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post #61 of 2278 Old 02-02-2007, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

Anyone have to replace their STB yet?

I'm in Maryland but there's a good chance my experience would mirror the situation in Philly. I ordered an additional STB to connect to a computer for DVR, tv-streaming, etc. The tech had to come and install the STB. I was told that Verizon is "not allowed' to ship a box to a residence, and that is must be sent to a Verizon office and then installed by a tech, even if the installation requires nothing special. My guess is that Verizon has some statutory amount of time before they're required to maintain local offices for customer relations. But in the meantime, they will probably continue in their current fashion for some time.
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post #62 of 2278 Old 02-02-2007, 07:18 PM
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JinHef - There was a new user on the now Philly ComCast thread from Lower Makefield twp who gave the green light. I scrambled to order, then posted and cross-linked references over to this thread. BTW: Thanks for posting your efforts regarding your phone calls to the twp. I was closely monitoring Verizon's web site as a result and I still missed the 1st day.

I value AVS forum highly. But as an engineer, I need to dig into the tech side of the fiber optic network. Also, the routers use a standard called "MoCA", Multimedia Over Coax. Something new for me. There's LOTS of tech info in the Verizon FiOS TV forum: http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/vzfiostv The focus is on the tech side, not home theater / high def quality, so it's a different arena than AVS forum. (However, a little competition is always good.)

Broadbandreports.com already has a Lower Bucks County thread. I joined over there (GeekGirl1 - GeekGirl was not available ). http://www.broadbandreports.com/foru...666796~days=30
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post #63 of 2278 Old 02-03-2007, 08:23 AM
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Because I ordered the service after the Jan 28 cutoff, I was not given the $100 AmEx gift card, but got another deal for the same amount. The rep called it a "switcher" deal, and you send in your last cable bill, and they'll send you a check for $100. If anyone wants the info, I can post the address they gave me for the refund.
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post #64 of 2278 Old 02-03-2007, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

jim, unless it supports a cable card and unless you just want the 14 or analog channels offered (all OTA), you will need a box for that set.

Actually, it would be, if one has a CableCard TV/STB and/or one just wants Locals.
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post #65 of 2278 Old 02-06-2007, 04:21 PM
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I had FiOS installed today. It took about 4 hours. I had the internet and three HD STB's installed one being the DVR. I must say that the installation was very professional. Clean and to the point. The equipment seems to work very well. I am still playing around with the internet which seems faster than Comcast even though it is a slightly slower speed (5 v. 6 mbs) ON the video side, I have put all the boxes through their paces. The initial finding is a very noticable improvement in the PQ on the SD channels. The noice I had on the Comcast digital channels is gone. The SD PQ gives a nice clear noise free picture. It almost makes SD watchable. As for the HD, the HD channels seem to be the same as Comcast. It may be my eyes but some of the HD channels may look a tad and I mean a tad sharper on FiOS than on Comcast. I am not sure though. I am sure though that HDNet on FiOS blows away HDNet on Directv. It is that much better. I also like the interface on the DVR. I am able to set the recordings using the guide which seems more user friendly than Comcast. I hit the program on the guide with the record button and the red dot appears on the guide just like on Comcast. The 30 second skip on my Comcast remote works great also. I have not tried the new remotes except on the family room TV which now has HD for the first time in a few years. It is great to have that again and still be saving 30 bucks! The swap button is not that big a deal to me. Any questions let me know.
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post #66 of 2278 Old 02-06-2007, 05:39 PM
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On the issue of the firewire port, it works flawlessly. I am able to record everything to DVHS. However, I do not have any of the movie channels so can't comment on those. All else including all the HD channels like Discovery, etc. can be recorded to DVHS.
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post #67 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 05:49 AM
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Well, the firewire is a plus too. I've always had "glitches" with the Comcast connection. How about the "networked" DVR function? How has the experience played out? Work OK? I'd love to be able to retire for the evening & watch via the DVR in the bedroom.

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post #68 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 05:52 AM
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JWhip-
Glad to hear you're up and running!

I noticed that there are 2 HD On Demand programs available right now under the Free, Home and Leisure, Ambient.tv HD category.

I have a ticket opened with Verizon right now because they apparently do not have the caps set right at the Central Offices yet to account for the streaming of HD On Demand and it's "large" requirement.

Another poster at DSL Reports has measured they are sending the content at around 18-19 meg. When you watch VOD, they apparently bump your downstream speed on the data side to 30 meg - since the VOD travels over the internet side of things. Since the HD is now taking up 18-19 of that, when I have the HD on demand playing, my speeds are slowing down to around 12000 down (I'm on the 15/2 plan).

