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post #3841 of 3867 Old 09-29-2014, 11:13 AM
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Thanks. I'll check it out.

Also had some weirdness with Fox 29 last night before Simpsons/Family Guy, but the signal jumped back up to 85% once I turned the XBox off.

This isn't Philly specific so maybe I shouldn't ask here, but real quick, could a device cause interference even if it's asleep? I have both the XBox One and Wii U beneath the TV (and an audio receiver that currently isn't plugged in). Will either of them cause interference with the Mohu Leaf when "powered down?" (They're basically asleep when you hit the Power button. I think they'd have to be unplugged to fully power down).

I felt like Fox 29's reception got better once I simply "turned off" the XBox One, but I was curious if that reception would get even better if the device was unplugged.
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post #3842 of 3867 Old 09-30-2014, 05:45 AM
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TV Fool report is here.
This TV Fool link is for Colorado, not Eagleville.
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post #3843 of 3867 Old 10-10-2014, 07:24 AM
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MiND considering going off the air

This is bad news. Yesterday I got the following email:
Greetings!

I trust you are enjoying MiND's unique combination of international, music, documentary and short-form programming. We are contemplating some changes, so we are scheduling a series of viewer-input telephone conference calls next week. I hope you will find an hour to join us (the schedule is below).

Last week, the FCC (the Federal government agency which controls TV and radio licenses) contacted every TV station in the U.S. The FCC wants to purchase many TV broadcast licenses in order to supply wireless telephone carriers (such as Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, etc.) with additional bandwidth. This bandwidth will enable better cell phone service and improved video-on-demand on mobile devices.

As you may know, our TV license is owned and operated by a nonprofit organization. The decision to continue as a broadcaster will be made by this organization's Board of Directors. This is completely our organization's decision. The government agency is simply making an offer to all stations; some stations will choose to accept the offer, and some will not.

The television industry is changing. Many of the programs seen on MiND's channels are also available on the Internet, Netflix, and through other sources. As a result, we are beginning to question whether we should continue as a television station.

If we decide to stop broadcasting, we plan to invest the funds to develop new and exciting forms of public media for television, the Internet and other venues. Regardless of whether we continue to operate a TV station, our mission remains the same: to help people learn and understand the world.

And if we decide to stop broadcasting, we plan to find a new home for most of the programs and MiND channels so that you will be able to continue to watch them with minimal interruption.

If you are interested in joining us for one of these conversations, please send an email to
feedback@mindtv.org with this information:

(1) Name
(2) Zip Code
(3) Email address
(4) Session you would like to attend:
Session A: Tuesday, October 14, 2PM - 3PM
Session B: Wednesday, October 15, 10AM - 11 AM
Session C: Wednesday, October 15, 4PM - 5 PM

Please note "RSVP CEO CALL" in the subject line of your e-mail. When we receive your information, we will send you the conference call phone number and a passcode to join the call.

If you have questions, or would like to schedule an individual conversation, please send an email to the above address and we'll set up a time to talk.

Thank you for watching the MiND channels, and for your willingness to participate in this important decision.

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post #3844 of 3867 Old 10-13-2014, 12:43 PM
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Lo-VHF Question

I've been using the RCA ANT751 for a few years and always got good reception on all channels, including RF6 (ABC) and more recently the new RF2, however, lately, I've been getting no signal at all on these 2 channels from time to time. Is anyone else noticing anything different with these 2 lo-vhf channels? I know the ANT751 is not built for lo-vhf, but I've always had reliable reception until recently. All other channels are OK.

