatever. Any advice on improving this without moving the antenna?
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post #7355 of 7378 Old 07-07-2014, 04:46 AM
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Remove the rest of the tree.

You could try a larger, more directional antenna but, since you already know you have a loction issue, it's going to be an experiment.
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post #7356 of 7378 Old 07-07-2014, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubcityraider View Post
Well, I moved the antenna over about 18 inches and pruned the tree closest to it pretty well with my pole saw. I now get NBC! 5-1 and also 5-2. However these channels both cut out some ... Any advice on improving this without moving the antenna?
You are getting there, just need to move it, raise it, lower it, more until you find the right spot.
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post #7357 of 7378 Old 07-09-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hubcityraider View Post
Well, I moved the antenna over about 18 inches and pruned the tree closest to it pretty well with my pole saw. I now get NBC! 5-1 and also 5-2. However these channels both cut out some and none of the others do, particularly on my Samsung which has a much longer cable run than the Vizio. The picture is either perfect or cutting out. No snow or ghosting or whatever. Any advice on improving this without moving the antenna?
That part implies you might also benefit from a low-noise preamp such as Winegard's Boost amp. The KXAS signal is there now, but weak, and running it through a long cable weakens it more. If you amplify it before you split it, you'll probably see better results.

BTW you will never see snow or ghosting on digital TV. If the signal is weak you'll get audio cutting-out as you're hearing now and freezing and/or macro-block errors (parts of the image that are obviously wrong) on video.
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post #7358 of 7378 Old 07-09-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Didn't KERA 13 have a sideband filter or somesuch to prevent adjacent interference to radio communication, which was effecting KERA's received signal quality?
Whatever they're doing, they apparently did it some more. KERA's signal reading jumped from the high 70's to the high 80's on my Philco a couple of days ago. Haven't checked the readings on the Pals yet.

KLEG/44's signal readings also jumped dramatically a couple of weeks ago. (Too bad they don't broadcast anything I'm interested in.) Is a new, improved generation of mask filters starting to get installed?
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post #7359 of 7378 Old 07-09-2014, 04:17 PM
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A picture resolution observation: Watching the Prez giving a little speech now, on all the local channels and Fox-CNN etc. Noticing his pinstriped shirt. On Ch 8 and 4 you'd never know that was a pinstriped shirt, just a blur. Ch 11 it is sharply defined and clear. Ch 5 the pinstripes are there just not as sharp. Fox News and CNN via Dish Network show the pinstripes, similar to Ch 5, visible, just not as sharp as Ch 11.
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post #7360 of 7378 Old 07-10-2014, 04:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
A picture resolution observation: Watching the Prez giving a little speech now, on all the local channels and Fox-CNN etc. Noticing his pinstriped shirt. On Ch 8 and 4 you'd never know that was a pinstriped shirt, just a blur. Ch 11 it is sharply defined and clear. Ch 5 the pinstripes are there just not as sharp. Fox News and CNN via Dish Network show the pinstripes, similar to Ch 5, visible, just not as sharp as Ch 11.
The benefits of being able to dedicate all of your channel bandwidth to a single, 1080i stream
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post #7361 of 7378 Old 07-10-2014, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by PlnOTA View Post
The benefits of being able to dedicate all of your channel bandwidth to a single, 1080i stream
I looked for that so see if there was any correlation. Ch 4, no sub-channels, was fuzzy, no stripes visible like Ch 8 with 2 sub-channels. Ch 5 was almost as clearly defined as Ch 11, and 5 runs COZI 5.2.
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post #7362 of 7378 Old 07-10-2014, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
I looked for that so see if there was any correlation. Ch 4, no sub-channels, was fuzzy, no stripes visible like Ch 8 with 2 sub-channels. Ch 5 was almost as clearly defined as Ch 11, and 5 runs COZI 5.2.
Ch 4 is 720p at 14 mbps. Ch 11 is 1080i at 18.15 mbps. That's probably it. (Ch 8 upscales ABC to 1080i, Ch 5 uses a statmux.)

I also read somewhere that the CBS network feed uses more efficient encoders.
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post #7363 of 7378 Old 07-12-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by hubcityraider View Post
I get every relevant station from my TVFool report except NBC 5.1 KXAS. It has almost identical signal, direction, distance, etc as KERA, KDFW (Fox), and several others that all come in crystal clear. Thoughts?

Using a roof mounted CM2016 at about 27'.
Where do you live!
Ck KXTX RF40 Spanish shows up at ch39
Same tower as KXAS RF 41
Could be a PSIP issue. Scan with the antenna disconnected
Then scan again with the antenna connected
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post #7364 of 7378 Old 07-12-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PlnOTA View Post
The benefits of being able to dedicate all of your channel bandwidth to a single, 1080i stream

Consider the remote source. Ch8 was not carrying this in HD. I only saw it on ch8 so no comment on the other channels.
I don't know who the pool was for this event.
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post #7365 of 7378 Old 07-15-2014, 07:44 PM
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I just purchased an AM21 tuner for DTV and discovered the missing subchannels problem. Can someone suggest what zip codes I can use to get the most DFW channels possible?
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post #7366 of 7378 Old 07-19-2014, 02:46 PM
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Heard over on the DFW LPTV Changes thread at Radio Discussions (yes, that thread IS still alive) that KAZD 55-4 is now vacant.