So I requested they have the Network Ops folks take a look to see how they can correct this - as if you have someone watching an HD VOD in your house and another person is on the internet, I'm currently taking a hit on my download speeds.
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post #69 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 06:46 AM
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Since the DVR does not currently steam HD, I did not get it. My neighbor has it and it works great. His wife is from Europe and she loves the foreign channels and she DVR's them all the time hence they love the media server. I must say that I am beginning to think that the HD looks better on FiOS. I watched letterman this morning and it looked clearer than I have ever seen it. Not by a lot but noticable. The Unit looked fabulous last night also but I have never seen the show before to compare it. I also thought that the ESPN feeds last night looked better than I have ever seen them also. Now they just need more HD offerings.
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post #70 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 07:26 AM
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I did not know that it does not stream HD. I assume there are plans to do so? Have there been discussions when this might be done?

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post #71 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 07:41 AM
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around the third quater of 2007 is what I have been told
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post #72 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Jones View Post

I did not know that it does not stream HD. I assume there are plans to do so? Have there been discussions when this might be done?

Carl,
I too would have gotten the Media Manager version of the DVR if it could stream to other HD STB's.

Word is that the new software / guide when it rolls out will have this ability.
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post #73 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 12:43 PM
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Well, I still envy you folks. Hopefully the rest of Wilmington is not far behind.

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post #74 of 2278 Old 02-07-2007, 03:33 PM
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I gve up INHD and VSGLF and CN8 but the better PQ and lower cost is worth it.
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post #75 of 2278 Old 02-08-2007, 05:13 AM
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Maybe it was my Comcast boxes but the PQ on FiOS HD is sharper and more vibrant. The Sixers game last night looked way better than I have ever seen it. Razor sharp. This is working out well, at least so far.
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post #76 of 2278 Old 02-08-2007, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

Maybe it was my Comcast boxes but the PQ on FiOS HD is sharper and more vibrant. The Sixers game last night looked way better than I have ever seen it. Razor sharp. This is working out well, at least so far.

JWhip-
I hear ya. CSN-HD looks really nice on FIOS. And hell, the Sixers even won!
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post #77 of 2278 Old 02-09-2007, 09:01 AM
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Great reviews of the TV pq and installation. Thanks for such detail!

Quick question: My ONT has a coax port. Is this where the video source will be coming from? If so, what is the coax port on the back of my ActionTec router for? I'm curious, since I use Sunrocket VOIP, and my VOIP equiment is useless behind the ActionTec router for some reason, so I use my own router. My ActionTec is currently functioning as a paper weight.
I'm wondering if I will need the ActionTec for Fios TV, or if the coax from the ONT will be enough. Thanks.
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post #78 of 2278 Old 02-09-2007, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohendo View Post

Great reviews of the TV pq and installation. Thanks for such detail!

Quick question: My ONT has a coax port. Is this where the video source will be coming from? If so, what is the coax port on the back of my ActionTec router for? I'm curious, since I use Sunrocket VOIP, and my VOIP equiment is useless behind the ActionTec router for some reason, so I use my own router. My ActionTec is currently functioning as a paper weight.
I'm wondering if I will need the ActionTec for Fios TV, or if the coax from the ONT will be enough. Thanks.

Ohendo,
Yes, they connect a coax to your ONT - then they bring that into your basement (or where ever) and hook it up to an x-way splitter (x = # of TV's +1)

1 end of the splitter then connects to the coax on the back of the Actiontec. This is how your STB's get their guide data and how VOD works (it comes over the data side of FIOS). The other runs from the splitter go to your TV's.
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post #79 of 2278 Old 02-09-2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepmatt View Post

Ohendo,
Yes, they connect a coax to your ONT - then they bring that into your basement (or where ever) and hook it up to an x-way splitter (x = # of TV's +1)

1 end of the splitter then connects to the coax on the back of the Actiontec. This is how your STB's get their guide data and how VOD works (it comes over the data side of FIOS). The other runs from the splitter go to your TV's.

Jeepmatt to the rescue again. Thanks for answering. So I don't need the ActionTec in place, unless I want VOD and a guide. In other words, I need the ActionTec! I guess I'll have to bug Sunrocket for a different VOIP box that will work behind the Actiontec. I've heard there are a few available.

update: After more thought, I am a bit confused. The source is from the ONT, and this line goes to an X-way splitter, with the outputs of the splitter going to the TV's and one to the ActionTec. The flow of data in this layout is going INTO the ActionTec and STB's. I have a hard time grasping how the STB's are communicating with the ActionTec if they are both on the 'out' side of an X-way splitter.
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post #80 of 2278 Old 02-09-2007, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohendo View Post

update: After more thought, I am a bit confused. The source is from the ONT, and this line goes to an X-way splitter, with the outputs of the splitter going to the TV's and one to the ActionTec. The flow of data in this layout is going INTO the ActionTec and STB's. I have a hard time grasping how the STB's are communicating with the ActionTec if they are both on the 'out' side of an X-way splitter.

