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post #91 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JerryR View Post

I don't follow you here - are you saying a bug in the set top box code or the firewire drive code on my computer?

In the firewire drive code on your PC. Just conjecture, of course. I could state this a little better by saying it's not an easy thing to find.
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post #92 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

In the firewire drive code on your PC. Just conjecture, of course. I could state this a little better by saying it's not an easy thing to find.

On the computer side, it's just pumping the raw firewire stream straight into a file, so my inclination is to think the stream is not being transmitted on the STB side. On the computer side, it's not processing any of the flags. If the stream isn't completely in the clear, it's not going to be able to play it.

-Jerry
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post #93 of 2278 Old 02-10-2007, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JerryR View Post

With Comcast, I had no problem with any of the OTA channels over firewire. It was the same STB (6200), minus the QIP, so you'd think that it would treat the flags the same. Hmm, wait a second - I can check whether those stations have the flags through Comcast...

Nope, the Comcast STB doesn't even list those flags at all. Oh well.
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post #94 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 09:50 AM
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JerryR - I think those flags are hiding from you in a different diag menu (ComCast box). I searched the Firewire thread for "CCI" and found: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9681512

"when you check for 5C, look near the bottom and see if CCI=0x02 or 0x00".
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post #95 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 10:12 AM
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I just watched my first ComCast Sportsnet HD hockey game on FiOS. The overall quality seemed a tad better than ComCast, but there were some problems.

The first thing I picked up was that the blacks were truly black. Very nice. However, it was the puck that caught my eye. I could not help but notice how clear the puck was. The motion of the puck spinning on the ice never stood out before and now I couldn't stop watching it. You could see the edges of it as rolled / skimmed along the ice surface. Impressive.

However, all of this was tempered with very perceptible motion blur. Every few seconds, the motion of the players was blurred. Also, the picture would jerk from time to time. These problems were not present when watching on ComCast.

Moving onto HDNet hockey, I'd say the picture was a level above ComCast Sportsnet, but in a different sort of way. Level of detail was excellent and no motion blurring was noticed. However, the overall contrast / brightness seemed to be compressed. The 5.1 surround sound had the announcers in the center channel with ambient fill all around (did not evaluate 5.1 for Sportsnet).

I would be interested if anyone knows the differences in processing between the two channels, i.e. balance dropping frames vs. picture quality.
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post #96 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 10:26 AM
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Geekgirl, I must say that on my displays, a 34" CRT and 42 and 50" plasmas there was no motion blur at all on CSN-HD last night. The picture jerk you mentioned occurred for me maybe twice the whole game. That seems to be an issue that Verizon needs to address as that it not on the signal coming out of CSN. While I wish it never happened, I will take the overall noticably better picture in exchange for a brief jerk. There are clearly some bugs that need to be worked out in the system but I am sure they are the kind that only people like us would even notice or complain about. On CSN, it looks like a very thin film has been wiped off the screen compared to the same feed on Comcast. I have let the chief of the engineering crew in on that. The experience at home looks more like what I have see at the control room at the Wachovia Center. Can't wait to see what the Phillies games look like with their overall brighter and more colorful palatte. As compared to HDNet, I liked the CSN PQ better as I found it to be clearer. As for audio, they seem to be mixed alittle differently but when cranked up, they both sound great.
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post #97 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 11:25 AM
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JWhip - I like the analogy, a removal of thin film. I need to think about the motion blur. I wonder if there's anything from my display? It's a Sammy HL-R6768W 1080p DLP (1080i on HDMI), about a year old. Could it be motion artifacts on the DLP processor?

If you are comparing things to the Wachovia center control room, then let me give you a better description for analog (I used to design CATV distribution equipment). I viewed the analog channels on my Sony 27" XBR CRT. The picture was head-end quality, which I have never seen except way back when I worked at that company.

FYI - Head-end design criteria was 45 dB C/N, viewing was on Tektronix and SONY professional studio monitors. I used to be of the opinion that a good quality analog signal will beat out a processed digital signal any day. We may have reached the break-even point at the consumer level. So much for history...
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post #98 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 12:00 PM
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The Flyers game is listed on Versus for tomorrow night vs. Red Wings. Is this available in HD? On ComCast, this would be on INHD, but no such animal here. Am I stuck with SD?
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post #99 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 12:05 PM
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The direct fiber feed from Citizen's Bank park to the Wachovia Center Control room is a sight to behold. It is a truly beautiful picture. While we are not getting that through Verizon, is is alot closer than what we were getting. This is a signficant upgrade. I can't wait to see the Phillies home games as they are much more colorful with the green grass, red unis, etc. The Flyers' games have more of a black and white fell with the ice, the black uniforms and the road whites. The Flyers games look better when the Flyers use the orange unis. I am wondering is Comcast isn't reducing the bit rate of their signal to compensate for the fact that the SA boxes in NJ couldn't handle the max bit rate that the Motorola boxes are using. This is nota problem with FiOS as they use nothing but Verizon boxes. I love the Verizon 6416 QIP which works better than my Comcast 6412.
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post #100 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 12:06 PM
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You are stuck with SD.
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post #101 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 02:01 PM
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What's the difference in distribution paths between OTA and Verizon? I'm comparing NHL on NBC and I'm seeing a definite improvement of FiOS over OTA. More dynamic range, sharper detail. To be fair, my Sammy is not ISF calibrated, but I think that there are still differences here.

