Watertown, NY - HDTV - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 113 Old 04-14-2009, 07:30 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Can anyone verify that WPBS and WNPI ended analog operations on 4/12? They had a counter on their website, but they removed it when it expired.

Thanks,
Falcon_77 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 113 Old 04-14-2009, 05:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Morpheus_Rising's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 319
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I checked WPBS Monday night and the analog channel has ceased broadcasting.
Morpheus_Rising is offline  
post #93 of 113 Old 04-15-2009, 08:09 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Falcon_77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: OC, CA
Posts: 2,602
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thank you for the update. The website shows that they are broadcasting on digital channels 41 and 23, but may be confusing since the virtual channels are probably still 16 and 18.
Falcon_77 is offline  
post #94 of 113 Old 06-15-2009, 07:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
foxfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,013
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Doesn't anyone in the North Country use the internets? No update since April! Anyone seen the status of WNYF-LD?
foxfan is offline  
post #95 of 113 Old 06-16-2009, 06:25 AM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfan View Post

Doesn't anyone in the North Country use the internets? No update since April! Anyone seen the status of WNYF-LD?

Most of the discussion on DTV in the North Country happens over on WWNY-DT's blog.

Check out http://dtvtransition.blogspot.com/20...ave-weyou.html for details. WNYF-CD is scheduled for the end of the summer.
tvlurker is offline  
post #96 of 113 Old 06-16-2009, 06:38 AM
Member
 
roger1818's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxfan View Post

Doesn't anyone in the North Country use the internets? No update since April! Anyone seen the status of WNYF-LD?

As Jim Corbin (Program Director for WWNY/WNYF) says at 6/12 DTV Deadline Has Passed, Have We/You Survived?, WNYF-LP (like all LPTV, Class A and Translator stations) is still broadcasting in analog. There are plans to have WNYF-CA broadcast digitally by the end of the summer, but they are still in the exploritory phase for WNYF-LP, so no date has been set.
roger1818 is offline  
post #97 of 113 Old 07-20-2009, 01:20 PM
Newbie
 
spunker88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Since people want to know here are the plans for WNYF to go digital.

Using the old UHF 35 channel that WWNY used pre 2/17/09, WNYF plans to broadcast in HD from the WWNY tower at 15kw which is technically low power. Since this station wont be as powerful as WWNY, they plan on keeping WNYF in standard definition on the 7-2 subchannel for WWNY. In case your wondering why they dont just make 7-2 an HD subchannel, I was told by Jim Corbin that this would use up or exceed avaliable space on ch7 since WWNY, 7-1 uses 1080p instead of 720p like most some channels. This new channel has been approved by the FCC, it should be done sometime this summer.
See their app to the FCC (Sorry Cant post links yet)

For St. Lawrence County, WNYF has plans of shutting down the Massena analog translator and instead using the facilities on WNPI. This means they would use channel 18, with PSIP at channel 28 and be a repeater of WWNY. This will proably mean that WWNY will be in HD and WNYF will be in SD. I imagine they will use some big antenna or something to pull in the fringe signal from Watertown and then rebroadcast it. WPBS relays their signal up their so i imagine WWNY can do the same thing. This is only 4kw so people in Massena are going to get the short end of the stick, b/c this signal may not reach them. Maybe someday they will get a power increase, but they just applied this to the FCC so it has not been approved yet.
See their app to the FCC (Sorry Cant post links yet)

I asked Jim Corbin who works for WWNY, this stuff the other day and he got back to me pretty quick. Check out the WWNY DTV Transition Blog

It seems like the FCC doesnt like to give out large power assigments for channels near the Canadian border. But i have a feeling 4kw will be too little to cover even St Lawrence county despite the map on the FCC's website that shows it covering the whole thing. If WNPI is allowed to have 40kw digital on the same tower, im sure WNYF can and will apply for a power increase, but they are probably applying with a low power to get approved by the FCC. Also to stay a "LP" station they would have to remain under 15kw.

Jim also told me that WWNY is feeling the effects of the Recession like everybody is, so your just going to have to bear with them. Upgrading towers to digital is very costly. But hopefully we will at least get to have FOX OTA in HD soon, although it will be LP.
spunker88 is offline  
post #98 of 113 Old 08-24-2009, 08:41 AM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


7-1 uses 1080p instead of 720p like most some channels.

