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post #541 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

I'm not so sure that the February 2009 deadline will really happen. They've set deadlines before only to postpone. So when they say the transition is two years off, what they really mean is two years off until further notice. When we actually get to February 2009 the tranisition date will be sometime in 2011.......

Well, that's my other concern and also my question for WHYY. Assuming we're shooting for the present deadline date, will they be up and running sooner? If so, how much sooner?

Where are they in terms of the switch to digital ch 12? Not that it matters much, I suppose, because I imagine they won't be switching to digital 12 until after the deadline date -- they probably can't switch before that because they would thus be depriving their analog folks of any signal.

I have a LOT of questions for them. Why are they applying to the FCC to run ch 50 at lower power "to save money" if they didn't have to switch to that channel in the first place. That one poster said they had to relinquish 55 to another broadcaster, but that sounds like bull to me.

They were all set up on 55, so I can't imagine that the FCC told them they had to give that up and switch to 50. Maybe ultimately, but not when they did. And I doubt that. I doubt they are so out of touch that they went ahead and got all set up on 55 without any assurance that they'd be able to keep it until the transition date.

Am I stupid or something?

Who's broadcasting on 55 now? Anybody?

So they're whining about money and applying to the FCC to run 50 at lower power to save money, but they switched from 55 to 50 with all the costs necessitated by that. According to GG, they spent a LOT of money on this new antenna pattern for 50. So they spent a lot of money to transition to 50 from 55 so's they could apply to the FCC to run the new station at lower power to save money.

Am I missing something here?

If they indeed were forced to switch, that's one thing. But I'd be really surprised if that was indeed the case.
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post #542 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

.......Tip: When using the TV Query database, be sure to select "TV Query" from the Output list-it gives you a lot more info in one shot.

GG, thanks for advise. You are referring to the box down the page Brent gave me which says " Output -- Select TV Query or TV List," and has several choices for the user to choose from (highlight). You're saying to choose "TV Query," which provides "detailed output + CDBS links." So I'm using that one.

Found some interesting stuff already. I noticed that on the "Service Contour Map (41 dBu)" that you turned me on to, there's a star, which I assume is the actual antenna location. So I looked up WXTV, which is the only "NYC" station I was able to pick up when I pointed that way. It's actually a Paterson, NJ station, but the Service Contour Map shows the antenna located in the city -

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...DT1044097.html

So then I checked WWOR, which is a station I'd like to be getting, and its antenna is located at the same spot -

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/FMTV-serv...=DT975457.html

and it's operating on ch 38 at 170 kW ERP, whereas WXTV is ch 40 at 300 kW ERP. So since I'm getting WXTV (tho' barely), and since their antennas are located in basically the same place or exactly the same place, I assume I could be getting WWOR if they were putting out more power (and maybe raising their antenna a bit -- looks like there's an application to do that in the works).

I would assume that they will eventually be going to more power, yada yada, as the transition date approaches and arrives.

As it stands now, I'm clearly well inside WWOR's current service area as shown on their map. But I ain't gettin' it.
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post #543 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:


Q: Are We Not Men? A: We Are Devo! Alas, it's true. The Truth About De-Evolution has come to pass.

First, a totally objective response to that comment: I Am Woman (Ref: Helen Reddy)! Just remember that. This isn't the place to DE-VOlve the point further. OK, I feel much better now.

T-max: I hope I wasn't the only reason you deep-sixed your analog antenna. Getting spoiled with digital is the reason that I went UHF only. At the time, nobody was planning to use VHF for ATSC, so I stuck with the smaller antenna and UHF only preamp. Today, a few stations want to go back. There's a lot of good reasons to do so from an RF propagation perspective- VHF is highly coveted RF spectrum space.

It may help you to know that the "41 dBu" is 41 dB over a microvolt, or the recommended minimum signal strength for your TV to pick up the channel. There's a lot of info on how / why they picked this number. It's in the bowels of the FCC Engineering web site somewhere and probably not worth chasing.

The service contours appear to be omni (a circle). I'm not sure how the directional antenna is factored into it. I also don't know if there was any thought into accounting for terrain. If anyone knows, just jump in.
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post #544 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post


Who's broadcasting on 55 now? Anybody?

