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post #271 of 4956 Old 05-30-2006, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by HLM507WFan View Post

LOL! The show started with the announcers saying it was being broadcast in HD! But ABC didnt broadcast it in HD? If that's the case (and I have no reason to doubt you) how can HD ever catch on if the networks are that screwed up? I can't imagine that it is cheap to produce shows like Grey's Anatomy, Desparate Housewives, Lost, etc., in HD, but what good is producing shows and sporting events in HD if the networks screw up and the locals dont care? How many posts have we read on these boards where the locals don't transmit in HD until someone on this board calls in and reminds them to do so? Sorry for the rant, but as much as we all like HD, I have to wonder what chance it has at all if the broadcast industry has this couldnt-care-less-attitude about it.

I don't care what the announcers said. Just shows their stupidity. Look at these threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=681967
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668981

As for the rest of your comments... You're preaching to the choir!
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post #272 of 4956 Old 05-30-2006, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by hdtvincr View Post

I don't care what the announcers said. Just shows their stupidity. Look at these threads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=681967
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=668981

As for the rest of your comments... You're preaching to the choir!

For the record, the moderator in that first thread says the Indy Racing League owns the telecast and the equipment, and that the league (not ABC) is responsible for not upgrading that particular telecast.

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post #273 of 4956 Old 05-31-2006, 11:56 AM
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GLAD to hear that the Indy 500 was NOT in HD - here I was bumming - was out of town, watched a bit on the delightful motel 24" spl. I was whining and feeling bad that I didn't get to catch the race in its 12' wide HD glory. Now I know there was no glory - is it any wonder that NASCAR is blowing away the IRL?

course, on the 3rd hand, is KCRG-DT back on the air again?

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post #274 of 4956 Old 06-01-2006, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingvee View Post

course, on the 3rd hand, is KCRG-DT back on the air again?

I flipped over to my antenna input this evening around 10:40 PM CDT, and saw that the digital transmitter was online again. I hadn't checked at all before that (I watch the KCRG news over analog, since it's 4:3 anyway).
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post #275 of 4956 Old 06-01-2006, 01:48 AM - Thread Starter
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By the CFU graphs, it appears to have come back in the late evening of Tuesday night. I asked my parents and they said ever since they lost KPXR, KCRG didn't cause their receiver to reboot. I'm now thinking the issue with the receiver is more a reception/signal issue than an actual PSIP weirdness one.

That brings to mind another couple of questions: 1.) Does anyone even watch KPXR-DT? and 2.) Is it really off the air, or have recent storms moved their antenna and I'll have to scale the roof again?

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post #276 of 4956 Old 06-01-2006, 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kc0bsn View Post

By the CFU graphs, it appears to have come back in the late evening of Tuesday night. I asked my parents and they said ever since they lost KPXR, KCRG didn't cause their receiver to reboot. I'm now thinking the issue with the receiver is more a reception/signal issue than an actual PSIP weirdness one.

That brings to mind another couple of questions: 1.) Does anyone even watch KPXR-DT? and 2.) Is it really off the air, or have recent storms moved their antenna and I'll have to scale the roof again?

To answer your questions (about KPXR):

1) Yes, if I'm home in the afternoon and one of the subchannels is running an old sitcom.

2) I just checked right now -- it is up, but it seems to be a little trickier for me to receive than it normally is. (KPXR and KFXA-Fox 28 have always had horrible multipath for me on analog just because of my indoor antenna and where I am. With digital I can usually get them.)

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post #277 of 4956 Old 06-01-2006, 03:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Cool, thanks dline. The house being in Butler County probably doesn't help things out too much. We've always had horrible reception for both Pax & Fox. Eventually I'll move the tv antenna up to where my ham antenna used to be, then they will be able to use the rotor. Thanks again for the info.

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post #278 of 4956 Old 06-01-2006, 09:58 AM
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Does anyone know why Discovery and HDNET are so much better than network programing? Also do you think the others will catch up in the future?
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post #279 of 4956 Old 06-02-2006, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kc0bsn View Post

We've always had horrible reception for both Pax & Fox.

The KPXR tower is pretty short compared to all the others, so that doesn't help either.