Just a small correction -- I think you meant 1080i. There is no 1080p in ATSC transmission.
tvlurker is offline  
post #99 of 113 Old 09-17-2009, 07:18 AM
Newbie
 
spunker88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hey just an update guys, WNYF-CD signed on. It is a lower powered digital tower that provides WNYF in HD OTA. Before WNYF was only avaliable in SD on 7.2. Now it is available on channel 35 with PSIP of 28.1 being broadcast from the same tower as WWNY.

As soon as they get FCC approval for WNYF-LD in St. Lawrence county, they will sign it on. Should be relatively quick since they are using a prebuilt tower facility, the one used for WNPI's analog signal. This is also technically LP, but according to the FCC's database it should cover most of St. Lawrence county. This is going to be a repeater of WWNY, carrying CBS in HD and Fox in SD, unlike WNYF-CD which only has FOX in HD.

Sources:
7 News Broadcast
Their Blogger Site
spunker88 is offline  
post #100 of 113 Old 06-09-2010, 10:56 AM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
WNYF-LP's application to move to digital on channel 18 from South Colton was approved this week by the FCC. According to WWNY/WNYF's Jim Corbin at http://dtvtransition.blogspot.com/20...-lp-still.html
Quote:


Work has started on the site and we now need to arrange delivery of the transmitter. With any luck I'd say no more than 4-6 weeks.

tvlurker is offline  
post #101 of 113 Old 09-29-2010, 12:41 PM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
WNYF-LD is testing this week (RF ch. 18, ch 28.1 Fox SD, 28.2 CBS HD from North Country Public TV's tower in South Colton). How is reception throughout St Lawrence County?
There have been reception reports in the east end of Ottawa.
tvlurker is offline  
post #102 of 113 Old 04-03-2012, 07:11 AM
Newbie
 
gmd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Any words on when NBC will transmit in upstate NY?

When will WNPI start using 23-x to differentiate themselves from 28-x on 18?

-gmd1
gmd1 is offline  
post #103 of 113 Old 04-03-2012, 07:42 AM
Member
 
DTV_Engineer_Syr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd1 View Post

Any words on when NBC will transmit in upstate NY?

When will WNPI start using 23-x to differentiate themselves from 28-x on 18?

-gmd1

It doesn't seem likely that United Communications, which owns both WWNY (CBS) and WNYF (Fox), would be able to get a third major network affiliation like NBC in the same market; WWTI (ABC and CW) would not have the bandwidth to add an NBC stream unless they run it in standard definition. WTKJ-LP might be able to do it once they finish converting their analog low power plant to DTV... but their coverage area is pretty limited, tailing off around Adams on one side and Antwerp on the other... and they might not have the resources to grow beyond a low power station.

As far as WNPI goes, there's no particular incentive for them to change their virtual channel number: their coverage area, centered in Norwood, doesn't overlap WNYF-CA's, and it would be disruptive for the people who actually are in their coverage area. In many ways it would make more sense for WNYF to adopt their physical channel (35) as their virtual channel when they go digital.
DTV_Engineer_Syr is offline  
post #104 of 113 Old 04-03-2012, 10:55 AM
Newbie
 
gmd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV_Engineer_Syr View Post

WTKJ-LP might be able to do it once they finish converting their analog low power plant to DTV.

As far as WNPI goes, there's no particular incentive for them to change their virtual channel number: their coverage area, centered in Norwood, doesn't overlap WNYF-CA's, and it would be disruptive for the people who actually are in their coverage area. In many ways it would make more sense for WNYF to adopt their physical channel (35) as their virtual channel when they go digital.

Thanks for the update.

WTKJ-LP will not reach Canada. I guess the only option up here is WPTZ.

As for WNPI, I was refering to WNYF-LD on channel 18 (WNPI's old transmission gear).

-gmd1
gmd1 is offline  
post #105 of 113 Old 04-03-2012, 10:37 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Trip in VA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA, US | Age: 25
Posts: 14,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 57
Send a message via AIM to Trip in VA Send a message via Yahoo to Trip in VA
WTKJ-LP is owned by EICB, and so will almost certainly air religion.

WNPI's mapping is 100% compliant with FCC rules.

- Trip

N4MJC

Comments are my own and not that of the FCC (my employer) or anyone else.

