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post #3991 of 4016 Old 12-28-2015, 06:13 PM
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Worst thing is that they couldn't care less.

I get WLVT (39) and NJN (23) all the time OTA, (and WPVI-6) but never WHYY.
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post #3992 of 4016 Old 12-29-2015, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
WFMZ was able to get 45 because they agreed to accept interference from themselves and they made it highly directional to prevent interference to others. They held a permit for 0.2 kW on channel 47 which was never built (and was severely directional to protect WPMT), and they held a permit for channel 51 in Redding which was all of 0.007 kW, less than even a common LED lightbulb, let alone an incandescent. Both permits were filed for a week before the DTV conversion, meaning before WPVI and WHYY were strictly aware there was a problem, and both were never built.

And 46 is, of course, their own channel from before the transition.

There are no channels available.

- Trip
Trip - What is the problem with the VHF band that you are referring to? If you've posted it before, please refer me to that. Just curious. I am in Western Chester county a bit further from Philly that some of the others that have complained about reception, but I get both WPVI and WHYY with an antenna INSIDE my attic with no problems at all. So I'm not seeing any problem. (I can pick up WGAL from Harrisburg area on the backside of the antenna most days, but I dont know if they are UHF or not.)
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post #3993 of 4016 Old 12-29-2015, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edfiero View Post
Trip - What is the problem with the VHF band that you are referring to? If you've posted it before, please refer me to that. Just curious. I am in Western Chester county a bit further from Philly that some of the others that have complained about reception, but I get both WPVI and WHYY with an antenna INSIDE my attic with no problems at all. So I'm not seeing any problem. (I can pick up WGAL from Harrisburg area on the backside of the antenna most days, but I dont know if they are UHF or not.)
VHF channels have well known reception problems, particularly with indoor antennas which studies show make up 75-80% of the antenna market. The issues are reduced, but not eliminated, with outdoor antennas. VHF channels are much more susceptible to interference from lightning and electronic devices, need larger antennas for similar reception to UHF channels, and tend to have a much harder time penetrating buildings in general. They also tended to have power levels that many would argue are too low, but four power boosts later, WGAL seems happy with what they have. WPVI, two power boosts later, still isn't happy and wanted a third that was not granted. Many stations have not gotten power boosts they probably need.

Glad to hear it works for you.

- Trip
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post #3994 of 4016 Old 12-29-2015, 07:44 AM
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WGAL is VHF
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post #3995 of 4016 Old 12-29-2015, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
VHF channels have well known reception problems, particularly with indoor antennas which studies show make up 75-80% of the antenna market....
- Trip
Thanks for the explanation. I don't doubt you, but it seems counter to the impression that the legit (network) channels were almost always on VHF, while independent channels were on UHF. That's how it always was in here in Philly, and when I lived in Iowa in the early 80's there were NO UHF channels in our area even with the best Fringe Winegard antenna. If VHF is inherently inferior, why didn't the networks use UHF to begin with?
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post #3996 of 4016 Old 12-29-2015, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edfiero View Post
Thanks for the explanation. I don't doubt you, but it seems counter to the impression that the legit (network) channels were almost always on VHF, while independent channels were on UHF. That's how it always was in here in Philly, and when I lived in Iowa in the early 80's there were NO UHF channels in our area even with the best Fringe Winegard antenna. If VHF is inherently inferior, why didn't the networks use UHF to begin with?
Short answer: Technological advances change everything.

The long answer is kind of involved. In the 1950's, UHF receivers were awful, the transmitter technology wasn't there to make really high power levels on UHF, and most people had outdoor antennas on their TVs anyway. In addition, there were fewer electronics in the home in general meaning less electrical interference, and most importantly, analog had a graceful decline when the signal got weak. You could often still hear the audio even if the video was unwatchable. With digital, you need the equivalent of a pretty watchable analog picture in order to get a decode of any kind. You can't simply choose to squint through the black "No Signal" screen and watch your show.

Today, UHF equipment is as good as VHF equipment, and in some cases better, on both the transmit and receive side. More people use indoor antennas now than did back then, and many of the outdoor antennas made optimize for UHF and not VHF (many don't support low-VHF at all). The explosion of consumer electronics has raised the noise floor significantly on VHF. And, of course, digital having the sharp cutoff at 15 dB SNR means that a weak signal which was usable with analog is not usable with digital.