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post #280 of 4956 Old 06-02-2006, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by redhawk View Post

Does anyone know why Discovery and HDNET are so much better than network programing? Also do you think the others will catch up in the future?

The networks (actually, local channels) are required by FCC mandate to devote x number of hours each week to children's programming, public access, etc. Cable doesn't have the same restrictions/mandates.

You're comparing cable/paid programming with OTA/Network/Free programming... Apples and Oranges.

That's like asking why Sopranos or Oz are "so much better than" Prison Break. There's no good comparison.

Further, networks are catering to a wide, unspecific audience. Discovery and HDNet are catering to specific audiences and demographics. It's the difference between going to an all-you-can-eat "international buffet" (Network) and going to a specialty restaurant, like a Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, Cafe de Paris, etc (cable).

To compare the two and complain about Network programming is a rather specious comparison, IMHO...
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post #281 of 4956 Old 06-04-2006, 08:32 AM
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I was not referring to the program content, I was referring to the picture being so much better on on Discovery and HDNET?
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post #282 of 4956 Old 06-06-2006, 09:22 AM
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I'm looking for some guidance on a new home construction project and improving my HD reception. I live in Monticello and can pick up 2-x, 7-x, 9-x, 32-x, and 48-x with no problems. Fox (28-x) is marginal... almost seems to depend on the weather. I'm guessing that if I were to have a rotor I could move to a more south-west direction to hit the KFXA tower better.

Since I have an opportunity to improve on things, like adding a rotor, any other suggestions on what I can do? Is a 4228 going to get me anything better than the 4221? Anything else I should consider? Are rotors working well for others? Surviving the winters OK?
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post #283 of 4956 Old 06-06-2006, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mlboll View Post

Is a 4228 going to get me anything better than the 4221? Anything else I should consider? Are rotors working well for others? Surviving the winters OK?

The 4228 is bigger and better than the 4221. My #1 suggestion would be a pre-amp. The favorite seems to be the Channel Master products. I believe mine is the 7777, but they nay have newer models now.

I've had a Radio Shack rotor for 2 years and so dar no problems.
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post #284 of 4956 Old 06-06-2006, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post

I was not referring to the program content, I was referring to the picture being so much better on on Discovery and HDNET?

I suppose I would need examples to know what you mean. The PQ on my TV for dramas on Network programming (CSI:, Law & Order, etc.) and for Late-night talk shows (Leno, Letterman, Conan) is second to none. The PQ on PBS-HD shows that were recorded in HD (instead of being converted to widescreen and sent out in 1080i) is also second to none. Non-HD shows are, well, non-HD, and really can't be counted against anything. Fox Saturday Baseball still seems to be using SD cameras and just shipping out a 720p signal (at least, they looked that way in Wrigley Field).

I haven't seen any significant difference in PQ between native HD shows on Discovery/HDNET and native HD shows on NBC, ABC, CBS, and PBS.

Of course, I pull my networks off the air, and not converted through a STB or cable box, so there aren't multiple conversions and filters that it's sucked through...
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post #285 of 4956 Old 06-10-2006, 10:01 AM
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Is anyone - closer to the tower - getting anything from either KGAN or KCRG??

I have since late last night, and still nothing this morning.

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post #286 of 4956 Old 06-10-2006, 10:18 AM
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They are both coming in fine in CR.

Have you tried CFUJoes charts?

OTA Signal Levels
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post #287 of 4956 Old 06-10-2006, 11:11 AM
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I just didn't have my 'tenna pointed in the right direction.

Pointed "due north", I get a good signal, might get better if pointed it at like 352-256 degrees, but I get a good signal at 000, so will leave it as such for now (plus closer to best orientation for best reception of my "locals").

I could be wrong, but I think KCRG is less-compressed than WQAD, ie less sub-channels.

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post #288 of 4956 Old 06-12-2006, 01:37 PM
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I've been having some occasional problems with WHBF, which I'm getting on the backside of my CM 4221 (about 8 miles away). Until the past several weeks, I've not had any problems since they went full power in Bettendorf. I'm wondering if the seasonal change somehow makes a difference? Their CE claims no problems with the transmitter, and, when I get the signal, it's pretty strong. Plus, when I DO re-orient the antenna so it's facing the tower, the problems go away. Of, course, then I can't get KWQC, WQAD, FOX and PBS.