Channel 55 is in the spectrum that is to be freed when the DTV transition is complete. Some of this spectrum has already been auctioned by the government. I have heard stories about the purchasers 'buying out' the TV stations using their spectrum. They want to start using it now.

My guess is that the power and antenna pattern for Channel 50 was deliberately adjusted to prevent interference to other Channel 50 areas (NNJ). I believe WHYY is supposed to cover the Wilmington DE area. That's what I remember when I lived in Cherry Hill.

Guess you will need to view WHYY analog for a couple of years or maybe longer if the new Congress pushes back the DTV transition. I hope that doesn't happen.

--- CHAS

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.
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post #545 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by HIPAR View Post

Channel 55 is in the spectrum that is to be freed when the DTV transition is complete. Some of this spectrum has already been auctioned by the government. I have heard stories about the purchasers 'buying out' the TV stations using their spectrum. They want to start using it now.

Thanks for that info Chas. If you are correct it means WHYY go paid for 55. So they took the money and then turned around and screwed their loyal viewers.

Not saying that's what happened, but maybe that's what happened. They certainly gave up 55 and switched to 50. I'm reasonably confident that whoever it was that said they "had to relinquish it to another broadcaster" got that from WHYY.

GG, what do you make of this stuff on WNET (PBS ch 13 in NYC) -

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&slon2=&size=9

Looks to me like their digital info is "almost no power" and "Antenna Height Above Ground Level = 0."

Are they broadcasting OTA at all? They have digital subchannels and programming listed on Zap2it.

I'm afraid I lack the knowledge to properly interpret this information and would appreciate your expertise.



Oh, and I forgot this part -

Devo funded the music video for "Whip It" with $15,000 USD of their own money. The main visual of the video, Mark Mothersbaugh whipping the clothes off of a woman (Annerose Bücklers), was inspired by an article in a 1962 issue of "Dude" magazine. In an interview for Song Facts, Casale explains "There was a feature article on a guy who had been an actor and fell on hard times, he wasn't getting parts anymore. He moved with his wife to Arizona, opened a dude ranch and charged people money to come hang out at the ranch. Every day at noon in the corral, for entertainment, he'd whip his wife's clothes off with a 12-foot bullwhip. She sewed the costumes and put them together with Velcro. The story was in the magazine about how good he was and how he never hurt her. We had such a big laugh about it, we said, 'OK, that's the basis for the video. We'll have these cowboys drinking beer and cheering Mark on as he's in the barnyard whipping this pioneer woman's clothes off while the band plays in the corral.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_It

Now that's what I call good fun. A bunch of guys just settin' around drinkin' beer and watchin' some other guy whip the clothes off'n a woman. One of my personal favorite videos. Just recently captured it off The Tube, matter of fact. Ya gotta luv it, no?

Helen Reddy.... Hear me roar...

Gimme me a break.

ARE WE NOT MEN?!!

(just kidding)
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post #546 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

GG, what do you make of this stuff on WNET (PBS ch 13 in NYC) -

http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?state...&slon2=&size=9

Looks to me like their digital info is "almost no power" and "Antenna Height Above Ground Level = 0."

Are they broadcasting OTA at all? They have digital subchannels and programming listed on Zap2it.

I'm afraid I lack the knowledge to properly interpret this information and would appreciate your expertise.


Well, plugging in the lat & long into Mapquest's handy tool at http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp (remembering to change the west longitude to a negative number) you'll find that the first listing is for their former transmitter site atop the World Trade Center, sadly, no longer in use. Looking at the slightly higher latitude number in the second listing, I'd guess that's the current site atop the Empire State Building. Go by that entry.
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post #547 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by team_venture View Post

Well, plugging in the lat & long into Mapquest's handy tool at http://www.mapquest.com/maps/latlong.adp (remembering to change the west longitude to a negative number) you'll find that the first listing is for their former transmitter site atop the World Trade Center, sadly, no longer in use. Looking at the slightly higher latitude number in the second listing, I'd guess that's the current site atop the Empire State Building. Go by that entry.

Ya, I thought maybe all those same antenna locations down at the bottom of Manhattan meant that it was old data reflecting the antennas atop the WTC. I'm a little surprised they haven't updated their antenna location(s). So I wonder where that other station's antenna really is now.