Splitters/coax are bidirectional. Otherwise the cable companies would never know when you ordered video on demand.

-Jerry
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post #81 of 2278 Old 02-09-2007, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
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Splitters/coax are bidirectional. Otherwise the cable companies would never know when you ordered video on demand.

-Jerry

How about that. Duh. Thanks for clearing that up! I should have realized....
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post #82 of 2278 Old 02-09-2007, 07:32 PM
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(Guys- this may help answer your configuration questions.) FiOS installed today. Wow. SD has never looked better. The analog channels on my 27" CRT are the best I've ever seen. No noise anywhere. HD is somewhat improved as well. The details:

Time to install: 5 1/2 hours, including time for the techs to get the ONT software loaded (troubleshooting).

Service experience: The techs were extremely courteous and helpful. They showed me everything and told me anything I wanted to know. This included helping them with the signal strength measurements on the Sunrise Telecom CM750 analyzer.

What they did:
The ONT got installed onto my distribution panel in the basement. Reasoning was that they claimed to have after-hours support and there's much less chance of problems due to weather indoors. I figured that the hardware never fails, it's always the software and they fix that stuff remotely. Also, the only spot that the ONT could be installed is too visible from the street.

Next, they basically tore down and rebuilt my distribution panel. Final configuration:

=== fiber ===> 612 ONT ===> 2-way splitter ==> 8-way splitter =====> STB + other TVs.
.........................|........................|=======> ActionTec router ===> PCs
.........................|=====================> Telco block =======> phone patch panel ---> phones

With one look at my Sammy 67" main setup, they brought me the Moto HD STB and asked me if I could install it myself. Nothing wrong, they were just intimidated and that's what I preferred anyway .

RF Signal strength target ranges:
ONT out:....................... +18 to +19 dBmV
Analog channel level at STB: 0 to +10 dBmV
Digital channel level at STB: -5 to +6 dBmV

Startup problems:
The phone had no dial tone and the STB was not authorized for anything. Internet was OK. After about a 20 minute wait for a tech-to-tech Verizon support call, the ONT software was loaded (it's always a software problem...) and everything came online up and running.

I should also mention that the telco audio (speech) quality is much improved. Less noise and better fidelity.
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post #83 of 2278 Old 02-09-2007, 08:42 PM
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Could people who have already had a FIOS TV install do me a favor? Go into the diagnostic screen on your STB and go to option 6 and tell me what CC and RC Flag are set to for CBS HD and ABC HD. To get into the diag screen, turn off the STB and quickly press the Select button on the box (at least that's how you get there on the 6200 QIP).

Why? Because on my box, all of the other OTA channels have these set to 0, but ABC and CBS (and PSG-HD or PHL-HD) have them set to 2. All of the other OTA channels I can record on my computer via firewire, but not those two. They're not encrypted (via QAM I have no problem with those channels), it's just through the STB. It's some kind of DRM enforced by the STB.

I'm going to be calling Verizon tomorrow but I just wanted some more data from other people first to see if it's just my box or a general issue.

Thanks,
Jerry
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post #84 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 06:46 AM
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I think you're on to something here. Check the RC flag also. BTW: There's an AVS forum dedicated thread for recording firewire from Motorola STBs, but I lost the link.

My Samsung HL-R6768W is also connected to my STB (QIP6416-2) via Firewire. I assume you are referring to the "5C" bit (D11 - Interface Status) for the encryption.

When I switched to 1394, it reported "Copy-free" for all the OTA channels. TNT-HD, NFL Network, and ComCast Sportsnet reported "Copy-one generation". When I brought up the diag menu on the HDMI output, 5C was 0 for those channels. This leads me to believe that 5C is '1' on 1394, but '0' on HDMI. I couldn't confirm it since I can't see the diag screen on the 1394 output (!).

HD Channels:
ABC: CCI: 0x02 CIT: 0x00 RC: 0x01 (5C = 0 HDMI, copy-free via 1394)
CBS: CCI: 0x02 CIT: 0x00 RC: 0x01 (5C = 0 HDMI, copy-free via 1394)
NBC: CCI: 0x00 CIT: 0x00 RC: 0x00 (5C = 0 HDMI, copy-free via 1394)
PBS: CCI: 0x00 CIT: 0x00 RC: 0x00 (5C = 0 HDMI, copy-free via 1394)
TNT: CCI: 0x02 CIT: 0x00 RC: 0x00 (5C = 0 HDMI, copy-one generation via 1394)
NFL: CCI: 0x02 CIT: 0x00 RC: 0x00 (5C = 0 HDMI, copy-one generation via 1394)
All RS flags are "forever".

