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post #631 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattn6 View Post

Unless I got it wrong, weren't Jeffco (along side of LCG) a defendant in the case brought by Golden City and sCare? It was remanded back to them to clean up some "technicalities" in the approval process. They have (officially based on vote) always approved the re-zoning.

Correct me if I am wrong.

# Matt



I believe you are correct. What is funny is that for the past few years since it was tied up in court (S)CARE and I believe Jeffco with its new commissioners, have been acting like they were going to get a 'do over' since they thought they had found another weakness in the plan, and just in case that failed, Golden would claim the land anyway. Remember the new commissioners campaigned on promising they would never vote for a tower, and I think they felt they would be able to overturn the previous vote by simply finding fault in the plan somewhere. I find it pretty amusing to read the submittal, it makes it all sound like they never had a problem with any of this, which makes you wonder what we have been doing for the past 2 years.

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post #632 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 05:22 PM
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Here's how Judge Jackson ruled on the case filed by sCare, Golden and the multitudes against the County and LCG.

http://www.c-a-r-e.org/pdfs/Order%20...d%20Remand.pdf

I don't think he bought into the Sword of Damocles multiple tower failure theatrics.


--- CHAS

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.
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post #633 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

I don't think so, as now the 'Battle' is over (we all hope) and we can look forward to discussing how everybody on the front range doesn't have reception issues and is enjoying DTV and HDTV!

(my 1st post: I'm expecting to get flamed for this)

You don't seem to understand WALTZONICE's post..

98% of this thread is made up of posts about the LCG/sCARE issue.The other 2% is questions about CURRENT reception issues.

Even though "the "Battle" is over" the sCARE posts persist. It appears that they'll persist for the next YEAR+ until the new tower is operational.

For those of us looking for CURRENT reception issue problems, this thread is nearly useless.. as we have to weed through post after post after post after post about the sCARE issue.

Seperating this thread into 2 would let all those who want talk about the sCARE issue, do your thing... and those of us who want to know about the CURRENT reception issues, ask questions.

This thread looks like it will be filled with "the tower is 13" higher than it was last week" for the next year plus. While the people with questions like "How can I get good reception with what's available" are buried in the "tower building" crap get lost in page after page of "I think Deb is so..." crap.

I just got my HDTV at the end of January and it took me 2 minutes to figure out that this thread is useless for those of us who want to ask CURRENT questions about reception. My name reflects my understanding of this.

So 2 threads WOULD be good since most of you are having fun talking about the new tower lawsuits.

It's not FUN for the rest of us who want to find out what we can do CURRENTLY to get better reception. Besides wait.

Let the flaming begin..

-Eric in Westminster.. currently getting WB2 & FOX in HD... damnit.

BTW, this thread would also suck if it was filled with people commenting on how "everybody on the front range doesn't have reception issues and is enjoying DTV and HDTV!" (just my opinion)
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post #634 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:02 PM
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Pretty good rant for a first post. I bet if you just asked for some help, there are plenty of helpful folks here that would get you headed in the right direction.
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post #635 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:11 PM
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Eric,
Welcome, and I agree, Bravo, nice rant! You'll fit right in here

Seriously, the AVS folks have already condensed down many of the threads because it was getting a bit out of control. They was starting to be multiple threads for each market. (Multiply 5 threads for every TV market, and it would be hard to manage) So, they created a consistent single thread for all OTA TV markets.

Ask away, you won't find a more knowledgeable bunch of guys on any thread, we've seen, tried and rejected just about every type of OTA gear out there! And we have enough members in all locations that someone no doubt will be in an area to post help about reception questions.

If anything, you are coming in at the tail-end of the BS, it should get a bit quiet while the tower build progresses.
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post #636 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwanthd View Post

Pretty good rant for a first post. I bet if you just asked for some help, there are plenty of helpful folks here that would get you headed in the right direction.

I'd ask if I thought it would help my reception. I'm currently in an APT without a direct view of downtown.. so I'm stuck with an indoor antenna... and the realization that I'm stuck with that until we get a new tower working.
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post #637 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:13 PM
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waiting4HDinCO, first of all welcome to the group and the thread. As for splitting up the thread, this format (covering both the tower and reception) has worked for us for over 7 years so I wouldn't expect things to change now. Especially since the legal issues of the tower are now pretty much resolved. I think a split thread would lead to more confusion than anything else at this point. If you think there are a lot of tower posts now, you should have seen the number 3 or 4 years ago when the hearings were taking place in Jeffco. Even then, I think someone in the group usually managed to answer nearly every question about reception that was posted.

