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post #7411 of 7542 Old 08-14-2014, 03:47 PM
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@tx_gooner , that sounds like a good plan. Yes, you need a UHF/VHF antenna to receive channel 8; and yes, I'd definitely recommend a preamp between the antenna and a 4-way splitter.

I don't have any strong recommendations for the splitter. Any 4-way splitter should do. In the past I've recommended a Winegard Boost preamp, which I use and get good results with. They make two models: a simple in-line preamp powered by a USB power adapter, and a more expensive model with a power injector. If you have AC power in your attic, you can probably get by with the cheaper model.

I assume you don't have a radiant barrier in your attic; if you do, you'll probably need to remove a section of it for an attic antenna to "see" through.

The antenna is the toughest call. Attics are often awfully cramped places for traditional "long boom" antennas like the Winegard 7696, Channel Master 2018, or AntennaCraft HBU-44. But any of those should work fine if they will fit.

If not, you might consider a panel-style antenna, which should fit much more easily in an attic. The only panel-style antenna I know of with VHF capability is the Channel Master 4228HD. It has some issues but I think it would work OK at your location. You're about the same distance from Cedar Hill as I (and tvfool.com is more optimistic about your location), and I used the older Channel Master 4228 antenna for quite a while before I upgraded to a rooftop antenna. It picked up channel 8 just fine.
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post #7412 of 7542 Old 08-14-2014, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schultdw View Post
I sent them an email a few weeks ago requesting that they add EPG data. The response was underwhelming so I filed a complaint with the FCC. Their response was nearly as bad as they sent me a document on low power TV stations that said nothing about the EPG. But after some more digging into 47 CFR Part 74, Subpart G, it appears that EPG is strictly optional for LPTV.
Unfortunately that's correct, which is one reason we all keep hoping that someone can find a way to move Retro TV to a full-power station.
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post #7413 of 7542 Old 08-14-2014, 06:37 PM
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@JHBrandt ; Thanks for your suggestions. If I decide to go with a rooftop install, would a smaller yagi antenna work as well? I have read good things about the Winegard HD7694P and even the RCA ANT751. In these cases those smaller footprint antennas would tuck in nicely to my garage roof, I have a full southern view (most of my channels are 4 degrees apart from here) and shorten the length of my coax runs significantly.

But I am a little concerned about how I would get a preamp to work outdoors. As I said, all of my Coax runs come out of my house through my brick wall near my phone ONT. If I get say, the LNA200 preamp, then I would need a way to power it from inside the house but after my 4 way splitter. So if I get a 4 way splitter with a DC passthrough (like this) then I could make the LNA200 work, right?

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post #7414 of 7542 Old 08-15-2014, 07:46 AM
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Hard to be sure until you try it, but for the most part I think a 7694 (or a CM 2016 or an HBU-33) would work. They have less gain than the ones I mentioned before, so they could have trouble with a few LPTVs; but your TVFool.com report has K31GL (Hot TV/Retro TV) in green, and that's the only LPTV most folks in DFW worry about.

And yes, that 4-way splitter with DC pass-through on one leg should be fine for powering a preamp like the LNA200.
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post #7415 of 7542 Old 08-15-2014, 10:29 AM
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Thanks again for your guidance. One last question. I have read some posts from people who used a preamp and it turned out that they didn't need it and were, in fact, overloading their signal. My assumption is that since I am trying to split to 4 rooms in the house, the signal loss would be enough to be noticeable without a preamp. Would you buy the LNA200 preamp now (knowing my TVFool.com numbers), or wait and see if its needed, adding it later?
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post #7416 of 7542 Old 08-15-2014, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tx_gooner View Post
My wife and I have decided to cancel our FioS TV/Phone/Internet package in a cost-cutting measure. We live in N Carrollton, and a quick scan of antennaweb shows I am about 28-31 miles from Cedar Hill. While looking at DTV antennas, I see that there are a myriad of styles and options. I am interested in wiring for 4 TVs (all Vizio HDs of 40in and smaller sizes) What are some recommended antennas for this job? I read on these forums that Ch 8 is a VHF broadcaster, so that means I need a UHF/VHF combo, right?