BTW: The best thing about Verizon is that the STB powers up to the last channel watched, not CN8.
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post #85 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 07:17 AM
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I can record all the channels to DVHS via firewire. One of the benefits of not having CN8 on the system! THe HD PQ is outstanding!
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post #86 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 07:52 AM
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I found the firewire thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...rding+firewire. Check there first to see if you really need to call Verizon. If it works for JWhip, I would research the thread.

I had a similar problem, but with DVHS not recognizing anything with 5C encryption, where my Sammy would see it as "copy-one generation". This was for ComCast and a Moto 6500DCT STB (HD, no DVR). The last thoughts were that it was a driver problem (recognize STB as 1394 source on PC). A commercial driver will work much better, but I did not want to expend time / money on it. You can find a public domain driver at this thread.

BTW: I canceled Comcast in person when I returned the box. I told them I was moving to Verizon fiber. The person at the counter said, "So, you're going with Dish?". No, Verizon FIBER OPTIC. "You mean Dish?". No, it's FIBER not DISH. OK, whatever. This morning, I got a call to confirm the cancellation and uninstall the cable. "So, you're moving to Dish?". No, Verizon. The person on the phone at least understood who Verizon was. She confirmed that I returned the STB + remote.
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post #87 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 11:31 AM
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GeekGirl - in your chart, where did your data for whether the channels were 1394 copy free vs. copy one generation come from?

Here's some more info about screen 6.

For non-OTA digital channels, it says Type: Digital ENC 0x12, CCI is 2, RS is 0
For OTA channels I can receive over firewire, it says Type UNK 0x43, CCI is 0, RS is 0
For OTA channels I cannot receive over firewire, it says Type UNK 0x43, CCI is 2, RS is 1 (not 2 as I originally said)

No idea what the numbers mean, but ENC says encrypted to me, even though screen 11 says 5C 0 for all of the above channels.

JWhip - DVHS is probably going to be able to get things over firewire that the non-DRMed firewire card on my computer is not going to be able to do. I think the DVHS is able to do handshaking/decryption that the STB requires in order to be able to know it'll only be creating a copy-once copy.
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post #88 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 12:00 PM
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GG - thank for the link to that thread. Even though I'm running Linux and not Windows on my dedicated DVR computer, there's still a bunch of good info there.

CCI(Copy Control Information) codes:

Copy Never (11 or 0x03)
Copy One Generation (10 or 0x02)
No More Copies (01 or 0x01)
Copy Freely (00 or 0x00)

Also, it sounds like this CCI stuff is something that was implemented to support the Broadcast Flag (before it was put on hold). It's not clear to me whether this is something Verizon should be fixing or the individual station should be fixing.

-Jerry
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post #89 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 12:31 PM
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JerryR - When in doubt, use an independent observer. My Sammy HL-R6768W (67" DLP) has 1394 network support called "D-Link". The copy status came from him, I'm just the messenger.

From skimming postings on other topics, I believe that the originator configures the flags. This makes sense to me. IOW: Verizon is just a pass-through. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong...

Keep in mind that data stream processing is a mix of both hardware timing and software. They are not independent. You may find out that the problem is a combination of these two. More probable is that there is a combination of flags that you haven't found yet which is a minor "bug" in the code.
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post #90 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

From skimming postings on other topics, I believe that the originator configures the flags. This makes sense to me. IOW: Verizon is just a pass-through. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong...

Ok, assume the originator configures the flags, sounds reasonable. The FCC requires content providers (cable companies, and I assume FIOS TV companies) to provide OTA in the clear over firewire. So is it Verizon's responsibility to program the STBs to not respect the CCI flag for OTA channels? Or the TV station's responsibility not to put them in there in the first place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

Keep in mind that data stream processing is a mix of both hardware timing and software. They are not independent. You may find out that the problem is a combination of these two. More probable is that there is a combination of flags that you haven't found yet which is a minor "bug" in the code.

I don't follow you here - are you saying a bug in the set top box code or the firewire drive code on my computer?

With Comcast, I had no problem with any of the OTA channels over firewire. It was the same STB (6200), minus the QIP, so you'd think that it would treat the flags the same. Hmm, wait a second - I can check whether those stations have the flags through Comcast...
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