- Trip
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post #3997 of 4016 Old 12-29-2015, 10:18 AM
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This summer, I put up a low-VHF antenna on my roof to see if I could pick up an e-skip. One issue I noticed sometimes is that there was a source of interference I could not identify. It was causing squiggly lines which appeared on my analog TV, and was no doubt messing with digital signals too. I turned off everything in the house I could possibly think of, but it still wasn't going away. Turning off the dimmable lights helped, but I figured it was probably coming from outside my property. And that's the problem with low-VHF... you may live in an area where the signal is good, but one little bit of interference can wipe the digital signal away.

I did manage to pick up some digital signals via e-skip, but it only occurred when there was no interference. Otherwise, all I saw was a sub-decode.

Regarding high-VHF channels 7-13, like WHYY. I'm not sure I understand the problem. I know most of those pretty ineffective indoor antennas you buy nowadays, aren't designed for high-VHF. But all I needed was a simple dipole here in the Akron/Cleveland market to get the high-VHF channels well enough... an antenna that's actually designed for high-VHF. And high-VHF doesn't suffer interference problems like the low-VHF channels do. An issue worth mentioning... I did have problems with nearby FM towers interfering with the high-VHF channels, but a cheap FM filter solved that.

Last edited by Andrew K; 12-29-2015 at 10:23 AM.
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post #3998 of 4016 Old 01-01-2016, 02:00 PM
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Wphl dt4

Hey Trip

I just was looking thru my zap2it schedule and saw that The Outer Limits is currently on WPHL DT4 and that Killer Klowns From Outer Space is coming up at 4:00. This used to be Mummers TV and now had a different logo shown on zap2it (I think) which I couldn't make out so I used my magnifier program to blow it up and it looks like it says "Tango."

I couldn't find any such TV network, but has WPHL changed from Mummers TV?

Is there a "Tango TV" or am I reading it wrong?

Thanks and have a happy new year.

P.S. - Your Rabbit Ears site has them still listed as Mummers TV.

What, me worry?
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post #3999 of 4016 Old 01-01-2016, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post
Hey Trip

... I used my magnifier program to blow it up and it looks like it says "Tango."
I shudda tuned in before I posted. I just did now and I see that it's "Comet" (for Comet TV).

http://comettv.com/

I tuned in cuz Killer Klowns is one of my fav flicks.

What, me worry?
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post #4000 of 4016 Old 01-01-2016, 03:11 PM
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I've updated now. I had suspected that WPHL might pick up Comet on 17-4 but had no information to support it. Thanks for letting me and everyone else here know.

- Trip

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post #4001 of 4016 Old 01-01-2016, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
... I had suspected that WPHL might pick up Comet on 17-4 but had no information to support it... - Trip
I'm guessing it just happened today; that is, as of the new year.

I won't hardly be missing Mummers TV, that's for sure.

What, me worry?
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post #4002 of 4016 Old 01-01-2016, 09:09 PM
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It's probably a package deal with Tribune and Comet TV. WCCT-TV channel 20-3 of Waterbury/Hartford now carries it. (They are the sister station of Tribune-owned WTIC-TV (FOX) channel 61 of Hartford.)
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post #4003 of 4016 Old 01-07-2016, 01:43 PM
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FCC Incentive Auction / Repacking

Does anyone have information or guesses as to which Philadelphia stations are going to sell their spectrum and go off the air? My understanding is that there will be an auction on 3/29/2016 followed by a mandatory repacking (reassignment of channels). Of particular concern to me is MiND TV (WYBE, virtual channel 35), which has an article about the FCC auction on their website here: http://www.mindtv.org/2015/explainin...ctrum-auction/. MiND was sending out feelers and asking for feedback some months ago. I would hate to see them go off the air. Some of the content that I watch on 35.4 RT such as Boom Bust and the Keiser Report is made available online, but only after a lengthy time delay from when it is broadcast over the air.

This can't be good for over the air, even if those of us who depend on OTA are "only" 10-20% of households.

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post #4004 of 4016 Old 01-07-2016, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by otaguy View Post
Does anyone have information or guesses as to which Philadelphia stations are going to sell their spectrum and go off the air?
Are they all getting offers?