Also, are there any ways to improve the lo-VHF signal strength with the ANT 751? I'm in a strong signal area and this antenna has always picked them up.
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post #3845 of 3867 Old 10-14-2014, 05:58 AM
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Also, are there any ways to improve the lo-VHF signal strength with the ANT 751? I'm in a strong signal area and this antenna has always picked them up.
Is it in an attic (where you can get at it conveniently) or on the roof? If you can reasonably access it, you might try extending the longest active element (looks like the one in the back is active, but I can't quite tell from the photos of this unit) by about 2 feet on each side using some stiff copper wire (e.g.: 12 gauge solid THHN from the hardware store). The wavelengths of VHF-LO require considerably longer dipole elements than VHF-HI or UHF.
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post #3846 of 3867 Old 10-14-2014, 07:39 PM
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Is it in an attic (where you can get at it conveniently) or on the roof? If you can reasonably access it, you might try extending the longest active element (looks like the one in the back is active, but I can't quite tell from the photos of this unit) by about 2 feet on each side using some stiff copper wire (e.g.: 12 gauge solid THHN from the hardware store). The wavelengths of VHF-LO require considerably longer dipole elements than VHF-HI or UHF.
Would that work without modifying the reflector and director elements?
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post #3847 of 3867 Old 10-14-2014, 09:10 PM
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Would that work without modifying the reflector and director elements?
Antenna design is a black art - I'm simply suggesting a hack that "might" work for Joe. His antenna does not appear particularly sophisticated and he's in a strong signal area; so the point was, if he can get at it easily, it's something that's simple and worth a try, not something that's going to turn it magically into a full-fledged VHF-LO antenna. We've got folks here that swear by paperclip and coat hanger antennas

I might also add that Joe should also try rotating the antenna slightly in each direction to see if that helps.

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post #3848 of 3867 Old 10-15-2014, 05:03 AM
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Antenna design is a black art - I'm simply suggesting a hack that "might" work for Joe. His antenna does not appear particularly sophisticated and he's in a strong signal area; so the point was, if he can get at it easily, it's something that's simple and worth a try, not something that's going to turn it magically into a full-fledged VHF-LO antenna. We've got folks here that swear by paperclip and coat hanger antennas

I might also add that Joe should also try rotating the antenna slightly in each direction to see if that helps.
Thanks. I don't mean to hijack Joe's conversation but I have the same antenna in my attic and VHF 6 and 12 are the weakest channels. Some day if I get some time I might try extending the elements and see what happens.
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post #3849 of 3867 Old 10-15-2014, 01:28 PM
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If anyone has some specific ideas on adding some lo-VHF gain to the ANT751, I'd be willing to try it. Also, there was an antenna I remember seeing on one of the antenna websites a year or so ago. It was exactly like the ANT751 with an additional element or 2 for lo-VHF. The front end was identical to the 751. Does anyone remember seeing this and recall the maker?
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post #3850 of 3867 Old 10-19-2014, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeWS View Post
I've been using the RCA ANT751 for a few years and always got good reception on all channels, including RF6 (ABC) and more recently the new RF2, however, lately, I've been getting no signal at all on these 2 channels from time to time. Is anyone else noticing anything different with these 2 lo-vhf channels? I know the ANT751 is not built for lo-vhf, but I've always had reliable reception until recently. All other channels are OK.

Also, are there any ways to improve the lo-VHF signal strength with the ANT 751? I'm in a strong signal area and this antenna has always picked them up.
I also have an ANT751 mounted in my attic. I am exactly 30 miles from the Roxborough towers (Douglassville). I would get 85% signal strength on 6.1 (ABC) and ~60% signal strength on the 2's (MeTV, Grit and Escape). The 2's would blip out occasionally but were still completely watchable.

However, starting a few nights ago I can no longer get a consistent picture on MeTV, Grit or Escape (2.1, 2.2 and 2.3). They are completely pixelated and unwatchable. I thought it may just be weather related however this morning (Oct. 19 @ 10:30am), the weather is perfect and I still face the same issue. 6.1 (ABC) still comes in strong as ever but the 2's remain the same.

I also have an HDHomerun and I noticed an oddity with it. When I launch the config app for the hdhomerun and navigate to 2.1, my signal strength is still in the 60% range, but, the Symbol Quality is 0%. This was never the case before. 6.1 stills clocks in a 86% Signal Quality and 100% Symbol Quality.

Did KJWP (2.1, 2.2 and 2.3) make some kind of change recently? My only other thought is the wind...it has been pretty strong this morning. Could that be a factor? I tend to think not since it has never caused a problem before.

John
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post #3851 of 3867 Old 10-19-2014, 09:30 AM
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It was exactly like the ANT751 with an additional element or 2 for lo-VHF. The front end was identical to the 751. Does anyone remember seeing this and recall the maker?
That was likely the Winegard HD7000R which has been discontinued. You *might* get lucky and find someone who still has it in stock.

For very little money, you can get an AntennaCraft AC-9 and it will support short-range VHF, both low and high band as well as some UHF. You'll probably have to also order or supply a balun, I forget.
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post #3852 of 3867 Old 10-19-2014, 09:31 AM
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I'm getting this at the moment, though Symbol Quality sometimes fluctuates dramatically.