I'll withhold judgement on the Comcast Sportsnet motion blur until I can watch another home game in HD (not tomorrow).

My QIP6416 takes a lot longer to authenticate the HDMI connection than the Comcast box did. That's about the only criticism I have. Menus are much more user oriented.
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post #102 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 04:07 PM
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I do not know. It is possible to taqke a fiber feed of a full bandwidth HD signal from WCAU before it goes out with the subchannels. If so, that would make a noticable improvement in HD PQ. It would cost FiOS more money to do it this way and I am not sure WCAU would agree to it. It is possible that the differences you see are due to the quality of the STB vs. the OTA stb also.
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post #103 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

I do not know. It is possible to taqke a fiber feed of a full bandwidth HD signal from WCAU before it goes out with the subchannels. If so, that would make a noticable improvement in HD PQ. It would cost FiOS more money to do it this way and I am not sure WCAU would agree to it. It is possible that the differences you see are due to the quality of the STB vs. the OTA stb also.

I got an answer at broadbandreports.com Verizon FiOS TV forum: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17814657. They do indeed have dedicated fiber feeds, which would explain the improvement in quality. BTW: There's a Lower Bucks County thread: http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17666796
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post #104 of 2278 Old 02-11-2007, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

JerryR - I think those flags are hiding from you in a different diag menu (ComCast box). I searched the Firewire thread for "CCI" and found: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9681512

"when you check for 5C, look near the bottom and see if CCI=0x02 or 0x00".

I couldn't find CCI info listed on any of the screens on the Comcast box. The more I think about it, however, the more I'm leaning towards just getting an HDHomeRun box for $160. QAM goes in, ethernet comes out. And it has two tuners and is supported in MythTV. That way I'll have a three QAM tuner + two NTSC tuner system (not that I'll need the NTSC tuner anymore - I don't watch _that_ much tv). I'll still need the STB for getting the non-OTA channels into the computer via the s-video output of the STB (and for getting the non-OTA HD channels onto the TV).

Plus, this way I don't have to argue with Verizon about FCC regs.

-Jerry
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post #105 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 03:41 AM
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Has anyone in the Philly area experienced a lot of pixellation on their digital channels last night?

There was an area issue on Thursday where people all over SE PA and DE were seeing this. I called into the FSC that night, and 5+ people on DSLReports all confirmed they were seeing the same thing. Bravo, Food Network, etc. all major blocking and pixellation. One person said they finally admitted to a video issue affecting Philly.

Fast forward to last night - the same problems came back. One other poster in West Chester confirmed the same problem again, but when I called the FSC they would not listen to me, and wanted to send out a tech. I told them no. They hit my boxes, tried to reset the ONT, while I was like, are you listening to me that this is an area problem??? It only happens on the channels from 50 and up. Almost like there is an issue at the headend when they are uplinking the channels that come via satellite.

I was also glad to read you guys are seeing the "jerky" picture sometimes - i also see this from time to time. Definite items VZ needs to work out.

I really am disappointed in the fact that they don't monitor things at their Video hubs very well. The person in West Chester is actually letting them send a tech out today - for what, I have no idea, but I guess i'll see what they say to him. He's as frustrated as I am.
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post #106 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 04:32 AM
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There was some tiling last night on some channels but very few. HDNet MOvies, HDNet and Nick. I had no problems with CSN-HD, ESPN or KYW-DT, which were the channels I was watching.
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post #107 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 04:37 AM
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Comcast has dedicated fiber feeds as well. The questions is where the fiber feeds come from. Do they take the feed from the source after download and before the subchannel is added or after? THat is not addressed in the dslreports posting.
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post #108 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWhip View Post

There was some tiling last night on some channels but very few. HDNet MOvies, HDNet and Nick. I had no problems with CSN-HD, ESPN or KYW-DT, which were the channels I was watching.

JWhip,
Then yes, you were seeing it too. It's almost impossible to convince them there's an issue at the headend.

Yep, CSN and KYW wouldn't show the tiling...so that's probably why you didn't see it.

If you do see this issue happen, please call into the FSC so they can document.
Thanks.
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post #109 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 07:35 AM
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PM me with the number
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post #110 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 07:47 AM
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One person said they finally admitted to a video issue affecting Philly.