Oops, NOW I see what you're saying -- to check the other entry for the current location. Sorry, I missed that the first time thru.

I said I was un-expertised.
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post #548 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by otaguy View Post

The Philadelphia Inquirer's TV Week, which comes with the Sunday paper, includes TV listings for cable TV and analog OTA, but not digital OTA. As far as they are concerned, digital OTA doesn't seem to exist.

Maybe it's because Comcast has everyone by the short hairs, you notice it's now the Comcast guide?? Same thing with Ch. 10, every stinking weathercast they say you can watch the weather on Comcast Ch. 248. (I have that memorized even though I don't have cable...) Why don't they say "and on digital 10-2"???? Oh, that's right, everyone has (or should have) Comcast cable!!! Yay!! OTA? What's that....
/sarcasm lol
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post #549 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 07:45 PM
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Here's an important definition, straight from the horse's mouth (FCC) - minus some editing to keep it simple: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/haat_calculator.html You can play with the calculator. It's fun, but watching TV is more interesting.

Antenna Height Above Average Terrain is commonly used in the prediction of coverage by television stations. FM and TV coverage may be extended or shortened in a given direction depending on the terrain in that direction. For example, a mountain may reduce service (as compared to flat terrain), while a valley may allow expanded coverage. The HAAT value represents an average of the terrain elevations within 16 km (10 miles) of the transmitter site, and so provides a single value on which general coverage calculations and regulatory requirements (such as station classes) may be based.

This is what they base those service contours on. In other words, that mountain in the way may not affect the calculation, since it's "on average" not much of an impact. However, you may be the only one with the problem.

Height Above Mean Sea Level (MSL): That's how high the antenna is relative to the ocean (sea level). Pilots use MSL as a common reference so they know exactly where the hills and mountains are.

Height Above Ground Level (AGL): The height above ground level is how high off the ground the antenna is.

Antenna Height Above Average Terrain: 500. meters HAAT
Antenna Height Above Mean Sea Level: 510. meters AMSL
Antenna Height Above Ground Level: 0. meters AGL

From the above info, this antenna is sitting on a hill that is 510 meters above sea level. The antenna is 0 meters above that, so it's right at the top of the hill. Since the HAAT is at 500 meters, on average, the antenna can see 10 m over the top of the surrounding terrain.

WNET-DT's digital station, channel 61, is listed as a "construction permit" at 219 kW ERP (Effective Radiated Power) with an omni antenna. No clue why it's in the Canadian Border Zone (height can reach Canada?).

However, there are 2 listings for an STA (Station Temporary Authorization) at 2.66 kW. Check the service contours for these puppies. It's not a circle and covers NYC. I can't tell you which applications are active, i.e. which license applies?

(update from team_venture's info) This jives with team_venture's statements about the WTC / Empire State Building. The antenna is 0 m above the hill-top. In this case, the roof of a building.
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post #550 of 3839 Old 01-29-2007, 08:55 PM
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This may explain what's going on with WHYY:

http://facilities.broadcastnewsroom....e.jsp?id=95387

'MediaFLO USA, a Qualcomm company, owns all the channel 55 spectrum in the U.S., negotiating to acquire content partners, and wholesale its video service to cellular carriers. MediaFLO is also working to clear analog stations from markets where they continue to operate but didn't specify how many markets are free of channel 55 broadcasters.'

Well, at least one has been cleared!

--- CHAS

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.
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post #551 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 04:49 AM
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Maybe someone should create a new "WHYY" forum for all that discussion. Seems that this discussion has gone around in circles for some time now.

Anyway, maybe this will help with the DTV transision , and on which band your station intends to land. The last column is the frequency where each station has applied to be in Feb 2009. Notice for Philadelphia (which excludes WHYY DELAWARE) everyone will be UHF except WPVI. So if you are buying an antenna, preamplifier or distribution amplifier in the near future you may want to get a UHF/VHF model although some UHF models do ok for some UHF frequencies also.

There is more information on that, if needed.

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...-06-1082A2.pdf
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post #552 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

....And I didn't see him mention how "And oh by the way, we significantly reduced our power to save $$$."