I am looking to mount the antenna in the southernmost corner of my two-story attic. All of the coax in my house terminates by my Telephone ONT on the southwest side of my house. So I am looking at going from the antenna down to the terminations and then back up into the rooms. I suspect I would need an amplifier coming off of the antenna, are there recommended splitters for the job, too? There are already shielded commercial splitters on the side of the house that were used for Dish TV a few years back.

Thanks for any help you guys can give.

Here is my tvfool entry:

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...ec2fd84dabf417
Don't go nuts and get more then what you need. A couple of questions you might want to ask yourself are "does my attic have solar radiant barrier?" If yes, an antenna in the attic probably won't work unless you cut a "hole" in the radiant barrier so the directional antenna can see through it. Second, what kind of obstructions do you have between you and Cedar Hill? Trees and buildings can block signals.

I'm twice your distance from Cedar Hill and get everything the DFW area offers (including Ch. 8 and LP Ch. 31s) with a simple "clip on the old dish" antenna in my avatar picture along with a cheap preamp. Granted, my location is pretty much ideal being that my elevation is good (850ft amsl) and I have no obstructions of any kind to my south. My suggestion would be to start small and work your way up. Try a simple VHF rabbit ear antenna to see if you get WFAA Ch. 8 (probably the only VHF station you're going to watch) first and go from there. If that works, you can always duplex that antenna in with a smaller (and cheaper) UHF-only antenna for the rest of the OTA offerings rather than to get a big UHF/VHF antenna.

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post #7417 of 7542 Old 08-15-2014, 02:59 PM
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Saw this post from a WAXN engineer in the Charlotte thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theo1080 View Post
RF repack in Charlotte.

Stations that will have to change channels:
WAXN
WUNG
WJZY
WMYT
WHKY

Stations that will not have to change channels:
WTVI

Stations that don't know yet:
WSOC
WCCB
WCNC
WBTV
WNSC

Most likely channel 37 (radio astro) will be used as guard band.

Power levels are unknown yet, but would increase if OFDM is used in ATSC 3.0. OFDM takes appox. 1 to 2.5 db more power to have the same coverage area than 8-VSB.

Stations will be encourage to move to VHF. Stations that are VHF now (WTVI) have almost no chance to move to UHF.

Stations can not be force to change transmitter site locations.

Which stations in DFW will have to change channels? The FCC intends to repack is everything above RF 31, correct?
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post #7418 of 7542 Old 08-15-2014, 03:57 PM
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The auction is voluntary, so if no stations go up for sale (unlikely), then no stations have to change channels. Otherwise, participation controls which stations have to move. It's impossible to know until after the auction actually happens.

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Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

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post #7419 of 7542 Old 08-15-2014, 10:46 PM
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Attention DFW antenna viewers!

Time to rescan - Grit is up and running on KSTR 49-3, and Escape is up and running on KUVN 23-3, both with their grand openings slated for this Monday morning at 11! For now, some promos for the new networks are running. (Same as on their websites)

Also, after rescanning my TV tonight, I was able to get KTEN Sherman from my Mohu 50 here in Northwestern Dallas County! As expected, no signal, but I can get the NBC (10-1) and CW (10-2) channel assignments! (Wonder why no ABC?) I was able to pick up low-powered channel 30 (RF 21; mostly Spanish religious channels) as well. (NOTE: see my next message - this info no longer applies)

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Last edited by dtv_junkie87; 08-16-2014 at 08:37 PM. Reason: Added Escape and DX update
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post #7420 of 7542 Old 08-16-2014, 07:40 AM
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Turned on my DTVPal DVR this morning, 2 stations added overnight, 23.2 and 23.3 KUVN. But when I tuned to either one, the 'Pal seemed to lock up for a minute, couldn't get it to change off either of those new added channels (no video yet) without a long delay.
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post #7421 of 7542 Old 08-16-2014, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackedscreen View Post
Saw this post from a WAXN engineer in the Charlotte thread:




Which stations in DFW will have to change channels? The FCC intends to repack is everything above RF 31, correct?
Nothing set in stone YET....stations who propose to move (especially those willing to go back to lowband) will get points and will be awarded new homes based on the point system....at least that's what I got from reading the PDF...however, Congress could step in and put a stop to all this (and pigs could still yet fly.....and the Cowboys could actually win tonight's game.....ok, I'm stopping with that one)
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post #7422 of 7542 Old 08-16-2014, 08:19 PM
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And speaking of the Cowpokes, is the network audio feed the only problem or is it also Dallas??? The audio on the station carrying it in BPT (Sinclair 4.1 KBTV) sounds like a Skype audio (or worse!) feed....Texans on another channel sounds great...Cowboys video look fine but the audio is UGH!!! Was not this bad last week!
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post #7423 of 7542 Old 08-16-2014, 08:34 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Turned on my DTVPal DVR this morning, 2 stations added overnight, 23.2 and 23.3 KUVN. But when I tuned to either one, the 'Pal seemed to lock up for a minute, couldn't get it to change off either of those new added channels (no video yet) without a long delay.
Well, my wait is over. Now I have 23-3 and 49-3 on my TV (can't get 23-2 yet, but Bounce won't move until next year anyway), though of the two, I'll park my remote on Grit more often!

Also, while rescanning my TV, I lost LP Ch 30 and KTEN, but I gained KHPK 28! Finally, I have a Cedar Hill LP here in NW Dallas County on my Mohu 50! Unfortunately, I can only receive an occasional pixel if my Mohu is positioned just right! (I feel your pain about Retro TV stuck on a low power channel.)

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post #7424 of 7542 Old 08-17-2014, 03:25 AM
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^^^There may be better antenna choices than the Mohu 50. Particularly if you are trying to receive a low power channel.
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post #7425 of 7542 Old 08-17-2014, 10:23 AM
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Talking

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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
^^^There may be better antenna choices than the Mohu 50. Particularly if you are trying to receive a low power channel.
Thanks. I like my Mohu 50 - it's just that I think it's awesome that I can sort of DX with it at night. I mean, on Friday night, I got KTEN in Sherman! (Well, just the channel info part.)

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P.S. Just for kicks, I rescanned my TV, holding the Mohu at different positions. I got KODF 26.1 through 26.4! (The latter being HOT TV, DFW's premier public domain station!) Right now, I am watching 1936's My Man Godfrey. Check out my attached photos to see the secret to my success (and this is from 30 miles away from Cedar Hill)! Not sure about daytime performance, however, and for TV listings, use the 31.3 listings (as the movie began at midnight, NOT 11 PM).
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post #7426 of 7542 Old 08-18-2014, 08:08 AM
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Several days now, tune to 33.2 Antenna TV on KDAF, and NO obnoxious BUG in the corner of the picture! Thank You KDAF! As Antenna TV's slogan says... "TV How It Was Meant To Be!"
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post #7427 of 7542 Old 08-18-2014, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv_junkie87 View Post
Well, my wait is over. Now I have 23-3 and 49-3 on my TV (can't get 23-2 yet, but Bounce won't move until next year anyway), though of the two, I'll park my remote on Grit more often!

Also, while rescanning my TV, I lost LP Ch 30 and KTEN, but I gained KHPK 28! Finally, I have a Cedar Hill LP here in NW Dallas County on my Mohu 50! Unfortunately, I can only receive an occasional pixel if my Mohu is positioned just right! (I feel your pain about Retro TV stuck on a low power channel.)

dtv_junkie87
My wife is on a vacation with her parents this week, but just from watching the promos yesterday, I can already tell she's going to LOVE Escape on 23-3. They're carrying some shows that were formerly on cable/satellite/Internet only, such as Snapped and Forensic Files, that she loves (and to think she's already filled up her 1 TB Pal).