Tuning into that channel, I see the following on-screen (in English and Spanish):

This channel can be leased, please call (214) 754-7008

Any chance we can contact HOT TV to see if they can set up shop on a full-power station?

Obviously Retro TV is out because Trip says they ink deals with affiliates rather than lease channel space.

---------------

On another note, is anybody noticing a decline in quality in KDFI's OTA signal? Sometimes my TV will say the signal is "bad" even though I still get a steady signal, and in extremely rare cases, the signal will pixelate for no reason. (A Lewisville bandscan shows the SS at 87 and the MER at 82.) Too bad, since I LOOOVE the MOVIES! channel (and on occasion, Bounce as well, though they'll move to KSTR or KUVN next year). It does not affect my viewing experience of KDFI, however.

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post #7367 of 7378 Old 07-19-2014, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
That part implies you might also benefit from a low-noise preamp such as Winegard's Boost amp. The KXAS signal is there now, but weak, and running it through a long cable weakens it more. If you amplify it before you split it, you'll probably see better results.
I bought the Winegard Boost amp on your recommendation. Powered the line before the 8 way Directv splitter and now everything is perfect on each of my TV's. Went from 30 channels to 59, but most importantly all the ones I care about are all now perfect. It's a nice feeling. Now to figure out what I want to do on DVR options. Thanks!
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post #7368 of 7378 Old 07-21-2014, 10:18 AM
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Can a signal be amplified at the end of a non-split run? Common sense says no but there is no power source at antenna and it is difficult to get to now due to added insulation.
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post #7369 of 7378 Old 07-21-2014, 11:48 AM
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I think it can be. The preamp would be connected right next to the antenna and then the power can be supplied downstream. The schematic that came with the Winegard preamp even shows the little white thing using the TV's USB slot for power instead of the wall plug in as an option. Worth a try imo. It's what I would have done if I didn't need to get it powered in front of the splitter.



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post #7370 of 7378 Old 07-21-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv_junkie87 View Post
Heard over on the DFW LPTV Changes thread at Radio Discussions (yes, that thread IS still alive) that KAZD 55-4 is now vacant.

Tuning into that channel, I see the following on-screen (in English and Spanish):

This channel can be leased, please call (214) 754-7008

Any chance we can contact HOT TV to see if they can set up shop on a full-power station?

Obviously Retro TV is out because Trip says they ink deals with affiliates rather than lease channel space.
You can try the contact page on their Web site at http://www.hottvchannel.com/contact.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv_junkie87 View Post
On another note, is anybody noticing a decline in quality in KDFI's OTA signal? Sometimes my TV will say the signal is "bad" even though I still get a steady signal, and in extremely rare cases, the signal will pixelate for no reason. (A Lewisville bandscan shows the SS at 87 and the MER at 82.) Too bad, since I LOOOVE the MOVIES! channel (and on occasion, Bounce as well, though they'll move to KSTR or KUVN next year). It does not affect my viewing experience of KDFI, however.

dtv_junkie87
See if there's a pattern to the dropouts. If it's an indoor antenna, see if it's when someone gets up and walks around. If an outdoor antenna, look at trees and see if they're blowing or swaying noticeably due to wind. If that's what you see, your problem is probably multipath. Multipath can often affect some channels and not others, apparently at random.

If so, try raising, lowering, reorienting or (if possible) moving your antenna; if it's outdoors you can also try pruning nearby trees a la hubcityraider. If that doesn't work (or if it does work but messes up a different channel), you may need a more directional antenna to deal with it, even if your current antenna delivers plenty of signal.
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post #7371 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by hubcityraider View Post
I think it can be. The preamp would be connected right next to the antenna and then the power can be supplied downstream. The schematic that came with the Winegard preamp even shows the little white thing using the TV's USB slot for power instead of the wall plug in as an option. Worth a try imo. It's what I would have done if I didn't need to get it powered in front of the splitter.
Problem with this preamp is you cannot feed 5V up the coax without a DC injector...and the amp is probably not outside rated. For BEST S/N ratio, a preamp mounted at the antenna before a coax run of RG6 is best for UHF channels. Therefore this is not the best amp to do so...though the noise figure is 1db, it is to be used at the base of the coax...and thus signal loss has already occurred and the overall S/N has increased from the antenna to the amp..(Lets say we have a 20db S/N at the antenna...go through coax that looses 10db at UHF channels...now you have a 10db S/N....add this amp and the noise does not increase but it is amplifying any noise present due to coax loss....take an amp like the CM7778 (equv gain at VHF and higher at UHF but a 2.8db S/N) and lets see what the figures now are...sooo 20db S/N at antenna, amplify 25-30db gain....with a 3db increase in noise...now its 45 to 50 - 3db or 42-47db S/N....signal loss thru the coax of 10db means you have a 32-37db S/N level....22-25 db stronger than using this amp. Also the CM series has a FM notch that can be bypassed if you wish to use the amp for FM use as well as TV...The CM has a high overload level...not sure what this one will handle as they donot publish that figure..True some TVs do not like TOO much signal...