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post #289 of 4956 Old 06-15-2006, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bierboy View Post

I've been having some occasional problems with WHBF, which I'm getting on the backside of my CM 4221 (about 8 miles away).
...
Plus, when I DO re-orient the antenna so it's facing the tower, the problems go away. Of, course, then I can't get KWQC, WQAD, FOX and PBS.

Sure sounds like a case of multi-path. It can be a real problem with 8VSB. It's quite possible that folliage on the trees has changed the signal characteristics in your location. I've seen this happen on analog especially when the leaves on trees get wet.

Multipath reflections are going to be stronger the closer to the tower you are, so even when close in, a directional antenna is important to minimize reflections, which play havoc with digital.

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post #290 of 4956 Old 06-15-2006, 10:08 AM
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Sure sounds like a case of multi-path. It can be a real problem with 8VSB. It's quite possible that folliage on the trees has changed the signal characteristics in your location. I've seen this happen on analog especially when the leaves on trees get wet.

Multipath reflections are going to be stronger the closer to the tower you are, so even when close in, a directional antenna is important to minimize reflections, which play havoc with digital.

Thanks! That could be the case. I spent some time fine-tuning my CM4221 orientation, and I think I have found the "sweet spot" to get everything from Orion and still get WHBF's signal from Bettendorf with minimal breakups.

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post #291 of 4956 Old 06-15-2006, 09:16 PM
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wow. talk about coincidence. Just got a 4228 from Warren today (fwiw, if anyone needs one, they have a screaming special on right now.) But back ot, I quick set it up in the next room, and my signals fluctuated hugely. From nothing to 65% to 30% - almost with a periodicity. About a 10 second cycle. No matter which way I had the antenna oriented.

Then I reread the directions, and saw I had it backwards. Turned it around, and signal still fluctuates a LOT, but at least I don't lose signal. Funny thing is, with QAM and CFU, I get the same fluctuations - pretty sure it is a cabling problem. Am in the middle of putting in quadshield RG6 - hoping that will do the trick.

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post #292 of 4956 Old 06-16-2006, 06:24 AM
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Vee - So you've got the "bowties" facing the towers, now, eh? Those signal fluctuations seem to describe exactly what I've been experiencing with WHBF. I was watching CSI last night, and it seemed fine until the last 15 minutes or so, then would pixelate, freeze, drop for a few seconds, then come back. I may just have to bite the bullet and rotate the antenna to face Bettendorf when I watch WHBF. That's a nearly 180 degree move from the other towers, but, if that's all I have to do to eliminate the problem, it's a small price to pay. Now, when the TiVo HD Series 3 unit comes out, it will be a challenge. Then, when I have an HD recording scheduled, I'll have to make sure the antenna is oriented correctly. Of course, jumping from one scheduled recording to another (on different channels) would be a challenge. Might have to add a second antenna for WHBF and diplex it (?). And, of course, there's the challenge of them going back down to the VHF band later, too.

Did you pick up the CM4228 in person or have them ship it? Warren is only about five miles from where I live.

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post #293 of 4956 Old 06-16-2006, 07:15 AM
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Not only are they advertising a great price, there is currently a shipping special - I got it FedEx to my addy the NEXT day. Have to give them a hats off. Shipped price beat anyone else's price before shipping. Anyone living within driving distance is crazy not to go pick one up. (end of unsolicited ad )

4228 owners - what do you think of "folding" the thing in half, so I can get it up into my attic? and then unfolding it - straightening it back out to original configuration. Either that, or pulling off the chicken wire, and then reattaching it. Had planned to just attic mount it, then belatedly discovered that the door to attic is quite a bit smaller than the antenna. OOPs.

As a further antenna review - main rig is a 12' long Channel Master on a 10' mast, with a rotor. The 4228 pulls in nearly as good a signal right now, 25' lower, inside the house, using a computer chair as a rotor. NICE antenna. I have the feeling that if I were to put this puppy on the roof, I could pull off the long distance tricks you've bee posting.

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post #294 of 4956 Old 06-19-2006, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bierboy View Post

Might have to add a second antenna for WHBF and diplex it (?). And, of course, there's the challenge of them going back down to the VHF band later, too.