That being said, I would give you this recommendation, as well as to any other lurkers out there. If you have questions, simply post them, I the group has always been extremely quick to answer questions and help. In addition, you are always welcome to PM anyone in the group who lives in your neighborhood to find out what they used to solve the issue. In the case of Westminster, unless you are on the north side of a large hill, or have a huge building blocking your 'view' of downtown, you should be able to get all of the channels with an outdoor or attic antenna. This condition should only last about another year (he said as he knocks on a piece of wood). Bear with the thread and feel free to ask questions. You will not be disappointed with the responses. Once again welcome to the thread.

Edited
PS
It looks like several others have also posted in response as well. I hope you get your questions answered.

John M
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post #638 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waiting4HDinCO View Post

I'd ask if I thought it would help my reception. I'm currently in an APT without a direct view of downtown.. so I'm stuck with an indoor antenna... and the realization that I'm stuck with that until we get a new tower working.

Why not just try an antenna like the Channel Master 3021 on your deck (if you have one) Our situation is not always line-of-site. Yes, they helps, but you might just be surprised at what you can get. We've had many guys report in odd directional setups.

And reception does go through buildings. For example, at my Fathers house in Arvada, I have a 3021 in his garage on the west side of his home. It's aimed SouthEast through the entire house to downtown and he gets acceptable reception. So, anything is possible!
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post #639 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

Why not just try an antenna like the Channel Master 3021 on your deck (if you have one) Our situation is not always line-of-site. Yes, they helps, but you might just be surprised at what you can get. We've had many guys report in odd directional setups.

And reception does go through buildings. For example, at my Fathers house in Arvada, I have a 3021 in his garage on the west side of his home. It's aimed SouthEast through the entire house to downtown and he gets acceptable reception. So, anything is possible!

I'll look into that antenna, thank you. I'm almost resigned to waiting another year though.
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post #640 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:41 PM
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Oh, don't forget our mantra here... "It's a game of inches."
Literally, if you move your antenna inches in any direction, it can dramatically change your reception.
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post #641 of 8485 Old 03-17-2007, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

Oh, don't forget our mantra here... "It's a game of inches."
Literally, if you move your antenna inches in any direction, it can dramatically change your reception.

Haha.. I've moved my indoor antenna probably 20+ times to see if
I could get 4, 7, 9 & 20.. (screw pbs.) But maybe a better antenna 2 ft away on my deck (outside) would get me NBC (which is what I really want right now.)
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post #642 of 8485 Old 03-18-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waiting4HDinCO View Post

I'd ask if I thought it would help my reception. I'm currently in an APT without a direct view of downtown.. so I'm stuck with an indoor antenna... and the realization that I'm stuck with that until we get a new tower working.

Fiesty little begger, eh?

Ernie's suggestion is a good one. But, let's step it up a notch:


Try the 'ol CM 4228, and if it doesn't improve things, you're probably SOL. No balcony? Just hang this puppy on a wall.

Oh, and I've never received WB2, so you think that you have it bad? They don't carry football, so it's not that big of a loss.
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post #643 of 8485 Old 03-18-2007, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TotallyPreWired View Post

No balcony? Just hang this puppy on a wall.

My sister in Atlanta had hers next to the TV for a while, still inside the box it was shipped in. Worked great that way!

Just so you know, the CM4228 is essentialy the same as having two of the CM3021 tied together. From Westminster, I would think the CM3021 should be enough.

My cable provider is Netflix
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post #644 of 8485 Old 03-18-2007, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by waltzonice View Post

Is anyone else having trouble receiving the KWGN-DT OTA signal? I live in Stapleton and have an indoor Zenith antenna. I was receiving the signal fine for about 6 months. Then around Dec 2006, the signal went away and I was never able to pick it up again. Every other channel comes in fine. Did something change with KWGN-DT?

Lest your post inadvertently slip completely through the cracks, just thought I'd mention that, yeah, my KWGN-DT reception has been a bit funky the last month or so. It's unlikely they made any changes with their DT transmission if it's only one or two viewers who are experiencing reception problems. I'll be doing some antenna experimentation later this evening to see what the 2.1 problem might be on my end.
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post #645 of 8485 Old 03-18-2007, 08:40 PM
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I don't watch KWGN very much except for once a week for Smallville, but I have not seen any changes in reception in ages.