"In Philadelphia, the FCC’s top-dollar opening bid is for KYW-TV (CBS-3): up to $700 million for going off-air. It’s $663 million for WPHL (PHL 17), and not much less — $646 million — for WCAU (NBC 10)."
From:
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/201...ns-to-go-dark/
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post #4005 of 4016 Old 01-07-2016, 02:11 PM
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I think they do all get offers.
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post #4006 of 4016 Old 01-07-2016, 08:41 PM
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KJWP-TV 2 Wilmington has filed to sell the station to Maranatha Broadcasting WFMZ-TV Allentown.
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post #4007 of 4016 Old 01-08-2016, 07:29 AM
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That's good. 'FMZ is very watchable. Like their news a lot.
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post #4008 of 4016 Old 01-17-2016, 02:02 PM
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Kennett Square, Chester County, PA, 27.1 miles from Philly antennas. Big old (25+ years) antenna in attic, worked great for years before government "improved" my signal with digital. Can no longer deal with cable companies or cost. But now I can NOT get channel 12 (WHYY) at all and channel 3 (CBS) breaks up. Other channels (Fox, ABC, NBC, etc) are fine. Really, really miss WHYY (PBS, 12), be nice to also have channel 3 (CBS). What am I doing wrong, what can I do? Many thanks
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post #4009 of 4016 Old 01-17-2016, 02:13 PM
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Getting the antenna out of the attic and onto the roof would be a big help. If that is not an option, I would check the cable being used. RG6 has less loss than RG59, so I would make sure that's what you have and check all the connections. If you are serving more than 1 TV then a pre-amp or distribution amp might improve your signal strength as well. CBS3 broadcasts on UHF 33 and WHYY broadcasts on VHF 12. Minimize the length of the cable run too. Many times it is a trial and error thing to find the right solution for your location. Perhaps others in your area will have other ideas to help you
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post #4010 of 4016 Old 01-17-2016, 05:24 PM
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Thank you for helping. Much appreciated. Going outside the attic is not an option. I have now checked AntennaWeb.com and it would seem I am in a valley or something. My backyard neighbors 200 yards away, but higher up, have many more station options. So much for digital television and the promises from DC

Can someone recommend a good place to buy an antenna? I really can no longer deal with these "cable" companies..
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post #4011 of 4016 Old 01-18-2016, 05:59 AM
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WHYY's digital antenna pattern definitely favors the eastern suburbs. Although the western 'burbs aren't exactly in a null, I've seen a number of posts here about poor or non-existent reception out in your direction. Being in a valley is clearly adding to the problem. It's not at all guaranteed that putting even the best antenna in your attic is going to solve the problem. You might try adjusting antenna orientation by a few degrees at a time, assuming you've got it aimed at Roxborough now - you may have multipath issues.

Last edited by frank70; 01-18-2016 at 07:17 AM.
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post #4012 of 4016 Old 01-18-2016, 08:20 AM
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Thanks. I wondered if spending on a newer antenna (and perhaps even new cable) might just be 'good money after bad.' I don't understand why channel 3 (CBS) is so very poor and my tuner does not even see a channel 12 (WHYY)! It is like 12 doesn't exist yet I get channels 6, 10 etc fine. From where I am 26-27 miles away, all those antennas would seem to be a single point in the distance. I've used my old boy scout compass to aim the antenna at Roxborough. I will try some more targeting

My next trick is maybe to take a tv into the attic and connect directly with a very short coax cable to the antenna and see what happens while there. Anyone have other ideas? I assume all tvs have essentially the same reception capabilities? Appreciate the help.
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post #4013 of 4016 Old 01-18-2016, 08:46 AM
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After each adjustment (or TV change), you'll need to re-scan the TV. If you've scanned once and gotten no reception on channel 12, no amount of fiddling will get you channel 12 until you do a re-scan (you could move the TV to Manayunk and it would still get nothing without a re-scan). Once you've got channel 12 at least acknowledged during a scan, you won't need to do it again.

Also, make sure (if you are using a compass) to use the magnetic bearing to Roxborough, not the true bearing (i.e.: what you would see on a map). TVFool.com is showing a bearing of about 73.5 degrees magnetic (62 true) from Kennett Square to Roxborough (you might get better estimates by putting in your actual address).

Unlike WHYY, KYW's broadcast antenna is omni-directional and their signal is UHF, so I don't know what your problem is with receiving them, but re-aiming the antenna might still help. I spend days getting my attic antenna properly aimed after the first digital transition, and then again after the second, so don't give up.

Last edited by frank70; 01-18-2016 at 08:53 AM.
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post #4014 of 4016 Old 01-18-2016, 09:01 AM
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KYW is normally a very easy "get", and WHYY is nearly impossible in much of Chester County.

I'd focus on KYW and resign yourself to no WHYY. For what it's worth, I get WLVT and NJN perfectly here about 5 miles north of Exton, sitting in the Pickering Creek "valley".
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post #4015 of 4016 Old 01-18-2016, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LATV View Post
KJWP-TV 2 Wilmington has filed to sell the station to Maranatha Broadcasting WFMZ-TV Allentown.
That'll be good for me if it happens because ME-TV used to be on WFMZ, which I get very well, and the switch to KJWP resulted in very iffy reception for me, and often no watchable reception.

What, me worry?
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