I had considered doing that at one time to get KWKB analog which is much farther away from me than my other locals. The question then arose, wouldn't both antennas see the same signals but at different levels and differing phases? What will that look like when diplexed together? It seemed like it could get real messy, real fast. Even more so with digital.

Now you could filter out the WHBF signal from the main antenna, and band pass it in on the second antenna and then combine them. I was always going to do that but never got around to ordering the stuff I needed to do it. Then Dish added CR locals so I forgot all about off air reception. I still haven't gotten an HDTV setup at home but I'm sure the same problem will come up again when I do.

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post #295 of 4956 Old 06-19-2006, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhf View Post

I had considered doing that at one time to get KWKB analog which is much farther away from me than my other locals. The question then arose, wouldn't both antennas see the same signals but at different levels and differing phases? What will that look like when diplexed together? It seemed like it could get real messy, real fast. Even more so with digital.

Now you could filter out the WHBF signal from the main antenna, and band pass it in on the second antenna and then combine them. I was always going to do that but never got around to ordering the stuff I needed to do it. Then Dish added CR locals so I forgot all about off air reception. I still haven't gotten an HDTV setup at home but I'm sure the same problem will come up again when I do.

I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Won't be a problem until I have a dual tuner HD DVR (hopefully the TiVO S3).

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post #296 of 4956 Old 06-19-2006, 08:43 AM
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fwiw, guys at KCRG-DT - whatever you changed when you added 9-2 is still funky, if not more so. My poor Sammy 165 had to reboot three times when I chose your station yesterday.

And you guys are most likely correct - my 2 LGs with QAM don't have that problem; likewise, my Sammy 360 is fairly good with it, OTA. There is still a noticeable hesitation in tuning 9-1 and 9-2, but no reboot.

Only mentioning it because it never used to be an issue.

And now to Mr Owens at KWWL - are you enabling any content flags on 7-1? My new LG4200 is HDCP compliant, and the last few days, your stations will tune in, and then disappear. Just curious - didn't think I was going to have to dig out my HDCP stripper just to watch Leno. No problems with same configuration, and any other local HDs. Just the three digital KWWLs.

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post #297 of 4956 Old 06-25-2006, 09:06 PM
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OK - need a spot of help here. My LG only has one input for either ota antenna or cable input. Is there a splitter/combiner thing I can get, that will allow me to have both cable and antenna Y'd into one cable, to feed into my LG?

I tried using a regular splitter, backwards - it worked for nstc cable, and it passed standard ota tv, but wouldn't pass HD tv. So any ideas/help would be appreciated. Thanks

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post #298 of 4956 Old 06-25-2006, 10:21 PM
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A diplexer will combine the signals onto one line, but I'm fairly certain that is not going to give you the outcome you're looking for. Usually diplexers are used in pairs - on one end to combine the signals, then again on the other end to split them out again.

**EDIT - I just re-read my post, which was of no help to your question. I am worthless.
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post #299 of 4956 Old 06-26-2006, 07:10 AM
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- - no, it gives me a start. Since the LG has only one 75-ohm coax input, which can and does accept all three signals (ota sd and hd, plus standard cable) - I was just hoping that there was a way to put all three signals into it, at the same time.

Not being an EE, I don't understand why, when I combined the cable feed and the antenna feed, I could get standard ota and cable, but not the hd channels (the tuner received VHF and UHF, got 32,40, etc, but it flat wouldn't display 2-1, 7-1, etc.) Which I found very odd, since when I removed the splitter, the LG picked up all OTA just fine.

Just asking cuz I know there are a lot of guys out there who know a lot more about this than me. (Unless you've all moved to the Davenport thread - this one is getting pretty quiet.)

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post #300 of 4956 Old 06-26-2006, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingvee View Post

(Unless you've all moved to the Davenport thread - this one is getting pretty quiet.)

Not as quiet as the QC thread

Mediacom Digital Cable and OTA HD
Panny TC-P55GT50 -- Denon AVR-1713 -- TiVo Premiere XL4 -- Sony BDP-S5100 -- SlingBox 350 -- Polk 5.1 Speakers -- Logitech Harmony One
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Reply Local HDTV Info and Reception

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