The CM version is roughly the same price (Ralph's Electronics can sell it for ~$55 or so...) If you have a SHORT coax run (less than 25 ft) this amp may do ...certainly it would be great for indoor distribution use ahead of a splitter to multiple TVs..but for max RF improvement, an amp at the antenna is always best and the Winegard cannot be used outdoors, much less any more than 3 ft from the power source!

Also Channel Master makes distribution amps with built in splitters for much LESS than this unit...the CM3414 is a 4 port, has F connectors for RF AND the power input from the adaptor AND offers passive reverse path in case used on a cable feed which has a modem on it....the gain is 7db...overcomes the loss in the 4 port splitter and still maintains signal to the TV...their one port model (like the Winegard) has similar specs (slightly less gain and still only a 2.8db NF) but price is a hellva of lot cheaper..

also the CM distribution amps can be mounted remotely from their power supply and a coax injector is provided to feed the power down one coax to the amp....much better than the WG model..
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post #7372 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTTV;
Problem with this preamp is you cannot feed 5V up the coax without a DC injector...and the amp is probably not outside rated.
The Winegard preamp includes the injector and has the option of either powering from a USB port or from the provided wall wart. The amp is intended for outdoor use, see directions. However, the NF claim of 1 dB is a dream, it's actually 2-3 db on UHF, 4-6 dB on VHF. In all, it appears your concept of this amp is incorrect as it appears you've confused the LNA200 with the indoor-only LNA100

Your description of the effect of the amp on the S/N ratio is incorrect. When amplified, S/N is REDUCED by the amount of the amp's NF while the power levels of both the signal and the noise are amplified by the amount of gain. Passive insertion losses downstream of the amp affect the power of both the signal and the noise equally and do not affect the S/N ratio.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTTV;
not sure what this one will handle as they donot publish that figure..
Actually, they did publish that when the amp came out last year, it was in the user's guide and was discussed in the hardware thread last summer. Looks like it got dropped when they redid the guide as multi-lingual. Their marketing chart shown on their web page regarding overloading should be ridiculed and scoffed at as a joke, though.
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post #7373 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 10:06 AM
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Smile Mr. Antenna

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Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
You may need to move the position of the antenna and mast a few feet in some direction to get rid of multipath distortion or other interference. Not so easy I know, being mounted on your roof. I have an antenna on a tripod in the attic. Reception is very sensitive to positioning and finding that sweet spot on some channels. My roof antenna suffers from bad multipath on some channels so it goes unused. The one in the attic I can move around works much better.
If you have any questions at any time about antenna anything I welcome the call or e-mail to help. Mr. Antenna Dallas Ft. Worth
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post #7374 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 10:08 AM
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You are getting there, just need to move it, raise it, lower it, more until you find the right spot.
Let us know if you need any Free help on the phone or by e-mail. Mr. Antenna Dallas Ft. Worth.
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post #7375 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
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Just got off the phone with the engineering dept. at KUVN/KSTR (yes, they speak English) and here's the sub channel lineup for both stations:

KUVN

23-1: Univision
23-2: Bounce (2015)
23-3: Escape (August 18)

KSTR

49-1: Unimas
49-2: getTV
49-3: Grit (August 18)

I have tested both stations on my TV and both work quite well, ready for the arrival of Escape and Grit!

(And I just wanted to do Trip a favor on his site, too.)

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post #7376 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
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Just got off the phone with the engineering dept. at KUVN/KSTR (yes, they speak English) and here's the sub channel lineup for both stations:

KUVN

dtv_junkie87
Bryan Switzer (no relation to the former Cowboys head coach) is the CE there and a good friend....we worked together in Houston in the early 2000s...and I helped him flip 23 from analog to digital in June 2009. I guess his asst is still Bill Ryan (who was CE at KVIL for a long time then moved to KERA FM and TV before going to Univision)
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post #7377 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dtv_junkie87 View Post
(And I just wanted to do Trip a favor on his site, too.)
Thanks. Updated accordingly.

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post #7378 of 7378 Old Yesterday, 06:37 PM
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Easily the most exciting news in the Dallas-Ft. Worth market is the triumphant return of KVFW/38! My eyes have been glued to this facility since it recently returned to bless the viewing public with its compelling lineup of "must see" television, in shimmering hi-def 480i. Absent since 6 April 2011, it sure is good to have this long-missed station back. Under the ownership of New York Spectrum Holding Company LLC, it's certain that even more outstanding program fare is right around the corner!
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