John M
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post #646 of 8485 Old 03-18-2007, 11:03 PM
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I tried several times over the weekend to pick up KGWN - Cheyenne to see if they had different CBS coverage of March Madness. I haven't been able to receive their signal since they took down their low power transmitter a couple of weeks ago (as reported by TotallyPreWired). I'm wondering if they are still off the air, if their full power transmitter is not operating at full power yet, or I now just can't receive them due to some change in their signal pattern due to the new transmitter. Anyone else receiving KGWN?
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post #647 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyK View Post

Lest your post inadvertently slip completely through the cracks, just thought I'd mention that, yeah, my KWGN-DT reception has been a bit funky the last month or so. It's unlikely they made any changes with their DT transmission if it's only one or two viewers who are experiencing reception problems. I'll be doing some antenna experimentation later this evening to see what the 2.1 problem might be on my end.

Thanks TommyK for the response. It turns out that I can pick up KWGN-DT just fine. It's my TV that's been acting up... somehow it lost it's mapping from the actual channel 34 to virtual channel 2.1. I re-ran my "Program Channel" on the TV and it fixed the problem. Though now it won't map 38 to 12.1....
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post #648 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milehighmike View Post

I tried several times over the weekend to pick up KGWN - Cheyenne to see if they had different CBS coverage of March Madness. I haven't been able to receive their signal since they took down their low power transmitter a couple of weeks ago (as reported by TotallyPreWired). I'm wondering if they are still off the air, if their full power transmitter is not operating at full power yet, or I now just can't receive them due to some change in their signal pattern due to the new transmitter. Anyone else receiving KGWN?

Mike,
It's been loud and clear down here. KCNC was 'in and out' for me, so most of the 'Madness' that I watched was on KGWN. I just checked again(06:10 today) and it's still coming in fine, and is still my strongest signal.
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post #649 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 07:56 AM
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Maybe this will help any Newbie's or Lurkers.

If you suddenly lose channels, the first thing to do is try a Re-scan for OTA channels. Even though it's been pretty stable the last year or two, before that it was crazy. Most stations on a weekly basis were changing their mapping. Testing/adding sub-channels etc. It would drive our OTA receivers crazy. Even to the point of some receivers wouldn't lock and others would.

Anyway, just try re-scanning first.
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post #650 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 08:55 AM
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Anyone else have issues getting 12-01, 02 & 03 last night?

(Cross-posted) I noticed recently that my E* 811 which has always displayed programming info for OTA channels suddenly stopped a while ago, most likley removed it with the latest FW, thanks for nothing E*. I only get the "Digital Service" displayed in the PCIP now same as my 622. They also stopped my NY CBS-HD feed back a couple of months ago despite having a waiver due to some judge's ruling (most likley a friend of JJ?). They now suck equally with D* IMOHO.

I wrote E* and Charlie a letter explaining why after having been a customer for something like 7-8 years I dropped my Top 100 & other programming and am contemplating dropping them all together. Hell, Charlie even featured my dish setup on his show back a year or two ago.

I now only get the classic HD channels (DiscoveryHD, TNTHD, HDNET, ESPNHD, etc) and local OTA. The new HD packages are just ridiculously expensive AFAIC. My last E* bill was $4.99.

Anyone know of any HD-DVRs (non D* or E* ) that display OTA PCIP info? It's tough to set recordings without programming info. I hope this doesn't mean I will have to go back to using a paper TV Guide in 2007 no less! What are the non Comcast/E*/D* members here using?

Sorry for being a bit grouchy, but I just found out that my pups have been eating that recalled dog food every morning for about the last month so I'm a tad concerned.
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post #651 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetlag View Post

Anyone else have issues getting 12-01, 02 & 03 last night?

I've been having issues with 12-x since Friday (at least - I haven't paid them much attention since sCAREy Al's tests from Squaw). My receiver shows 80-90% signal strength on all 3 channels, but no picture. I haven't posted about it, because I've been waiting to see if a channel scan will fix the problem.

So why did I notice it hasn't worked for me since Friday?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetlag View Post

Anyone know of any HD-DVRs (non D* or E* ) that display OTA PCIP info? It's tough to set recordings without programming info. I hope this doesn't mean I will have to go back to using a paper TV Guide in 2007 no less! What are the non Comcast/E*/D* members here using?

I finally bit the bullet, picked up a Series 3 TiVo on Friday, and cancelled my D* service. 6 1/2 years with the big D, but between neutering the TiVo hardware they had already deployed, moving forward with a (my opinion) sub-quality DVR as their in-house solution, requiring people to subscribe to more SD channels to be able to qualify to get their HD-lite channels, jacking fees up yet again, etc, etc...I'm done with paying for TV for awhile. In 10 months, the TiVo will have paid for itself. I'm now fully dependent on local OTA broadcasts for TV. Feels kind of good to dump that $78/month bill.