It's just my opinion (and gut) but I think a lot of folks are getting a lot of B.S. by a lot of folks over at WHYY.

If they had to cut back power due to cost constraints, as you suggested, whyy don't they just say that?

That would also be a courteous response. And it would be honest to boot. But sometimes folks would prefer to be courteous rather than honest. A spoonful of sugar makes the B.S. go down ......

(from my post # 516)

Here's an interesting little article I just found -

WHYY, the leading public broadcasting station serving Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware, has posted a $1.2 million surplus in fiscal year 2005. Unlike many other non-profit organizations throughout the Greater Philadelphia region who continue to face financial hardship, WHYY has secured financial stability, enabling it to further invest in programs and services its over 110,000 members and others in the community rely on, as well as position the station as a regional and national leader.

WHYY's $1.2 million surplus came on the heels of a $2,260,000 deficit in fiscal year 2004 and a $2,978,000 deficit in fiscal year 03. We have been implementing changes in the way we do business and connect with our television viewers and radio listeners for the last six years, said Bill Marrazzo, WHYY president and CEO. We are now starting to see how these strategic changes are positively impacting WHYY and will continue to help us remain a cash positive organization for years to come.

Changes at WHYY include a new brand management initiative that positions WHYY as more than a radio and television channel choice and provides people with meaningful face-to-face off-air experiences. We developed five separate departments that are each responsible for creating on-air and off-air programs and services for different community audiences, said Marrazzo. These include: Arts and Culture Service; News and Public Affairs Service; Children's Service; Adult Learning Service; and Wider Horizons, a service for adults over the age of 50.

WHYY's solid financial standing has allowed us to utilize the latest advances in technology to reach audiences, said Marrazzo. Audiences can currently access WHYY programming on two television channels, on radio, on the Web, on Comcast Video On Demand and through podcasting. WHYY has further expanded these distribution platforms with the recent launch of a second, HD Radio channel devoted to arts and culture, as well as news and public affairs. A third digital television channel, which will deliver the best in arts and culture programming, will premiere later in the year.

WHYY's 110,000 plus membership base is one of the region's largest. In fiscal year 05, WHYY net membership revenue increased by 3%, helping WHYY to continue to outpace other major market stations. Over a five-year period, WHYY increased membership revenue by 18%, compared to the other nine major market stations, whose average increase is less than 5%......


And there's more, so read on -

http://www.whyy.org/about/pressroom/...ss_success.doc

(but note it's a Microsoft Word document, just so's you know)

Like, for instance, this -

More than 1.2 million households tuned to WHYY TV12 once every week in fiscal year '05, a 2% increase over fiscal year '04. In addition, prime time audiences increased 7% over the previous fiscal year.

Doesn't seem like cutting back power to save $$ is consistent with trying to increase viewership. Of course, it's only us paltry OTA folks who are affected, no?
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post #553 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 10:47 AM
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This from a July 2004 story -

As WHYY celebrates its 50th anniversary this year, the station and its audience are looking back both on successes and embarrassments. WHYY has, in some sense, been a model for other public radio and television broadcasters. But over the years, WHYY has accepted money from agencies and used their spokespeople as experts or pundits. In at least one case, WHYY took underwriting money to broadcast environmental reporting that favored a state agency.

.......

"For everybody in public broadcasting right now, funding choices are hard. We're forced to think about money every day," says Paul Gluck, WHYY vice president and station manager. "We've had some problems in the past. But we're bringing stories and content that's not available in any other place. For 50 years, WHYY has been integral to the Philadelphia community."


http://www.citypaper.net/articles/20...08/cover.shtml

(emphasis mine)

If WHYY did switch to 50 as some sort of nod to the FCC, and got some $$ to do it, then I don't think they were acting in the best interests of the "Philadelphia community" which they claim to be an "integral" part of. What they did do (if that's what they did) is simply go back to their old (embarrassing) ways of going for the $$ in a not wholly appropriate manner.

And there's more in that story -

Within the decade, WHYY acquired UHF Channel 35 and Channel 12, a VHF signal out of Delaware. The station was in a unique position as a dual licenser in an era when media conglomerates had yet to rule. The fundamental idea behind WHYY had been to educate its audience. Local schools kept radios in their classrooms for shows about the alphabet and afternoon classical music.