RabbitEars

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand..." - Rush "Witch Hunt"

Trip in VA is offline  
post #106 of 113 Old 05-02-2012, 09:48 AM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just a heads up that United Communications has applied to the FCC go to 42 kW.
tvlurker is offline  
post #107 of 113 Old 06-11-2012, 07:19 AM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The increase in power to 42 kW on WWNY-DT on channel 7 in Watertown has been approved, and according to Jim Corbin over at WWNY, they hope to be running with the new power sometime this Fall.
tvlurker is offline  
post #108 of 113 Old 06-11-2012, 02:23 PM
Member
 
DTV_Engineer_Syr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Increasing the ERP from 24.9kW to 42kW probably won't make a noticeable difference to most people: it's an increase of only about 2.27dB. If you compare the FCC's 36dBu service contour maps for the current license versus the new construction permit you see that there is very little geographic increase. This power increase might improve fade margin a bit for existing viewers, but it isn't likely to add significant numbers of potential new viewers.

Unfortunately, the most visible change will be to the station's electricity bill.
DTV_Engineer_Syr is offline  
post #109 of 113 Old 06-11-2012, 02:35 PM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't disagree, but on VHF Hi, every little bit helps. Here in Canada, we have VHF-Hi stations doddering along at 3.5 kW, so 42 kW would be heaven!

In the Ottawa area, this power increase decreases the difference in Noise Margin between the South Colton repeater on channel 18, and the direct channel 7 broadcast. Channel 18 is hampered in many areas of Ottawa by adjacent channel interference from local channel 17. Adding even 2 dB of increased margin on channel 7 opens additional possibilities for some people to the south and west of Ottawa.
tvlurker is offline  
post #110 of 113 Old 06-11-2012, 03:16 PM
Member
 
DTV_Engineer_Syr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
WWNY's slightly increased fade margin would apply to the hop from Watertown to South Colton, but the output of WNYF-LD (channel 18) remains at 4kW -- so there won't be any relative change between that signal versus your local channel 17.

As a practical matter, the 57-mile path from WWNY's transmitter to the South Colton tower is pretty long, but it is line of sight. Assuming that the receive antenna is mounted sufficiently high on the tower, fade margin is a non-issue even at the original power level. Even accounting for feedline loss, a halfway decent chanel 7 yagi antenna in South Colton can deliver enough signal to run the receiver with a far greater fade margin than environmental conditions would create. What won't materially improve is the problem with impulse noise; to overcome that decisively would take moving WWNY out of the VHF band.
DTV_Engineer_Syr is offline  
post #111 of 113 Old 06-12-2012, 12:37 PM
Member
 
tvlurker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Nepean, ON
Posts: 119
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sorry, I don't think I was clear when I was talking about comparing channel 18 and channel 7 noise margins. I didn't mean the off-air pickup of channel 7 on the South Colton tower for re-transmission by channel 18.
What I meant was that in many areas of Ottawa, the Noise Margin for channel 18 was -2 to 10 dB better than channel 7 (and really, much worse since the TVFool Noise Margins underestimate the VHF-Hi noise floor).
Now, in some locations, the ability to receive channel 7 may be improved over the ability to receive channel 18.

For people who whose only chance of getting channel 7 is with a roof or tower-mounted yagi, do you still think that local electrical noise would still be a big problem (assuming there is not a nearby noisy transformer in the path to Watertown). I understand that low gain or indoor antennas would be swamped by impulse noise (most people have trouble getting local channel 9 with 3.5 kW even though Longley-Rice predicts outdoor (thermal) noise margins in the 45-50 dB range), but would a sufficiently directive yagi be as susceptible to off-axis impulse noise?

The bottom line is that a 2.5 dB improvement is, as you say negligible, but it will be an improvement for those few whose real (thermal + impulse) noise margin is just below a useable fade margin.
tvlurker is offline  
post #112 of 113 Old 06-12-2012, 01:05 PM
Member
 
DTV_Engineer_Syr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You raise a good point about off-axis noise rejection. If you consider a CATV-grade antenna like the Blonder Tongue 10-element tuned channel 7 yagi, that model delivers 13.2dBi of gain with a horizontal beamwidth of 51°. At a distance of 90 miles, that means the antenna "sees" an area about 43 miles to either side of the tower... so I rather imagine that the area within the beamwidth includes most of the high tension lines and substations between Ottawa and the hydroelectric station in Massena... plus whatever is happening at Fort Drum. Definitely not optimal conditions for reception!

So I guess that a 2dB increase is better than nothing, after all!

Regards,

Jeff
DTV_Engineer_Syr is offline  
post #113 of 113 Old 05-20-2013, 12:46 PM
Newbie
 
xxgrundyxx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am in the Watertown, NY area and unable to find the WWNYDT or WWNYDT2 channels. Does anyone know what qam frequency they are on?

I have attached my spreadsheet of the channels I have tested.

20130515_Media_Center_Channel_Listing.xlsx 12k .xlsx file .
xxgrundyxx is offline  
Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off