Jetlag - I don't think it uses PSIP data, and it will require you to subscribe for 1-3 years at 12.95-16.95/month, but the Series 3 TiVo is a great HD DVR for OTA use. And it's got 2 CableCard slots if you decide to subscribe to Comcast.
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Originally Posted by Jetlag View Post

Sorry for being a bit grouchy, but I just found out that my pups have been eating that recalled dog food every morning for about the last month so I'm a tad concerned.

Sorry to hear that - hopefully the pooches will be OK.

You are indeed a wise man! - TotallyPreWired
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post #652 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 09:30 AM
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I heard that sCARE is sending out a mailer begging for money. Anybody get one? (I'm not on their mailing list anymore - go figure?) They are grovelling to their Kool-aid drinkers to fund a 10th Amendment fight. They need (Are you sitting down) $450,000. !!!!!!!

You'd have to be a complete idiot to send them ten's of thousands of your hard earned savings to fight this ridiculous fight. Just curious if any of the sCARE board are going to take 2nd mortages out on their Lookout mansions!

------------

Same here, Jet, I hope your little guys are OK.
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post #653 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 10:07 AM
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They need (Are you sitting down) $450,000. !!!!!!!

ROTFLMFAO!!! In the immortal words of Chris Rock (as Nat X) "Good lord that's a lot of money! How about I give you $2.80 and you give me your RF infested house!"

It figures they would try to fight this. In their minds if they win, the property value increases will offset the price of the court costs.

Or, the money is going toward the Deb Carney retirement fund.

-Matt
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post #654 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 12:03 PM
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It's more likely the latter.

Somebody needs to sue that b!tch for misappropriations of funds or something! She's no better than the proverbial guy that tries to sell you swamp land in Florida!
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post #655 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

Maybe this will help any Newbie's or Lurkers.

If you suddenly lose channels, the first thing to do is try a Re-scan for OTA channels. Even though it's been pretty stable the last year or two, before that it was crazy. Most stations on a weekly basis were changing their mapping. Testing/adding sub-channels etc. It would drive our OTA receivers crazy. Even to the point of some receivers wouldn't lock and others would.

Anyway, just try re-scanning first.

Re-scan worked for me to fix KWGN (mapping from 34 to 2-1). But this broke the mapping for 38 to 12-1! Luckily, my TV has 2 antenna inputs. At one point I had tried both inputs and had done a scan on both. I went ahead and moved the antenna to the other input without scanning and everything is working right now -- including the mapping of 38 to 12-1. I'm not sure why a scan would mess this up, when the station is clearly there and working.
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post #656 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santellavision View Post

I heard that sCARE is sending out a mailer begging for money. Anybody get one? (I'm not on their mailing list anymore - go figure?) They are grovelling to their Kool-aid drinkers to fund a 10th Amendment fight. They need (Are you sitting down) $450,000. !!!!!!!

At this point the county has approved the zoning change again. If the Supreme Court were to grant review of the case (which I doubt), the arguments would be years away and the opinion even later. By then the tower should be up and broadcasting, and unless Congress extends the analog shutoff again, DTV will be the only TV eminating from lookout mountain. The entire question will be moot.
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post #657 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 12:36 PM
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Evidently fighting towers on Lookout is a way of life for some. From my perspective scare officials pretty much suffer from a complete lack of ethics so I wonder what they'll be saying about their chances of winning this 10th amendment fight. I wouldn't be surprised if they raise enough funds to continue but I wonder when their audience will figure out they've spent more money funding scare than what they would have made on increased property values if the towers were removed.

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post #658 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by HDJello View Post

At this point the county has approved the zoning change again. If the Supreme Court were to grant review of the case (which I doubt), the arguments would be years away and the opinion even later. By then the tower should be up and broadcasting, and unless Congress extends the analog shutoff again, DTV will be the only TV eminating from lookout mountain. The entire question will be moot.

Perhaps they can convince a Federal judge to issue an injunction while the 10th Amendment case is being decided. I don't believe sCare can win the case because the Act was passed to enforce the Congressional DTV mandate.

Additionally, it was not sCare that had it's local authority usurped; it was Jefferson County. So, shouldn't the legal challenge be mounted by the county? Does sCare, a private organization, have a basis for legal action based on the 10th Amendment?
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post #659 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 03:34 PM
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post #660 of 8485 Old 03-19-2007, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltzonice View Post

Thanks TommyK for the response. It turns out that I can pick up KWGN-DT just fine. It's my TV that's been acting up... somehow it lost it's mapping from the actual channel 34 to virtual channel 2.1. I re-ran my "Program Channel" on the TV and it fixed the problem. Though now it won't map 38 to 12.1....

I've also got KWGN-DT back. All it took was a 2.5 inch antenna adjustment and it popped right back... the Game Of Inches routine.
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