Watchable as of 11:30.
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post #3853 of 3867 Old 10-19-2014, 10:33 AM
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I'm getting this at the moment, though Symbol Quality sometimes fluctuates dramatically.

Watchable as of 11:30.
This is what I am up against. Honestly, I never took notice to what the Signal Quality was previously when it was working fine. But you can see that the Symbol Quality is 0%.

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post #3854 of 3867 Old 10-19-2014, 05:13 PM
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Might want to peek in the attic and make sure the antenna/wire hasn't moved/fallen.
Hopefully, it's something simple.

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post #3855 of 3867 Old 10-20-2014, 08:30 AM
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Might want to peek in the attic and make sure the antenna/wire hasn't moved/fallen.
Hopefully, it's something simple.
I plan on it. However, all other channels are still coming in strong as ever. If the antenna moved I would expect them to dip also.

But I'll still take a peek.

John
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post #3856 of 3867 Old 11-12-2014, 05:20 PM
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Channel 6: No Signal in Paoli ?

Yesterday (Monday) WPVI-6.1 was breaking up. Viewable, but just barely.

Today, we are getting "No Signal".

3, 10, 12.... no problems.

Are we the only ones?

Paoli PA
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post #3857 of 3867 Old 11-12-2014, 06:16 PM
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WPVI-6 OK here in central Chester County. Check for loose cable connection - will have max effect at low VHF.
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post #3858 of 3867 Old 11-12-2014, 06:16 PM
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Peter, Channel 6 broadcasts on Real Channel 6, which really requires a Lo-VHF antenna. The other channels you mentioned, 3 and 10 broadcast on UHF channels and 12 broadcasts on Hi-VHF, Channel 12. So your antenna might be to blame.

But I wonder. For over a year, I got Channel 6 with my ANT751 with no problems. I always had a signal. Now for the past month, Channel 6 is a no-show most of the time. I can't figure out why? The antenna is for UHF and Hi-VHF but 6 was always there. At 15 miles from the towers, the signals are strong. here.

To get 6 on a reliable basis, we need to add an antenna that will provide some gain on Lo-VHF. I'm still thinking about it but haven't tried anything yet. My antenna is on a 10ft pole above the roofline.
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post #3859 of 3867 Old 11-13-2014, 02:33 PM
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Peter, Channel 6 broadcasts on Real Channel 6, which really requires a Lo-VHF antenna. The other channels you mentioned, 3 and 10 broadcast on UHF channels and 12 broadcasts on Hi-VHF, Channel 12. So your antenna might be to blame.

But I wonder. For over a year, I got Channel 6 with my ANT751 with no problems. I always had a signal. Now for the past month, Channel 6 is a no-show most of the time. I can't figure out why? The antenna is for UHF and Hi-VHF but 6 was always there. At 15 miles from the towers, the signals are strong. here.

To get 6 on a reliable basis, we need to add an antenna that will provide some gain on Lo-VHF. I'm still thinking about it but haven't tried anything yet. My antenna is on a 10ft pole above the roofline.
We have been getting channel 6 on a "Channel Master 4228 UHF 8-Bay HDTV Antenna (Long-range)" antenna for at least 10 years. We have had occasional episodes of pixellation, but never zero like this.

Overnight the problem has gone away. No action by Yours Truly... it just works now. Signal quality isn't great (50% or so viz: Tiny URL dot com/op2585l, but at least it's there and there is no pixellation.

I used to suspect trees/branches, but was never able to correlate episodes of pixellation with any change in that respect.

Seems to me that if an interruption like this (no signal for over 24 hours) were anything but very local the station would be losing huge bucks and we would hear about it on the evening news.

OTOH if you took everything I know about TV technology, rolled it into a ball, and set it on the edge of a razor blade it would look like a golf ball in the middle of the New Jersey Turnpike....so maybe I shouldn't over think this.

Question: If we were to put up a Low-VHF antenna, could it be run in parallel with the existing one? i.e. one coax feeding the tuners and best signal wins? Or would we be having to switch antennas when we switch between channel 6 and the UHF/High-VHF channels?