Edit: One small annoyance I noticed today is that both 23-3 and 49-3 have the aspect ratio fouled up. At present they're both airing 4:3 content, and it's flagged as 4:3 - yet it's letterboxed, giving everyone that "fathead" look

There must have been wicked tropo this weekend. I turned on one of my Pals Sunday and discovered it had added KETA/13 from OKC and KOET/11 from Tulsa, as well as a TBN affiliate on channel 23 and KVUE (Austin) on channel 24!

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post #7428 of 7542 Old 08-19-2014, 07:07 AM
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One of my 'Pals the one on standby added KJTL Texoma. yesterday. Had not seen that one appear here before. Off the back of the antenna.
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post #7429 of 7542 Old 08-19-2014, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
One of my 'Pals the one on standby added KJTL Texoma. yesterday. Had not seen that one appear here before. Off the back of the antenna.
My 'Pals do that all the time. Propagation allows a station to be "seen" at just the right time so it adds it. I just wish it wouldn't add it to my lineup automatically. I'm getting tired of having to go in and delete now-unwatchable stations every other day.

Radio propagation is a funny thing. Back in the 60's and living up near Chicago, I was able to watch about 15 minutes of "The Flintstones" coming from KIII in Corpus Christi, Texas. I even took a picture of the station ID during a commercial break. It was snowy, but watchable.
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post #7430 of 7542 Old 08-19-2014, 09:53 AM
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Do you know the trick for banishing those stations that keep coming back? Instead of deleting them, hide them (Option 3-1-4 from your Pal menu). The drawback is you have to set a password for your Pal first (I use easy-to-remember, hard-to-mistype password of 9999), and you have to enter it when protecting or unprotecting a recording.

But the ones I got this weekend had never appeared on my Pal before, so I just deleted them. It'll probably be a long time before tropo conditions are that good again.
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post #7431 of 7542 Old 08-19-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
My wife is on a vacation with her parents this week, but just from watching the promos yesterday, I can already tell she's going to LOVE Escape on 23-3. They're carrying some shows that were formerly on cable/satellite/Internet only, such as Snapped and Forensic Files, that she loves (and to think she's already filled up her 1 TB Pal).

Edit: One small annoyance I noticed today is that both 23-3 and 49-3 have the aspect ratio fouled up. At present they're both airing 4:3 content, and it's flagged as 4:3 - yet it's letterboxed, giving everyone that "fathead" look

There must have been wicked tropo this weekend. I turned on one of my Pals Sunday and discovered it had added KETA/13 from OKC and KOET/11 from Tulsa, as well as a TBN affiliate on channel 23 and KVUE (Austin) on channel 24!
Yeah, I've noticed that Escape and Grit are being presented in "stretch-o-vision," as some would put it, but I hope this problem will be fixed. (The commercial breaks are presented in their correct OAR, however. And this affects ALL Escape and Grit affiliates, not just ours.)

Since you guys talk about PSIP a lot, I noticed something about Escape 23-3: the PSIP is off by one hour! For example, Copycat is on from 9 to 11 tonight (as I am typing), but the guide on my TV shows Snapped from 9-10 P.M. and Copycat from 10 P.M. on. Just wanted to let you know, in case your wife wants to monopolize the Pal even more!

And yes, I was there this past Monday at 11 A.M. for the grand opening of Grit! I just hope Katz will rectify this aspect ratio problem! (KUVN and KSTR are airing both networks in 4x3 letterbox with many breaks in "postage stamp vision!")

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post #7432 of 7542 Old 08-20-2014, 08:34 AM
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The good news, I guess, is that her Pal is hooked to an old CRT TV, so she can compensate for the aspect ratio easily by setting the Pal to "Stretch" vertically. I tried that Monday and it works fine.