Great! Now Verizon offers Fios in the city!!! Awesome. I will be calling to inquire about it now!
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post #111 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 08:03 AM
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Great! Now Verizon offers Fios in the city!!! Awesome. I will be calling to inquire about it now!

News-
Ummm..sorry.

What I meant is that there is an issue at the video headend which is in Philadelphia - and that headend services Delaware and the suburbs.
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post #112 of 2278 Old 02-12-2007, 08:10 AM
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Thanks for letting the air out of the balloon.
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post #113 of 2278 Old 02-13-2007, 11:21 AM
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I took the day off yesterday in anticipation of Verizon coming in to hook everything up. Well, 8:30 rolled around and no one has shown up. So I call and after 45 minutes of talking and being on hold, they tell me someone had re-scheduled for next week. And for whatever reason, they didn't feel compelled to tell me prior to my initial install date. I told them I wanted someone out there that day but no dice. All crews were too backed up. In the end, they offered me a month free of cable and television for my troubles. So now I have to take off next week for the same thing. Hopefully they show. Glad I didn't jump the gun and cancell Comcast yet.
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post #114 of 2278 Old 02-13-2007, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe_R View Post

I told them I wanted someone out there that day but no dice. All crews were too backed up. In the end, they offered me a month free of cable and television for my troubles. So now I have to take off next week for the same thing. Hopefully they show. Glad I didn't jump the gun and cancel Comcast yet.

Ouch. Well, after spending 5 1/2 hours to do my house, I can understand the backup. The techs were only doing 1 setup / day, at least the ones in my area. I didn't cancel ComCast until I had the Verizon box fully up and running in real-time. Hint: When they finally install everything, copy down your customer order number, work order number, and any other numbers they have on you. If there are problems with the first bill, you will need them to get it straightened out. I didn't get this info, and I hope my first bill is OK.
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post #115 of 2278 Old 02-14-2007, 05:26 AM
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5-1/2 hours? Was this the total installation with a new FiOS service or did you have the internet service before that time? I've had the internet service for the past two years or so, waiting patiently for the TV service to arrive. I didn't anticipate a long installation time, but the original one did take awhile, and the crew was here for what seemed to be about 4 hours doing that, with the trenching being done several days before the techs got here to install the equipment. I'm hoping they keep my installation date, and don't postpone it due to backups in the schedule.
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post #116 of 2278 Old 02-14-2007, 06:47 PM
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A totally new install. I was very anxious about them showing up at all, since nobody came to do any digging prior. Turns out that they ran everything overhead, since my property was a good challenge for underground. A key point is that you should let them know up front that you know are technically into this stuff and would like to help as much as possible.

Time to run the fiber and get all the hardware "boxes" in place was about 2 hours. Understand that this involved rebuilding my homebrew RF / phone / ethernet distribution panel. After that, they took 2 1/2+ hours to wire the ONT, battery backup, ActionTec router (nice), coax, phone, etc. Your install should go a lot quicker, since all you need is the RF.

Ask them to let you install the STB. When they saw my main system, they handed me the STB and asked if I could do it (I think it scared them ). They will give you whatever cables you need except TOS-link.

Add another 1/2 hour for the techs on hold with their own tech support line. Result was to download software to the configure the ONT (it was not done).

Hint: Take a look at your existing RF system and plan accordingly to save time. The ONT output is +18 dBmV (see my previous post about signal levels). My Channelvision distribution amp was replaced with an 8-way passive splitter.
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post #117 of 2278 Old 02-15-2007, 05:35 AM
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My distribution area is probably similar to yours, with everything entering the home at the same location. But, with the FiOS equipment already in place, I guess I'll figure about 3 hours for their installation assuming a glitch or two before it fires up. They had given me a D-Link router for the internet installation, so I may ask for an update of that if you think the ActionTec is a better choice.

My main area STB is just below the display, and very accessible, so I'm hoping that will just be a simple swap. Question: what cabling is required from the DVR at the main box...is component an okay set-up? I use the HDMI connection for my upconverting Oppo DVD player.
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post #118 of 2278 Old 02-15-2007, 06:18 AM
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Component is fine as that is what I used anyway. The STB has coax and toslink outputs to a processor or receiver for audio as well. Anyone watch any of the Sixers-Wizards game last night. It was the best looking picture I have even seen on CSN. Razor sharp, great detail and perfect color. Outstanding.
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post #119 of 2278 Old 02-15-2007, 09:00 AM
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Speaking of the ActionTec router, I understand that the coax output of the router is used to inject guide data for the STB and handle VOD. Out of curiosity, does anyone know how this happens if you have FIOS TV but no internet?

-Jerry
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post #120 of 2278 Old 02-15-2007, 11:23 AM
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Jerry-
That's actually an interesting question! I never thought about it.
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