Tangentially, I wonder how such a big outfit as ABC got stuck with such a poor frequency - I would think they would have paid somebody off by now and moved to better territory at the expense of some smaller player. Maybe things are not quite as grim as I think they are.... -)

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post #3860 of 3867 Old 11-13-2014, 03:12 PM
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Question:

Tangentially, I wonder how such a big outfit as ABC got stuck with such a poor frequency - I would think they would have paid somebody off by now and moved to better territory at the expense of some smaller player. Maybe things are not quite as grim as I think they are.... -)
ABC made a poor engineering decision by choosing to remain on VHF in major markets like NYC, Philly, LA, Chicago. They thought there wouldn't be interference and save money on power. Luckily in Chicago, they were able to move to UHF while other markets continued to suffer. They lost tons of OTA viewers as a result.

http://tvtechnology.com/news/0110/tv...hannel-/201146
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post #3861 of 3867 Old 11-13-2014, 05:08 PM
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ABC made a poor engineering decision by choosing to remain on VHF in major markets like NYC, Philly, LA, Chicago. They thought there wouldn't be interference and save money on power. Luckily in Chicago, they were able to move to UHF while other markets continued to suffer. They lost tons of OTA viewers as a result.

http://tvtechnology.com/news/0110/tv...hannel-/201146
Do you ever experience interference between WPVI and WRGB in New York state, which is also on RF6? After the digital transition, there was some concern about whether boosting WPVI's power would create interference with WRGB.
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post #3862 of 3867 Old 11-13-2014, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyctveng View Post
ABC made a poor engineering decision by choosing to remain on VHF in major markets like NYC, Philly, LA, Chicago. They thought there wouldn't be interference and save money on power. Luckily in Chicago, they were able to move to UHF while other markets continued to suffer. They lost tons of OTA viewers as a result.

http://tvtechnology.com/news/0110/tv...hannel-/201146
My impression was, and I could be wrong, that ABC chose high VHF in the cases where its stations were on high-VHF, but was stuck on channel 6 with nowhere else to go in the case of Philadelphia. I recall they objected to WCAU's agreement with WYBE for channel 34 claiming that they also needed a replacement channel.

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post #3863 of 3867 Old 11-14-2014, 07:07 AM
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ABC made a poor engineering decision by choosing to remain on VHF in major markets like NYC, Philly, LA, Chicago. They thought there wouldn't be interference and save money on power. Luckily in Chicago, they were able to move to UHF while other markets continued to suffer. They lost tons of OTA viewers as a result.

tvtechnology.com/news/0110/tv-and-the-mystique-of-channel-/201146
Thanks for the interesting link.  Once again I find that things aren't even remotely as black-and-white as they seem on the surface.  I wonder if there is an expression for this - sort of a counterpoint to Occam's Razor.

Last edited by PeteCress; 11-14-2014 at 07:33 AM.
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post #3864 of 3867 Old 11-14-2014, 07:35 AM
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That would be SNAFU.

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post #3865 of 3867 Old 11-14-2014, 07:47 PM
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At least I can get 'PVI OTA. I can't even get a signal meter chirp for another VHS channel, WHYY up here 5 miles north of Exton.
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post #3866 of 3867 Old 11-14-2014, 09:07 PM
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At least I can get 'PVI OTA. I can't even get a signal meter chirp for another VHS channel, WHYY up here 5 miles north of Exton.
You are indeed at the least favorable angle in the WHYY-DT antenna pattern (about 7dB down from those of us to the east of Roxborough): http://www.rabbitears.info/pattern.p...ation=0&erp=30

At least WPVI's antenna is omnidirectional.

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post #3867 of 3867 Old 11-15-2014, 11:25 AM
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WPVI RF6 Problem resolved

Earlier I reported loss of RF6, RF2, and also RF9 from Bethlehem with my RCA ANT741 here in Haddonfield, NJ 08033. I'm about 15 miles from towers in Philly and 52 miles from hte Lehigh Valley stations. The antenna is on the roof, about 9 feet above the roof line on a 10 foot pole mounted on the eave. I also use a CM 7777 preamp which really helps with the more distant signals. This is a 1 story house.

After getting several responses, at Ohio41's suggestion, I checked all fittings from hte antenna down to the TV. Nothing was out of order and no change. But I then took a step ladder on hte roof and disconnected both balun lugs on the antenna and sanded them adn put them back on nice and snug. All problems disappeared. RF6 is back as is RF2 and RF9 in Bethlehem, PA.

Thanks to all for the help.
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