(Much harder to compensate on the living room TV, which is a 16:9 flat screen. There's no aspect setting that fixes it with the TV's own tuner; I have to use the Pal, set the Pal to "Zoom" to fill out the 16:9 screen, and then force 4:3 mode on the TV to pillar-box it correctly. And then of course I have to undo all that if I change channels! What a mess.)

The EPG issue is another matter though. They need to get that fixed before she records the wrong show! They've got a week or two before she comes home....
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post #7433 of 7542 Old 08-20-2014, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtv_junkie87 View Post

Also, after rescanning my TV tonight, I was able to get KTEN Sherman from my Mohu 50 here in Northwestern Dallas County!

dtv_junkie87
That's a great catch. KTEN's transmitter is in Wapanuka, Oklahoma. That's more than 100 miles from you. Next time that happens, try pointing a little more north (toward Ada, OK), rather than NE toward Sherman. Or get the very strongest signal you can on KXII (in Madill, Oklahoma), then turn it a bit to the east.

KXII and KTEN rarely pre-empt their networks, so if anything is pre-empted in DFW, you've got a decent chance of finding those shows. And sometimes they'll have a different NFL game from what we see in DFW.
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post #7434 of 7542 Old 08-21-2014, 07:20 AM
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Unfortunately NFL games are rarely played overnight when the tropo is best....
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post #7435 of 7542 Old 08-21-2014, 04:38 PM
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Unfortunately NFL games are rarely played overnight when the tropo is best....
D'oh!

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post #7436 of 7542 Old 08-21-2014, 04:49 PM
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I remember the evening after the major Dallas tornado event in 2012 (I believe it was March), I was able to receive KJTL clear as a local. Watched a whole episode of Two and a Half Men. Pretty impressive for an indoor antenna. I had pictures, but lost them when my hard drive crapped itself.
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post #7437 of 7542 Old 08-21-2014, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post
Do you know the trick for banishing those stations that keep coming back? Instead of deleting them, hide them (Option 3-1-4 from your Pal menu). The drawback is you have to set a password for your Pal first (I use easy-to-remember, hard-to-mistype password of 9999), and you have to enter it when protecting or unprotecting a recording.

But the ones I got this weekend had never appeared on my Pal before, so I just deleted them. It'll probably be a long time before tropo conditions are that good again.
Thanks for that. I have just the simple DTV Pal converter, not the DVR version, but the menu numbers match up. Don't think I'll mess with it though because it's rarely the same one twice in a row. Nice to know though.

Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the south-western quadrant of the Greater Krum, TX  Metropolitan Area. 

 

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post #7438 of 7542 Old 08-21-2014, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Turned on my DTVPal DVR this morning and it had added KVFW-LD 38.1 overnight. But when I try to tune to it, "0". Once in a while the signal will come up and show color bars. Looks like I have my pluge grayscale and colors about right.
Looks like KVFW has moved from color bars to infomercials. Actually I'm surprised I can get it at all. The FCC site says they're operating at only 1 kW temporarily. But I found a "sweet spot" for my antenna that brings them in.

But the bandwidth is extremely low, despite the fact there's only one subchannel! I see compression artifacts with the slightest motion.

I wonder what they're using the rest of their bandwidth for? Maybe they're still experimenting with an encrypted MediaFLO-like service?

Last edited by JHBrandt; 08-22-2014 at 07:00 AM.
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post #7439 of 7542 Old 08-23-2014, 06:51 PM
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Has anyone in the Garland area been able to get Grit TV on 49.3? I can't pull it in with my Terk HDTVi even with moving the antenna around. I also did a rescan of channels but still no luck. Thanks for any input.

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post #7440 of 7542 Old 08-23-2014, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_in_tx View Post
Several days now, tune to 33.2 Antenna TV on KDAF, and NO obnoxious BUG in the corner of the picture! Thank You KDAF! As Antenna TV's slogan says... "TV How It Was Meant To Be!"
I noticed that the "BUG" is back. I hate it as well. I have a plasma hdtv and I have to be careful with static logos and image retention.

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