Do they still own UHF 35? Could they not have gone digital on that (instead of 50)? At full power -- instead of having to reduce power to avoid so-called interference with Montclair NJ ch 50 (which is bunk).
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post #554 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 01:55 PM
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Been having a lot of problems with PVI lately, signal is dropping off more than ever. Used to come in around 95, now 87 and drops completely out for minutes.

Dave
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post #555 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheet Metal Man View Post

Been having a lot of problems with PVI lately, signal is dropping off more than ever. Used to come in around 95, now 87 and drops completely out for minutes.

Dude -

It's 6:12 PM and I'm getting it at ~ 93%, which is ~ 5% lower than normal.

That is all.

T.

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Kinda like an RS Model U-75R antenna, but smaller.
Getting 30 strong stations out of the Roxborough farm and Trenton (farm is ~50 miles away @ 233°)
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post #556 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Max View Post

Within the decade, WHYY acquired UHF Channel 35 and Channel 12, a VHF signal out of Delaware. The station was in a unique position as a dual licenser in an era when media conglomerates had yet to rule. The fundamental idea behind WHYY had been to educate its audience. Local schools kept radios in their classrooms for shows about the alphabet and afternoon classical music.

Do they still own UHF 35? Could they not have gone digital on that (instead of 50)? At full power -- instead of having to reduce power to avoid so-called interference with Montclair NJ ch 50 (which is bunk).

That is ancient history, which is why it's in the history section of their site. Under different ownership WYBE has been on Ch. 35 for about 15 years. WHYY didn't really use 35 much after they got Ch. 12, on which I believe Storer was going to build as a station back in the late 50s/early 60s. (I had an old map which showed the proposed tower site in Glassboro) I do remember that WHYY ran some classroom stuff on 35, maybe it was even during one of the teachers' strikes in the 70s. Anyway, WYBE is a totally different company from WHYY.
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post #557 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:06 PM
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No HD on Fox so far tonight....

I hope they fix it in time for House!
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post #558 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newsman View Post

I've reset my system multiple times (for other reasons), and the WHYY program/banner information still does not show up.

Hey, Newsman, I just noticed tonight that my 12-1's flipped on my H20 receiver! Maybe WHYY updated the PSIP or whatever, now I'm getting guide info on the channel with the video!! The "Regular schedule" channel now searches for the signal. Progress!!! Check your receiver.....
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post #559 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:22 PM
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is therea contact number for fox?? i have to get my House in HD
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post #560 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:23 PM
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I've been searching for a number for Fox too!

This number is for Fox news, haven't called it yet tho:
300 South Broad St, Philadelphia, PA 19102
(215) 732-6196
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post #561 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:24 PM
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Very annoying that they haven't fixed it in 25mins........
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post #562 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:25 PM
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OK that's NOT the number lol. I called and it was some Chinese woman. :X
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post #563 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:33 PM
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Fox News...(215) 923-6397

I'm on hold right now and they are playing the music for Bones how cool lol.

-Derek-
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post #564 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:40 PM
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NICEEE>.. finally HD
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post #565 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:41 PM
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weeeeeee, it's HD now!
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post #566 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:43 PM
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I was just getting ready to complain. This is why I'm so reluctant to give up DirecTV. Fox Ch.5 in New York got it right from the beginning.
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post #567 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:46 PM
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This has been the first time Fox screwed up since the beginning on the season, so I'll give them a break this time.

I did fire off an email via their website.

It's 2007, HD has been around for a long time so they should be able to get it by now...
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post #568 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanisrox69 View Post

This has been the first time Fox screwed up since the beginning on the season, so I'll give them a break this time.

I did fire off an email via their website.

It's 2007, HD has been around for a long time so they should be able to get it by now...

Yep. Just think... 2009 is just around the corner. And their still not ready for primetime digital!
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post #569 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanisrox69 View Post

No HD on Fox so far tonight....

I hope they fix it in time for House!

AI was totally HD, not a single issue here with fox. How is it you got a different signal than me? Fox has been perfect for months for me (knocking on big piece of wood)

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post #570 of 3839 Old 01-30-2007, 06:24 PM
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Are you pulling in WTXF Fox 29 Philly? Or some other Fox?
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